TERA Online forum archive
Posts by clfarron4
Thuking wrote: »
canikizu wrote: »
EarsUp wrote: »
The real question is when new patch arrives and Heroic gear requires 244plate each attempt to upgrade to, where will the talent prices fly to
Heroic gear requires untradable, unbankable mats, and give you a stupidly low chance to successfully enchant. By the time you have enough new mats to enchant, Gold Talents will be your least of the problems. The bottleneck won't be gold talents.

The reason gold talents is rising right now because people are stocking up, and RRHM is too easy to clear, so people are able to get their essense andd gear pass +7 easier. It's a typical gear wrap-up phrase at the end of every gear patch where untradable mats are made avaiable easier.

That is not the reason gold talents are rising, I play on both EU and NA and can see the difference in price. If people are hoarding them then why is the EU price of gold talents still low.

EU can earn talents at a much faster rate that NA can. And that is ignoring the cash shop completely.

1) EU has a guaranteed drop of a Keening Dawn Mote for killing ANY IoD BAM. This means that given two players of equal skill and gear on NA and EU, the EU player will clear much faster because of Keening Dawn Motes.
2) Elleon's Mark of Valor. These are a dungeon drop, originally EU's solution to the Semi Enigmatic problem. You can get 60 Talents for 40 Tokens and 150 Talents for 100 Tokens.

Assuming the rates of Elleon's Marks are still the same as stated here, if you're not farming your 113 IoD Golden Talents per character per day at a rate faster than NA, you're able to get Talents through dungeons (potentially up to 360 Golden Talents per character per day).

====

Here are some possibilities for some Vanguard Boxes that drop talents, assuming that you only play one character.

eGqiE9d.png
RandomElin wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »
RandomElin wrote: »
I currently don't believe EMEs xigncode version is a rootkit. It does sound like it may be touching things it really shouldn't be in the name of anti-cheat, though. This is why I wonder if it would be possible to box it in to a regular non-admin account. Doing so may solve some of the stability problems since the host system would be better protected from it than if it was running as admin.

Can anyone confirm whether or not xigncode needs to be running as admin on a windows system?

It's a kernel level inject, so it automatically has administrative rights.

I thought it has been pretty much confirmed that that wasn't the case for EME's xigncode, though. Does anyone have info on this in regard to EME's version? I thought it was pretty much self contained to the game directory install wise and not mucking around with the kernel.

Look for C:\Windows\xhunter1.sys...

And look on the forums. There are a few threads of people complaining about the TERA.exe process mashing through disks on which the TERA installation isn't on.
RandomElin wrote: »
I currently don't believe EMEs xigncode version is a rootkit. It does sound like it may be touching things it really shouldn't be in the name of anti-cheat, though. This is why I wonder if it would be possible to box it in to a regular non-admin account. Doing so may solve some of the stability problems since the host system would be better protected from it than if it was running as admin.

Can anyone confirm whether or not xigncode needs to be running as admin on a windows system?

It's a kernel level inject, so it automatically has administrative rights.

ElinUsagi wrote: »
nah, forget it, is is just paranoia

EU laws have not enforced anygame that use Xigncode over there to be removed from their games.
clfarron4 wrote: »
You can find this comment in an unofficial TERA Discord if you wish to view it yourself.

Don't you mean "No-one has yet enforced the EU laws in such a way that companies have to remove Xigncode from their games"?

Also, since Xigncode being put into the NA build came after 26th May, you're looking at putting something in, not removing it.
This is a Gameforge EU staff member commenting on Xigncode and TERA EU:

GF_Employee_on_Xigncode.PNG

You can find this comment in an unofficial TERA Discord if you wish to view it yourself.
RandomElin wrote: »
Doesn't steam require much larger downloads for updating TERA? Seems I recall reading that somewhere.

Yes, Steam versions of TERA require considerably larger downloads than standard TERA patches. You need to download:
1) everything from whenever EME update the Steam version of the patch for Steam through Steam.
2) the latest patch again through the EME launcher

Basically means that every major path is downloaded 3 times and each intermediary patch is downloaded twice.
The real potential exodus is not actually people moving away from TERA, what is actually happening as a result of xigncode3 is that people are moving away from unmodified tera to use "cheats" that actually.. run the game more smoothly, with less hassle, and less bugs..

This exodus to third party programs you speak of already started when someone attributed TERA to a malware risk back in November last year with the chat bug and EME took the BHS stance of "it hasn't been evidenced on NA, therefore it's not a problem".

It wouldn't surprise me, given how the Xigncode3 story broke, if there is currently another exodus going on right now to the third party programs that EME are trying to stop people using, since people attributed TERA to installing rootkits. And people are general computer security advice puts rootkits in the same category as viruses. And when people think computer viruses, all hell breaks loose.
KitTeaCup wrote: »
Hi everyone,

I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to get you a response to the initial topic for this thread... which is... as I see it... why XIGNCODE. I get it. It sucks. But cheating sucks more. No cheating fix is perfect, but we felt like we had to do something about it, and Wellbia, who are a reputable company who have been working on solving this sort of issue for numerous games (including TERA in other regions) was the best partner that we could find.

I totally understand the desire that BHS and EME would have for implementing some sort of anti-cheat system. The last two years has been pretty rough for NA TERA in relation to family of third party programs.

Here's the problem: Xigncode has been implemented by Nexon (Korea) and pmang (Japan) in their TERA builds for a couple of years now. In that time:

- Xigncode failed to stop the usage of DPS meters. Literally, if you have a KTERA account, you could start up the most popular DPS meter for TERA and it will run perfectly fine. [1]

[1] As an educational side story, DPS meters are actually allowed under the ToS for KTERA. This happened after Nexon and BHS said that they were going to ban players that were using them, which resulted in a nasty backlash of the "lots of players actually stopped playing" kind. The ToS was subsequently re-written to allow DPS meters (and third party softwares, as long as the way it was used wasn't considered cheating).

- As has been mentioned in this thread, Xigncode is stupidly easy to bypass. Said DPS meter is actually a good example here.

But for others, Google is your friend here. And that's assuming that the game actually installed Xigncode onto your machine in the first place. There are comments by a few people that TERA never actually installed Xigncode on the machine it was running on (though that may be down to the borked patch process that happened).
KitTeaCup wrote: »
We’re just trying to ensure that all battlegrounds and epic quests take place on a figurative level field.

- Xigncode never stopped the cheating enabled by the exploits that we have seen over the last two years on NA. How do we know this? They have been used on KTERA and action against cheaters was only taken after the community managed to prove that cheating was occurring.

One such example was the Valkyrie Dreamslash exploit. This appears to have been considered by BHS and Nexon a problem that didn't exist on KTERA until the Battleground leaderboards were re-introduced, where a Valkyrie that was known to be pretty bad at the game was sitting at the top of the PvP leaderboards for BGs. It was only at that point where it was proven to be an issue in KTERA when they actually started to code in proper fixes for it
Just to ping in: TERA EU just did a name wipe on one of their busier servers.
STORM33 wrote: »
That was a quote from MistyTera, and I am glad she mentioned it

FWIW, though, you don't have turn off Windows Defender or other anti-virus software for this to work, and it only flags rather than do anything to any files it finds, so I'm truly not too sure what they mean.

Except that this has absolutely been the case in other games and other security software:

https://old.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/42yy1c/xigncode_error_0xe019101a_bd_kr/

What they mean is they can't log in until they remove or disable their security software. GREAT ANTI CHEAT, RIGHT GUYS? JUST TURN OFF YOUR ANTI VIRUS.

