TERA Online forum archive
Posts by admonitu
I think after getting max exp on a piece of equipment, it should give an option of expending X times the normal number of each enchanting material for 100% chance to succeed.

The enchanting system would be the same as now if the piece of gear hasn’t reached max exp, but once the pieces obtain maximum experience, it opens another option to enchant.

Frostmetal
Use 3X enchanting mats for 100% chance to obtain next enchantment after +6

Stormcry
Use 4X enchanting mats for 100% chance to obtain next enchantment after +6.

Player can choose to use the 100% chance option or just stick with rng.
I’m not promoting the use of the meter or the website that the said meter uploads the results to. But players usually have no idea how bad they do until they actually see their own number. Sure, they can survive mechs and know the dungeon, but they never really bother to push their class to the limit unless they know exactly how they are doing.

Getting high DPS requires team work and thorough understanding of mechanics and their own class. Knowing to facetank only when safe and necessary, knowing how to handle mechs in a way that will allow everyone in the pt, including yourself, to pull higher DPS, your own class skill rotations, knowing how to be aggressive without getting yourself killed.

Some groups are known to slow down DPS in preparation for big push during upcoming enrage so everyone’s buff is up and etc. And communicate their buff cd to other members.

The people you’re describing are just amateurs who selfishly try hard to pull big numbers and fail.

You use meter or the website as tools to improve your gameplay, not harass others. The said website tells you what skills you used, how many times, and allow you to look at better players and their skill usage so you can find which area you need to focus on. It also tells you rebuff or buff up times so even healers can work on improving their game. Despite being against TOS, it can potentially provide so much benefit and it’s sad to see people abusing it.
SoyKupo wrote: »
It's your own fault for not paying attention. Last time what happened to me, I listed an item with 1-2 less 0's behind it and lost a lot of gold. I put in a ticket and they said they can do nothing about it. I presume the same applies for if you buy the wrong item.

Its different. In this case, someone unethical is intentionally trying to trick other players into buying things that are pretty much worthless. No one really tricked you into listing an item with less zeros. Even if EME does not actually change the item name this thread can at keast raise awareness.

it's mind boggling how people just blame the victims and not the perpetrators. These are the same people that will blame the rape victims for how they look or dress rather than blaming the rapist.
I agree that people shouldn't be upset like this over 1 death in a low dungeon. The berserker definitely went overboard. But looking at the screenshot, there is one line that caught my eye:

The OP said "Don't ever blame the healer". When I saw that, it made me think that OP may have serious attitude problem.

And also because OP said that, I think there may be more to this story than what OP is showing us. It's really hard to defend someone when they say something like "Don't ever blame me".. like they are immune to any faults of their own and think there is nothing wrong with the way they do things.
The second thing that bothers me is the title of this thread - why do you say that people are toxic to healers specifically? Any reason you left out DPS and tank? Because they do deal with toxic people too.

I understand that someone dying isn't always the healer's fault, but I bet you that in many situations, there are some things the healers could've done better to possibly prevent certain death - again, you can't do much for braindead people that refuse to dodge or avoid mechs and I get it.

People that always believe that they do everything right will NEVER improve. I've seen players like this and their performance never changes and makes the same damn mistakes over and over. It's like they truly believe that they are doing everything perfect and if anything bad happens, it's always other player's fault. Sometimes, I'm almost afraid to give any advice or suggestions to some players because they just can't accept them in a positive way and think that they already doing everything right...

Konada wrote: »
But what about the 10 hours that we lost?

They already reset the GG entries.. Can we drop it now? We are taking this compensation thing too far, I think.
miskay wrote: »
Solution to the entire problem: strike removing every single Elite membership,stop playing the game for one week, that will hurt them a lot,that way we can stand up and be heard for once.

I think it's more likely that they will close NA TERA for good. Both BHS and EME have other games they can focus on.
vkobe wrote: »
streetdog wrote: »
The points that @ElinLove made are actually pretty fair one.
You make party, take a noob, then the noob takes best mats, and what you have achieved is a slow run and a lot of frustration. Now since the mats are no longer an issue, the same thing might happen with diamonds or other gems. And the annoyance and pain is real, since the boss hp and endurance is high even in very basic dungeons.
A fundamental flaw in Tera is that the gear and skill can make way too big difference. In other games noob with bad gear can semi pull his own weight, but in Tera a noob is basically dead weight even in places like rg (not that it matters there, but still annoying). The gear just makes too much difference.

i think in all the mmorpg we have this problem, not only tera :)

I think a lot of people are generally tired of MMORPG now. It's all the same. All have some sort of [filtered] lottery, boring contents that will continue to be recycled, and etc. MMORPG is generally in the decline, not just TERA.

We simply need something new , maybe even some new genre.

Bjond wrote: »
It's very hard for new players to run the upper tier dungeons due to the natural desire to want experienced-only in your group. I'd say Tera as a whole, regardless of server, is the least friendly MMOs to new players I've ever seen -- outright antagonistic in many cases. Turning this around and making it welcoming to new players is the one thing that would ensure the game remains fun.

If incentives are what's needed, then add some BIG ones for bringing in new players. No, I don't mean buddy-system rewards. Those are quite literally pointless; under-65 players don't add anything to the community and (I suspect) aren't yet addicted enough to bother buying anything from the EME store. The rewards shouldn't happen until 65 and should be for teaching new people how to play @ 65 -- low, mid, & upper tier dungeons and various PvP maps. Build an online culture that likes and welcomes teaching new players and you've achieved MMO perpetual motion.

Also, bring back ALL the dungeons. Don't cycle between a small subset. Open up the entire list. Variety keeps things interesting.

General population's toxic behavior is a reflection of how the players are treated by their publisher/developers and their horrible game design.

There are two main factors that drive experience players to shun and flame new/inexperienced players in high dungeons.
1. Reward distribution
2. Run Time

Any non-trivial dungeon loots always have been divided among 5 players. If 1 good item drops, only 1 person in the 5-man party would get it and it's random. This means that even though 5 players worked together to clear the dungeon, only 1 person would have the benefit of obtaining the good item. It's already frustrating enough when the good items goes to a party member that contributes, and it's even outrageous if it goes to a player that barely did anything to help complete a dungeon.

Remember when crafting materials for BiS gear dropped in endgame dungeons. In one patch, I only needed 1 crafting mat to complete my set. I specifically told my party that I needed just 1 specific mat, so if they still had a long way to go or did not need the mat at all, please pass it to me. There was this 1 inexperienced player that was learning. He was pretty much dead for the most of the fight and the rest of us carried his [filtered] all the way. Our healer was especially working hard to resurrect this guy over and over. At the end, what does he do? He says he needed the mat and rolled on the BiS crafting mat against me and won. If the person getting the item was not a floormat and contributed to completion of the dungeons, I would be OK, but a [filtered] floormat just rolled on the item I specifically asked for and won. Later, I found out that he doesn't even have the design to craft any piece. After that, I swore that I would never take any new and inexperienced players and if I happen to find them in my party in the future, I would mercilessly flame them for anything they do wrong.

I originally did not mind spending extra time to teach new players. If all loots were given to every party member, I would be completely fine. But I was really fed up with the BHS's distribution system where players had to roll against one another for certain items.

Now with the arrival of Twistshard/Frostmetal/Stormcry, the crafting mats do not drop from endgame dungeons anymore, but the old legacy still remains. Any non-trivial loots such as rare enchant items, designs, and gems have to be rolled on and only 1 out of 5 member gets it. So, your party has to be lucky enough for the boss to drop any good item and YOU have to be lucky enough to roll for it and win - Bravo.

Now, another issue is the run time. All high-end dungeons take too long to complete - even with good DPS. If you are stuck with a bad party, the run takes 30+ minutes or never even complete it - Even if you complete it after a long time, you still gotta deal with the BS loot distribution. KTera and EU have talents/Awakening or better consumables and they don't suffer as nearly as NA - Their runs are generally faster.

So currently, experienced players are forced to do these.
1. Do solo contents such as IoD, PoP, and GG where you are guaranteed to get the good items if the boss drops them
2. Mindlessly grind RG/KC for VG rewards because they are very quick (The clear speed is the only reason why we do these).
3. Form static or only play with good skilled friends to run any high-tier dungeons for better VG rewards and EE.
There is ABSOLUTELY no room for helping new players because doing so will result in a HUGE waste of time and barely any rewards to compensate for the time spent.

Do you want to make NA more friendly for new players? Then, BHS/EME will have to make the following changes.
1. Remove "Rolling". All items dropped in dungeons are given to every party member (Drop rate of certain items may need to be reduced, but seeing how crappy dungeon drops already are, the drop rate may just be fine already).
2. Make the dungeon drops and VG rewards for high-tier dungeons worth the time it takes to complete them.
3. Reduce the time it takes to complete dungeons. With the HP and the endurance that bosses have in SCN, BP, and RKH/E, it's getting TIRING for god's sake - especially if your party wipes over and over.


Do you know what BHS's excuse for not implementing an in-game DPS meter was? They want to promote cooperative gameplay. It seems that BHS do everything in their power to ruin the cooperative gameplay.

