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Posts by Zerea
Can we not?

My sorc has been using the same title for over 4 years now, one that went legacy about 3 years ago and is impossible to equip anymore. However because I've never changed titles it still displays. I'm very fond of this title and it's become a core part of my character's identity. Everybody I know associates me with my title and it's become a joke among friends for them to try to get me to switch to another title to show them what it looks like, knowing full well I could never change it back. I would be extremely saddened come the eventual sorc Apex changes that I would lose such an integral part of my character of over 4 years.

I see no point in forcing a title change at all. Let people choose if they want to switch or not, like with every other title in the game. Hope to see this get changed before sorc changes or I might have a dilemma on my hands.
Sunflare wrote: »
Zerea wrote: »
Pretty solid video. My only complaint is how you aren't keeping track of the normal targetting attack and most times you end up turning boss nearly 90 degrees when he turns to target you.
Thanks! :)

That is correct indeed because I don't know whether the regular tracking bomb is timed at all and if it targets only the person furthest away in general. I've seen it target people at melee range and at random intervals. Maybe I should've looked it up before uploading the vid indeed.

I just did a last boss run and it kept targeting an archer while he was at melee range.
The first one will come anywhere from ~9:25-9:35 and every 1:40-2:00 afterwards (almost always favoring close to the 2:00 end of that range) and almost always immediately precedes a shield which is on an identical timer (the first one being at ~8:00). The reason for the large variation in timing is because the boss is not consistent based on if the time rolls over during another attack and I've seen a couple cases of Target>S-Bomb>Shield as opposed to the typical Target>Shield. But generally speaking if you start heading towards the front at ~8:10, ~6:10, etc... You can expect the target to either occur shortly after the 00 mark or you at least know mentally the attack is "queued up" and the boss just needs to empty his attack queue.

As for apparently targeting melee range people, you are either too far or they are farther from the boss than you. If you are greater than ~22m from the boss you do not exist to the targeting mechanic and it will instead target the next farthest. Otherwise, the ranged DPS are taking too much space and need to be hugging closer/you need to be farther. Most of the times that this happens to me is when a target immediately follows an S Bomb and my healer doesn't immediately back up after dodging. Depending on how they chose to dodge the S we'll be at practically the same safe range temporarily and that's just enough to boss to target me over them.
Come Awakening patch this will be our DPS ranking when each class is played optimally.

Zerk>Warrior>Slayer>>>>>>>>>Valk>Reaper/Archer>>>>Gunner>Sorc>Ninja

You should still play Sorc if you genuinely enjoy the class. But if something like this will bother you as you get better and better at the class, it might be something to reconsider. At the very least all non-awakened classes will be giving the whole party a 14.5% damage buff, so just consider yourself a support DPS. :shrug:
Ammutseba wrote: »
streetdog wrote: »
Sorcs are not generally a good idea to pick if you care that much for dps as they can rarely excel in dps race and besides that they perform decently only if they are in BiS or close to BiS - not criting sorc is a sad thing to play.

Yosha's guide is still valid up to date for general sorcs.

For min/max players who are trying to break speed records in hard mode dungeons, I would agree do to the RNG nature of Meteor Strike. However, for instance matching runs, I consistently out DPS other players. Even when I'm out DPS'd, the difference in DPS isn't that significant and is usually do to the difference in gear. I think the cliche "play the class you like" is relevant. Skill generally outweighs class chosen when talking about performance.

I also recommend looking at Yosha's guide as mentioned above. It's very detailed and should answer a lot of your questions. If you want to get an idea of the DPS and rotations, Yosha also does some youtube videos that you can check out.

For stats, it's about building up crit factor. Once you get around the ~300 range, you can play around a little with speed vs. power.

I haven't had any problems running RK-9, etc., so you should be fine when you're ready to run them. Starting out, running RG is good dungeon (for both gold and experience). As always, if you can run with a group of people that aren't complete jerks, that makes things a lot more enjoyable.

Meteor Strike RNG is not the problem with Sorc DPS. Low numbers is the problem with Sorc DPS. I spend all day min/maxing sorc and optimizing my play so trust me when I say that's the only reason for low DPS. When an average run is at least 85% crit on Meteor/Void/Lightning Strike, crits aren't the problem, base damage is the problem.

Doesn't matter how perfect I play or how flawless I watch my cooldowns to perfectly optimize my HPM, a Zerk will still do 1m more dps than me because their base damage makes them output far more raw damage. It says something big when a flawless run for me on RKEM is 2.6m DPS and a Zerk with 4 deaths still breaks 3m.

But this only applies to ultra end-game min/maxing. For a good chunk of the playerbase this is mostly irrelevant.
Pretty solid video. My only complaint is how you aren't keeping track of the normal targetting attack and most times you end up turning boss nearly 90 degrees when he turns to target you. You do a great job going to the front for res baits but don't do it for the normal targets.

Other than that, good job. You seem to have a strong grasp of what's important and hopefully learning healers will find it helpful.
So with HTML being disabled in-game for the time being as a precautionary measure against the recent security vulnerability, this came with the consequence of also not allowing quicklinks in chat to be clicked. Mainly this means no clicking on linked items in chat, and also no clicking on Points of Interest.

While this is at most mildly inconvenient, with the upcoming Overworld BAM Spawn event I've just realized that not being able to share PoIs of BAM spawn locations is going to make killing these BAMs in an efficient manner extremely difficult for all people involved. Not only this, it opens the floodgates for countless fake BAM spawn reports that do nothing but waste time and may result in lost loot due to people going on wild goose chases. Seeing multiple people link the same PoI in Global chat was a solid indicator of a legitimate spawn, but without that measure of verification we're all going to be running around like headless chickens trying to find the legitimate spawns while also attempting to communicate the location of these valid spawns to everyone.

Any plans for some sort of remedy to this situation? Having no way to effectively communicate the locations of BAMs is going to turn an otherwise enjoyable and profitable event into a giant headache with countless missed BAM kills due to confusion and trolls.
R63TFLHPYD wrote: »
This coming weekend.
Strong correction*

It is NOT double/triple drops. It is double/triple CHANCE to drop only CERTAIN items.

Judging by the quality of the last two events we've had in Kyra's and this joke of a Dungeon Highlight, I wouldn't get your hopes up for this one either. I think EmE are going for the trifecta of garbage events.
The event already goes until Tuesday at maintenance.

But it's utter garbage so I couldn't care less if they took it away now.
HAAYAAKD43 wrote: »
what about town teleport scrolls ? mail them

Just teleports you to the "town" on the island.
Pages wrote: »
Have you tried Guild summon?

It functions same as Party Teleport from Healers.
As some friends and I discovered today, any and all teleports off the island DO NOT work and it will stop you from completing the teleport even at level 65. Village Atlas, Travel Journal, Friend Summon, Party Summon (Both from Tier Rewards and Priest/Mystic), Velik's Horn, Vanguard teleports, IMS Queuing and leaving (IMS is blocked), and Dungeon Teleport Scrolls are all stopped.

The only way off the island is using the flight master to Velika AFTER completing the tutorial story questline. This means if you're on an alt character that was powerleveled and skipped tutorial island before the patch, you will be forced to complete it and take the flight to Velika.

Why this change was made is questionable at best for low-level players. The fact that a max level character is blocked from literally all possible avenues is actually ridiculously stupid and forcing them to do a tutorial questline to leave the island is absurd. It's comical watching my friend on his +9 High Tier Zerk having to do the tutorial questline.

So be aware if for any reason you find yourself wanting to teleport to the island, you WILL have to fly off.
Double post sorry
Some of us who mastered the profession looked, but it's kinda [filtered]. You have to dismantle T4 etching to get the superior crystal to craft another T4, which is LOL. Oh, did I forget to mention you need 5 superior crystals for one try, that's 5 T4 etching that you're gonna need to dismantle. There's need to be another way of obtaining them.

The crystals are the easiest part, they're drowning in them on the broker and not a single one has been bought out the entire patch. There's literally no recent history.

The more pressing matter is the 2m+ in Titan's mats.
So uh not sure if anybody has looked into yet but a friend broke down the materials required for crafting a single Tier 4 Etching.

3hlFlSW.png

Assuming the amount of materials even existed at lowest price
Titan's Fire: 199g ea
Titan's Peace: 90g ea
Titan's Storm: 1400g ea
Titan's Earth: 1000g ea
Engraver's Kit: 21g ea
.
.
.
Superior Etching Box: 13k ea
:shrug:
Well first off this thread is utterly pointless because EME has no developers to do anything even if they wanted to, which they do not. BHS doesn't care about imbalance caused by lack of talents either, and also because they have no way of replicating the talent system even if they did.

But you seem to be getting rather upset over the fact you're getting told to swap to another class, which brings up two things.

1. You're a bad Ninja
2. You really need to find better friends to play with.

If I'm being told regularly to switch off my main to another class that should tell me something very important about my performance on that class and the expectations of the people I'm running with. Why do you keep playing with people who regularly tell you to your face that you're not good enough to run with them? The class isn't doing great, but it's perfectly fine if you play it well.

If you go back and check those fancy Moongourd logs you seem to be very fond of looking at, you'll see quite a few parses with Ninjas under four minutes. You'd think maybe you would comb through them and see what they're doing differently that you're not. I wouldn't be that surprised to learn a few of those are still in Ambush. You'd think that maybe instead of whining on the forums about how your class is awful, you'd try everything in your power to be the best Ninja you could possibly be instead of crapping out early and blaming it on the class.