Didn't Windows Defender stop TERA running for a load of people sometime early last year?
HeyTeacher wrote: »
Yordan wrote: »
HeyTeacher wrote: »
Yordan wrote: »
HeyTeacher wrote: »
omg, finally some justice! ty once again EME for taking care of these obnoxious hackers/cheaters from their 3rd party tools. now hopefully they won't abuse that stupid TERA proxy or be elitist with the dps meter ever again. goodbye cheaters, justice has been served to them! =)

I hate to break your bubble but it won't stop anything.

yeah and let the cheaters continue to cheat on with their proxies because they're horrible at the game and can't play the game correctly? okay buddy

I see you are completely missing point of anyone who is against this particular solution that solves nothing.

but you're not giving this new anti-cheat a chance. let's just wait and see what happens. if someone does continue on to cheat and if you somehow manage to find them doing it ingame, then there's always a submitting in a ticket to report them. the accounts that were caught using the 3rd party cheat tools should remain permanently banned forever. so it will only be them wasting their times making another 65 account just to cheat and get permanently banned again :) as for the gold sellers, hopefully we won't see them again with whatever tool they use to continuously spam their messages.

We don't need to give the so-called "anti-cheat" a chance to try and detect it. KTERA and JTERA have had Xigncode in their builds for a while now and it didn't stop the cheating that was enabled by the Valkyrie Dreamslash exploit.

There is further reason to believe that it contributed nothing to actually identifying the exploit. That exploit was seen as an NA only problem by BHS until Battleground league tables came back in KTERA and a Valkyrie known to be very bad was sitting at the top of the BG rankings.
GKWXJGDXPL wrote: »
Let's just sum up the main points that we know to be true (please reply if any of the following are inaccurate):

Xigncode3 is an attempt to stop cheating.

Pros:
  • - It makes a slightly harder for people to cheat (see bypass)
.

It never stopped the Valkyrie Dreamslash exploit. This is evidenced since KTERA have used Xigncode for a couple of years now and people were using the exploit anyways.

Probably would not have stopped the Chat Bug. Probably wouldn't have stopped other exploits either.
Vasy86le wrote: »
So, when we have this patch?
Capture.jpg

All Regions outside of Korea got the so-called "Proxy Prevention" Patch the week after that happened in KTERA. Unofficially, it's the fix for the Valkyrie Dreamslash exploit, so projectile skills can only apply damage once per hit, officially stated as this

af2d24b7a2.png

So, it's already been implemented.

PS: Since EME redid their entire website, the original source for the patch notes has gone.
[Oops Double Post]
Meningitis wrote: »
Partyblast wrote: »
Unfortunately EmE has proven they lack the ability to properly communicate and perhaps don't even completely understand what they're even trying to actively prevent. They've had plenty of opportunities to work with the general community, as well as the modding, meter and proxy community, but have refused and just released a blanket statement and ignored everything else.

Now both BHS and EmE have decided to continue to implement a performance harming and near completely useless thing onto an already injured and poor performance game, and most likely would've done so without notification had there not been a leak or anyone actively looking at incoming patches.

I had actually been looking forward to this patch, even if it only lasted a month like most patches due to how interesting I find AAHM, but now I'm most likely not going to even bother opening the game, which also means not re-applying my elite.

I actually feel really bad for the set of players who don't pay attention to forums and aren't a part of the modding community since they won't be informed and won't have a way to prevent themselves from being harmed by this.
In the case of the fiasco patch notes they released a while ago, I don't even recall them actually fully fixing the bizarre amounts of misinformation or releasing a blanket statement about how they fumbled with it. None. At all.

We are now into June and there are still errors in the Apex Patch Notes for both Warriors and Priests.
Meningitis wrote: »
Partyblast wrote: »
Unfortunately EmE has proven they lack the ability to properly communicate and perhaps don't even completely understand what they're even trying to actively prevent. They've had plenty of opportunities to work with the general community, as well as the modding, meter and proxy community, but have refused and just released a blanket statement and ignored everything else.

Now both BHS and EmE have decided to continue to implement a performance harming and near completely useless thing onto an already injured and poor performance game, and most likely would've done so without notification had there not been a leak or anyone actively looking at incoming patches.

I had actually been looking forward to this patch, even if it only lasted a month like most patches due to how interesting I find AAHM, but now I'm most likely not going to even bother opening the game, which also means not re-applying my elite.

I actually feel really bad for the set of players who don't pay attention to forums and aren't a part of the modding community since they won't be informed and won't have a way to prevent themselves from being harmed by this.

What I find most astounding is that EME didn't even have the sense to post a statement about the new Xigncode3 implementation until everyone started panicking about the possibility of it coming with the patch. That alone shows the amount of disrespect EME has for it's customers.

This is the thing. This whole Xigncode thing came from someone not affiliated to EME and was made known whilst all the staff were out of the office.
DeusFurta wrote: »
Fulzoid wrote: »
DeusFurta wrote: »
I was following reports of several exploits over the past month or so and I was wondering why those involved weren't being banned and the exploits quickly patched. I really hope that Enmasse doesn't think this is a blanket fix for all exploits in TERA...


Exploits? what you talking about. Tera is bug free and perfectly well optimized. It also have no actual reason to announce that they'll use some malwar... I mean very nice new system that will overclock your CPU!
:^)

Well lets at least hope there aren't a ton of false positives getting ppl banned like in PUBG.
Already had half my guild banned from people photoshopping proxy windows and dps meters into their streams...

You would have thought EME would have realised something was up when they unbanned players after realising the so-called evidence was fake...
Goosey wrote: »
To even play this game now, you'd basically need a burner PC that just runs TERA and nothing else, because once you have this installed your PC, it will be compromised and will not be safe to do anything You won't be safe to read emails, log into any websites, nothing. Everything you do will be captured and logged, and any valuable information will be exploited against you.
Is there actually any substantiated evidence to support this claim? This software is used actively by other major Korean MMOs, including BDO and BnS, all EME's other games, and TERA in Korea and Japan. Is there any evidence that anyone's computers been compromised in this way? If there's any evidence of anything like this actually happening, all these companies need to know so they can sue the hell out of Wellbia for the liability they imposed.

I don't think proof of it happening is the point here - The point is that EME, a company who is fairly well known for being inept and lying to their customers both intentionally and unintentionally, has just asked every single TERA player to install a keylogger and file system scanner on their own computer, to send our data to a third party. Not only that, but all the evidence points to this malware not even working for it's intended function. So, basically EME is just asking us to send *everything* we do on our computers for 48 hours before playing tera to a third party for NO reason whatsoever. That's the problem people have with this change.

That's also not true, though. It's not a keylogger. It does not "send *everything* we do on our computers for 48 hours before playing tera to a third party" at all. It scans the files and hashes them to scan against known signatures, like how an anti-virus works. Yeah, even that is more invasive than I'd like, but it's not the same thing.

I'm not a fan of this software, and I do think it's pointless as long as it's completely ineffectual at its supposed function (I wouldn't have introduced it until I was sure it actually solved a problem that needed solving, if it were up to me), but the FUD about what it does is just so completely through the roof that I have no idea where people are getting it from. I don't think it's necessary to lie and exaggerate about what the software does to convince EME that it's a bad idea, because EME already knows these lies and exaggerations aren't true anyway, and are just FUD. It hurts the argument people are trying to make! I've no problem if an army of people come on to say they don't want to install it, they don't trust it, they don't think it'll work, on and on and on; there's plenty to choose from.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DFO/comments/30tcb6/xigncode_looks_at_all_files_youve_accessed_in_the/

http://i.imgur.com/zOEDkVa.png

DFO a game with XignCode bundled with it. Why does it need to scan files in your Firefox Profile data?
Magraal wrote: »
RKC wrote: »
I dont get it. What is this about?

Drama. People are starting and throwing around unconfirmed rumours just to stir up trouble for their own amusement. Until there is an official announcement from EME (this is a publisher-side inclusion, not something BHS is directly responsible for), I count it unlikely to occur.

It appears that users may be able to prove or disprove the claims irrespective of what EME says.

Now to wait and see what EME does.
Looks like it's time to pull these out again:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DFO/comments/30tcb6/xigncode_looks_at_all_files_youve_accessed_in_the/

http://i.imgur.com/zOEDkVa.png

Now, why would a game client be accessing those files in that screenshot? A game doesn't need to know about your Firefox Profile, but it's reading it because of XignCode.
I think more the game is broken. I mean, you can fail enchants with 100% success rate.
HLK76PFWXT wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »

Check your patch notes. It's 20% flat buff (effectively 14%) on release of awakening.