I don’t believe the proxy had anything to do with the chat exploit. The chat has been an issue since the beginning - nobody brought it up until then. The proxy devs actually implemented security measure against chat exploits and it was actually safer to use proxy until BHS implemented their own security measures.
Theres a possibility that the real success chance is a little bit lower than the displayed success chance %.

If 100% chance isn’t really 100%, then maybe 30% isn’t really 30% but more like 29.5% or 28%, who knows.

It may not be off by much , but imagine failing +8 or +9 Stormcry enchant because of that missing 0.5%. Who knows how many more tries it will take for the next success and the amount of mats wasted. Failing Avatar weapon or Guardian set is completely different than failing high Stormcry. I would be [filtered] pissed.
LOL rip. Goes to show that nothing in TERA is guaranteed, even when it's 100% ;)
My Warrior friend has a similar (or even the same) issue before. When I look at my friend on my Friend List, it says he is Offline, but when I open up the guild window (We are in the same guild), he would show as Online.

He contacted EME Support about the issue and the response he got was exactly that: Wait till the next maintenance when the server goes offline and automatically log him off.

So that's exactly what he did. He waited till the next maintenance which was about 4-5 days away.

GG.
canikizu wrote: »
voidy wrote: »
6R1MM01R3 wrote: »
Even if you have 99% you can fail, that 1% can screw you over.

People have apparently failed at 100% success rate before, but nobody ever screenshots it when it happens.

It does happen actually, I thought it was a myth, but it happened to me once.

That's interesting. It's not that I don't believe you, but i'd REALLY love to see an actual video. The one that shows 100% Success rate clearly and then fail to enchant. Despite the rumor, I haven't seen an actual proof.

I understand that it's difficult to catch that moment in a screenshot or video, but until someone provides concrete proof, failing at 100% success rate is still a rumor.
The majority of responses you will get with this kind of thread is the condescending [filtered] like "you should've known it's RNG". There is a couple of known forum posters that look for threads just like this and always say that like it's only your fault for buying the boxes and never find anything wrong with this kind of marketing practice.

While it's true that it was YOUR decision to buy the lootboxes, sometimes the limited supply of certain items can make you choose this option.

We have complained about this for so long and honestly, I give up. They will always stick with this practice rather than any other alternatives.

There are always other options that may yield less profit but make up for that loss with customer satisfaction. They could sell such items in lootboxes for 3-4 months for those that still want to take the chance and get the item early and eventually release them with a set price for others who do not want to take the chance and would rather wait.

Another option is to give out one coupon or token for each lootbox a person buys and once they gather 40-50, allow them to exchange them for the item they want.

But, profit always comes first.
You could pay for the first Elite (30-Day). If you play the game, you can buy the next Elite voucher on broker instead of paying real money. You can literally devote 30 min - 1HR per day and you can easily get enough money to get the next Elite voucher.
It seems that you got this idea from one of my posts - https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/20421/tera-is-a-lottery-game-re-skinned-as-a-mmorpg-nice-xmas-event-too-by-the-way#latest

That 0 and 1 example was given to show how RNG may screw someone over. It does NOT mean that the system is rigged, but rather it is the nature of probability. This is not a proof that BHS "intentionally" rigged the system.

I really want MMO's to move away from RNG-based system though. But please stop with the rumor. There is really no proof that TERA's RNG system is intentionally rigged.
@hellno
I think he was being sarcastic.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
admonitu wrote: »
Whiteknighting them will not get you anything. The more important question is did you spend money on EMP?

Spending money would garantue you to get a christmass card?

I think this is more about your local (or international) postal service can reach the address you give on your payment method.

The Address you give on your payment method. You put your address there because you spend money, right? And I never said that it would guarantee. You added that word.

Welp, it's been a while since I used the payment method but how else do they get your address if you never paid?
LesbianVi wrote: »
Borsuc wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
Every where on internet, I mean everywhere I see PUGB. Tera is just here only to mil remaining players.
Haven't been for a while and I see all these white knights turn to black knights, can't say I didn't tell you so.

But naaah, "this patch so gud it brought back so many players, game is so active now omg, and it will remain super active because everyone loves slow [filtered] grinding!!!". That's why you hear everywhere about PUBG right? Clearly, [filtered] slow progression is the reason TERA is so popular. /s

People who "have nothing to do" and play to farm are minority, that's why you see this difference in numbers between PUBG and TERA. The rest went to play games like PUBG, which suffers from many technical issues (and hacks) just like TERA (BHS quality you know). Let it sink deep.

Also why events? Events are bad for the economy dude. Stop asking for events ffs and keep farming.

lol, grow up? I was always vocal about things that goes wrong. You just want your stormcry from forums, that's our different. I still will defend EME against trolls like you.

Nobody said they wanted Stormcry from Forums. We'd have to do some grinding for that, and we accept it. It is mainly the RNG wall that keeps a lot of players from progressing at the pace they want. In the past, EME made mats a lot easier to obtain thanks to events and that somewhat alleviated pain from the enchanting aspect of the game for many players. We didn't ask for free deathwrack. And many people agreed that they should not have made crafting mats for Deathwrack available in easier dungeons.

EME doesn't need you to defend them against "trolls" (And of course, we are trolls for complaining. I really wonder who should grow up). I assure you they sleep just fine at night regardless of whether you "defend" them. Our money is what speaks louder than any threads or posts on this forum. People will only complain so much before deciding that it's time to just quit and move to another game and this is what should really be alarming to all of us.
Borsuc wrote: »
admonitu wrote: »
Whatever made you think NA players loved slow grinds in the first place...
I was fully sarcastic because that's what Vi wanted. "Reap what you sow" and all. (he also said that events are spawn of Satan etc)

Oh, I know. It wasn't directed toward you. Sorry. I should've said "Whatever made them think NA players loved slow grinds in the first place.."
Whatever made you think NA players loved slow grinds in the first place...
It's not my problem. This is the problem with probability and why devs should start moving away from it. While the probability does not work how I described, that's what people expect.

"It's 50% chance, if I use mats for 2 tries it should succeed and I deserve the next enchantment."

With how the probability really works, someone that has 20% chance could potentially succeed 3-4 times in a row and someone with 70% chance could still fail 3 times in a row and that's where unfairness stems from.

It takes just one instance for players to decide that they've had it and quit the game. Nobody will wait around to for the RNG to even things out.
When we think 50% success rate, we expect something like this. (10 tries, 1 representing success and 0 representing failure)

1001010101

But TERA’s 50% chance is more like this.

0000111110

They are both 50% right? But just see how each one provides much different experience for players.
Don’t be surprised if you fail like 3-4 times before finally succeeding.
Whiteknighting them will not get you anything. The more important question is did you spend money on EMP?
In return we had easier time when it came to enchanting and getting mats at least in the past.

It was a trade off. Some idiots still complained that NA had it too easy with enchant mats.
You gave a huge speech about doing something to ban people that use exploit - “Hackers, Your days are numbered!” or some [filtered]. I was a bit hopeful back then.

You need to show us that you have the bite to go with your loud bark, especially after making such bold statements.

The only thing you showed us is that you are completely powerless against the developers of the 3rd party software and the players that use them. Players nowadays openly use exploits and freely share them. Even if nobody spoon-feed you those exploits, they are only one google search away. They are available to the public (Yay, open-source) and for free! DPS meter is like a basic tool that goes with TERA now. Like everyone uses them. I never use DPS meter but I’d say that 3 out of any 5 LFG runs I do get uploaded to Moongourd.com because SOMEONE in my party was running the meter and even set it up to upload the run to the external site. The so-called security patch stopped the 3rd party software for about 3-4 days before the developers bypassed it.

I even heard a rumor that EME support accepts DPS meter stats as a proof of someone using meme slash. Come on now..

If you are really withholding events due to the fear of exploits, it is just sad and ridiculous. You are actually being controlled by the exploiters rather than controlling them yourself. Wake the [filtered] up! This is your game! You are literally allowing outsiders to [filtered] your wife in your own home.

It is just mind boggling how powerless you are.

I understand that BHS is the one that developed the game and their coding and design of this game is so horrendous that 3rd party software developers literally laugh at it while they crack it. But, you really need to step it up.
They both horrible. Plus, EME will never release the actual chance %.

I never bought the golden box but I can already say that with certainty because their other loot boxes always have been like that and always will be unless they change their business model.

Don’t bother with loot boxes. The chance to get the item you desire is so low, it’s almost a scam.
It was developed by Koreans. What do you expect?
If you pay real money for emp, you can gear up quickly regardless of whether you do pvp, pve, or none at all.

Just throwing this out there since you didn’t say anything out paying real money.
Ves1978 wrote: »
it bothers you that the world can see you're P2W? :D

It's irrelevant whether I paid to win or grinded to win. I just don't want others to know that I won an item.
I don't people pm'ing me asking whether I'm selling the item I won and all the "grats".
I also don't want my name to serve as an enticement for all to keep buying lootboxes either.
I don't want the world to know that I enchanted some Stormcry piece to +7, +8, or +9 or that I've gotten a Phoenix out of the lootbox.
Is there an option to turn it off so that the game does not announce my name?

If not, please add it. It's important.