So please tell me more about how you're not being invited into the run just because you're a Ninja. You're not getting any sympathy from anybody who's actually put time and effort into becoming very good at their class, because that's the one thing you haven't done.
In nearly four years of Tera I've never seen anyone, or myself, be excluded solely because of their class. The ONLY time people get ignored from runs is when they've run with you or someone from your guild and had bad experiences and don't wish for repeats.

As for Harrowhold, DPS should be your last priority at all in that dungeon. People actually bringing up individual DPS in Harrowhold can leap out of a window because it's so freaking pointless. You should only be focusing on staying alive and burning past health % thresholds when necessary. You're also given a 20k+ Base Damage skill to use on demand for first shield, so you're always going to be on a hold leg should your raid decide to utilize that strategy. Quit thinking of it as "Man Ninja is such a bad class all I get to do is hold Avalanche for shields while every other 'real' dps class gets to do front paw dps.." Your class was gifted with an incredibly strong burst and your raid found a great use of it, embrace it.

If you're being denied from parse runs, this means you're asking to run with "friends" who've run with you in the past and realize you're not a good enough Ninja to be considered for the party. You'll never get turned down from an LFG as long as you +15 and Skilled unless people recognize your name and have had bad runs with you before. The question you should be asking yourself is, "Why are my 'friends' not letting me into their VSHM runs?" You'd be told the same on any class if you're attempting to do a proper parse run, because every class has an expected DPS output at the top tier and not meeting it is going to get you denied.

If you haven't been able to figure it out by now OP, you're not being denied from runs because you're a Ninja. You're being denied because you're a bad player who happens to play Ninja. Instead of focusing on other people's Moongourd logs you should be paying far more attention to your own. Your class is not a crutch for your own bad play.

This isn't something I say often, but EME is correct in this instance. They've completely flooded the market. Many hardcore players would literally have millions of tokens with the ktera rates, perhaps even tens of millions. The new rates are balanced around NA's completely ridiculous economy, as they should be.

Except they've literally never done this for any previous patch in the last four years. They couldn't care less how much the long-term players prepare and over-prepare for the next patch, but this patch it's not okay? And then not tell anybody?

I don't buy it.
Not a huge fan of the whole "Let's have the player base economically prepare for one of the biggest patches in history based on data we're going to change a week and a half before it releases without telling ANYBODY" thing you guys decided on.

Are you trying to [filtered] off your remaining players or...?
I believe I've already heard word that the idea was scrapped.

Ignoring that entirely, the game runs like a [filtered] potato on even high-end machines. It's horribly optimized relative to any other MMO and there's no way in [filtered] a console has the power to run TERA.
Possums wrote: »
It would be nice if they did what BnS did during its launch where it would filter players into different servers to keep all servers (mostly) evenly populated.

Except TERA isn't a freshly launched game. It's been F2P for years now and not practical to pull something like that. The servers have already developed their own communities and guilds and personalities. It's much too late for that.
Looks like I'm well on the way to joining this group. 50 fails later, still +12. I get it, it's rng, but seriously, I feel like I'm just being snubbed. There should just be a $50 instant +15.

So you're basically saying anybody who can pay 150-200k gold equivalent gets a free +15?

...
jeeves702 wrote: »
PeDoodly wrote: »
Calling it now, but don't expect them to be changed. They will launch the patch with vanilla drops, probably with some reasoning like "We want to see how it will affect the economy before making preemptive changes!"

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me. They have a very active history of turning a blind eye to pressing issues like this until the damage has already been done.

I want to be surprised and proven wrong, I really do, but i'm really not holding my fingers on it with how "quiet" they have been about it. The patch is literally around the corner and nothing has been said since Spacecat's post. No words say quite a lot about the situation.

Yeah im definitly hoping for some changes in the drops, and hey maybe with the new super amazing and important new player council ,we might actually get reasonable drops BEFORE 500 people quit the game out of boredom!

All 500 left? I think that's too long to wait imo. Bold strategy though.
NotLikeThis
FeelsBadMan. Everybody stuck at 0 hp and not dead. Then dead 60 seconds later. Then takes two minutes to revive. Then alt-f4 and try to log back in and stuck on character selection.

RIP poor hamsters.
Just raw stats from comparing +12 to +12, Slaughter is far and away the better option.

Starfall however does have the two extra damage lines that are often overlooked, causing +15 to be superior. Basically it's either +15 SF or bust. +12-+14 just don't really cut it and you're better off with Slaughter.
saddsasd wrote: »
Zerea wrote: »
First off. Dps/s? Damage per second/per second?

Secondly-What boss? What party composition? Were endurance debuffs kept up constantly? Constant energy stars? Mystic in party? Double healer? Do you have all your glyphs? What consumables are being used? Nocteniums? Canephora? Food buffs? Bravery? Was it a bad run with no crits? Was it a good run with lots of crits? Are you good?

All of these majorly factor into "expected" DPS. Particularly that last one.

But more importantly than just giving you a number to shoot for, just focus on your dps relative to the other members in your party. If there's only 50-100k or less separating you from most of the other party members, you're probably doing just fine. Find out what other DPS classes are running +12 Slaughter so you know you have equal gear and compare your DPS. If another class in Slaughter is majorly outdpsing you, like two or three times your DPS, then you're probably doing stuff wrong and should look into it. Some classes will outdps you more than others, based on personal player skill and the strength of the class itself.

A good stat to look into is the percentage of boss damage you did. If you're doing less than 10% of the boss's HP every fight, you need to step it up a notch.

Above all, focus on improving yourself. Record yourself if it helps and watch it back, always keep a meter running so you know how you're doing. Get a feel for your usual DPS on certain bosses.

And don't be a tool and mock others for low dps. It's a game, not a competition.

Hope u got orgasm when u blamed me I wrote dps/s meaning dmg/s. Such wow.
If i used any consumables i would inform don't you think? And i asked about average. Not best dps. Ffs why all of you have to be so rude. I asked for dps of Slayer itself. Alone. Without extra consumables apart from standard niveots, charms and max crit as i mentioned.

I don't think I was rude at all past my first sentence, and even then it was a passing comment.

I asked necessary questions in order to get a feel for what kind of run you were looking at. TERA is not so one-dimensional that I can just give you a number for your class and not have other factors affect that number. If you knew all those other factors affected DPS then you should've said in your main post that you were either using or not using consummables, what party comp you had, what boss, what glyphs you had, what gear rolls, etc... DPS can double or triple based on those factors, so I think they're pretty important to include, don't you think?

I tried giving you good advice and tips on how to improve yourself as a player but if you wanna be stubborn and confrontational about it I won't bother. You're just being naive and ignorant if you think I can spit out a number and have it be correct in every situation.

Oh and to actually contribute to the thread - 400k/s is pathetic DPS on 90% of fights for any established Slayer.
First off. Dps/s? Damage per second/per second?

Secondly-What boss? What party composition? Were endurance debuffs kept up constantly? Constant energy stars? Mystic in party? Double healer? Do you have all your glyphs? What consumables are being used? Nocteniums? Canephora? Food buffs? Bravery? Was it a bad run with no crits? Was it a good run with lots of crits? Are you good?

All of these majorly factor into "expected" DPS. Particularly that last one.

But more importantly than just giving you a number to shoot for, just focus on your dps relative to the other members in your party. If there's only 50-100k or less separating you from most of the other party members, you're probably doing just fine. Find out what other DPS classes are running +12 Slaughter so you know you have equal gear and compare your DPS. If another class in Slaughter is majorly outdpsing you, like two or three times your DPS, then you're probably doing stuff wrong and should look into it. Some classes will outdps you more than others, based on personal player skill and the strength of the class itself.

A good stat to look into is the percentage of boss damage you did. If you're doing less than 10% of the boss's HP every fight, you need to step it up a notch.

Above all, focus on improving yourself. Record yourself if it helps and watch it back, always keep a meter running so you know how you're doing. Get a feel for your usual DPS on certain bosses.

And don't be a tool and mock others for low dps. It's a game, not a competition.
What server are you people playing on that has increased alk prices? It's literally been the same price for two weeks on MT.
All these people complaining about alkahest going up and it's been 49-50g since Ninja patch on MT. Alk staying the same and feedstock going down is a win for me.

dinners wrote: »
Ayi wrote: »
This is exactly why I save all my gold by selling t9 feed/MWA and end up buying a fully +15 starfall piece.

Yeah, but you can't sell it back. Liberation scroll doesn't work on 2nd time. I got lucky with +15 disc. But,I have failed so many time at +14 brawler. People are selling +15 SF for 350k~500k. So, if someone get +15 SF under 700k, then I think, they didn't actually spend too much gold. I don't wanna even try new +15 under this short feedstock situation.

Must be nice on your server. +15 SF are 500-750k+ on MT.
Anybody Still Around? 03/29/2016, 10:08 PM Zerea
I've been greatly enjoying this discussion so far.

Keep it up peeps, I love to hear all your thoughts on Sorc.
Yeah this usually happens when the patch's "hard" dungeon pops out. You got about a week where everybody is still Rookie and Skilled isn't mandatory, then after that it's Skilled or gtfo.

Basically your best bet is joining a nice guild to teach you. Once you hit skilled you can LFG anything.
Anybody Still Around? 03/27/2016, 03:14 AM Zerea
PumpedMT on 03/26/2016, 01:18 PM - view
ohh yeah since you're referring to PvE i 100% agree. Class sucks at that

Yeah I suppose I shoulda made that clear in first post. This is about PvE.