That gets buffed by 1.5x to 30% (or effective 20%) afterwards.

Can you give more info? I am pretty sure that i have checked all the up coming patch notes and did not see anything about this.

Initially it was 20% flat damage buff that worked out at 14% effective, because it's additive to the % weapon modifiers you get on the weapon.

The maths, if you're interested is
1.13937282 = (1 + 0.093 + 0.093 + 0.12 + 0.069 + 0.06 + 0.2) / (1 + 0.093 + 0.093 + 0.12 + 0.069 + 0.06)

In the recent patch notes where Sorc and Gunner get buffed in KTERA (supposed to be part of the now scrapped Talismans update), they said they were increasing the strength of the passive by 1.5x.

This changes the maths to
1.20905923 = (1 + 0.093 + 0.093 + 0.12 + 0.069 + 0.06 + 0.3) / (1 + 0.093 + 0.093 + 0.12 + 0.069 + 0.06)
We'll ignore the 10 character thing.

Tempest Reach or Fey Forest if you're starting out.
The new Dreadspire that KR just got:

Akasha || 3,700,000,000 HP,
Kaprima || 5,400,000,000 HP,
The Imperator || 5,000,000,000 HP,
Meldita || 5,400,000,000 HP,
Kelsaik || 6,300,000,000 HP,
Krakatox || 10,800,000,000 HP,
Lakan || 7,100,000,000 HP,
Desolarus || 7,800,000,000 HP,
Dakan || 7,600,000,000 HP
Shandra Manaya || 8,900,000,000 HP

Who wants to place bets that those HP values will remain the same or close to the same when/if this version of Dreadspire comes Westward?

Remember guys, BHS said they don't balance around talents. :^)

They can't even get past Floor 3, from the streams going around. And Kaprima is nion-impossible as is.

14.83M/s party DPS required to clear Krakatox in 10 minutes. And that's just to make a 10 minute timer.

And all the bosses have new mechs. And don't forget Manaya, where your DPS output goes down.

And knowing how updates are pushed to us, we will have to take down the same amount of HP, same mechs and everything. And I'm not sure whether even the top players on NA could make it without Talents.
NikuroTega wrote: »
CornishRex wrote: »
DWDE6GFGWH wrote: »
The new Dreadspire that KR just got:

Akasha || 3,700,000,000 HP,
Kaprima || 5,400,000,000 HP,
The Imperator || 5,000,000,000 HP,
Meldita || 5,400,000,000 HP,
Kelsaik || 6,300,000,000 HP,
Krakatox || 10,800,000,000 HP,
Lakan || 7,100,000,000 HP,
Desolarus || 7,800,000,000 HP,
Dakan || 7,600,000,000 HP
Shandra Manaya || 8,900,000,000 HP

Who wants to place bets that those HP values will remain the same or close to the same when/if this version of Dreadspire comes Westward?

Remember guys, BHS said they don't balance around talents. :^)

Will we even be able to clear that.. Krakatox 10.8B HP, shandra 8.9B HP. Nightmare lachelith has around 3.5B HP right now and takes around 7-9 mins average to clear. I'm going to be even more worried for the future of this game, unlucky that none of the devs play endgame themselves to realize this huge problem.

Remember that awakening is coming and all the non awakened classes are getting buffed too but... The buff will be around 20%?

The dormant power buff is 1.5x damage to monsters.

Check your patch notes. It's 20% flat buff (effectively 14%) on release of awakening.

That gets buffed by 1.5x to 30% (or effective 20%) afterwards.
There's some pretty interesting discussion coming out of the closed thread about talents, presenting actually gathered data, showing the difference between Talents vs no Talents. The data is actually publically available for you to do your own numbers on.

And then there's the point that the client files required for end users to interact with the Talent System are shipped with the build (the client also includes many unused files that would have been removed by any other developer).

I get the original reasoning behind not releasing it (which was that it was broken, and it was), but those issues have been fixed now, so I'd be interested to see what the reasoning behind not releasing Talents when the game is clearly balanced on them is.
Any more word on the possibility of Talents being reconsidered or replacement buffs?

EU are about to implement a player buff for RMHM. The specific part is this:

unknown.png

Amusingly enough, this corresponds with the following Talents from KTERA that are accessible to all classes:
Ketoth wrote: »
ALL CLASSES - points included on classes breakdown
  • Increase power by 23 - 80 points
  • Increase Endurance by 23 - 70 points

I believe this has been done in recognition that dungeons are balanced around the KTERA Talent System, as I don't see any other reason why this would be implemented by Gameforge.
So... Kelsaik Extreme Mode is a thing on EU. When are we getting it?
I'm not sure how many times I've had to quote myself on this, but it's enough for me to wish that an official written statement in a news post explaining the entire situation around vanguards should be made, from why the decision was made, what did you consider when making the decision to what that means for players. @seandynamite

I documented 28 days ago just exactly what each vanguard rewards means as a statement of fact to help people understand the situation and I am pretty sure that I have linked it in excess of 50 times already. This is something that EME staff should have already done.

On to the point of the OP, there has been plenty of discussion already around what should be done in terms of VGs. Amazingly enough, I believe that the two mostly supported suggestions were:

1) just leave it the "double" date event on, and never run an event the involves the tweaking of the Vanguard rewards, because everyone liked it; or
2) make Keening Dawn Motes drop at 100% rate for BAM killing, like they do on EU, to speed up IoD quests to make up for the poor rate.

It doesn't appear that EME have chosen to implement either, nor does it appear they have the time or resources to do so with how much they have to do with other stuff.

Personally, I would support either of the two suggestions, with the first being preferred, but not much we can do against a brick wall.
I think the Ninja change could be better worded.

Burning Heart can now only hit once per activation, but each hit causes triple damage.
RMNM is in no way scaled for Frostmetal tanks. It's literally a dodge fiesta, because you take 40k+ through blocks on stuff that you could block perfectly fine in the mid tier gear when RMHM first came out.

And yeah, the first two bosses in RMNM have 2.3B+ HP each. Like, the last time we had that much HP on a boss for the equivalent item level was DFHM revamp, and Verno is a stationary tree.
- EME almost never gives information about patches prior to one week, sometimes not even 24 hours before. This is partly due to what BHS sends them, and partly due to, well, they're understaffed.

There's a screenshot somewhere of seandynamite saying it was in April. And this would tie in with the one month between Male Brawler release and Awakening Release. I'd guess latter half of April.
- Zerk/Slayer/War are top DPS, every other class received a ~17% dps buff on all skills. Lancer apparently out dps'd some classes (lol.)

Amusingly enough, the DPS rankings that were achieved while the Awakening system was still on the test server should be pretty close to what we'll get on NA because the test server people only got 30 Talent points on there (and the number of points required to see the crazy stuff that they have in Korea is like 350, ground over the course of 3 years).

The real funny bit was setting Priests out-DPSing Awakened Lancers.

ovr wrote: »
Gatokatzen wrote: »
Also add, make healer unable to lead the party, when you queque for a battleground, with a healer, it doesnt matter you always got the lead. And made you a kick victim, if dont propose a plan or just for trolling.

You gave me an idea! What do you think of a system where the team leader doesn't even participate in the fight? Instead they are un-attackable, and unable to attack others. They could focus on leading and strategy instead of trying to fight and lead at the same time. I think it would be cool! Maybe adding an option for people to q as a team lead could be added, too.

The problem with any system is that, sadly, it's going to get massively abused by certain guilds to up their Battleground rankings, and by adding a reward for being leader, you're adding an easy incentive which can be abused. And anyone that has played long enough will know that it's going to be abused from past experience.
Gatokatzen wrote: »
Also add, make healer unable to lead the party, when you queque for a battleground, with a healer, it doesnt matter you always got the lead. And made you a kick victim, if dont propose a plan or just for trolling.

The healer bit I agree with, because it is hard (not impossible) to heal and lead at the same time.

Set Bonuses from old gear have already been removed from the gear in JTERA, and have been announced by Gameforge as being removed with Male Brawler/RMHM release.

Yes, that affects the "Trap" jewellery set. Yes, it affects the power bonus on old Deathwrack/Oblit/Ambush/Behemoth and everything else.