Thank you,
It’s so difficult for BHS to remove RNG completely. Somehow, this makes sense to them and they think players like it? Like why can’t we just farm more exp or even pay triple or quadruple gold and mats for 100% chance..
That's impossible. You definitely do more damage with Stormcry than with Twist.

I won't ask you how you gauge your damage - you may look at the damage number of your each skill or you may be using a tool that we aren't supposed to discuss here, whatever.

But consider these factors: Are you using the same buffs that you had before such as nostrum, any food, priest buffs, mystic aura and etc? Does the boss you're attacking have the same debuff such as lancer's debilitate? Has your party composition changed? Did you change your rotation? Have you gauged your damage in "multiple" runs?
They need to understand that people are driven by profits and rewards. EME should understand this simple concept better than anyone else - after all, they put cosmetic [filtered] and FoTM items in RNG loot boxes because they want to maximize their profit. Why the hell can't they understand that players like to spend their time on things that will yield more reward? It's is [filtered] simple.

Why the hell would anyone spend the time to put together 5 people and spend like 5 min on each boss (WITH the chance of spending more time if the party sucks) for a "chance" to get a decent item? TR is [filtered] dungeon to begin with.

Why do EME and BHS advocate "cooperative gameplay" and the "spirit of the game" when they try so hard to ruin those very principles?

Boss drops 1 item and have 5 people roll for that 1 item, oh yes, they will be so [filtered] cooperative...

Just PLEASE make highlights for IoD bams. You will be more successful with that, I promise you. Stop advocating principles you probably don't even believe in yourself.

You roll for a jackpot. Nice. Of course TERA would never part with RNG. Who the [filtered] would waste time running TRH for a [filtered] chance to get an item. lol. I guess they won't realize that everyone hate TRH.
We need to be clear when using these terms. Enchant vs upgrade. Enchant is raising the enchantment level, for example +1 to +2. Upgrade is obtaining the next tier gear - frostmetal to stormcry.
If you open inventory and right click the accessory,wouldn’t you put it back on?
Funny how EME staff drops in to just say there will be no strongbox event but doesn’t comment on the real issue being discussed in this thread. Yes, [filtered] you players! Lol.
What economy reset are you talking about? Could you explain how the economy was reset?
SageWindu wrote: »
@Borsuc You keep bringing up "min-maxing". I don't think it means what you think it means...

Min-max: Refers to focusing on one or two attributes to make your character strong in one way at the expense of other less desirable attributes. A good example in TERA is most TERA DPS players choosing 4 Power and 4 Crit Rate on rings instead of any other bonuses available.

But many people use the term "min/max" to refer to making your character to do the most DPS in any way possible - maximum gear enchantments, top-tier accessories with perfect rolls, most effective skill rotations (Get 3rd Party tools if you have high ping), consumables, most desirable class comp and players in a party and remove any ineffective members. You get the idea.

Add all those and you get a party that is highly effective and clear the dungeon in the least amount of time and not to mention, your personal DPS is high and you get to brag about it on Moongourd. Most of you want to call this elitism and I understand that. Call it whatever you want and feel however you want toward it.

Although I don't really care about parse runs or so-called "min-maxing". I do get why some people want them and they feel that the current enchanting process is an obstacle to their "min-maxing". In a truly skill-based game, everyone would have the same gear so the player skill would be the only factor in deciding who wins a battleground or clear the dungeon in the least amount of time possible. TERA is NOT a truly skill-based game. Some players may have an advantage over another player of similar skill due to gear, mounts, or whatever.

Some people say that Stormcry +0 is enough for all contents and that's the end of that... Don't state the obvious. They know that stormcry +0 is enough to clear all dungeons. But, can stormcry +0 clear the dungeon as fast as stormcry +9 given equal skill?

Some of you may feel good about being able to clear dungeons with mediocre gear or completely happy with casual life. Good for you, there is NOTHING wrong with that. For others, simply clearing a dungeon isn't enough - "I can clear RK-9 but so can hundreds of other players". In order to keep having fun in the game and keep feeling accomplished, they need more competition and incentive than simply "clearing" a dungeon. That is why the meter and moongourd are so popular and they will never go away. Those players just want the best gear so they can focus on parsing and getting the highest score possible, they just want to compete on equal ground, so why should they be held back by the still RNG-infested gearing process that takes longer now? Rich/lucky players will still get +9 stormcry very quickly. Already, I am seeing +8 Stormcry and I wouldn't be surprised if there's already someone with +9 stormcry. A game where both casuals and hardcores are satisfied and can have fun - that is a truly "fun" game.

You guys are bashing each other right now because you have different ideas about how players should enjoy TERA.
A few months ago, after I skimmed through the first ktera revamp note, I mistakenly believed that with vanguard completions, every gear enchanment could reach 100% success rate with enough exp gained. That was probably the happiest moment of my TERA life. Then, I found out that storymcry higher enchantments cap at 15% with even with exp. It's really my fault. I only blame myself for having such high hope for the designers of TERA. Even after admitting the toxicity of RNG in item enchantments, they still couldnt part away from RNG completely.
Whenever EME or BHS removes RNG per player request, they make the guaranteed cost way higher than the RNG average. There is no Winning with them. You may get away from the dreaded randomness and uncertainty, but you pay much higher for guaranteed success than you would on average with RNG.

Just pick your [filtered] poison. The MMO games like TERA are made by the screw up and corrupted country where people only know how to squeeze as much out of others as possible. We just need to lower our expectation rather than hoping they will meet our expectation.
Are you really bragging about 1.5m in RK9 as a brawler?

A skilled lancer can do a lot of DPS too. With just stormcry +2, I did close to 1.2m on my lancer and top lancers already passed 1.5m.

I know that brawlers damage will always be higher than lancers but lancers aren’t too far behind. In addition to decent DPS, lancers provide buffs that benefit the damage dealers in the party.

Brawlers are not OP in PvE. They do good dmg but that’s really all they got. There’s a reason why ppl want lancers in serious score runs.
Are 2 trolls looking out for each other?
The lag actually "helped" you avoid the rockets that come after the triple punch lol. All you had to do was avoid the back AOE and you would've been golden.

But, ya, that was a terrible lag... This hasn't happened to me yet, but I would've been pissed.
The "crybabies" were the majority. Of course, EME caters to the majority of the NA playerbase. I'm quite happy with their decision and thus I will continue to be a paying customer and keep playing the game. NA Server is NA server. I don't give jacksquat how difficult or grindy other servers are as long as the standards of OUR server suits the NA playerbase.

If you think NA server is too easy and we are crying too much, feel free to go to other regions. Don't impose your own standards against the majority. I see a lot of EU players playing on NA server because they like SOMETHING about our server. If you don't like NA players and how things run on NA servers, feel free to go to another region. EU players do, why not you?
There is only one way to get fast gold and it is to buy EMP and sell it for gold or buy store items and sell them for gold.

I know you said you aren't going to buy gold with real money. But there is no other way. You could just wait until you are rich enough to buy that item on the broker when it is available again.
It's one thing to buy like a couple thousand and take the risk of them losing value completely. But you have 25kk...
If I remember correctly, VSNM bosses hit harder than VSHM bosses with regular attacks. But of course VSHM has more one-shot mechs.
When my lancer was in Misery, I found Darkan and Darkuryon easier to tank in VSH except the fire ring and cage because regular attacks did less dmg in VSH.
@voidy
I'm not even sure if adding lakan's treasure chest to vsh will make people to run it more. I cant speak for everyone, but I for one would not run vsh even if it dropped the chest given that I have full deathwrack.

VSH has been an huge disappointment. Maybe people praised schm and sshm too much and BHS thought those were the best things ever and to reduce the development cost, they simply added those same bosses and mechs. What a joke. Darkan and Darkuryon shouldve been put to rest. They masterfully picked the most annoying mechs and tweaked them to make these two even more annoying. No one enjoys fighting Darkan and Darkuryon anymore. They ve been around way too long and the last thing I wanted was to see them reintroduced in VSH. To make thinfs worse, these guys have way too much hp and endurance. Thank you for encouraging people to run in statics even more.
There is absolutely no reason for people with DW gear to ever run VSH again maybe except for the title. Running this cancer dungeon is masochism. The only reason why I am currently running is because I need talisman from this. After I get enough mats, I will kiss goodbye to VSH and will never look back.

The first 2 bosses were recycled. Not only were they recycled, they were made very annoying by 1. Adding fire around the room for Darkan (Used to be just sides in the original SCHM) and 2. Combining the 2nd and 3rd boss mechs of SSHM in VSH. If that wasn't enough, because of their huge endurance and HP, with subpar DPS, your party is stuck on each boss for a long time like 15 + min and this is assuming you don't wipe. Many mechs force player to stop attacking and just watch the boss do whatever and dodge the usual donut AOE, pizza AOE... etc. Superb design.

Nightmare Lakan is OK. But once you defeat him, what do you get? Just crafting mats. No Lakan's Treasure Chest and nothing you can ever sell on the broker. You get vanguard rewards, but other dungeons reward them too and you can complete other dungeons a whole lot faster and with less stress. If you run VSH and lose the rolls on the Talisman, you just wasted a [filtered] ton of consumables, time, and sanity.