Much to be desired <.<
Anybody Still Around? 03/24/2016, 06:12 AM Zerea
Ah grab the stick out of your [filtered]. I'm just trying to have fun with this.
Anybody Still Around? 03/24/2016, 04:37 AM Zerea
IxPath on 03/24/2016, 04:22 AM - view
Hi

*wave*
Anybody Still Around? 03/24/2016, 03:34 AM Zerea
I think most of us can agree that Sorcs aren't in a particularly good spot at the moment, for reasons too numerous to count.

My question is, anybody still play their sorc? The number of my sorc friends online seems to get lower and lower every week and a good friend that I competed with regularly has recently sold his SF disc and rerolling to another class :(.

So who's still sticking with the garbage?
OutlanderZOR on 03/22/2016, 05:14 PM - view
Sorcs rotation is really complex compared to newer classes, thats the main problem.

If they want to buff it so the average player can deal decent amount of dps with it they either have to overbuff the class so its OP without even trying or dumb it down removing all pre-requisites for FB cast and make BoC like a toggle skill or something like that.

Besides warrior that needs to build edge for Scythe, sorcs FB is one of the hardest skill to set up correctly and it requires a rotation with perfect sync with the fight. It needs to be buffed 3 times (BoC, Nova and OC) before being casted, while most classes, especially new ones, can cast their skill straight away or after a chain skill, usually with 200%/300% crit chance glyphs, no animation lock whatsoever and easy to chain iframes.

This is overwhelming for any new players and unfair if you're veteran sorc, since you have to play much better than gunners/reapers/brawlers and still end up being the lowest dps.

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup. Couldn't agree more. Last patch rotation was super noob friendly, low mana cost, solid crit chance, and you only needed to rely on one filler skill to crit instead of 4...

They gave us a buff on paper, but this current rotation is complete garbage and on top of that, still nothing crits. No surprise that every sorc friend I talk to hates the class and wants to reroll. Right now we're in a similar situation we were in on Gunner release. Class has a ridiculous skill floor so it alienates new players, and even if you know how to play you still can't even compare to other classes.
neoazriel on 03/16/2016, 01:40 PM - view
Oh, don't worry about that, I know they were terrible. I only did like 350k DPS or so, but it was just funny because one of the reapers actually said something along the lines of, "good thing you had my dps" when he did less than everyone else.

I just like remembering it when I get ignored in favour of a +15 gunner for a +15 priest/mystic/brawler/gunner LFG. It helps with the salt. : (

Still haven't gotten around to rerolling my disc, but I'm hoping I'll get a small DPS boost at least. Sucks having to settle for ephemeral T1 keen etchings, but beggars can't be choosers.

Yeah I understand the feeling, it happens. Even with +15 and Skilled in everything I still get turned down by parties simply because stronger classes applied before me.

At least that's what I keep telling myself :(
neoazriel on 03/15/2016, 02:10 PM - view
Well, that explains why my damage always seems to fall short. Unfortunately I can't afford +15 at the moment, and I half don't want to buy it as an act of protest because I never felt it was a good idea to introduce it. It does bug me though when people pass on me for a +15 user, but man did it feel good to outdps +15 reapers in TSHM once.

I think the highest my DPS ever got was around 550k in FINM on a single good run that I had.

I was running the crit line simply because T2/T3 etchings are still unreasonably expensive, but I'll take your word for the extra enraged line instead. I'd like to have the aspd or cdr rolls, but the new rotation actually fits into one BoC with a nostrum. I'm sure the BoC downtime is where the aspd and cdr come in handy though.

Anyway, thanks for your help. o/

You do fine for a +12 sorc. And I don't want to burst your bubble, but the only reason you out dpsed those reapers was because they were garbage. There's no possible way you could ever outdps a +15 reaper that was at least remotely competent. A good +15 reaper does a solid 30-35% more DPS than I do, and I have +15 Lucid.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade and call you garbage, but the only scenario you will ever beat a +15 Reaper is when they're awful.

Just don't let it get to your head. Do the best you can do with your class.
Devilzweed on 03/15/2016, 09:06 AM - view
Zerea bosses in DS have low crit res

Bah then my friends lied to me. I haven't run uppers myself so I took their word for it. That explains everything if that + lucky run.
Edited by: Zerea less than a minute ago
sestina on 03/14/2016, 01:51 PM - view
It can go higher if you stop being a whiny negative human being and the crit goddess will shine upon your poor soul.

Also hitting behind the monster and taking advantage of Nova and Arcane Pulse helps too. :^)

If you're gonna keep patronizing me I'm just gonna stop replying.

I can pull off fancy rotation after fancy rotation making sure all my big hit skills are under +75 crit rate, but at the end of the day I still don't crit because the game says so.

And no it doesn't go higher. Average runs are 45%, slightly above 50% if I get a lucky fight.
sestina on 03/14/2016, 08:02 AM - view
Yeah...... that is staged man. There's no way with that much crit factor that you would crit way less than that. I'm sure all these bad Sorc will come in here agreeing with you cause they suck at playing it but I want to see video proof of your playing and see what your problem is.

Unless you did just one run and ended up taking that single dps result way too seriously.

The fact I could even get those results at all tells you there's a problem.

On a typical run my crit chance is at 44-45%. With mystic.
The only thing sorcs need right now in PvE is crit chance. We have the lowest overall crit chance of any other DPS class and it really shows in this latest patch. If I pull off a fancy rotation back to back while dodging one shot mechanics and constantly positioning at the back, I better be rewarded for it. Doing all this and having nothing crit is just a giant slap in the face.

It's incredibly disheartening when the only reason people out dps me is because their class crits more than I do. If I play a glass cannon class and put myself in high risk situations, I want my stuff to crit.

I can live with an obnoxious rotation, I can live with being one shot because of mistakes, I can live with MP issues, just give me some god damn crit chance.
neoazriel on 03/13/2016, 10:51 AM - view
Well, from where I stand, a harder to play class should be better rewarded, that's all.

I'm with you on the not critting enough. My DPS meter readings are always pathetic and I have no idea where Yosha's numbers came from. That's why I'm so annoyed by those 20% crit chance glyphs, they don't do anything but you can't not put points into them.

Actually, while we're on the topic, I never hit anywhere near your numbers despite having the proper rotation down. I've only got the +12 DN set, but is the difference between +12 and +15 that huge? On average my white damage is about 400k, and crits are about 2.8m in FIHM. The highest I can remember hitting is around 5.2m in DS, but that doesn't really count.

My rolls on the DN disc are:
- Increase crit factor by 18
- Increase damage by 6%
- Increases damage 9.3% when attacking enraged monsters
- Increases damage by 6.9% when attacking from behind

I've got about +194 crit rate at the moment including the disc's crit line. I'm not sure if I should swap that line out for another enraged line or something else. I'd appreciate any advice.


Yes the difference between +12 and +15 is massive. Your white damage is 400k, mine is 650k+ depending on endurance debuffs. My white damage frequently is over 700k in FIHM, and has even gone into 1m+ depending on the circumstances.

And yes you should absolutely drop the crit rate for a second enraged line. It's a garbage line anyway and the extra enraged damage is massive. Yosha has a sorcerer profile on his youtube, just copy everything there in terms of rolls and you'll be set.
neoazriel on 03/12/2016, 06:28 PM - view
Yea, I noticed our base damages, but the problem is (as I'm sure you're aware), most of the DPS comes from crits. I'd rather have medium consistent crits rather than these huge non-existent crits. Anyway, as for us being top DPS, you sound like that'd be a problem. I for one think that we're a pretty high risk class as is, so I don't see anything wrong with us being top dps in PVE, especially considering the PVP nerfs we've gotten.

Yea, the passive isn't a big deal now that I've thought about it.

I was just chipping in my two cents, that's all. : p

Meh Sorcs had a nice reign at the top back in VM2 days. They've been in a good spot recently, although this latest patch is a bit wonky. Good play brings a respectable placement in DPS ranking, poor play ranks you at the bottom.

I still feel sorcs don't crit enough, even with the new glyph and running with Mystics my crit chance hovers between 45-50% overall, and frequently my highest hitting skills are in their 30s. Not sure how we're supposed to keep up with everybody else when I have a 40% crit chance on a skill that varies between 800k and 7m.

If anyone has seen Yoshas post with his DPS charts showing 75-80% Fireblast crit chance, that just baffles me completely. I simply don't understand how that's possible unless DS bosses have lower crit resist than say FIHM ones.
neoazriel on 03/11/2016, 01:13 PM - view
Oh hay guise, lookie hear!

http://www.essentialmana.com/news/future-class-balance-changes/

Another set of changes...I really want to know why they bother giving us these garbage 20% crit chance glyphs. Are they afraid of making sorcerers overpowered or something? And I love how they've "noticed" that archers are using super huge crit builds and gave them a +100% crit rate passive, but meanwhile, we do the same thing and don't get jack. e_e;

I just don't get BHS's thought process or logic at all.

Also, about Mana Infusion, personally, I use it during a mechanic where I can afford to sit still if there's nothing for me to do, otherwise Mana Siphon/Mana Volley all the way.


Actually exactly that. Sorcs have INSANE base damages on their skills so they're very tentative when giving us crit chance because if we had the same crit chance as say Reapers then we'd be top DPS. I tend to notice that during the DS floors where you have near 100% crit chance, I'm almost always top DPS, even vs Lucid Brawlers.

And unless this is a new precedent, the new Archer skills is just gonna on the base crit rate, so something like 50-60 crit rate? Big whoop, they get ~5% more crits. Other wise they'll be sitting at ~550 crit factor? Ridiculous.