Are we getting the same thing?
ElinLove wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »
^ Case in point: The Koreans were meming these two Sorc Talismans pretty hard

1) [All Skills] Increase Cooldowns on all skills by 85%, but on successful hits decrease cooldown by 0.1 seconds
2) [Hailstorm] On successful cast, enable re-cast of this skill within 3 seconds, but increase cooldown by 53%

Rocket fueling rotations by reducing cooldowns, because why not.

====

In any event, you were looking at 300 million + gold to grind to get to a decent set of top tier talismans. And they might not even have been the ones you wanted.

no no hang on, was that a REAL idea, those two talismans? Or was it the community who invented them as a meme to troll the talisman thing?

I mean, I don't know what goes on about BHS anymore so I can't discern sarcasm/irony from real posts anymore

Actually real. See the Sorcerer tab of the translated list by Idi0ticGenius.
^ Case in point: The Koreans were meming these two Sorc Talismans pretty hard

1) [All Skills] Increase Cooldowns on all skills by 85%, but on successful hits decrease cooldown by 0.1 seconds
2) [Hailstorm] On successful cast, enable re-cast of this skill within 3 seconds, but increase cooldown by 53%

Rocket fueling rotations by reducing cooldowns, because why not.

====

In any event, you were looking at 300 million + gold to grind to get to a decent set of top tier talismans. And they might not even have been the ones you wanted.
HLK76PFWXT wrote: »
Ponilover wrote: »
you haven't seen that abomination yet
male brawler is just a cheap animation copypaste of the female version, including the dying posture

So it is a female on the inside? Is this some kind of plastic surgery? XD

Male Brawler uses the exact same animations as Female Brawler. Right down to the death animation as well.
Some of the world bam locations were changed to be not-PvP zones. Ask BHS why it happened, because they would have made the change, not EME.
metagame wrote: »
It is moderately hard to get gold, it is extremely hard to get silver.
a p4 clear alone rewards you with stuff to dismantle for 1560 entropic emblems, enough to buy 52 silver talents. a full hh clear takes about 30-45 mins with a geared, exped raid, while being closer to 1-1.5+ hours with something less

when many players (probably including you) are willing to substitute keylock/keytrap rings+neck for the rest of entropic, u do not need full entropic on every one of your characters

not to mention in a previous post u claimed it was more efficient to farm gold to buy talents, so just do that
whats the issue
gold from vgs have not changed

It sounds like you do not play on MT. It is actually more efficient on MT to farm Talents than it is to farm the gold to buy them because of what happened with the cash shop event (basically, someone bought every single Talent on the server broker and relisted the whole lot at maximum stacks). The issue is that the supply of Talents has dried up because people do not want to farm talents because of the VGs being set at base rates.
I'd like to clear this up though - back in October I said we would commit to adding these to the product roadmap and accomplishing them. I did NOT give a solid timeline nor did I say they'd all be done in the next couple months. So it's been 4 months - we removed Fed bills and moved all the items to another shop because it was yet ANOTHER currency that had no intent or meaning behind it; we are finalizing what may be the first of a few updates to Fashion Coupon shop for today/tomorrow/Wednesday (not sure which day - all based on prioritized workload for our small team).

I understand it feels like an eternity and I can't speak for what happened from prior Product Managers or CMs, but THIS TEAM is working hard on it (and especially @CobaltDragon - he will be hailed as a hero when this is done).

I just wanted to give that update as well. My attempt at being transparent about what we are working on and what we plan on working on is backfiring in that there is an entitled expectation that this is ALL we are working on, which obviously couldn't be further from the truth. Regardless of what tools it takes to do it and how fast it is to enter the items (which, btw, is a horribly manual process - don't for a second think it's "easy" to do, even if it doesn't require a build).

Assumptions about how "easy" or "difficult" a task can be is based PURELY ON SPECULATION. Unless you have worked at EME and used the tools we use and walked a mile in our shoes, you probably shouldn't make assessments about how long something takes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again,

Patience, young padawans. All will be OK.

I think that most people would agree with what I am about to say.

If, once the male brawler is released, all the TERA team did was work on the fashion coupon updates, ace dungeon store updates and vanguard store updates from March until June (or the next major patch) and turned on Double Vanguard Rewards as the only event during that period, I think a lot of people would be very happy because you would be delivering things that the playerbase have been asking the TERA team to deliver for a long time.

I accept that it might seem boring from an events perspective. I accept it might seem boring from a news perspective. I accept that the powers at be might see my proposal as boring. But, the team would be seen as legends at this point after everything that has gone down over the last year or so.

It's like BHS with the Talismans system in KTERA right now. They literally could have said to the KTERA playerbase that all they were going to do from now until July is optimise the game, and people would have called them legends because it's been 6 years of asking.
So much can only be seen once the test server goes live. Once that happens, we'll be able to see how they can implemented it instead of how they said they implemented it
Piltover wrote: »
Feels like enmasse is trying to cash out before this game dies

I have felt this way since last may. I hope it isn't true, but....

Talismans isn't helping in KTERA

Just look at the KTERA playerbase. They are quitting over this, even with the clarifications made and people reasoning why things may be not as bad as people thought.
Manifest is the only guild on MT. Anyone that says anything else is a meme.
Well, the files required to interact with the Talent System are shipped in the build we get and are already translated. Yes, if you are a little curious, you can get the menus to appear in the game.

So I don't see why it cannot be turned on.

And in case you want to read Ketoth's post: https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/21039/awakening-patch-class-balance-talents-and-you
If anyone is willing to give somewhat of a finalized suggestion post to BHS to me, i can post it on Nexon forums for you guys .. other regions definitely should be able to express their opinions on this matter as well.

@CobaltDragon, you might want to consider submitting this feedback officially as well as @seraphinush sending it through the KTERA forums.

1) One of the things that needs to be done before placing a massive system that affects how the skills work of all of the classes is the Awakening of the 6 classes that were left out of Phase 1 of Awakening that they said they were leaving to a later date. This means the Awakening of the Ninja, Reaper, Sorcerer, Gunner, Archer and Valkyrie. This would level the field between the Awakened and not-Awakened classes.

2) Sort out the discrepancy between KTERA and the other regions caused by the Talent System. As we have seen in recent KTERA patches, BHS are struggling to sensibly balance the game because buffs/nerfs/status quo decisions that make sense with the Talent System often have the opposite (and often very negative effect) without it. There are 3 ways out of this that I can see as viable. Either:
2a) Enable the Talent System on all regions and recompense the number of points missed out (300 for each character is a good figure); or
2b) Implement Passives to make up for the Talent System, with @Ketoth making a very good suggestion; or
2c) Turn off the Talent System in Korea and balance the game without Talents.

These two things need to happen just to level out differences both inside the TERA primary market (Korea) and level out the differences between the core TERA market and other TERA regions.

Now, as for the Talismans system itself, in the absence of any other proposals, I think the proposal that I opened this thread with is one that would acceptable to the current playerbase, whilst allowing BHS to introduce the mechanic of players being able to use multiple class specific skill lines. That is:

Keep the gear rolls on the gear as it has been for years, and use Talismans to introduce a wider range of class specific effects.
Nibellung wrote: »
i think people didnt read or didnt pay atention in the develover note, people lvl 65 will receive talisman with rolls we already used. Dgs will reward us with better talismans depending on ilvl

For healers, you have a case, because the standard Talismans made to replace the gear rolls include the Triple CDR that is essential for any healer.

For DPS and Tanks, I disagree. It is generally accepted that before you apply any attack speed rolls on any gear, you have to have one CDR roll to rotate properly (for Warrior Tanks that is two CDR rolls because of block cancelling). For any attack speed rolls used, you then need a corresponding CDR roll to counteract the Attack Speed, which is not covered at all, meaning that you have to grind to get back the additional CDR you need because there is an attack speed roll in the default Talismans.