One time, I carried a group of rookies in VSH for almost 3 hours and then I watched them roll on the Talisman and I swore to myself that I would never ever run with people that I don't know let alone rookies. I run only with friends and LFG maybe 1 person if I really have to.

I'm sorry, but you're gonna have a difficult time finding people for VSH.




Loot Distribution
A lot of loots are currently rolled on. A lot of dramas are created because only 1 or 2 people can score the item that everyone in the party needs or wants. This heavily rng based loot distribution is the reason why many people feel nervous when the final boss dies and people start rolling. I hate tanking vsh and carrying new players just so they can snatch the talisman at the end. This is a rage inducing system and encourages people to static parties even more. In a raid, looting can take forever because there's always 1 or 2 players that don't roll or pass.

Why can't everyone in the party get the loots? You can increase the mat requirements or significantly reduce the chance to drop. I'd rather deal with that rng than deal with rng among players.
In the past, people complained about the enchanting and stats rolling on gear and accessories. You would say that those were pointless too because EME can't do anything about it and BHS would just ignore them. BHS is now bringing a revamp to the enchanting system. It's overdue, but the fact is they listened and they working on implementing a new system. I don't know how everything works between EME and BHS, but I bet that all the complaints from players from NA, EU, KR were heard by BHS. You, as a player, do not know how EME and BHS work, what they are capable of, and what their limitations are. Even player councils admit that they don't know how everything in EME and BHS works, so how would any one of us know unless we work at the company?

Now, you may be right that this one thread won't accomplish anything. BHS even said they no longer plan to release any more new classes. But, people are still entitled to create a thread and voice their opinions, vent frustration, or w/e as long as they do not violate the forum rules.
Palomina wrote: »
I've had enough bashing,insulting and what not on this forum by now to not feel anything about what other people say :grin:
Oh, I know. :grin:
Palomina wrote: »
admonitu wrote: »
> @Palomina said:
> What is the point of making such thread? Its not like EME can do anything about this and BHS will most likely never even come to know about this thread.
>
> I heard they are doing class balancing again with the enchanting revamp. Just keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best. Remember, there are ups and downs for the every class.

Then what's the point of making any thread on this forum? What's the point of voicing your opinion about VSHM drops? Is there any guarantee what EME will do something about it or BHS will ever look at it?

What's the point of your post?

What's the point of yours either?

The point of my post is that while EME may not do anything about the issue or BHS may never see our thread, we freely discuss the issue regardless. Because that's what this forum is for. Also, you never know - EME may send our feedback to BHS. So you don't post [filtered] response like "What is the point of making such thread". This is not my thread and not yours either, but how would you feel if you make a thread because you really want to talk about a specific issue that you are concerned about but people simply say "What's the point of making the thread?"
> @Palomina said:
> What is the point of making such thread? Its not like EME can do anything about this and BHS will most likely never even come to know about this thread.
>
> I heard they are doing class balancing again with the enchanting revamp. Just keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best. Remember, there are ups and downs for the every class.

Then what's the point of making any thread on this forum? What's the point of voicing your opinion about VSHM drops? Is there any guarantee what EME will do something about it or BHS will ever look at it?

What's the point of your post?
Grimoir wrote: »
Sorry but.....doing X amount of DPS is not a measure of "degree of mastery" for a class xD But you know what is? Doing a dungeon without dying, clearing a dungeon without stressing the other party members out, clearing a dungeon without being a liability, coaching other players, .....thats what degree of mastery is, not spaming x buttons to do XX damage and call yourself the big boy. The moment you said "competition between players" it already means you are looking down at someone because he does less dps than you.

Unfortunately, your Damage Per Second (except for healers of course) is a good indicator of how well you know your class and how well you understand the dungeon. Party's overall DPS is a good indicator of how well the group as a whole understand their class and the dungeon.

High personal DPS implies the following and by "high", i mean like top 10th percentile of your class.

1. You understand your class's skill rotation and/or have good enough gear, but more importantly, you know optimal rotations.
2. You understand the dungeon mechanics and you are able to survive. (You can't have high DPS if you are on the floor).
3. You know which boss attacks to ignore and depend on your healer to heal you through and which attacks to absolutely avoid because it results in certain death of you or your party members. If you are concerned with avoiding all attacks flawlessly, big and small, you can't push your damage that far. Trust your healer and your teammate to keep you alive and if the healer can't be trusted, too bad, your DPS will suffer.

Doing high damage is NOT about simply spamming x buttons to do XX damage. "Doing a dungeon without dying" is given - you go for high DPS because you can already survive the dungeon with no issue. "Clearing out a dungeon without stressing the party members out" is also given but this does NOT mean allowing healers to just slack because DPS/tank can avoid all attacks - take some non life-threatening hits and give healer something to do, but keep high damage to kill the boss quicker in return.

You have to understand that people enjoy the game differently. You may be OK with simply clearing the dungeon and helping people out and that is Perfectly fine. However, others are competitive. They like to min-max and they want to push their class to the limit and feel good about it and have ego. There is nothing wrong with that either.

Put yourself in the shoes of players who selected the class they liked and spent years to master it, gear it, get achievements, master dungeons, just to see the class become less and less relevant with each new class release. No matter how good you are at your class, people will say [filtered] like "Valk is the FoTM". "Everything else sucks", "Your class is garbage". You can be the best player in your underpowered class, but people will always look at the best player in the overpowered class. Just 100K less DPS? I know some people who would pay a million if they can permanently increase their DPS by 100K.

You may be OK with the class imbalance, but a lot of us are not.
@Dhrizit

I had no idea what you were talking about when I saw your forum post for the first time and I still have no idea what you are talking about in this seemingly last thread of yours.

I understand that Tera is your full time job because you play it like 20 hours a day? Ok
Tempesr Reach is the winner?
Im in Avengers btw. i cannot even really tell whether you are insulting the two guilds or praising them tbh.
But whatever. Ill miss you man.
This is just great... Yosha made the best dungeon guides. Period. Not even Essential Mana guides are as good as Yosha's dungeon guide. It's not wordy, it has useful video clips for each mech. All information on one page without having to click different tabs. I was definitely looking forward to Yosha's guides for next dungeons.

Thank you for all your work, Yosha!
Doesn't the DPS get blamed also when he do a poor job? Who's going to make the "Important things to note before blaming the DPS" thread.

I understand that people have their own excuses but it does not matter. When you don't bring an A game and someone blames you, you don't come to the forum to cry about it.

There are always overgeared douchebags that will try to put other people down. Do we not have that kind of people in the real world? Instead of allowing them to ruin your gaming experience, you ignore them and focus on improving your game and just have fun. Make some friends and run with them. Join a guild and run with them.

If your only choice is running instance matching with strangers, just know that some jerks will call you out for doing something wrong. It does NOT matter whether you're a healer tank or DPS. It happened to ALL classes. You suck it up and just learn your game as quickly as possible and maybe learn from your own horrible experience to treat other people with respect. So when you're the good player and you meet someone new, you treat him a little better because you already know how it's like being an inexperienced player.
DPS and tank get called out too when they suck. Why do healers cry about it so much?
I understand that many dungeons are very healer-dependent, and you guys carry players. But you chose that job.

When a DPS dies too often because he doesn't know how to dodge, people know that it's not the healer's fault and call out the DPS that doesn't know how to dodge. It's not rocket science. You can easily tell when the DPS sucks or when the healer sucks. I've been with a healer that takes ages to heal someone, do not charge MP or drop mp motes for lancer/sorcs (As a lancer, I can use up MP from 100% to 0% in seconds when I'm on Adrenaline Rush), do not use any buffs that can help DPS deal more dmg on the boss. All they do is literally watch other player's HP (Which by the way doesn't really drop if the DPS and tank are good), and say that they are bored??

I've haven't really seen anyone complimenting a DPS when they do a good job except someone pointing out high DPS if they use DPS meter. I've seen healers getting complimented at the end of a run plenty of times because they were good and they healed and resurrected party members. I praise healers when they do well. I treat them with respect until they prove that they aren't worthy.

You get the praise when you do well. Why is it so shocking that you get blamed when you don't do so well.
Dhrizzit wrote: »
Pls Fix Skills with ping dependent: Rapid Fire, Burst Fire, Avalanch etc...

Players with High ping cant play with these classes... And exploit in Lachelith RMHM still work. Fix it pls.

no, i did RMHM in the good way with near 280ms and its 100% possible do all this dungeon with that ping, i told the same in the past, but i learned to predict the mechs, and if i learned, its 100% possible for people who goes from 10 to 270 ms, remembering a good brawler in my server did it with 250ms so if i do with more and is possible and for him too its possible, its possible for all the people with less thaan 280ms

It's possible to clear dungeons with high ping, but that's not the point. You can do stuff with the high ping, but you will never be as good as the best people with low ping. You will never be able to play the class at the highest level possible because that high ping will always hold you back no matter how good you get. That's a fact. There is an undeniable fact that the strongest man will always be stronger than the strongest woman despite the individual differences. Similarly, the best player with low ping will always better than the best player with high ping.