And of course Mana Infusion is fine when waiting for transition phases, our discussion was mostly on using Mana Infusion mid rotation when you could be using better things.
Moolgogi on 03/09/2016, 05:39 PM - view
That requires that you have dyads (expensive, non-standard gear, much like +15. Call it standard if you like, some people will disagree with you.) AND it requires that your healer is competent. (Relying on others. Call this standard also if you like, but that's a really low blow to those that do not have this advantage.) Of course, I appreciate a good healer as much as anyone else. I just do not always have that luxury. Sometimes, I use matchmaking for dungeons. Please remember to be thankful if you have good friends to play with. That's also like saying you will always be attacking from behind. No matter how much skill you have, if your tank is unable to hold aggro, the boss will turn around and face you. Of course you can get through the boss if that happens, but you only have so many options to do this, especially if you are taking aggro very often. Mana Siphon is also a dangerous cast animation that can only be canceled with other skills. Also, you don't need to have Burst of Celerity in order to deal damage or cast spells. You should use it as often as possible and is practical, because it's what makes long cast spells more viable to use as DPS skills, but some skills benefit more from it than others. One of those skills is Mana Infusion. Also keep in mind that if you put less points into MP glyphs, you have more for cooldown reduction or damage glyphs.

Every bronze is also precious, and every bronze you don't spend on your farming character turns into gold you can pour into good things for your main character. If a person doesn't already have glistening dyads, you may assume he also doesn't want to use MP potions.

It all comes down to your situation, then. If you aren't being supported and if you're not using MP potions, (Funny, because I think PVP is more difficult than PVE, yet using potions in PVE is considered standard while it is frowned upon in PVP. Even when you use it to fight an outlaw who initiated on you. You'll get whispered nasty things.) you'll still use Mana Infusion. Mindblast and Time Gyre also do no DPS, but these are still very useful skills to use in some PVE situations and can lead to faster and less stressful DPS in the long run.

I'm sure you're right that it's unnecessary to use it under those circumstances, but I think we can all agree that Sorcerer doesn't have MP problems at all if you do use it.

I agree with you, which is why I said what I said in my last paragraph. Mana Infusion is not necessary unless you're lacking those things I mentioned. If you find yourself lacking most of those, like when you are a new 65 sorc, then obviously go for the Mana Infusion. If you're a fresh 65 sorc you probably won't be doing that much DPS anyway, so trying to maximize DPS at that point is just a bit silly.

I'm just letting the further along sorcs know that after a certain point in your gearing threshold, you really need to stop relying on Mana Infusion. It's perfectly acceptable to use for new sorcs.
Moolgogi on 03/09/2016, 02:41 AM - view
I see. In that case, I'd like to contribute my thoughts on Sorcerer class.

I would also have MP issues if I relied only on Mana Siphon and Mana Volley. Not using Mana Infusion because some of its animation frames can't be canceled by moving is like saying it's bad to use Fireblast, for the same reason. You absolutely should use Mana Infusion in my opinion, especially if MP is an issue for you; and it will be if you're doing as much damage as you should.

Assuming you are playing on the appropriate server and have decent connection, you should be able to cancel your cast and dodge if the boss targets you during your Mana Infusion animation. It's very easy to do if you take the time to study the boss. You don't even need to use Backstep, Teleport Jaunt, Glacial Retreat, or Stone Skin to do this anymore, because Sorcerers have Warp Barrier since the expansion. Warp Barrier will also return MP depending on how many hits it takes. Nova and Arcane Pulse are sometimes actually less safe than Mana Infusion because those can only be canceled with other skills.

So for clarification: Mana Infusion isn't bad to use. Rather, it's the mark of a skilled Sorcerer. A novice will not use it for fear of being "clipped", and in turn be starved of MP.

Sometimes, I wont get a chance to use Mana Infusion while Burst of Celerity is active. That's when I'll use Mana Volley. With a bit of luck, it shouldn't happen so often that you find Mana Volley is on cooldown when you need it for this.

I recommend using Mana Infusion to any Sorcerer. In PVE, I believe the skill is necessary in order to maintain maximum DPS. Maybe you prefer not to use it, but your DPS will be weaker than what it could be, especially in extended fights; there is no arguing. In PVP, it's what allows Sorcerer to get away without MP regeneration crystals and use extra damage crystals instead. And it's as the class guide says: "A Sorcerer's job is to kill things quickly." More damage is better on this class. You already have all the tools you need to maintain your high mana pool. Strive to be better. Don't settle for average.

Okay forget everything QuickFast just said because I can see it's misleading you entirely. Mana Infusion puts you in no more danger than Fireblast does.

You don't use Mana Infusion not because of it's long cast time or because towards the end you can't cancel it, it's because it takes so long to cast and does not do DPS. Every single second of Celerity is precious time and casting Mana Infusion wastes precious time that could be spent casting a damage spell. A mana infusion at the minimum is costing you somewhere around 3-4 filler skills every time you cast it, and it's more than likely you won't only cast it once a fight, but rather once a rotation. Thus you sacrifice spells from every single rotation dropping your DPS. And don't even get me started on Mana Infusion outside of Celerity, you're just asking for the boss to hit you at that point.

Now I do not put myself through the torture of not using at least one Glistening Dyad so I cannot tell you what mana issues are like with no Glistenings. But I can tell that with Mana Restoratives/Divine Infusions, Mana Siphon, Mana Volley, and a competent healer supporting your mana, you should rarely ever drop dead on mana. Mana Siphon/Volley also have to benefit of being able to move while charging/casting them, which can be used while repositioning. Before this patch I would never advocate Mana Infusion for any reason, but this patch has significantly upped our mana costs.

Therefore I can only recommend using Mana Infusion if you are lacking MP glyphs, lacking potions, and lacking a competent healer. With the proper glyphs and a good healer, one glistening significantly reduces your problems, while two or more nearly eliminates them entirely. The only time I find myself using Infusion is if my healer has had a stroke and forgot how to use Mana Charge or is eating the floor.
Kanane on 03/06/2016, 06:06 AM - view
After almost 4 years of playing sorcerer this is the first patch which made me to want to quit. In my opinion this isn't a buff in PvE, but a nerf. I did some math, if I calculated right then in raw numbers it could mean a max of 15% more DPS (or only 12% after I calculated how much I would do with the same rotation I used before the patch)*, but to actually pull that of in-game is very unlikely (aka completely stationary boss that doesn't fights back at all). At best we could be on par.

Making Flaming Barrage as the main filler skill is the worst they could do just a little fluctuation in ping and it will fail to lock not to mention that it still has a fairly long animation lock which makes us vulnerable. Also with flame pillar I felt the gameplay much more smooth (actually I enjoyed being a sorc the most during this period). Lastly Flaming Barrage uses 450 MP (glyphed) while FP only used 160MP and now we have to use it 4-5 times in a rotation. And one more thing Flame Pillar had a hidden critrate buff (according to Yosha) Flaming Barrage doesn't have that IMO.

The overchannel change is a good step, but a good sorc didn't had problem with this anyway. The only thing we gain with it, is the continuous use of Hail Storm. But this is just pushing us even more mana starved.

Changes like +20% damage on Magma bomb and ice needle is almost negligible should I say looks good on paper. I used those once in my rotation before patch now twice which would mean that their contribution of my total damage would go form the hefty 2% to 4-5%. \o/

About the mana problem. Yes without healer I ran out of mana before I could even finish my first rotation (in CW for example). I have starfall weapon so no mana recovery per hit and the other day I used up all (30+) my niveot structures and only got one hardy dyad and no glistening at all. I'm thinking to switch my undie to a noble MP regen one I would still had +220 crit afterwards. Or just run every instance with priest+mystic. :D I don't know if in NA it's easier to get Divine Infusions be here in EU we can only get it from the locked strongboxes so no real source.

Using Mana Infusion is a no go standing still for 2 sec even inside celerity is very dangerous not to mention how much DPS time we would loose because of it. When BHS first buffed sorc during FoA I secretly hoped that they will change the animation of this skill like tenacity for other classes (I'm aware that it would be too op in PvP) but it didn't happen. Instead they upped the mana regen but what's the point if I only use it once before the fight?

The range thing is something I didn't changed. I still fight at 5-6 meter there is no point to be any further this way one galical retreat or backstep usually enough to get behind the boss. There is no true ranged class in Tera no matter what BHS wants. For that they have to change boss mechanics first.

TL;DR: I don't like it at all.

* I'm using Yosha's new rotation he posted on his tumblr and I calculated with flat +20% critrate on Fireblast. I don't know if this is true though but it feels like it's barely there. Need to run some instances with DPS meter on.

I'll try and to this point by point.

I don't see how you can make this argument with the new rotation and not with the old rotation. How was the old Flame Pillar rotation any different for this consideration? You can make that argument for ANY rotation. There's nothing special about the old rotation that made it better against mobile bosses and therefore superior. If the boss moved a lot then you lost DPS with the old rotation just the same.

I can agree with this. Relying on FB as a main filler is a downside because of the obnoxious animation lock, even under Celerity. You can definitely notice the problem running FIHM with the amount of one hit mechanics. You actually have to play semi-cautious because locking yourself into a FB right as the boss starts a one hit mechanic is a death sentence.The mana costs are also a big negative as well. As for the hidden crit rate buff, it's not much a crit buff as it is an intrinsic property of certain skills to crit more than others. You can see this obviously with skills like Haymaker and Counterpunch that have insanely high crit chance even without glyphs. I think it's safe to say Flame Pillar had a "slightly" increased base chance to crit, whereas the other fillers don't appear to do so.

Overchannel change was a buff, plain and simple. Hailstorm not chewing up OC's is a fantastic increase to our damage.