This completely ignores the point that you'll start with nerfed versions of the stats if rolled out as presented.
ElinLove wrote: »
Nibellung wrote: »
i think people didnt read or didnt pay atention in the develover note, people lvl 65 will receive talisman with rolls we already used with it. Dgs will reward us with better talismans depending on ilvl

Is it RNG talismans?
Cause if so, then ye it will become the "good" old grindfest in chase of RNG. It's not like you'll be able to enter raids/parties without that exact correct talisman that was calculated as the best one 1 week after patch hit K-TERA so NA has to know it before they ever have it.

Given how RNG the hairstyles are and how RNG the original rolls system was, it would not surprise me if this is also RNG. The point that Talismans appear to drop from dungeons also doesn't help (remember how getting Keen, Intense and Quick gear used to be RNG?)
clfarron4 wrote: »
2) it makes the entire gearing process harder for newer players, a backwards step from what the whole point of the current gearing system is supposed to do.

They dont care about new players. Only about those who buy their stuff. Or why would happen such a stupid change to glyphs on IOD.

This was a point brought up by the KTERA playerbase.
Nibellung wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Nibellung wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Nibellung wrote: »
i think people didnt read or didnt pay atention in the develover note, people lvl 65 will receive talisman with rolls we already used. Dgs will reward us with better talismans depending on ilvl

Not sure I read correcly on patch notes, but for someone who have 5 lines in weapon plus the armor lines that get removed how I will get back those stats with only 4 tier 1 talismans that will be handed to me?

This may be annoying for many end-game players, for those who haven't reached level 65 yet won't be that annoying because they are still getting used to those stats.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mzkKpEFDsBvFZ3rPC0Yju5uaQUetpFYi3mZjSwlQwb0/edit

check page "16" and "17" ur asnwer is there.

Page 17 clearly state that I will have nerfed versions of the stats I already have and I even will lose 1 complete line or 2.

yes attack speed and cdr are nerfed, but i dont think we will lose "lines" , rolls like "damage from behind, flat damage and damage in highest agro" will become "attack modifier"

But players that are less geared will, if everyone is interpreting this correctly, be worse off even with the increase in damage modifier.
Since any constructive post made on the EME forums is deleted because its constructive, I'm posting this here.

TL;DR: Keep the gear rolls on the gear as it has been for years, and use Talismans to introduce a wider range of class specific effects.

====

I would like to make a proposal to change the Talismans to make it more acceptable to current players and easier on new players. But first we need an understanding of how it works. My understanding of the gear rolling system is as follows:

Before Talismans:
- ​Gear lines can be freely chosen when a piece of gear is first obtained
- Gear lines can be changed at a cost of semi enigmatic scrolls which are quite accessible
- You can choose one class specific skill line on the chest piece

Talismans as proposed:
- ​​Gear lines on the gear are fixed. Everyone gets the same thing
- The customisation of the entire system is moved to Talismans
- Getting the rolls you want completely depends on RNG drops of Talismans from dungeons
- Less geared players get less rolls available to them than before the Talismans update
- Each Talisman, in addition to the traditional gear roll, can get an addition class specific roll once enchanted above a certain tier.

​The two big points that everyone seems to be discontent about are that 1) you would have to grind away for a gear setup that you already have and have to fight RNG to potentially never get it; and 2) it makes the entire gearing process harder for newer players, a backwards step from what the whole point of the current gearing system is supposed to do.

The only actually new thing that Talismans brings to the game mechanics is the ability to mix and match multiple class specific skill lines. So, why not​ instead:
- ​​Keep the gear roll system as it had been for years. It works, and it's friendly to newer players as it is and you're not pissing off players by making them grind for something they already have
- Remove the class specific line from the Chest Piece
- Use Talismans to allow players to use more than one class specific skill line.
6R1MM01R3 wrote: »
Melyodis wrote: »
can someone confirm if ktera community complains about lags and the same noc lags we have?

Their internet connections are in average far better than over NA, and as long as you have 50 MB/s download speeds you dont lag from normal noctenium, so they probably dont have the issue.
6R1MM01R3 wrote: »
Melyodis wrote: »
can someone confirm if ktera community complains about lags and the same noc lags we have?

Their internet connections are in average far better than over NA, and as long as you have 50 MB/s download speeds you dont lag from normal noctenium, so they probably dont have the issue.

Seraphinush made a thread about lag on KTERA asking NA to see if we had the same problem, so I can only assume that they also have the same issues.
@KillerPenguins Do you remember the massive lag that happened during the BAMassacre event that got wound down?

During that event, the ping to diag.enmasse.com was the normal 90ms ping for me, but my in game ping to MT was staying above 200ms and spiking as high as 500ms.

What that indicated is that the route to the EME servers was fine but MT was falling over due to the stress caused by the event.
The core of the problem is that BHS took something core to the game mechanics that the players already have, took it away from them and put it behind what looks to be a massive grind to get back to what the players originally had.

Needless to say, the players are not happy. Many players have posted the following emoji (meaning dead body) in response to the whole thing

●▅▇█▇▆▅▄▄▇

Funnily enough, KTERA players are also up in arms about it because they believe it negatively impacts newer players.
Piltover wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »
Given how the last attempt at community collaboration went, I think there's gonna be a load of paperwork that EME would throw at any future community collaboration.

I don't really follow this topic, what was the last community collaboration we had?

It was the collaboration with Essential Mana leading up to the RK9 release, where Essential Mana wrote the guides for the new gear. There are claims that someone released information on the mats to token conversion rates early and used it to profit before the rates were officially announced.
Lapomko wrote: »
The bad part about dps meter especially with the low population right now is that everyone will know that particular person is trap from putting out abysmal low dps. He/She would never get invited or accepted into LFG's. One guy wanted to join our party and he has +9 stormcry but because his dps is low af on on this mlg score run site datamined from the dps meter people tell me not to accept him fear of trapping our run. Imagine new players that want to run a dungeon but because his dps is low af no accepts him? He will just quit the game from negative experience.

Given how development of extras to TERA happens, everyone is going to gave to live with a DPS meter, be it developed by TERA publishers and developers or the community. So we're going to have this regardless.

In case you're wondering, RU are openly developing a DPS meter into their build (so that'll be BHS working on a DPS to put into their build) and I believe that EU are also developing one (or are at least open the idea of a DPS meter integrated into the build).
If we ignore all the network infrastructure that would have to be in place to get this stuff going, this is essentially the route of community collaboration here.

Given how the last attempt at community collaboration went, I think there's gonna be a load of paperwork that EME would throw at any future community collaboration.
MistyTera wrote: »
I feel you all. Really I'm telling that essential mana is enough to help you not think about DPS meter for yourself and get banned by using it.

What part of "DPS meters and the data they produce are used by the writers of the Essential Mana guides to help them make informed decisions on what is optimal." did you miss?

A prime example of this is Daniel's Lancer Guide. Intuition would say that Lancers should stack as much crit to get more crits to do more DPS, but his experience with Lancer on this patch says otherwise. How do you think Daniel came to that conclusion? And how do you think players could test this for themselves?
When released in KTERA, I believe there were two types of boxes:

1) Standard:This box gives you a random hairstyle and automatically applies it to your toon.
2) Premium: This box gives you a random hairstyle, but you can preview it before deciding whether to apply it.

Loriri or Seraphinush would know the fine details
Man, I love this reaction on the KTERA forums to Talismans
http://puu.sh/zsA5N/62e8d1feed.png
Credit goes to JasonTERA for the SS
There is a tell for each mechanic for each of the bosses. Just learn the tell and you will be able to walk around the bubbles.

I don't do crab regularly, so I can't describe the tell, but I could when I get back to playing.
Tewii wrote: »
ElinUsagi can just be ignored. They know nothing of the subject.

Awaiting the pointed finger in my direction saying that as a council member I should know better than to insult the glorious ElinUsagi, as everything they state is correct even when they cherrypick the most irrelevant parts of a topic.

A DPS meter provides far more valuable information easier, more indepth, and is far more accessible than counting things yourself. Certain sites which are setup to take data from these DPS meters lay it all out in a very handy webpage for you to pick and look at.

It's a tool of immeasurable utility for any player, whether it be the top tier min-maxers, or the casual players looking to improve their gameplay based on a guide they've read - guides which would not be nearly as accurate as they are today without the prevalence of DPS meters.