Are you satisfied with simply being able to clear dungeons? If this stuff doesn't bother you, then maybe you're not competitive enough. If you don't use meter to see how you're doing compared to other brawlers (Because I know you're a brawlers), you're not competitive enough. That's fine. Not everyone needs to be tryhards. There are multiple ways to have fun. But, some people love competition and have fun that way.

Why do you think DPS meters are so popular? Clearing dungeons is not hard. Being able to clear the hardest dungeon is NOT that great of an achievement. Some people need more than that. That's why people start comparing how much damage they can deal. That's just another form of competition. You can call it e-peen or whatever (Using that logic, the Olympians have big rl-peen).

If I compete against a player and I lose because I don't have the skill, I can accept that. I can accept that the other player is just a better player. But if I know that I have a low ping and that player has a high ping (Or any other advantage). I start to wonder.. how the result would have turned out if we both were on an equal footing.

TERA staff start enforcing regulations on 3rd party program and one of them even mentioned "The spirit of the game". Well, the ping dependent skills and the [filtered] server lags destroy the spirit of the game too.
I agree with Kossploss. I did a lot of IMS and LFG runs over the last weekend and also after Valks came out and in almost every run, I experience lags and I hear people complaining about lags. I usually run in IMS or LFG for 5-6 hours a day during the prime time on 2 characters. During the runs, everything including my toon would suddenly freeze and can't use any skills, then about 2-3 seconds later, my character would use the skills that I had tried to use several seconds earlier and if that lag occurs during crucial moments (i.e. Lach doing swipe or front slam), my lancer most certainly gets hit by it. Then, after the pause, I look at my pt chat window, and 1-2 people would say something like "Lag..", "f*ing Lag" "sh* server", and everyone would agree. It looks like people experience the lags at the same time. After about 3:00AM EST, it becomes somewhat bearable. If anything, I'd say people that aren't experiencing any lags would be the minority now.

If I called my friends and guildmates to actually come to the forum to complain like I do, I think I should be able to fill this thread with 10-20 extra posts.
Priestic?

Priest + Mystic?

They gotta be a little more creative than that.
For some reason, giving extra rewards to tanks to persuade more people to play tanks kind of reminds me of affirmative action even though they aren't the same. Why should we entice people to pick up a tank class if they don't have what it takes to be a tank. The role requires people with certain temperament and skill.

After over 3 years of playing lancer, I decided to try DPS and yes, it's definitely less pressure. It also made me realize how important the tanking role is. I've seen 500k -900k difference in DPS's damage per second when playing with an inefficient tank and an efficient tank (Party Comp and Boss were same. Only the tank switched). After I saw a lancer using Adrenaline Rush before charging toward the boss and not even enraging it, my heart sank a little.

Tanks aren't just responsible for keeping the party alive by keeping boss's aggro. The main goal as a tank is maximizing DPS's damage on the boss and allowing the fight to be as short and safe as possible - that "includes" staying alive, good positioning, using buffs at the right time (If you simply use Adrenaline Rush or Guardian shout whenever they are off CD and you're not paying attention to whether the boss is enraged or whether your teammates have their own buffs ready, then you're not doing it right), keeping debuffs on the boss at all times, and dealing as much damage as possible.

Lancer is very easy to play and it's very easy to hold aggro, so it seems that many lancers are content with just "holding aggro" and "staying alive".
No, that's not it. They aren't even trying to play the class at a high level. Holding aggro, positioning boss and staying alive are GIVEN. If you play the lancer correctly, you must notice that you can out-DPS over half of the DPS's you meet in IMS/LFG, given that you have somewhat decent gear. In some cases, you should be able to go toe-to-toe with decent DPS's. Not to mention, the DPS's that know what they are doing will benefit from your well-times buffs, enrages, and 100% debuff upkeep and deal a huge amount of damage. Your own damage will help push the boss to the next enrage, which leads to more damage dealt by the party overall and shorter fight duration. The fight will be shorter, which leads to less deaths, and everyone's happy. In the past, I believed that a tank is doing a good job by just holding aggro and positioning the boss correct, but now, I stand corrected.

If tanks find their job boring, they need to realize that they can always find challenges by pushing themselves to play the class at the highest level. Lastly, I'm ok with the tank shortage and no extra reward is necessary. This role isn't for everyone. If you don't have what it takes to be a tank, just stick with DPS.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
I will try to make it in a way that can be better to debate.

Actually we have the awakening enchantment that is RGN but when you successfully enchant to the next lvl you get better stats for your gear, this can cost you several dozens or hundreds of thousands of golds, however you will get a better stat sooner or later.

With the jewellery we will have to use a ses to change the rerollable stats but the combinations are hundreds and you can repeat the same roll in the next reroll. Looking at this thing, you need diferent rolls on each class to get the optimal stats for doing more damage, tanking or healing.

There is not universal perfect rolls on this matter so the system makes uncertain how much you need to get what you want.

The diference between enchanting and rerolling is that with enchanting you don't know the chances so you get the feelling that everytime you fail the next time you will get the next lvl, however on jewellery you can get your chance to get the rolls you need and that is less than 1% each time you use a ses.

I think that is more demoralizing then the awakening enchantment current system.

Anyone can give your thoughts?

Yes, I agree that re-rolling accessories stats can be more unforgiving than the awakening enchantment.
If you don't see how the way I responded is unpleasant, that's probably because you are an unpleasant person yourself.

I never accused you of demanding compensation. But, if I really had to argue, you were expecting a compensation. You definitely wanted a compensation for all the SES you used (That compensation is a set of perfectly rolled accessories) and it's "demoralizing" because you didn't get that compensation. Even though you may not admit it yourself, you'd secretly want Devs to change the way SES works.

If it's such a small boost, why did you even waste that many SES? You probably came across a decent but imperfect rolls and you could've stopped there, and yet, you went for the perfect rolls and when you didn't get it, you just had to come to this toxic dump they call forum and QQ about it. What's the purpose of it? You just wanna vent? You want sympathy? You want EME to see it?

P.S - Feel free to throw your PC out the window.
It makes me laugh how people always QQ about the RNG on forum when they should already know about RNG.
It's just like other MMOs. TERA RNG is still a lot easier than a lot of other MMOs RNG.
I don't know why you're quitting because 4-year-old kids told you to quit.
@Rotomu
Not guaranteed because I've seen stagger failing once in a while but you're right, that stagger is op.
@kokoa
Nowadays, it's always about personal DPS. Being in the upper 10th percent on Moongourd gives people bragging rights. There are even hardcore guilds that only invite people from the top 10. So, many DPS and tanks try to go for the highest personal DPS possible. This is becoming the norm(or already has) and there isn't much you can do.

I also understand that solo healing LKHM while everyone takes damage is difficult. Feel free to tell them to be mindful of the situation but if they ignore you and keep taking damage recklessly, just do the best you can and if they die, they die. It is not your fault. Eventually one of the two things will happen 1. They will figure out that they need to dodge to live 2. You will somehow figure out how to still keep them alive.

And remember that gear =\= skill. I've seen some great players in Behemoth but I've seen some [filtered] players in Behemoth too. Many DPS classes nowadays require no brain. Truly skilled players can read the situation and know when to go all out and when not to.
I had the pleasure of reading a guide written by my friend and probably the best healer in TR and I also had the pleasure of tanking in his runs. This guy is able to carry 1-2 first timers that paint the floor in RMHM as solo healing priest and somehow manage to resurrect them God knows how many times they die and still clear the run. We may have 1-2 wipes in the process, but still clear it in the end.

"The one thing I believe that separates good healers from bad healers is mentality. Generally, if a teammate dies, it usually isn’t your fault. However, there is always something that you could’ve done better. If you notice that your team is dying a lot, step back and think about ways you could potentially reduce the number of party deaths. You always want to be proactive about healing, not reactive."

I respect the healers with this kind of mentality. As someone who took a support role that many people avoid (because they like to see high damage numbers and they hate responsibility), you're held to higher standards just like the tanks. Yes, I understand that there isn't anything you can do about people getting killed by one-shot mech and there are brain-dead players out there. But, instead of crying because they "blamed" you for their own incompetency and acting high and mighty, you can take this chance to be better at your class. Let's face it, there are just as many bad healers out there as there are bad DPS/tanks. But, I get it. You can go ahead and keep playing only with good tanks and DPS, so it looks like you're doing a terrific job.
Ayi wrote: »
If Slayers needed a revamp, surely it would have arrived in KTERA by now. But it hasn't, because KTERA's community is perfectly fine with where slayer as a class is going.

You never know what BHS will plan or announce. For all we know, they could announce a huge slayer revamp a week later.
BHS has been known to leave an underpowered class for a long while before releasing a revamp/buff for it .
You don't know how KTERA community feels about a class unless you play on their server or you can read their forum.
Slayer revamp is coming. It's called Valkyrie, aka Slayer 2.0.
Enjoy.
TERA has great variety of classes, esp. DPS classes. PvP is meh. Crafting is almost non-existent. I'd wait for Valkyrie and enjoy that OP class until the next OP class is released. You'll have a lot of fun that way.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
admonitu wrote: »
@ElinUsagi
you think because every company does it, it is OK for BHS to follow suit and do the same thing. So TERA turns out to be the same old garbage mmo like many others.