I disagree here, with Flame Pillar being effectively neutered, other skills had to step up and take the place as the filler skill. The base damage increase is noticeable and the glyph for Arcane Pulse to increase Ice Needle damage is great on top of that. If you're not using Ice/Magma as fillers, then what are you using? Your rotation has to have a lot of dead time if you're just relying on Flaming Barrage to come up. You should be using them both 3-4 times at the least every rotation. They come out very quickly and do respectable damage.

Yeah mana is a real pain. I'm really glad I stuck with my Lucid after all for the MP line instead of going for Starfall. An extra 6% damage is garbage if you have no mana to cast anything. It seems at least one Glistening is almost required, as well as a good priest/mystic, and maybe even mana pots on top of that. A second glistening seemed to get rid of most of my problems, but sacrificing two Hardy Niveots is a massive negative in these harder dungeons. I think the way to go is just one Glistening, with good healers, and some mana pots/restoratives for when you're really low. I can't recommend Divine Infusions to anybody because of their price, but they would obviously remove all mana concerns.

I try to avoid using Mana Infusion at all costs unless my healer is brain dead and not giving me anything. Mana Siphon is up every 20 seconds or so and that's a solid chunk of mana while being able to move while charging. Mana Volley is great for those times when you really need mana fast.

I think the changes are fine, I like them even. With the exception of the mana problems I have no complaints.

Show off your best sorc DPS 03/05/2016, 02:01 PM Zerea
NikuroTega on 02/25/2016, 01:49 AM - view
Snipped.


Because those are direct links to the images.

Changes are alright, feels like a buff overall in terms of DPS, just gonna take time to get used to the new rotation. I feel like people are being trapped into thinking Sorcs are long ranged class again with Nova change. There were two big reasons you played melee sorc last patch:

1. Flame Pillar was broken as [filtered] so you had to be ~4.5m in range
2. You were so close to the boss that it takes you less than a second to get to the boss's back if he turns around.

Here's a scenario for you, you play long range sorc and stay at ~10-12m away at all times. Boss turns around and is now facing you. Your teleport jaunt is on cooldown. What do you do? You sit with your thumb up your [filtered] until he turns back around, because even blowing Backstep and Glacial won't get you to the back again, thus dropping your DPS significantly.

Stop underestimating the importance of back damage, people. Yes flame pillar was nerfed 40%, yes it lost its spot as the number one filler skill, but being that close to the boss has the huge advantage of being able to turn your camera 180 and backstep/glacial through the boss to the back in less than a second.

I don't see any reason to stay farther than 6-7m away from the boss now. Anything that's gonna hit you at 10m+ will probably still hit you at 6-7m, and you're still at a range to avoid super close attacks, and still close enough to get to the back in a reasonable time. Solely relying on Teleport Jaunt to get to the back is poor play and you can't rely on a ~10 second cooldown every time the boss turns around. I can't fathom how some of you play at 12m+ back at all times and don't see an issue. Part of your role as a DPS is to maximize the amount of time you stay at the back, and it's simply impossible to reliably do so when you're that far from the boss.

That aside the biggest problem with sorcs right now is mana. In two years of playing sorc I've never been as mana starved as I am this patch. Even running one glistening and having a priest babysit my mana I was still running out. I constantly have to sacrifice skills because I simply do not have the mana. I'm having to resort back to mana potions and restoratives to keep up. I sacrificed another Hardy Niveot for a second glistening, I hope this will be enough to keep my head above water.

Only advice I can give for this is to hope to god you get glistening dyads and party with very competent priests/mystics. Your healers need to understand how mana starved you will be and play accordingly.
Show off your best sorc DPS 02/17/2016, 06:24 PM Zerea
I mean for a Brawler to hit 3.4m it would have to be the god run for them, every consumable popped, with double healer and Warrior, and it would have to be the same for a Sorc. So for both of them to have perfect runs (We're talking fractions of percents likelihood) on the same exact run, without even a Warrior or Mystic? No freaking way.

The only thing that makes sense to me is a messed up DPS meter, because the only other plausible option is somebody typed out that nonsense by hand. If what Moriax said is accurate, and you take the numbers and divide by 2, they make a lot more sense.
Show off your best sorc DPS 02/17/2016, 06:17 AM Zerea
Somniare on 02/16/2016, 05:29 AM - view
Too laggy to run my own, but saw this in a pug few days ago. Brawler Brawler Sorc Warrior Priest.

Lucid +15
\
I don't know where you got that data, but it is horribly skewed. It's actually impossible to pull that much DPS on the last boss, but even more unbelievable is the amount of HP damage done to the boss. The boss only has ~360m total health and your posting data adding up to ~750m HP? 3.4m/s is unachievable by Brawler in the current patch, and 2.1m/s is completely out of range for a Sorc.

I don't know where you got that data, but either the program checking DPS is [filtered], you're including mob kills in that DPS total, or somebody is faking it. It's is just flat-out impossible.

For example here's a run I did the other day, everybody was +15.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/TCf8usT.jpg?1[/img]
Sorcerer Threads Dead? 02/10/2016, 08:27 PM Zerea
haroldz on 02/06/2016, 10:07 AM - view
Every other class except the three you mention below?



I feel that your representation of comparable damage is illogical. Stationary boss vs boss that you have to constantly maneuver around. The loss in damage between the two is quite substantial.

Sorcerer is a difficult class to master. Unlike faceroll champs (Brawler/gunner/reaper).

By the top DPS I mean the top three, Brawler Reaper and Gunner in that order. There's a sizeable gap between Gunner and the next highest DPS. Basically the DPS are grouped in two, potentially three, groups at the moment. You have the best of the best with Brawler/Reaper/Gunner and honestly Brawler almost deserve their own group. After those, you have every one of the original DPS classes with Berserkers, Warriors, Slayers, Sorcs, and Archers in no particular order.

As for your second point, I can show you DPS meters of me pulling as much as 800k on the First two bosses in FINM, both of which can turn very rapidly and often. I'm almost always the first one to the back of the boss after a turn, a simple 180 camera turn and Glacial or Backstep gets you to the back in under a second every time. Once you start playing Sorc like a melee DPS (As they should be because of how broken Flame Pillar is atm), you start increasing your back time percentage significantly.

I do agree that the difference between stationary and moving bosses is substantial, but honestly the difference in damage is the same. I'm the same amount ahead/behind whether the boss is stationary or moving.

And yes I fully agree with Sorc being a difficult class to master. Our skill floor and ceiling are arguably the hardest to reach of all classes
I don't include Brawler because doing so would break discussions.

The existence of the class destroys the dynamic of the game and so it's better to put them in a class of their own instead of continuing to compare them to current classes.

I don't consider Brawler's a DPS class, I consider them Brawlers.
sestina on 02/10/2016, 09:56 AM - view
Four times the damage.

FOUR.

x4.

If that's what you are truly saying then you should stop playing Sorc that gives a bad reputation man.

The point still stands. I was having this debate last night with guildies. Gunner is the easiest DPS class to play bar none. The amount of effort put in relative to the numbers you put up is unmatched, even by Reaper.

You could not wish for anything more when playing Gunner, they have everything. Near 100% crit rate on the skill that does 30-35% of your DPS, Metal Armor, plenty of I-Frames, fantastic glyphs, free back damage regardless of positioning... the list goes on.

It's no coincidence the top three DPS classes are also the three most recently released classes, they shifted the way they make classes, and they've made them far easier to see results.

A new player can do in one week on a Gunner what it would take them a month+ to do on the classic DPS classes, with much more gear required. Gunners aren't the most popular DPS class because everybody has fun playing them, they're the most popular DPS class because the risk vs return is better than any other class. Their ease of picking up and putting up solid numbers without actually doing anything are what draws everybody to them.

But honestly this topic is dead, there's no point continuing it. You play the class you like to play and that's that. Should spend your time trying to be the best Sorcerer you can be instead of comparing them to other classes all day.
[quote name='nranola' at='02/09/2016, 05:39 PM']Made a new table with the statistics that people have posted so far, because I dunno if OP has been updating his: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bVtGANjIPcUEwxJQiY4p9Hw1v64cpIbn02K_yIYTgfU/edit?usp=sharing[/quote]
Cheers for this and for everyone who helped.

How about that 5% <.<
Edited by: Zerea less than a minute ago
Show off your best sorc DPS 02/09/2016, 12:10 AM Zerea
DBij on 02/08/2016, 10:50 PM - view
Just had a pretty good run, I think fireblast crit rate was around 80%. Lucid +15.


Sheesh, more like the god run. I've gotten maybe two of those in 75 runs. Highest I've seen a Sorc pull so far :o.
Show off your best sorc DPS 02/08/2016, 03:47 AM Zerea
Here's the best I did. I had a stupid death at the last carpet phase cause I was trying to DPS too hard so I stopped DPS count early, but I had an 11m crit when I got back up so I'd like to think that deathless I woulda hit 1.3m.

Dreadnought Brawler, Lucid Reaper.



My setup, and probably Daniel's up above, is shown in this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd_H9c5Ze9g

I am missing Lucid/Starfall gloves so I'm losing out on a 3% damage roll, but it's not that important at the moment. If someone is super interested on an actual run I can provide video as well.
Edited by: Zerea less than a minute ago
Sorcerer Threads Dead? 02/06/2016, 01:50 AM Zerea
People really need to stop comparing sorcs to the highest DPS. They beat every other class for a reason, they're the strongest.

Sorcs can keep up/beat every other dps in the game besides Brawlers/Reapers/Gunners. And only then I only lose out to those who actually know how to play those classes well. I stay very close in dps to +15 reapers/gunners on FINM 3rd boss, only brawlers have a sizeable gap between us. All other classes we're equal or I'm ahead.