Satnavs in cars are entirely unnecessary. Maps have existed for years. But amazingly, Satnavs are now the standard, and a wholly accepted quality of life benefit. See the point I'm making here? A certain forum poster won't.
Tewii wrote: »
ElinUsagi can just be ignored. They know nothing of the subject.

Awaiting the pointed finger in my direction saying that as a council member I should know better than to insult the glorious ElinUsagi, as everything they state is correct even when they cherrypick the most irrelevant parts of a topic.

A DPS meter provides far more valuable information easier, more indepth, and is far more accessible than counting things yourself. Certain sites which are setup to take data from these DPS meters lay it all out in a very handy webpage for you to pick and look at.

It's a tool of immeasurable utility for any player, whether it be the top tier min-maxers, or the casual players looking to improve their gameplay based on a guide they've read - guides which would not be nearly as accurate as they are today without the prevalence of DPS meters.

Satnavs in cars are entirely unnecessary. Maps have existed for years. But amazingly, Satnavs are now the standard, and a wholly accepted quality of life benefit. See the point I'm making here? A certain forum poster won't.

To further the satnav analogy further, I believe that the UK government is integrating the use of satnav into the Driving Tests, in recognition that people use them as part of day to day driving.

Just like how RU and EU TERA are developing user accessible DPS meters to be deployed into their respective builds.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
.
Obs wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
AxeI wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Ardire wrote: »
how do you ya'll think.... guides get made.... how do you think the guide makers figure out what an optimal rotation is...... what glyphs will out put the best damage in said optimal rotation..... take a second, think about it. the answer might shock you!!!

Guides were made even before dps meter came into the game.

If we didn't get mters we will still have guides and theorycrafters.

Previous guides were made with black box testing, nothing was accurate back then. We would still have guides and theorycrafters but not as in-depth as it is now.

We already have logs with acurate damage information, the same info that uses the dps metter, as I said before.

Guides would be as in deph as they are now, you maybe are understimating theorycrafters too much, we have a game that is several years old with few classes and not so many changes as other games that have more things to keep on cheack.

And in the end it seems you also overstimate people who uses metters because as far I have seen, they take too much time to understand their numbers, then you may be calling most of the dps metter rettarded people because if you say a person with an IQ of 40 can interpret it then it is obvious you do not know what you even said there. A person would need about 80 IQ to understand the data from dps meters.

Meter is an immensely useful tool for guide creators even if it's just for just gathering data.

The crit formula that is currently used today would be near impossible to make without the use of the meter to gather a large amount of data without wasting an incredible amount of time adding numbers. Without that formula, many of the guides wouldn't be as accurate. Honestly, without the exact numbers, you would have so many people stating "240 crit" as law instead of it actually being lower/higher. The original "math" heavy guide was using a horribly outdated formula of 0.18x crit factor = crit chance from behind.

You mean the formula that was wrong even with the use of the dps metters and had to be checked again by theorycrafters last year on May/June?

You know how much of the general belief was finger in the air up to that point? If I'm not mistaken, that formula was stated not to account for stuff like triple crit glyphs for whatever reason.

On your point about damage logs: yes, there are damage logs, but you got to parse them out into something meaningful for people to able to something with them.
It literally screws over the ability to play at least 3 classes to play at all in end game without grinding to potentially never get the rolls required to be able to play effectively.

And that's ignoring the fact that you still got to grind to get the rolls you used to have to be effective
Ahhhhhh the monthly "Is TERA dead?" post - I was wondering if we'd see you come up in February.

And I finally have an answer: "No. It's not."

If the post was meant more to focus on the "Will BHS improve TERA?" part, then I also have an answer: "Yes. They will."

@seandynamite

Where are the FPS optimisations that people have been asking for since before beta?
Where is the ping equalisation people have been asking for for the last few years?
Where is the UI optimisation that people have been asking for since pre-beta?
Where is the fix for the noctenium lag that people have been asking for for the last few years?
When will BHS revisit the idea of turning on Talents for regions outside of TERA, now that the system has been proven to work? It is blatantly obvious that the game is balanced around Talents now.

@Denommenator Will any of the optimisations being applied to the console be considered for the PC version?
It's been said before and it's going to be said again.

Turn on the permanent Double Vanguard Rewards and leave it.

If you want to create exciting and interesting events, please look at other mechanisms.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
I know that his can make some players mad at, but I think common nocterious should be blocked of being used and make the players to get the blue and gold noct.

If BHS don't have any intention to fix them then at least they can do that much.

Problem is that rare/superior nocts is that they make the inventory calls, so you still have the lag, albeit you're not updating the inventory with a new inventory.
We used to have a pretty decent system with leaderboards in the game where you could measure your performance against other players, albeit it was party based, but BHS decided that it was a good idea to be removed from the game (though it looks like the leaderboards system for PvE might come back, seeing as it's back for FWC in KTERA).

Amusingly enough, RU TERA have implemented a DPS meter into their build for their own DPS leaderboard and they've been consulting their community on what type of DPS meter they want in their game.

I believe that EU TERA are doing the same, but without the public consultation.
I knew a player that played with the UI off by pressing Ctrl Z twice because they couldn't do dungeons otherwise
Most definitely still an issue today.

And using superior/rare Nocts still has the issue unless you have 0 Nocts in your inventory
@HAAYAAKD43 I said to @seandynamite that the Vanguard base rates need to be made clear in an official statement, because confusion over what base build rates are still exists. As of yet, I have see no such statement, and thus I refer to a post I made in the forums.

https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/21166/vanguard-rewards-what-does-increased-rewards-actually-mean

@seandynamite I recommend to you that EME should make an official post on what Vanguards are, along with a statement explaining your decision to turn off the permanent double VG rewards that have been implemented by previous Product Managers
ElinUsagi wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »
@Werid https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19Ws1xFVTik93aSbf2fMkz3ZQmIY_uiEm5pXuSTqVRbk/edit#gid=0

https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/21166/vanguard-rewards-what-does-increased-rewards-actually-mean#latest

What I want to know is what does Increased Reputation apply to at level 65, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to Guardian Missions (the only active reputation source that is useful at level 65);.
I believe "Increased Reputation" actually means an increase in Vanguard Credits.

If that was the case, then why would do Elite players not get an increase in Vanguard Credits from the Reputation Boost that comes with Elite?

We get them.

If you look at the missions you will notice that you get double vanguards credtis when you complete them.

That means an elite player with the triple vanguards rewards receive 3 (triple vanguards) x 2 (elite status) times vanguard credits.

We don't. Compare what we're getting from triple vanguards with what is the actual base build (aka the KTERA rates).

Yes we do.

Just to make an example, PoP normal vanguard credtis are 35, with triple event you get 105 and if you have elite you get 210 Vanguard Credits.

Then that needs to be made clear on the Vanguards UI, because it says 150 VG Credits for 439 dungeons (take RK9) and not 300.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »
@Werid https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19Ws1xFVTik93aSbf2fMkz3ZQmIY_uiEm5pXuSTqVRbk/edit#gid=0

https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/21166/vanguard-rewards-what-does-increased-rewards-actually-mean#latest

What I want to know is what does Increased Reputation apply to at level 65, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to Guardian Missions (the only active reputation source that is useful at level 65);.
I believe "Increased Reputation" actually means an increase in Vanguard Credits.

If that was the case, then why would do Elite players not get an increase in Vanguard Credits from the Reputation Boost that comes with Elite?

We get them.

If you look at the missions you will notice that you get double vanguards credtis when you complete them.

That means an elite player with the triple vanguards rewards receive 3 (triple vanguards) x 2 (elite status) times vanguard credits.

We don't. Compare what we're getting from triple vanguards with what is the actual base build (aka the KTERA rates).
clfarron4 wrote: »
@Werid https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19Ws1xFVTik93aSbf2fMkz3ZQmIY_uiEm5pXuSTqVRbk/edit#gid=0

https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/21166/vanguard-rewards-what-does-increased-rewards-actually-mean#latest

What I want to know is what does Increased Reputation apply to at level 65, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to Guardian Missions (the only active reputation source that is useful at level 65);.
I believe "Increased Reputation" actually means an increase in Vanguard Credits.