And I laugh at how you laugh at how people think.

Next time, try not to laugh when you're making a point. You can prove that you're smart without laughing at people you think is stupid or Wrong.

I am not the one making thousands of threads crying becuase new classes.

Congratulations? I guess.
And I laugh at how you think because every company does it, it is OK for BHS to follow suit and do the same thing.

And I laugh at how you laugh at how people think.

Next time, try not to laugh when you're making a point.
Dhrizzit wrote: »
always a game needs new classes, and updates from the old classes

this kind of things makes tera dont die.

Game needs new contents, yes, but it doesn't necessarily need new classes. In TERA, new classes are being added way too frequently and they are being added without updating any of the existing contents that need updates.

FoTM thing shouldn't even exist, but it does. I understand that perfect balance is impossible in an MMO like this, but this kind of imbalance is too much.
I agree that BHS has was more prompting problems on this game than making a new class every couple months, optimization being the most important. That being said they've already released info on the next class after the lunarwarrior or w/e it's called. The way they fix class imbalances is by making new classes that are even more broken or buffing reapers cause they're underpowered.

In my own personal opinion I don't really see adding new classes as a negative, some, ok most of the skills added are broken but it's fun to have variety. I have one of every class and they're all fun to play with every now and again thought it's impossible to gear them all unless you spend hours grinding or swipe.

I'd like another magic dps type class and another healer and then they can be done. Maybe a leather tankyish healer? It shouldn't have the best heals but can cc with melee type skills such as staggers and slows/stuns in the form of traps like archers instead of being lock on dependent like priest and mystic. This is not to be confused with some op healer class that can full combo 100-0 and heal themselves.
Someone else had the cool idea of making a new healer class that would basically be an archer type. They would have to aim at their teammates to heal them but instead of locking on they'd have to shoot them with an arrow type heal. Too much work to look for the post but the idea was cool.

Adding a new class to a game is like introducing a foreign species to an ecosystem. In real life, such introduction can have negative impact on the ecosystem. Since this is a virtual world created by humans, with careful planning and consideration, developers can minimize such negative impact. Guess what, BHS already proved to us how careless they are with handling classes in TERA. For example, look at Brawlers and Lancers. Brawlers first came with such overpowering skills that forced most lancers to either stop playing or switch to Brawler. Then, they nerfed Brawler's damage AFTER the damage has been done already to the game. Again, with very little consideration and planning, they added a new set of dungeons that force Brawler to stop attacking and lose Growing Fury and with little aggro generation, they struggle against high DPS classes. Gunners first came out as strong DPS, but now, they are subpar.

This pattern is going to repeat over and over as they keep releasing new classes. I am tired of it. It is like BHS saying "[filtered] YOU" to every player who spend time and money on their class. The character you dedicated countless number of hours, gold, and money is going to be rendered useless because of how overpowered new class is.

I like new ideas, Allibaaaba. But maybe if BHS can implement the new class and ideas without disrupting the current existing system too much, I'd appreciate it. But, obviously, that's not possible. And obviously, they already have difficulty managing and balancing current existing classes, let alone new ones. This is why they need to stop releasing new classes and screwing players.
I'm honestly getting tired of all these new classes. There are better things to focus on such as Optimization, Crafting, PvP, Class Balance. It seems that all BHS does is release new classes and dungeons (I'm OK with new dungeons though).

I can understand why they want to release a new class: Temporary influx of players that will spend money to put gear and costumes on it.
But, this is frustrating for some players and even for BHS, this could be detrimental.

1. TERA already has a variety of classes to choose from. Additional classes aren't really necessary anymore. As a matter of fact, some of these classes are rarely played because 90% of the playerbase wants FoTM classes (90% of all statistics are made up on the spot).
2. Having many classes also means that it will be that much harder to achieve class balance in PvE and PvP and whether you want to believe this or not, it is important.
3. When designing new dungeons or coming up with ideas for PvP, BHS now has to consider how the new features will affect ALL these classes they mindlessly created, possibly adding costs to development. Same thing when designing costumes.

Have they thought about how old players feel when the class they main is out-shined by these overpowered FoTM classes every 6 months? I guess making quick bucks is more important.
What about the ordeal old players have to go through again to obtain items because every effing item in this game is soulbound?
What about the new players? Many new players try each class before choosing one class to focus on. Since you don't really learn what a class is like until they reach max level, do you expect them to level every single character to 65 until they find a suitable class for them?

Just focus on improving what we already have. That alone should generate more than enough projects for everyone at BHS. Try impressing us by updating some of the current contents that really deserve updates. These flashy new classes are getting old.
Warrior has the potential to be the top god-tier DPS, but how many players out there actually actualize it? Warrior is a difficult class. On paper, it may look easy esp. because of the superior iFrame skills it provides and it IS easy if you play it casually doing mediocre DPS (There is nothing wrong with it. Who says everyone has to be tryhards. Enjoy the game :awesome: ).

However, if you want to be tryhard and min-max your warrior and see very high number on your DPS meter, you have some challenges to overcome.
1. Warrior has primary skills (Draw Blade, Rain of Blows, Scythe) and MANY filler skills (Combative Strike, Charging Slash, Rising Fury, Cascade of Stun, Traverse Cut, Poison Blade, Vortex Slash, Torrent of Blows (Some may argue), Reaping Slash, Backstab).
2. There are many possible ways to chain the skills in #1.

Having to manage all these skills comes with some complexity. Take other classes for example - let's say Lancer. With lancer, the only skills you manage are Shield Barrage, Spring Attack, Wallop, Onslaught, Shield Counter, Debilitate, Shield Bash, and Lockdown Blow. That is IT. If lancers can manage these skills and chain them well, they can achieve high DPS. Skill chaining for lancer is pretty straightforward as well.

Do you know why some people call Archers a brain-dead class? Archer only has a few skills to manage: RoA, Thunderbolt, Incendiary Arrow, Radiant Arrow, Rapid Fire, and Penetrating Arrow. There is NO chaining whatsoever. Whichever high-hitting skill comes off CD, you just use it.

Same with Berserker. They only manage 2-3 skills primarily.

Problem with warrior is that they have MANY possible ways to chain their skills and the way you chain them will ultimately decide whether you will be the god-tier or simply a mediocre warrior.

Warrior's main DPS comes from Scythe and the skill prioritization must focus on maximum Edge gained in the least amount of time. This prioritization list is from Essential Mana. And this is just BASIC. There are other advanced combos not listed here.

– Charging Slash→Blade Draw (3 Edge)
– Vortex Slash→Blade Draw (2 Edge) (After Evading)
– Combative Strike→Traverse Cut→Blade Draw (3 Edge)
– Poison Blade (2 Edge)
– Rising Fury→Blade Draw (3 Edge)
– Combative Strike→Rain of Blows→(Reaping Slash) (2 or 3 Edge)
– Combative Strike→Poison Blade (3 Edge)
– Combative Strike→Reaping Slash (2 Edge)
– Cascade of Stun→Rain of Blows (1 Edge)

If you were attacking a dummy that doesn't attack you back. I'm sure you can execute the basic combos flawlessly. But what if you are fighting a boss that actively attacks you and interrupt your perfect rotations? You have to dodge, run or follow a mech and you come back to a fight. How quickly can you see which skills are on CD and decide which combo to use next that will 1. Generate Edge and 2. Do the most possible Damage?

For example, randomly choosing Cascade of Stun -> Rain of Blows is a bad choice if your Charging Slash-> Blade Draw is available.

In addition, you have to manage Edge as well. Again from Essential Mana,
– At 3 Edge, you want to use one 3 Edge combo and two 2 Edge combos.
– At 4 Edge, you want to use three 2 Edge combos or two 3 Edge combos.
– At 5 Edge, you want to use 3 Edge combo and a 2 Edge Combo.
– At 6 Edge, you want to use two 2 Edge Combos.
– At 7 Edge you want to use one 3 Edge combo. At 8 Edge, you want to use one 2 Edge combo.

See how complicated warrior gameplay can be? Also how situation really dictates what combos warrior use for maximum efficiency?

TLDR: Warrior can be top-tier DPS but it's more complicated class than others. Ping matters. It's ok to just have fun and not worry about min-maxing.
Sorry for the off-topic, but you seem kind of rude to people that reply to your post. Maybe that's not your intention but the tone is kind of rude. Why are you telling people to go flame someone else as if they were flaming you? Why are you implying that dhrizzit was trolling? Granted drhrizzit's answer was not the best and his English isn't the best but I don't think he was trolling.

People are pointing out some possibilities and most of them may not be right. I think you need to chill out.
Good to know. I didn't have to waste half an hour to find out about this absurdity. I'll continue to farm SSNM.
@EllieChu
Thank you. How do I know which mount gives 2.0 and 1.5?
Do Crit Power passives stack if you get two different Dragon mounts?
Currently, I have a diamond dragon. If I want to have a chance to get two different crit power passives, which mount should I get?
I don't understand how you started out with crit power. Multiple tests proved that crit power is not as useful as power/crit factor way back in WHHM days. I would look up a guide on lancer before you roll stats on your gear since changing stats costs a lot of gold in this game.