Sorcs will never be at the top of the DPS charts ever again, get used to it. But we're in a solid spot right now. If you put the time in and you play the class very well you can keep up with 80% of the classes out there. Quit expecting to beat +15 brawlers/reapers/gunners because it's not happening unless they're bad at their class.

The forum and class are dead because nobody wants to put in the time required to put out the DPS we're capable of. Why work your [filtered] off for being above average when you can roll your face on your keyboard and be the best? That's the TERA mentality and it's why high skill floor classes aren't being played.

But we're getting a large buff next patch, and a very nice crit chance glyph on FB the patch after, so we're looking good for the next 6-8 months. Put in the effort and you see the results, otherwise reroll to an OP class.
How are people STILL replying to this thread? It's so painfully obvious this was a troll post.

Just let it die people ffs.
FINM Last boss 01/12/2016, 06:49 PM Zerea
That's because under 15% health the boss enrages and the mechanics can now overlap with each other. Once the boss reaches under 20%, he will soon trigger a carpet phase, so if you time the carpet phase with the 15% enrage, you get a giant window of time where no attacks come and you get full DPS.

On the plus side, he has massively reduced endurance so if you save your brooches and hard hitting skills for under 15% then you will see some lovely crits and the boss will drop very quickly.

It shouldn't be a problem to DPS him down within 15 seconds unless your DPS is god awful. I mean you have to be a drooling vegetable to do that little DPS.
Glove Attack Modifier 01/08/2016, 01:54 PM Zerea
Huh. Two years of playing Tera and I've been misinterpreting that the entire time.

Ah well thanks for the clarification. Back to the drawing board with my DPS issues.
Glove Attack Modifier 01/07/2016, 09:28 PM Zerea
Anybody know the attack modifier you get from:

+12/+15 Lucid
+12/+15 Starfall

Can't seem to find the information anywhere, and I'm curious how much an upgrade in attack +15 Lucid/Starfall Gloves are vs Dreadnought. I feel like I'm missing DPS and the gloves are the only culprit that come to mind.

This is for PvE purposes obviously.
I've got it, the boost is kinda nice and makes rotation a little smoother. I've probably opened 20 ish or so crates this patch and I'm only missing one rare glyph, unfortunately it's the Keen one on Nova <.<.

I'm fairly certain the crates are weighted to give glyphs you don't own more often, at least that's been my anecdotal experience with it. I'll open another 20 or so and if I still haven't gotten it then I'll get back to you.

On the positive side I'm only missing 4 glyphs total from having every single glyph, so I have that going for me.
Yeah uhh basically just completely ignore everything the first guy said and listen to the second guy.

I'd recommend Carving for any new player over Forceful, esp considering their ability to keep backtime on the boss isn't the best so the crystal is effectively wasted. Plus 3% flat crit chance on everything is too good to pass up imo. Maybe when the Fireblast crit glyph hits in two patches we can talk about Carving vs Pounding, but for now Carving is a completely legitimate option.

Rotation given is the "standard" rotation these days. Yosha has a fantastic video of it right here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofZ3U6uaSjI).

Glyph setup is perfect, I personally use MP reduction on Flaming Barrage instead of CD on Flame Pillar, but there's really not much variation to the glyph setup.
0/10
Greenscale on 12/22/2015, 02:18 PM - view
I think it's less about Brawlers having high DPS relative to other classes and more that they have high DPS relative to their role as a tank. When people hear the word 'Tank' in an online game, they tend to associate it with a character that outputs low damage and is extraordinarily hard to kill due to HP/Armor /Mitigation bulk.

While this is often true, tanks are not limited to this archetype. The fact that the Brawler has the bulk to compete with that archetype while still having the damage output of a fair few of the DPS classes makes people unhappy. Sure, most DPS classes who have a solid idea as to what they're doing will beat out a Brawler. However, many people haven't adjusted to the concept that the Brawler is a tank that happens to do some pretty damn good damage.

Remember that the Brawler hasn't been out even 2 weeks. It's sure to receive multiple nerfs.

I think the fact this even needs to be a question should tell you all you need to know about Brawlers. The fact we're having discussions about the DPS of a TANK class versus a DPS class is ridiculous. The fact a tank can put up numbers equal to, if not superior to DPS classes is a massive problem. Nobody would care if they put up high numbers relative to other tanks, this whole discussion is because they're putting up high numbers compared to pure damage classes.

But this all pointless talk anyway because they're already scheduled to get two nerfs the next two updates, both of them very sizeable in both PvP and PvE.
double hailstorm rotation? 12/22/2015, 08:31 AM Zerea
Still have to yet to see any reliable evidence on which is superior at the moment, double cdr + hailstorm spam or the classic all damage % rolls and standard rotation. I know for certain after the OC changes that double cdr will be superior, but is the hailstorm worth sacrificing the OC on the first Fireblast right now?

More importantly is it worth spending my time rerolling to double cdr at this point in time. If you're gonna tell me I can expect 50k+ dps increase then I'll hop on board, but I'm not tossing hundreds of MW scrolls on ~20k dps.

Give me some numbers people.
Need Sorcerer tips PVP 12/18/2015, 11:02 AM Zerea
Well before you even go into tips you gotta do something about that ping. You're not gonna do anything with 200 ms. That ping is far too high to react to anything in a timely manner. Your skills are going to be impossible to aim, you'll be getting hit by things you never see, and all in all it's going to be very unpleasant to try and PvP with that ping.

There are no tips to give you at 200ms ping for ANY class, because none of the advice matters.
The classes are so close in DPS right now it honestly doesn't matter. It's not like there's some massive difference between the top DPS and bottom DPS that completely obsoletes the bottom class from being viable. 5/7 are basically on equal footing, and the remaining two classes just slightly nudge them out.

Just play the class you enjoy, you'll be fine.
ArgentHellion on 12/11/2015, 12:32 AM - view
I guess it's good to know that the class is supposed to feel broken at the start and that the torture is supposedly worth the effort on the long run. It definitely makes me feel a bit optimistic for the second time, the first time being when I made the character.

As for the difficulty and the learning curve: well I wanted a challenge and seems I inadvertently found one. Now that I've stumbled into this torture tunnel there's no turning back until I reach the other side... gonna have to go all the way through, for better or for worse... wimping out is not an option, I would rather suffer a devastating defeat and learn from it than run off with my tail between my legs like a sissy.

The greatest issue I'm having problems coming to terms with is the fact that the Sorcerer doesn't seem to have any kind of health restoration abilities, which are basically second-nature to my play-style and I feel crippled without them. Unlike the Lancer and the Priest, every time I start a fight with a Sorcerer I feel like I'm on a strict time-limit as every subsequent hit I suffer pushes the countdown closer to zero.

Mystic? No thank you, I was under the impression that the Priest is the go-to class when it comes to prime healing, and besides, the Priest has already grown on me as my main despite the fact that I haven't levelcapped him yet. My opinion about TERA healers has therefore been permanently tainted and I will always view the Mystic as the secondary healer, despite what anyone might say.

Glad to hear you're sticking with it and that's a fairly accurate way of putting it, especially when leveling. If you're leveling with a Priest it's not as bad, but evasion is definitely key. It gets easier as you get to 65 and get going with experienced healers so you can be a lot more greedy with your playstyle. Health potions and consummables are quit helpful for "Oh [filtered]" moments. For low levels getting appropriate level health potions might be difficult or expensive, but they might be useful for you.

Also as for Mystic and Priest, Priest is by far the easier to play and feel impactful on, but Mystics are fantastic additions to a party because of their auras and indirect way of helping the party out. For leveling, and in particular those still learning the game, I would always recommend Priest simply because Mystics have a wonky learning curve and playstyle and half of their healing power comes from picking up the healing motes they drop, as opposed to the direct healing of a Priest.

In a sense, Mystics are the Sorcs of healers. A long ramp up time but late game just as good as Priests, and in some situations far superior. If you're already attached to Priest there's absolutely no reason to reroll, I just want to clear up your misconception that Mystics are inferior to Priests.
ArgentHellion on 12/10/2015, 11:17 AM - view
After giving serious thought about choosing my DPS class and doing some research, I came to the conclusion that the Sorcerer is my way to go in TERA, considering I always pick Human and always male.

I've tried out a lot of DPS specialized classes in previous games and my experience with them was mostly... meh... dull or average... but I honestly feel something is awfully wrong about the Sorcerer from the very first moment I began playing it. So far I've managed to reach level25 and it's been a torture to play.

Compared to my standard selections, the Lancer (tank) and the Priest (healer), the Sorcerer feels clumsy and broken. I feel like I never have the appropriate skills to handle any situation on my own, and when I'm in a group I don't feel like I'm contributing at all... and it really makes me feel very depressed as soon as I even look at my Sorcerer on the character selection screen.

My questions are:
- First and foremost, is the Sorcerer worth playing considering there are much more powerful classes out there DPS-wise?
- Is this class supposed to feel so broken at the start?
- Is the torture worth suffering through to reach the high-tier skills?
- Is the class effective enough to justify it's extremely fragile state?

Well I had typed out a nice reply to all your questions with some advice, but the forums ate my post and I can't be bothered to type it all out again.

Quick version:
Yes to all your questions, sorc can keep up with the best of them when played well (with a few exceptions). Sorc is the most personally satisfying class to play, and you will feel "alive" when you have it down.