If that was the case, then why would do Elite players not get an increase in Vanguard Credits from the Reputation Boost that comes with Elite?
I think the message is that they see stuff on the Development Roadmap and they would like to see if EME could actually push it out earlier than the last week of the month.
@Werid https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19Ws1xFVTik93aSbf2fMkz3ZQmIY_uiEm5pXuSTqVRbk/edit#gid=0

https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/21166/vanguard-rewards-what-does-increased-rewards-actually-mean#latest
Since there appears to be some confusion over what base Vanguard Rewards are and what "increased rewards" means, I've made a spreadsheet of what the rewards are according to the rates you get in the core build of TERA.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19Ws1xFVTik93aSbf2fMkz3ZQmIY_uiEm5pXuSTqVRbk/edit#gid=0

This confusion has arisen because EME have run a "Double Vanguards" Event for so long that the "Double Vanguards" is what everyone calls "base rewards". Adding in that there was less than one week where the permanent double vanguards were turned off and the first "increased rewards has left a lot of people confused, because everyone was getting what they were originally (up to the end of January).

Hopefully, this should clear up what is meant by @seandynamite or any of the TERA team mean whenever they intend to run an "increased vanguards rewards" event.

And yes, we still have people incorrectly saying that they should be getting 2250g, 13500 metamorphic tokens, 1200 gear EXP, 360 VG credits, 840 nocts and 6 scales per RKHM clear, because the meaning of what "increased rewards" and "base rewards" has not been communicated.
People just keep on kicking players off the team because they have equalized gear, don't have all the pve crystals, or for whatever reason. It just deters players (especially newbies) from pvp and people wonder why pvp is dead. We all have to start somewhere. I feel that you've given too much power to players deciding who is worthy of entering battlegrounds. You could get kicked for any reason as long as a few people vote. Ive been kicked off so many bg raids for being a member of a certain guild. If people who don't have pvp crystals are gonna get kicked anyway, then why not just make it a requirement to enter battlegrounds and make it so that it is harder to kick people off for any other reason

Part of the problem is a certain guild deliberately kick people so they can get more guildies into their team. Their excuse of "eq gear" or "incorrect crystals" is a convenient excuse that a lot of the tryhards can accept and would go along with.

There have been discussions about equalising the crystals etc in the past, but I will believe such a change when it actually gets implemented.
Singlebear posted this (not-pinned) post 10 hours ago: https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/21146/bamassacre-event-update#latest
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Honestly guys.. please make sense of this.. how is removing every kill amount below 500 but keeping the 500 kill amount reward going to reduce lag on a server? Wouldn't you think it would be a smarter idea to keep the lower kill amount rewards up to lets say 200 kills.. that way they can kill the bams fast and move on from the event? If this was actually a server lag issue like they claim it to be.. and don't get me wrong I do understand that with any event the servers lag severely and they were lagging.. but if this was ACTUALLY the reason for this change. Why would they keep the 500 kill amount and remove every reward below that? They used this as an excuse because of the amount of rewards people were getting plain and simple.

They may suspect that the rewards counters were the thing making the issue.

However they should have increased the rewars from 500 kill making it worth all the previous added togheter.

TL; DR: It's an alright counter for something that is not progressed very quickly, but falls over once you start throwing lots at it.

Prior to this "Monster Killing" event, this rewards counter has been used by other regions (most notably EU) to track dungeon rewards for additional loot, which is usually 4 quests each requiring 10 clears of a named dungeon to complete. Generally you will never receive two or more quests on the rewards counter for the same thing.

As we saw with this event, it's not so good for monster kills. Why? It is 1) adding rewards to more than one counter at a time from the same thing; and 2) it is ticking all the active counters much fast than with dungeons. Add in the point that you can farm it much faster on multiple toons and you got a recipe of nothing short of pain.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
I feel the main problem was the event was too successful/popular, if less were doing it at the same time it may have not been as bad.

I smell that multi accounts using multi clients were abusing the event and that make the lag fest wee had.

Bots or no bots, there was a noticeable increase in poor performance from the servers once it was announced that the number of event tiers was going to be reduced.
Not going to beat around the bush here. It's not even 2pm PST, 5pm EST. You still have 3 hours at the earliest to peak.

It's pretty obvious that if you continue like this, the event is going to cause the amount of lag that we experienced on the release day of the Valkyrie class. And yes, I can already see plenty of Valks where Runeburst is only firing 4 of the hits maximum, only because this is an open world event, it affects Open World AND dungeons.

There's a reason why Gameforge killed this event pretty quickly and replaced it with their more usual Dungeon Type event (which works on the same Elin Interface icon).
ElinLove wrote: »
5 lvls higher?? Which is that? o-o

I would bet it only applies to leveling players, after all there's no Lv 70+ BAMs anywhere as far as I know

The level thing is approximately +/- 3 levels of what level you are.
EU are running the same event and they officially turned it off an hour ago.

Ws0zGZS.png
So, I decided to have a look at what the 15 USD I pay a month to EME for my subscription actually gets me and I put it up in a spreadsheet to make it easier for me to follow. I collated the list of rewards from both EME's website and the in-game mouse-over dialogue.

The first thing that strikes me is there are listed rewards which I'm not even sure are being applied. These are:
1) Daily Bonus Quest Increase: What is it? and What does it apply to?
2) Valkyon Responses from IMS: It's a listed reward, and it doesn't get rewarded anymore. You used to get "Valkyon Response" boxes for completing a dungeon with IMS. I remember that I did used to get Valkyon Response IVs from IMS when completing level 65 dungeons, but I don't remember when the last time I got one was.
3) Monthly Account Rewards: As far as I'm aware, we don't get a "monthly reward".

Then there's the stuff that looks good until you realise how it works:
4) Quester's Gold Boost: This applies only to Story and Area Quests. Doesn't apply to VGs, making it practically useless for a level 65 player.
5) Gold Hunter Boost: I'm not sure there are any monsters/npcs in game that you would kill on a regular basis that drops gold any more. Last one I remember was the gold box in Bathsymal Rise, and that gold drop got nerfed to the point where using a Gold Boost was pointless.
6) Reputation Boost: Unless this applies to Guardian Missions and the rewards, this died a death when Bellacarium and Killing Spree credits were killed off.

As someone that mostly (but not always) runs PvE content, the dungeon entries, nostrums and Crystalbind are the bits that matter to me, because they're part and parcel of what I use. For PvP players that mostly run BGs on the other hand, these three items are pretty useless, and I know a few players in this situation that don't subscribe to Elite status because of these. I don't know about people that like to hang out in VO or PvP during Open World events, so I won't comment.

Crafting Speed is, well crafting speed. Less time crafting means more time to [filtered] kill stuff.

I am having a load of fun on my Gunner bombing around in BGs though, so I might end up in the same position as many of the PvP players in BGs, where I'd actually be better off without it because it wouldn't benefit me.

Are EME considering making tweaks to Elite Status?
You know what, because I know that people at EME won't do this, I've made a spreadsheet of what the VG rewards are and how much you're supposed to get, with what it means for double and triple rewards, because people can't grasp the concept of how much Vanguard rewards are supposed to give on NA.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19Ws1xFVTik93aSbf2fMkz3ZQmIY_uiEm5pXuSTqVRbk/edit?usp=sharing

@seandynamite It would be great if this could be made into a formal support page somewhere on either the EME guides or EME support.
UpperDown wrote: »
VG isn't doubled for IOD. It's been 1 and a half days now so maybe should fix it sometime soon since this bonus event doesn't last very long? Or you'll extend it after fix? either way do something. Thanks.

@UpperDown You should be getting the VG rewards at the original rates before they turned off the permanent double VG rewards we've been getting for the last few years. I'm not in game right now, but higher tier BAMs were dropping 24 Dawnstorm Tokents, 2 Enchanting Boxes, but only 120 gear exp and 300 gold last night.