If you are rich and want to do your own tests, kudos to you.
You can jump back into the game on your lancer. Lancer is a good class. You no longer have to stack aggro crystals because you can only equip one aggro crystal. Make sure you stack DPS crystals and stats. Your aggro will come from your DPS now.
Best at what?

I will compare lancer and brawler since they are primarily used as tanks.

In terms of survival, I would say lancer. Lancer's backstep with no cooldown allows them to avoid potential 1-shot attacks that boss may throw in succession

In terms of personal DPS, brawler beats lancer. Lancers with good gear can do decent damage, but the best brawler will always do more damage than lancer.

In terms of mob control, brawler beats lancer. Easily.


Now, the most important question is whether lancer or brawler contributes more to the party. Can brawlers make up for the lack of party buffs with their own personal DPS? Or does lancer's party buff make up for lancer's relatively low DPS? I think this depends on a number of factors.
1. Brawler's ability to keep Growing Fury and this depends on the type of boss as well
2. Are the DPS in lancer's party actually skilled and experienced enough to take advantage of lancer's Adrenaline Rush and Guardian Shout when they are up? Do they even know when the AD and GS are up so they pop their own buffs and burn the boss?
3. Is the lancer correctly timing Adrenaline Rush/Guardian Shout? Is he/she using AD/GS when the boss is enraged for maximum DPS?

I have no data, but I would say that on average good brawler's high DPS makes up for the lack of party buffs. Lancer's AD/GS have rather long cooldown.
If the fight is short because of the high party DPS, then lancer can use AD/GS only once or twice (The boss will be dead after that).
If the fight last long enough that lancer can use AD/GS 4+ times, the party DPS is too low to take advantage of AD/GS anyways.

Many DPS have dps meter and they like to see high personal DPS, so many of them prefer lancer over brawler.

Hope this helped.
admonitu wrote: »
@Margarethe
Agreed. I respect healers. They too have difficult job. In many dungeons except double healer or pro party, their job is more difficult than tank's job.

Their gear requirement may be lower but they are under a lot of pressure.

Healers are pretty hard to find too.

Healers honestly seem like a dime a dozen to me.

Interesting. I guess it depends on a number of factors, but on TR, when I observe typical LFGs, it usually goes like this

RMH N> ALL

A few minutes later

RMH N> T/M/P

A few minutes later

RMH N> T/M

A few minutes later

RMH N> T

..
...
....

Then disappears.

@Margarethe
Agreed. I respect healers. They too have difficult job. In many dungeons except double healer or pro party, their job is more difficult than tank's job.

Their gear requirement may be lower but they are under a lot of pressure.

Healers are pretty hard to find too.
Once they remove CD on Growing Fury, brawlers will do busted damage again.

We already have a variety of tank classes. There is only 2 healer classes compared to possible 4 tank classes. What more variety do you want?

Ask anyone who mains tank but also have DPS Alts. They would say that once they switch to DPS, it's much more "relaxing". Tanking puts much more pressure. It is often frustrating. The consequence of death as a tank is more severe. DPS don't give a [filtered] whether boss needs to be repositioned and take stealing Agro as a fun personal challenge. People that complain about tank shortage doesn't even respect the tank when they meet one.

I have to spend an arm and leg to get not just good weapon but armor too. After tanking with guile armor for a while, I bought imp chest and the difference is noticeable. When was the last time anyone acknowledge that tanks have more need for better gear and yield mats to them?

You have to be a bit masochist to play tank.
This has been brought up many times and yet no one has solution to this problem. Just give up. Make good tank friend.
LancerJiva wrote: »
Spacecats wrote: »
Yes, just like the other items listed as dungeon rewards. It's a possible drop from every dungeon listing a Circlet Fragment, but unlike VG rewards you aren't guaranteed that loot will appear.

That's actually a false statement. As lady's hanki and envy crystal are listed under RMHM, you say they are "possbile drops." They are guaranteed. 1 of each always drops in HM. Out of all my runs, I have always seen at least 1 of each mat. Making circlet fragments more rare then a hanki seems a bit much.. I think they should all be guaranteed to drop in all the listed dungeons.

I agree with this. Current state of materials we farm are (outside of events we've had), one per run only and we roll or pass on it. Circlet Fragments should be the same way.

At least everyone in the party gets 1 Circlet Fragment when it drops. Would you rather have the Fragment drop in every run but 5 people roll on it?
mollyya wrote: »
I am actually very glad they will remove LK and RM
troll spider in LK, Lilith's horrifying moan.
Boring RMNM because bosses have too much HP.
Ping dependant RMHM.
I hate them so much.

Troll Spider in LK - Agreed. I hate this boss with all my heart.
Lilith's Horrifying moan - Don't you find that a bit satisfying??
Ping Dependent RMHM - True
Zosmathyn wrote: »
Not a really bad story, but I LFG'd for LKNM because I was feeling bored and I'm not really in any guild/have as static, and so IM is usually the only way I can do dungeons. Thankfully they pop pretty quickly because I'm a Priest.

Anyways, there was this one time that I got in with a lancer, a ninja, a gunner, and a reaper. The most important part was the lancer, who, at the first boss - came in late and then ignored me when I said 'stop for buffs' because he had not received them. No, he runs in straight to the boss and starts. We all follow after him and I already know it's a bad idea.

He uses all his rookie and neo res on the first boss. Imagine dying that much.

Now the other three people were in a guild together, and the reaper was in VM gear - I didn't check to see which, but I recognized the weapon skin. The gunner was brand new, doing their first run, but they weren't too bad - only died a couple of times, and all for valid reasons. Because the tank died so much - literally, So Much - the boss was shifting aggro like crazy before resting on the reaper. No matter how many times I res'd, I kid you not, the tank just kept on dying within 30 seconds. I counted.

This continued to happen for the rest of the bosses. The thing was, I couldn't figure out what his problem was. He was in full Slaughter gear, which should have been enough, and he had all his appropriate crystals and vyrsks. I was honestly just so baffled how he took so much damage and died so quickly. In the end, I figured it was a lack of knowledge about the dungeon and a lack of skill that killed him. He even died during the mobs before Lilith. During Lilith he died a couple minutes in and I threw a res at him and forgot about him, honestly. He wasn't even keeping aggro while he was alive anyway - the reaper was doing all the work. I was practically heal-carrying him through the entire thing, and by extension, the rest of the party as well. I left him dead for most of the fight at Lilith, and then when he asked for a res I finally got him back up - he died within a minute. We were almost done anyways, so I let him be until after the fight.

Afterward the one of the people from the guild /w me and thanked me for gear carrying, which honestly made me very happy, because that usually doesn't happen at all.

There is nothing surprising about this. The dungeon bosses nowadays hit very hard. It's not like the old days when you could gear your tank in any +12 gear and expect to facetank. After they added +15 gear, they also increased dungeon boss damage so that even their normal hits take a good chunk of your life if you only have +12 armor. If the tank has full +15, then yes, he maybe able to facetank normal hits.

It's simple. That lancer needs to learn to block. The LKNM boss hits me (Full Guile) pretty hard too if I facetank, let alone a full Slaughter.
Currently, the gap between the Mid-Tier (Guile) and the Top Tier(Ambush) equipment is huge. New casual players without reliable static parties would spend weeks to months farming the materials to make Ambush and by the time they get the gear and fully enchant, the new patch comes out. +12 Guile can be accomplished too quickly and the casual players who already has +12 Guile but do not have the motivation or time to farm +15 Ambush will find the game boring very quickly. This proposed equipment should be significantly harder to obtain than Guile but not as hard as +15 Ambush.

The previous VM, +15 Imperator, already sits between Guile and Ambush, but it still requires the terrible awakening enchanting. New players aren't going to fully enchant equipment from the previous patch.

I'd like to see another equipment that is about equal to +15 Imperator. The goal isn't to make +15 Imperator obsolete in the current patch. Players that put effort into making +15 Imperator should be allowed to use it in the current patch.

Here are the properties of this equipment

1. Drops from RMHM and BoE at a fairly low rate (Similar to Regent gear in MCHM) - This will provide players incentive to run RMHM more. New players can either learn to clear RMHM or if they really wish, they can pay gold to get it.

2. Cannot be awakened - We already have Ambush which is the BiS and can be awakened. Hardcore players can still get the current VM that is significantly stronger than this equipment at +15

3. Weapon and Chest has one extra re-rollable stat and gloves has 3% Damage just like Ambush - This is what should close the gap between Guile and Ambush

4. Requires Tier 11 Feedstock to Enchant - FS Shortage is another problem to address.

5. Defense and Attack Modifiers could be similar to Guile or a bit higher, but not too high that it becomes significantly better than +15 Imperator again, the player that farmed +15 Imperator in the previous patch should still have a reason to use it in the current patch.

Of course, this will never happen. Not in this patch for sure, but how would you like this change in the future patches?
Kira98 wrote: »
Finally i did it :D
Enraged + Curse is a hurt in the *ss. but with a good heal and support of the DPS i done RMHM with Lancer Guile (150ms) :D

If I delayed a little, I did not have time to practice enough, but I finally completed it: D

Thanks for your tips and comments guys!
^^

Grats on the clear as a Guile lancer. Now, keep doing RMHM and get more practice :)

I've gotten to a point where I rarely die or even get hit on this boss except the Push-Back mechanics (When it targets me with stagger puddle and laser, I'm doomed if I can't pick up the mote fast enough or sometimes, I simply derp the laser part). But, I'm still working on it.