If you really want to learn sorc and get good at it, it will take you A LOT of time and effort to learn rotations, proper gear rolls, proper crystals, proper glyphs, learning bosses' attack patterns, learning how to iframe properly, and a lot more. You won't be making any significant group contribution until you're 65 and you start getting the basic 65 necessities out of the way, as well as learning your sorc rotation and getting the muscle memory down.

You picked the toughest class to play well, if you're not prepared to put in the effort just save yourself the trouble and reroll to a Zerk/Slayer/Warrior in ascending order of difficulty (roughly).

If you wish to stick with sorc, ask away. Lot of experienced sorcs here and a lot of good information sources to use. I myself have been playing sorc for over two years and apart from a dead phase the class had a few months ago, I've loved the class.
I mean the nerfs hurt, let's be real here. Their 3s potential got gutted with loss of ability to 100-0 someone, Time gyre is much longer cd and has cast time, Burning breath got nerfed... They're probably still okay with large scale PvP, but their small combat potential was greatly bopped.

I suppose it makes sense though. Sorcs were good at every form of PvP whether it be large scale or small skirmishes, I'm personally fine with it for the most part since all I do when I do decide to PvP is Corsair's, but I'd hardly call that PvP <.<.
Looks like this thread is pretty much done then. We know we're getting more crits on Fireblast, and that's enough for me.

If we want to continue this help train I would suggest a new thread for it.
Sent you a PM Seikilos. I can do TSNM if you want to see how Kumas is done.

And recording yourself and showing us is also a possibility.
Seikilos on 12/05/2015, 03:41 AM - view
As long as both equations use the crit resistance the same way in the link you offered doesn't that mean that the equation remains the same? I am not very good at math tbh. But if A=30B and you divide both sides with the same number , the numbers get smaller but the differnce between them remains the same. Of course you will get fewer crits with higher crit resistance but as soon as ***the difference between*** the numbers of "no glyph" crits and the "with glyph" crits remains 30% the glyph works just fine, and has no reason not to. You have 2 equations, you keep every variable the same except for the crit resistance which you change but you change it in the same way (i.e the same number) in both equations. The only reason this wouldn't work is if Crit resistance behaves differently the higher it goes """""""between the skills with no crit modifier and skills with crit modifier""""""".
I'm highlighting (well in my own primitive way) the exact sentence, because crit resistance as it is showed does in fact behave differently, and in fact, in our favour, by having deminishing returns.

But we don't care about that now. What we care about is that it behaves the same way BETWEEN the two cases. Like, if in skills with crti modifiers you would have to multiply Crit resist by some coefficient that would change it to be even biger. But we don't. We just use it as it is in both "skills with no Crit modifiers equation" and in "skills with crit modifiers equation". So mathematically it has to keep the difference the same. The numbers will drop, but the difference will stay the same. And this difference produces the "more" effect we seek. The 30% chance glyph doesn't say you will do 90 crits. It says that if you use it you will do 30% more than if you didn't. The difference between 10 crits and 13 crits is 30%. So is between 100 crits and 130 crits.

If anyone has a tank and healer in MT that would be willing to hold aggro in lets say the turtle of BrNM and BrHM i would be willing to retest this theory. Or any other mon that you think appropriate. Tho i'm not a pro player my fulminate reaper with most of it's gear removed can't handle Darkan HM. Maybe NM. Nah i'm joking. XD

If no one wants, it's still ok, because:
1) even if it don't work we have helped our fellow op reapers to know they can crit orisks 30% more
and
2) at the end Zerea is right! No matter what it is, it's a buff. small? big? It's a buff. that's all that counts.

@Zerea:
Do you have any videos of yourself in combat or do you stream? My noob [filtered] could use some reference point or moves i can pick up cause there is no way i could keep up with gunners in general (maybe if they are bad). If i have a good tank i can unleash some small scale hell. But yestarday in tsnm-kuma i swore imma wear front crit crystals if next patch bosses are the same. XD
That's how bad my situation is. XD

Assuming Whipsaw is a flat % increase then yes it would not matter at all, but you would have to test mobs at every stage to be super certain. Easiest just to try in Hard Mode where we know the bams are 185 CR and do the experiment like that.

And for your second question I suppose I can try to record some footage of me running AINM or something. My FPS is pretty bad as is though so I can't promise optimal play.
Rats. I just heard word that Treeshark confirmed FIHM isn't in this patch. Guess we'll just have to practice for when it does come.
Depends on the class really, but the general rule is +15 anything can skip the next gear set entirely. +15 Generation allowed you to skip every piece of gear this patch, unless you really felt like spending hundreds of thousands of gold +15ing the new set. +15 lucid lets you skip next gear set coming up, and so forth.

The difference is roughly 7-10% depending on the class, so you will notice a difference. But unless that difference is worth 500k gold to you, I wouldn't worry about it.
Seikilos on 12/04/2015, 09:36 AM - view
@Zerea:

Ok at your question to yosha, he told you that if you want to experiment you could use a reapers 30% crit chance glyph on whipsaw to test it out.

I tried to do this. I am not really good at this. And please correct me if i did sth wrong. If i did sth wrong i will try to repeat this again. No jumperino on my neck pretty plz.

Ok, i kept all variables the same between using the glyph from pendulum strike and not using it.

My crit factor when i did this was 52(base) +14 from weapon cause i didn't want to pay 5k to buy an ambit that was on broker. XD (i'm a cheap mofo! ok? ty)

No belt, brooch,neck,rings, gloves, and no carving crystal or etchings ( like hell i would put etching to fulminate XD), no auras, just me, myself and the bams. (guest star berserker friend, wannabe tank).

The subjects were orisks north (or south??) of amadjuak post. First was the "w/o glyph" were i would run around and back whipsaw the orisks. The second was "w/ glyph" where i had a berserker friend hold the orisk so i can pendulum-whipsaw. These bams are jumpy so not easy to do the combo.

The results:

whipsaw without the glyph: 101 hits*, Crit % : 21.78%
whipsaw with the glyph : 104 hits*, Crit % : 48.07%

*obviously i didn't use whipsaw 100+ times. i did that assuming the crit works on each hit of the skill separately.

so yeah. it looks like a flat 30%. the % droped cause last use on "with glyph" whipsaw didn't crit much. up till then it was perfect 30%.

We can still be falling prey to BHS common practice of using double standards. Because reapers glyph says 30% chance and is 30% chance, doesn't mean that sorcs will have the same even if the description of glyph uses the same words.

Comments and criticism plz.

My concern with this test is that you used only one source of BAMs for your test, and they were open world BAMs which I am 95% sure have lower Crit Resist than those found in dungeons. I know for fact hard mode BAMs have 185 Crit resist, which results in significantly lower crits than those found in the TERA world. This was the biggest problem with the first Crit formula test. The Korean player only tested on one BAM and not many with varying crit resists, leading to a formula that only works partially. But looking at the Crit Resist graph located here - https://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/player-vs-environment/topics/A-new-way-to-see-Crit-Factor , your crit chance at 62 crit factor is perfectly in-line with a BAM at 95 Crit resist

My other concern is that the Orisks were only level 63 It's been tested and shown that each level difference between player and monster is ~0.7% crit chance either way. That only results in 1.5%, but that's still something to keep in mind.

So you've effectively proven it does behave like a flat 30% glyph, but only on BAMs with 95 Crit Resist, which offer significantly more crits than those found in dungeons. If you get a similar difference, like 10% without and 35%+ with in a Hard mode dungeon, then I'll start to believe ya.

I'm not particularly bothered either way. If it's a flat 20%, then fantastic we just got a massive buff, if it only increases the crit multiplier to 1.2, that's still fine because that's still a ~8-10% increase. I'm able to keep up with Lucid Gunners in +12 schisma at my current state. My DPS is not a concern to me, but any buff to Fireblast is a welcome addition.
Ketoth on 12/03/2015, 07:56 AM - view
Crit chance topic, time to speak:

ON this buff that sorc and zerk got in ktera is quite easy to test:
Unkeep all gear that give crit and go test on a bam &gt; if you crit 1 of 5 hits it is flat % crit chance (OP as hell)

If you dont crit i would assume that:

the value of A on my formula gonna chance from 1 to 1.2 (eg if you have 50% now, you gonna have 60% after)

or

the value of B change to 80% of the current value, just possibilities.

Castanic passive are added in the end of the formula on Msc part

Never expected you to show up to this thread. I was using your forum post a lot, haha.

And I figured the CCM would simply change to 1.2, which is nice buff but nothing OP.
what weapon for pve? 12/03/2015, 08:45 PM Zerea
Well right now is a funky time for newer players to gear up, considering we get new dungeons and gear sets in 5 days.

To try and make it short and simple. Just go straight for Schisma gear and HOLD ONTO IT for next patch. Schisma's enchant rates and masterwork rates will skyrocket to near 100% with the next patch and it's more than enough to clear 95% of next patch's content. You should be able to masterwork every piece within ~5 scrolls and get to +12 with under 5-10 failures total. Do not try and +12 it this patch, wait until the new patch comes on December 8th or you will spend much more money than necessary!

From a fresh level 65:

Bathysmal Rise Normal Mode (BRNM) for Fulminate gear and accessories Can skip Fulminate gear and stick with the Idoneal set you get from the story quests if you want, but it will make AINM a little harder and you'll still want the accessories anyway.

Akeron's Inferno Normal Mode (AINM) for Wroth/Schisma gear. Wroth is more common here , but Schisma is the end goal. If you get Wroth gear feel free to +9 it if you wish, that shouldn't take too many tries and gives a modest boost, but I wouldn't try and Masterwork it unless you feel lucky. Make sure to always use Instance Matching for this, or join a LFG group that plans on matching. You get two free schisma weapon crates at the end mailed to you that may give you your weapon. If you ask your raid nicely they will probably pass on schisma drops for those that need the items still.