If I am not mistaken:

x times VG Rewards means drops of items Dragon Scales, Noctenium, Enchantment Boxes, Dawn[type] tokens are increased x times, Gold, Item EXP and Metamorphic Emblems are not

@seandynamite Could we have a help/support page with definitions such as this? It would greatly clear up what is meant by each of these type of events.
CornishRex wrote: »
Lapomko wrote: »
You are quite naive to think that eme doesn't know how the game works. They can easily go through their logs and figure out whois using it. So they wouldn't ban this guy with just a speculation.

At least I make people aware to think twice before posting their lag issue on forum. If you have nothing to hide you don't have to be scared in the first place..
The keyword in this guy post is "last week".

Yes, eme relies only on people accusing others of cheating so that they can go and look through logs. So if someone said in the chat once "hehe im such a cheater xd" as a joke, if they get reported, that's good evidence for eme to ban them hue. That's why I said to be careful when accusing others openly.

Also the amount of times I've seen people call desyncing brawlers (when that's a normal thing that happens to anyone ingame) cheaters is too damn high. People have been so quick to jump and accuse others of cheating after the whole fiasco it's getting scary.

So no op, you're not a cheater because you're lagging lmao

Part of the problem with Brawlers is the design of how things work when they are blocking. With Lancers, Warriors and Zerkers, the standard block/parry consists of just the block and the calculations around how much damage will bleed through the block, whether it's a "Defense Success" and its chain skill. That's 4 things.

The standard block (Counter) for a Brawler consists of the block, the calculation of the amount of damage that will bleed through the block, whether it is a "Defense Success", whether it is a "Perfect block", how much damage the block should be doing to the aggressor, the distance the Brawler should have moved, how much rage should be generated and skill chains. That's nearly double the amount of things for the game and server to consider.

Add in the Growing Fury buff and you then have to also consider the Growing Fury buff and the current skill being used. That's 10 things for the game to consider.

It shouldn't take a genius to realise that when you have more things to process over a network, the higher your ping, the more likely something is going to not work as intended when compared to low ping environments (and you have to remember that this game is designed to run in a country where having more than 20ms ping while gaming is effectively criminal and the concept of an Internet package with bandwidth less than 150Mbps is non-existent today).
Ves1978 wrote: »
if it's gonna make people less sad, this event is a disaster, FIHM drops DW mats, FINM drops ambush mats...

You'd be surprised how OP the last patch jewellery can be.
https://en.tera.gameforge.com/news/detail/event-return-to-the-forsaken-island

Maybe we could have an event similar to this?
It does beg the question when an optimisation patch going to happen? Hopefully, some of the optimisations they would have had to make for the console ports could be tested against the PC version.
Lapomko wrote: »
You are quite naive to think that eme doesn't know how the game works. They can easily go through their logs and figure out whois using it. So they wouldn't ban this guy with just a speculation.

At least I make people aware to think twice before posting their lag issue on forum. If you have nothing to hide you don't have to be scared in the first place..
The keyword in this guy post is "last week".

They've issued and then rescinded permanent bans over obviously photoshopped screenshots though. Happened during Open World events where they issued the ban first and then overturned it on appeal when they realised the enormity of their mistake.
@seandynamite Are you sure that 3am PST on a Saturday, or anytime during the weekend for that matter, is a good idea to be turning on an event that you've had to manually turn on every single time attempts to execute it have been made in the past?
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Vinyltails wrote: »
HLK76PFWXT wrote: »
There never will be and you of all people should know that.

Actually.. It seems that that it was fixed on EU though i have no idea about the details ( just info from friends ).

it got fixed on EU because they actually went to other players to PROPERLY fix it...meanwhile BHS "fixes" are reverted within 5minutes

EU still complains about memeslash cases in this year.

So, where is this fix that they did?

Edit: Actually the funny part is that some EU players claim NA made a better fix for meme slash.

It was never actually fixed. What EU did was they rate-limited the speed at which a server accepts the same attack to something like 20x per second, Still usable, but not worth your time.

What "NA" did was provide a version of it which would teleport your toon into an area where you have to be fished out by the GMs, IF they knew how to do it.
Whilst I believe that the best solution the disparity caused by the Talent System is for BHS to tell all regions to turn it on, I would support Ketoth's proposal as an alternative as it captures the main parts of the Talent System that would probably be suggested to be used in class guides if they were written for the Talent System.

The bonus for BHS if they were to enable the Talent System across all regions is that they would be bringing all the builds outside of KTERA in-line with the KTERA build, efffectively equalising a significant part of the core build across all the regions. This is good because it means they don't have to cater to two core builds. Yes, there would be the issue in that KTERA would be getting on towards 3 years of grind of Talent System levels ahead of everyone else, but that should correct itself over time by people playing the game.
Unless they actually fill the post that Spacecats left, EME only has one CM for all titles that EME publish. Circuits.
A proper fix to this would be making the default chain key something that wasn't spacebar.

An alternative would be to make the Jump Action rebindable to a different key.
Quite a lot of people moved from AV the day server transfers were turned back on.
Huv wrote: »
CM said he forwarded the feedback already. Complaining more wont change anything. We shall wait and see how EME reacts. Thats all there is to this topic now. Let the flame rest

TERA doesn't have a CM right now. EME is back in the situation that occurred when Spacecats started, but this time with Circuits being the only Community Manager for all the games that EME publishes.

I'm only trying to propose stuff that would increase the amount of nocts that we get in the game, while staying away from the "freebie" idea that seandynamite seems to be wanting to really stay away from.
And maybe Noctenium Chest box drops from dungeons like the do in EU.
InFRaReD28 wrote: »
As someone who farms hard content, i have no way to keep funding my noctenium usage. There's not even an option of buying superior nocs with gold, its insane. Why is this even an issue in our region? Blue nocs are essential free hand outs in other regions. Why do you want it to be harder here @clfarron4 ? I can have all the normal nocteniums in the world but I cannot make them superior. Even if i wanted to make normal nocs into uncommon blues, i need a ton of vanguards to buy those expensive refiners WHICH ONLY LASTS 15 MINUTES. An RKEM run takes almost twice the time and thats not counting wipes.

Then three proposals should be put forward to @seandynamite for the updates to the Vanguard Credit Merchants:
1) Lower the VG credit cost of Noctenium Refiners. Maybe this should be done as part of a lowering of the cost of more than a few items in the credits store.
2) Make the refiners available for high tiers of nocts available in the VG credit merchant. On release on EU, the corresponding refiners cost:
Dialoonia wrote: »
In EU:

300 VG for 10 Min (need 300 Noc)
500 VG for 15 Min (need 600 Noc)
700 VG for 30 Min (also need 600 Noc)

3) Keep the permanent double Vanguard Rewards, because everyone was actually happy with those.
VirtualON wrote: »
Meanwhile smartdyads can be bought for 2K on broker on EU. That would be too easy for us though.

Yeah, their solution was to make it so you get Smart Dyads through the cash-shop and it works for them.
Partyblast wrote: »
metagame wrote: »
no, it's not. no other version of the game has its players complaining about their vg rewards, and if any do it's because they compare it to ours

No other version is complaining about their VG rewards because they all have regional changes such as dungeon loot to keep things moving, EmE has completely avoided every topic about dungeon loot and are taking months to work on in-game shops. Instead they remove something that has been ongoing for over a year just so they can play around and return it to us as "fun events"....

I believe that the double VG rewards has been going on for nearly 3 years.

Anyways, your point stands. In EU for example, whilst they only get the base amount of VGS rewards, last time I checked they additionally get from dungeons
- Elleon Tokens (another token shop for gear)
- GoldFinger Tokens
- Semi-Enigmatics
- Additional rewards from promoted events, where you get rewards for running certain dungeons X amount of times.

====

@seandynamite Since the EME team appear to be going ahead with the plan to run the base amount of VG rewards, I would like to ask if you would be willing to run a feedback session in the last week of February so that opinions on the matter can be collected in an orderly fashion.
The Guardian Missions give plenty of nocts that can be converted into the higher tier nocts using the converters that you can get in the VG Credit shop. Yeah, they're not the 30 minute duration ones, but they're still the special tier nocts.
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