Here are more tips (Most of them you probably know already)
- Save Bravery Potion for the last boss. It helps a lot esp. if you have Guile.

- As Sylviette suggested, it's much better for Guile lancer to backstep the third swipe attack and get to the boss's 11 o'clock position. Couple reasons for this.

1. Boss's right side has a bit wider safe area for Front Wipe. If you dodge to your right (Boss's left side), then you must absolutely dodge to 1 o'clock position. If your backstep angle is wrong and you end up at like 2 o'clock, the possible Front Swipe after 3rd hand may hit you. If you sidestep to your left (Boss's right side), you have a bit more room for error. You are probably in the safe zone even at 10 o'clock.

2. For the Right-Hand Slam > Left-Hand Slam > Right-Hand Swipe > (Possible) Front Swipe, you can usually block the Hand slams without too much bleed, but the Right-Hand Swipe hits much harder than the hand slams and this is the attack that really bleeds through block. If you learn to dodge that part and get to the 11 o'clock position, it will help you IMMENSELY especially when you have the Curse. Have you heard of healers complaining about "babysitting" guile tanks because every attack hits through block? That originated because some Guile lancers just block the 3rd hit every time and even through block, that takes a chunk of their HP.

What I do is I block the first 2 Hand Slams, then immediately turn my camera and as I see the boss's right hand raised up for the third swipe, I backstep. I barely need healing this way.

- Sometimes, you can avoid the Front Slam by simply walking to the side. Not every time - if the boss is enraged and you are in the middle of attack animation, then you'd have to use backstep to cancel animation and avoid the Front Slam. But if you learn to correctly decide when to use backstep to avoid or simply walk to the side, you could possibly save some RE. Of course, this will take some experience. If the boss is not enraged and I'm not stuck in any animation, I can simply walk to my left when it does the Front Slam and completely avoid it. You don't want to risk it, then when in doubt, just use backstep.

- When the fight first starts, you'd probably want to get to the boss's face as quickly as possible. The boss starts with 2 possible moves. It can either do the Front Slam or it will fly to the edge of the room. If you aren't quick enough to get to her face, she will most certainly fly to near the entrance. But, if you quickly get to her by using Lunge and Barrage 2X Spring Attack, it will instead do the Front Slam and it will stay at the center.

- Some healers bait Double Laser by canceling resurrection. If the boss turns to her side and does the laser, your lancer may be a bit too close to the figureheads that spawn. Even if you are behind the figurehead, the laser may still hit you. When in doubt, walk away or backstep away from it (Healer's rez bait is really annoying and I wish they wouldn't do it unless they are really resurrecting a dead person). Usually, a Guile lancer can survive one laser with like 10% HP left, but if you have the curse, you'd probably die.

- Save Iron Will and Second Wind for the Soul Sphere mechanics. If I use Iron Will and I don't have Curse, I can take 2 Red Spheres and then if healers aren't quick enough, I can use Second Wind to get back to near full HP and take another Sphere. IF you have the curse (Either DPS/Healer didn't do their job and rotate curses or they are dead), then you'd die if you take the red sphere, but if you pop Iron Will, you can probably take one Red sphere with a little bit of HP left.

Roly wrote: »
#700k+ #200ms #Mid-Tier Gear #Dungeons at least RMNM i want a video that's all,,,,,,, no more talk.......don't come here saying i did that I do that just give me a proof in NA, and if you're so expert? PLEASE! explain us how to do it and we will appreciate, thanks!!!

There isn't much explaining to do. There's a number of factors that affect lancer's DPS.

1. Dual healer party. Obviously, with the combined buffs from mystic and priest, your DPS will be significantly higher.
2. Warrior in the party? With warrior's endurance debuff on the boss in addition to your own Debilitate, the DPS will be higher
3. Mystic has weapon to proc hurricane? It's a significant DPS boost.
4. Performance of the other 2 DPS - If your party can kill the boss quickly, your DPS is higher. Your DPS is the highest in the first 2-3 minutes and gradually decrease.
5. Do you have Dragon mount? This isn't as significant, but if the proc timing is right and you get a number of crits while procced, it will still boost your DPS somewhat.
6. Has the lancer been playing and practicing with 200+ ms ping on a regular basis?

If the conditions are just right, I don't see why a Guile lancer even with 200ms ping can't reach 700K on the first or second boss of RMNM and RMHM. In RL, we see people with disabilities doing some incredible stuff that even normal people can't do. Why is it so hard to believe that there may be someone out there, despite the high ping, can do 700K on certain bosses.
BKLYN wrote: »
And yes - sometimes I'm last on the DPS meter (usually better than healers, of course) and sometimes I'm first. I'm almost full Guile +12.

What do you exactly mean you are "usually better than healers"?? Sometimes, healers outDPS you?
We've all had some unpleasant experience in LFG/IMS aka PUG. Despite some of the horrible experience in PUGs, they aren't really that bad. I honestly don't understand some people who always uses static parties, gear up quickly and then complain that this game is too easy and it's boring. These are the same people that avoid IMS or even LFG as if they were plague and always stick with close friends/static/guilds. Now, there is nothing wrong with playing with just close friends/Static/Guild. If you are trying to get mats for gear, you will certainly need to run with people you know for reliable runs. But, it does not hurt to go outside your comfort zone and experience the game with less than skilled players and take pleasure in helping them through the run. Not everyone you meet will be pleasant and it's just like the real world, but the good people you meet and get to know will be rewarding and easily outweigh the discomfort of dealing with unpleasant people.

I used to be in a static party. But now, I try to avoid it as much as possible. I do have 2-3 friends I regularly party with, but I mostly utilize LFG or IMS to run Hard Modes (For RMHM, I don't use IMS, but use LFG. For all other Hard Modes, I use IMS/LFG). There are times when IMS parties or even some LFG parties can't clear the dungeon and YES, at times, it can be frustrating, but if we DO clear the dungeon after some wipes or even if we don't clear, I still get some sense of achievement from it - even from just helping the new/unskilled players.

On several occasions, I had the opportunity to pull 1 person out of his usual static and run the same dungeon with a completely new party. What surprises me is that often that person does NOT do really well in the new party and this is especially true for healers. When you always play in the static party, you are used to the same party composition, same playing styles of your party members and the benefits of voice chat system. Because static parties tend to kill the boss fairly quickly, some members do not really experience the mechanics long enough to actually "master" the dungeon. And if they are put in a PuG party all of a sudden, they can't adjust to the new party composition and possibly longer boss fights. Someone even told me that he didn't know certain boss did such and such mechanics because he's never seen the boss do it in his static party. That person simply blamed others for the failure and simply went back to his static party.

You may learn the dungeon and get better in it by playing with close friends and guild, but you truly master the dungeon by playing with PuGs. Play with unskilled players who die often and can't burn down the boss quickly enough. Wipe over and over until the party eventually clears or simply quit. In the process, you may find some cool tricks or you may find better ways to avoid certain mechanics. At the same time, you have the chance to teach some unskilled players. After that, you go back to your usual static and you'd be surprised just how much easier the run is. You will be much more skilled than people just playing in their comfort zone.



streetdog wrote: »
Well it might seem like that, but the attitute "i can't do this and that, so people think im trash" is complete BS.
Unless the party is uber trap and tank is getting no heals, not doing 1m/s at least is sign for the tank being trash. Nobody cares for [filtered] excuses

GG
MattOsiris wrote: »
streetdog wrote: »
No offense, but if you fail to do 1m/s as tank, you are trash.

im in guile i cant possible do that as a lancer...

Don't worry. People shouldn't really judge you based on your DPS as lancer. Brawlers - Maybe and that's only because they are DPS tanks. Even so, I wouldn't go as far as to harass Brawler for his low DPS as long as he can hold threat relatively well. People need to learn to be thankful that they even have a tank in their party, let alone harass tank for low DPS. Same goes for healers too. Show some respect to tanks and healers for playing such undesired classes. You think I'm wrong? Why do you think most LFGs wait for Tank or Healer?

Tanks stand in front of the boss (and lose extra crit power and crit chance by just being in front), mitigate damage, and allow the DPS to hit the back. We provide endurance debuff so people can do more damage. In case of lancer, we provide party buffs to raise the party's damage. WHAT MORE DO YOU [filtered] WANT FROM TANKS!!!

Healers have to pay attention to both the boss attacks and people's HP. Tanks and healers play such thankless job that requires a lot of concentration and don't you [filtered] dare talk [filtered] to us.

I'm a full Guile lancer too and the highest I've gotten is 800K/s on second boss of RMHM. If I try hard, use all consumables, replace threat crystal, and have mystic/priest/warrior, hurricane, I may barely reach 900k or close to 1M, but that's pretty much it for me. Never seen myself do over 1M/s and honestly, never really tried. After all, WHY SHOULD I, this is what DPS classes are for. Are DPS classes so [filtered] incompetent that tanks have to do high damage too?
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