Akeron's Inferno Hard Mode (AIHM) for Schisma. I would not recommend this to inexperienced players in bad gear, and at this point in the patch it will be nearly impossible for you to find a raid that won't kick you out because of low gear.

Timescape Normal Mode/Hard Mode (TSNM/TSHM) Can skip these entirely, these only drop materials for crafting Lucid gear, but this late in the patch and for new players I recommend to skip this set entirely.

Schisma may also be a drop from the normal mode dungeons of next patch, so it's also an option to wait for the new content, but AINM is a very easy dungeon to run so you might as well go for it now.
trouble with dodging 12/03/2015, 07:59 PM Zerea
It's hard to tell you exactly what to do. Most of the time it's just being out of the boss's way in the first place. Telegraphed attacks like AoE attacks are quite easy to iframe, and for sorcs Warp Barrier is an amazing damage survival skill. Learn to use it religiously and even if you're somewhat close to the timing it'll still block damage due to its length.

You just need to practice watching the monster and learning its attacks and about when you take damage. Learning to Backstep something or Jaunt something takes a bit stricter timing than just using Warp Barrier, but you'll get the hang of it.

A lot of BAMS in dungeons are just copies of those you'll find out in the TERA world while leveling, which mean their basic attacks are identical so the only thing you have to learn is their special moves. Kumas, Giants, Basilisks, Dracoloths, Orisks, Golems... the list goes on. If a particular boss is giving you trouble try finding their weaker counterpart out in the TERA world and just watch their attacks. Some unique bosses have no counterparts, so you're kinda out of luck there.

It just takes practice to get a feel for the timing. Iframing something is all about looking for tells from the boss and then just "feeling" the right timing.
SilverKidia on 12/02/2015, 06:48 PM - view
@DBij :Are you sure that it is straight 20% chance added, unrelated to your crit factor? IE if you had somehow 0 crit factor, with this glyph, you would have a 20% crit chance? Or is it 20% of your crit chance added in?

I'm almost positive it will not be a flat 20% crit chance, a 0 crit factor turns into 0 crit chance.

Looking at the graphs for zerks and archers, their double crit chance glyphs give around ~25% more crits. So I think it's appropriate to base our buff around that number. I don't know why they gave Warriors' Scythe a special treatment instead of making it like the others, but I don't think it's appropriate to base our buff on a special case.

A flat 20% crit buff would be massive, but I think it's more reasonable to expect around 10% more crits.

Also DBij that's an incredibly outdated formula and the 100 crit factor = 18% only works well for the first 100 crit factor. It's diminishing returns the next 100 and even more the next. I saw nothing in my searches last night to suggest that formula is relevant this patch, as the commonly accepted formulas have changed.
archer or sorcerer 12/02/2015, 06:45 PM Zerea
Well I can't say too much about Archers as I've never played one, but I can say a lot of Sorcs.

Sorcs are very rotation based and our entire kit revolves around one skill, Burst of Celerity, in order to dish out massive damage. Getting a flawless rotation every time back to back is very important in order to maximize DPS, because our DPS output when Celerity is cooling down is fairly minimal. Because of that it's important to make every spell count in your rotation. It pains me to see sorcerers use Burst of Celerity and then spam fireball the entire time ; You do less DPS than the tank at that point >.<.

The difference between a very experienced sorc, and even a moderately experienced sorc is like night and day. Sorcs are a very steep learning curve and it takes time in order to build the muscle memory for your perfect rotation. It can be very difficult balancing optimal DPS and safety from attacks, because we are in a lot of ways a glass cannon. You have to constantly decide if you're going to sacrifice a spell or two in your rotation in order to play safer or to guard an attack. Played well a sorc can match or at least come very close to the best dps in the game, but I could argue that it's probably the hardest class to get to that point. It takes a long time to get used to the feel for the class and how it's supposed to be played. Until time is put in to familiarize yourself with the playstyle, you're gonna feel like a deadweight to your party, and you'll quickly find out what the ground tastes like.

DPS wise I think both are quite close when played with equal skill. I think a Sorcerer is harder to play at an equal level, and because of that I think they're capable of slightly higher DPS, but Archers can output incredibly DPS as well.

If you want a very intense, rotation-based, glass-cannon class then stick with Sorc, but be prepared to put effort into becoming good.
Seikilos on 12/02/2015, 02:58 AM - view
This is what I needed tbh. I just couldn't tell how crit factor is turned to %chance so I can do the comparison of which one is better. I was leaning to chance cause it's way more straight forward, 20% crit chance means 1 out of five, but as a sorc all that I ve known so far is crit factor , and that made me dizzy.

Thank you very much!

Yeah it makes sense in principle, but when we don't actually know what the formula is for a crit, it's hard to tell you what 20% increase crit chance means, because glyphs can be very misleading.

All I can say for certain is we will crit Fireblast MORE, I just cannot tell you how much more.
GG 12/02/2015, 03:58 AM Zerea
Can't tell if hijacked account or just stupid.
SilverKidia on 12/01/2015, 06:25 AM - view
There's only one crystal that has a crit power proc on the side, no matter what you do, you need to dps from the back, or you're gonna miss tons of damage. So while yes it is possible to crit on the side or the front, it is still a bad thing to do. We need to focus on back damage, and considering the new tanking, there's gonna be less reasons to not backcrit.

Yeah that was me. LOL. And all I can guess is that Fireblast is going to crit 20% more on average with the glyph.

It's confusing because for Berserker and Archer their glyphs simply roll for crit twice and if any of the rolls result in a crit then that particular hit crits, as shown here - https://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/player-vs-environment/topics/A-new-way-to-see-Crit-Factor I think I remember reading that it equaled out to about 1.7x more crits overall.

However for warriors, it doubles the chance outright. As long as you reach 50% crit chance normally, Scythe will ALWAYS crit at 10 edge, as shown here - http://teratoday.com/content/tera-guide/tera-class-guide/warrior-min-max-guide-bernkastel#crit-chance

To further add to the chaos, I have found this formula:

Crit Chance = (base(?) + crit chance additions [weapon crystal / castanic racial] + crit rate modifier) * (crit chance multipliers)

Apparently the crit chance multiplier is usually 1, unless you have a double crit chance that raises it to 2, which makes me think the glyph might change the multiplier to 1.2 instead, which is fantastic for us. I cannot vouch for the validity of this formula but it does give an idea of how the 20% glyph would work.

All of this a tremendous assumption because we don't know the actual formulas, we can only guess, which makes it hard to say for certain what exactly a 20% increased crit chance is doing for us. My gut instinct is telling me to expect a flat 20% increase in our crit chance, but I'm honestly not sure if that formula is correct, and even if it is I'm not sure if increasing the crit chance multiplier to 1.2 actually equates to 20% more crits.

This is all far too much math for my liking, so I've asked Yosha again for some clarity. He loves this stuff <.<.
Edited by: Zerea less than a minute ago
Is it worth going to +15? 12/01/2015, 12:21 AM Zerea
+12 schisma is more than enough to do everything minus Dreadspire.
I'm interested in joining on my sorc, my time is incredibly flexible. Will be full +12 schis on patch day. I'll send you a MSG in game as well.
Yeah I got a beginners lesson in Korean, Espei translated it wrong. It's crit chance not factor, which leads me to assume a flat 20% crit chance buff on our Fireblast, on top of the +50 from Nova and Arcane.

Damn it feels good to be a sorc.
Marshmalllow on 11/15/2015, 08:41 AM - view
After the nerf would it be wise to just remove FP from our rotation then?

Yeah I'd just replace its spot with magma bomb and/or ice needle. Both received solid buffs and the severe nerf to FP + its reliance on being very close to a boss puts it bottom tier right now. I think it would've hurt our DPS somewhat if not the Overchannel changes that are going to shake up the rotation a bit.
Honestly I'm not sure. I can't seem to find corroborating sources on whether it's crit chance or crit factor, and what exactly 20% increased chance means in numbers. My instinct based on looking at other classes is that it's a flat 20% increase on our total crit chance, which is massive.

But I have no idea where the 20% comes into the equation so I can't say for certain if it's a huge buff, or a rather insignificant one.
Smileybones on 11/25/2015, 09:58 PM - view
Spent around 20k, cause I farmed most of the mats.

I feel like this is the only way to do it without losing sanity. Farm an attempt at a time. I'd rather lose 100 times spread out over time than 100 all at once.
LagIncarnate on 11/24/2015, 04:17 PM - view
Tensus in PvE is a bad idea going in to next patch.
Lucid +12 is a little better than dreadnaught +12 gear.

If you don't currently have lucid gear, then you should just upgrade to dreadnaught and ignore lucid. If you currently have lucid +12, you can upgrade to starfall gear and ignore dreadnaught. If you have lucid +15 you probably shouldn't even bother upgrading until VM7 is out.

That actually answered almost every question I had.

Roughly what's the difference between +12 dread and +12/+15 starfall? The base stats of Dreadnought are just under Starfalls, so for a pure PvE player am I missing out on anything besides the extra line and slightly better damage? Assuming I stop at +12.

I'm just trying to figure out the appeal of putting in effort to farm VM6 when it looks on paper to be a negligible gain at +12. Even if I lost my sanity and wanted to +15 I don't feel like I'm gaining much.
I don't even play PvP and I know how broken they are. Our kit is overloaded for PvP. The nerfs are incredibly warranted.
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