TERA Online forum archive
Posts by Xandervb
That's because ppl play for grind, not for fun. Sometimes it's way more entertaining and challenging to wipe with newbs for an hour than to repeat exactly same perf pattern few times a day on different alts. Tera has little variety and many ppl keep playing it despite clearly not enjoying repeating same content hundreds of times, just to get some shiny gear that in the end is useless because you are already bored with everything.
These do not share cooldown. Like, if you use Federation Supply version and it was the last one in your inventory, you can still use another version. So only have 1 of each in your inventory, put rest in pet bank and refill only when off cd.
You need 95% of max achievement points, not counting Special tab.
Nah it's just to scam ppl on server trans... *notices free server transfer* OMFG this event is sooo coooool!

Great event to get ppl from EU back to EU servers, you can gear up quickly and then join a competitive endgame scene in a few weeks.
It's not dead, it's just a lack of tanks, not many of them solo que. Switch to lancer/brawler to get insta que... with trappy ppl who can't watch 5 min vid about 3 simple mechs and just keep wiping. Really, better go get a guild, Tera now highly relies on closed communities.
The only times when I queued as tank were times when I accidentally pushed find group instead of completing vanguard quest. As DPS, I sometimes IM'ed because it's better to spend 10 minutes more in dungeon and DPS carry a bit than LFG 10 minutes more for tank and healer.

As a tank, I can't boost party dps that much and IM may take forever. LFG as tank is also pretty fast.

Not to mention that most LFGs in Tera take place in guild chats or Discord channels. Open community is becoming more toxin and trap, which forces even more decent players into these closed enclaves. This is what makes servers appear more empty than in reality.
Red quest in HW that used to give Idoneal now gives current low-tier gear for free.
phantazum wrote: »
I agree, Brawlers rage blocking needs to be removed. Its completely killing the entire tanking game.

What's killing the game is lack of tanks. I guess it was added so ppl who know DPS mechs can tank on their alts with no actual tanking skill.
Brawler auto-blocks everything rn with unlimited GF. Making block stupidly ez to use forced more unblockable attacks, same as adding new classes with 4-5 iframes/absorbs forced more non-iframeable/non-absorbable attacks.
TLX wrote: »
Xandervb wrote: »
They don't give playerbase any news simply because they don't have anything new to say. Tera devs are inexperienced in console porting and it's taking longer than expected so they can't plan release ahead. Some updates would be indeed nice but it's still better than giving beta release date and postponing it every few weeks. F2p titles have quite limited budget.

Well,some games provide beta,and then the launch,and noone dies.

The issue here is that devs are still not certain about beta release too. They don't intend to just release demo from PAX West with 1 location in low resolution and call it a beta. I agree BHS revealed the info about console Tera a bit too early for what Western players are used to.
They don't give playerbase any news simply because they don't have anything new to say. Tera devs are inexperienced in console porting and it's taking longer than expected so they can't plan release ahead. Some updates would be indeed nice but it's still better than giving beta release date and postponing it every few weeks. F2p titles have quite limited budget.
Depends what you consider challenging.
To reach 3-star dungeons - +0 Twistshard = a few hours if you aren't trap: complete lvl 65 questline that grants enchanting mats, then spam some low tier IoD BAMs for golden talents.
To reach 4-star dungeons - +0 Frostmetal, may take a few weeks actually if you start from scratch with no alts. Depends on class: brawler can solo smash IoD BAMs in seconds, priest/mystic need to find a good DPS party (guild or static) because PUGs often take forever to clear.

Not sure how Tera was during ACHM patch, but comparing to like 1-2 years ago, you need to subtract 1 star from dungeon difficulty. Which means despite having actual mechs, 3-star dungeons now have almost no oneshots and you can ignore everything as long as your healer is decent. So you may need to get to Frostmetal (4-star) to get some fun.
Thanks for your answers! I will try to stick to around 200 and check my crit rates.
Is it mixed crit/power accessory set or full crit for brawler after gear revamp? What is +crit cap atm?
Agreed. Quatre is way too expensive to give it to healer and waste its DPS boost, it's like giving priest x2.0 dragon solely for flight duration.
Zestroia wrote: »
Ehhh...........forgive me for reviving a dead thread here but , I really need to ask, is this method still viable at 2017? Really want to know.

It grants you pennies compared to year ago, because of various mat-dropping events these prices are low atm. IoD can still be profitable to some extent if you have a class capable of finishing it fast.

It may be better to spend vg credits on niveots rather than MWA boxes atm (check prices on your server), you also should check what to buy with IoD tokens (compare prices of cheap and expensive crafting mats).

Instead of low-tier IoD it's better to run Ace Dungeons (less tokens and credits but medals can be exchanged for etchings).
Zestroia wrote: »
Eh, most of the times I search for random parties, since I rarely or never find people to run dungeons on the same server as me.

What server are you playing at? Many skilled players look for party in their guild chat only or join LFGs hosted by ppl they recognize. Having a guild or static is pretty much mandatory for getting past gearing runs. Even if your DPS is lacking, you will notice much of an improvement when playing with competent tank and healer.
Zestroia wrote: »
i always play with 168-230 pings ups and downs, since I am from EU and my connection is not the best. But I've met people that claimed to have 300-500 pings and they were still playing perfectly fine and told me to stop "complaining" because I am considered with "perfect" ping.

Do not believe everything you hear. Players with 400-500 ping are pure traps in anything harder than gearing dungeons (~300 is kind of cap for ping-resistant classes like Brawler, Valk and Sorc), they just may not know it because they don't use meters and won't notice that they are getting carried. Also, do not measure your performance by comparing to others during leveling - there are many newbies that won't hold aggro even against competent mystic.

Your ping seems a bit too high for warrior but not impossible - check if you can chain i.e. Charging slash -> Blade Draw because that combo is the most vunerable. As EU player I can tell you there are also some legal and less legal solutions that may help you A LOT with your ping, you may want to look it up.

If you want to play Hard modes, it may be best to find a guild that is willing to teach you and use less ping-dependant classes for starters (like sorc, valk, brawler).

By the way, have you been trying these "harder dungeons" via IM or LFG? Because it's not really a good idea to IM anything harder than gearing dungeons so there's a possibility you kept getting into trap parties.
It would be amazing to experience all the removed content! It's like fanmade online Tera museum, I'd totally visit that! But I doubt it will happen, this is a lot of work for a few ppl who do it in their free time.

I doubt it would be any danger for EME - it's fun to try something with more content and less restrictions, but there aren't that many ppl who prefer putting all their long-time effort into small server that can disappear anytime because its creator got married/fired/a kid etc. WoW is different because it's p2p vs f2p. If WoW was f2p, few players would stay on private servers only for "legacy content".
Dvsv wrote: »
Warrior is one of the best dps classes if you got low ping.
If you got high-ping (150 ms+), you can put how much effort or gear you want on this class but you will always be trash...
Imho, this is a HUGE factor to consider before you think about making a warrior main.. (both dps and tank..)

Btw, Warrior is hard but not that hard tbh if you got low-ping or you can "fix" high-ping problems..
There's a huge safety net cuz so many iframes on Warrior, sometimes i think it's even faceroll...

Imho a Gunner is harder to master than a dps Warrior cuz you gonna burn your iframes on a perfect rotations, it's harder to reposition, etc..

I disagree, warrior after revamp is so strong if played properly that you can get quite good DPS with around 150 ping. Even in pre-proxy times I met some OP warriors in RMH runs so you can run any content without slowing down your party. I agree about tanking, you need low DPS for animation cancels and tap block. For DPS, ~180 is the margin where you can't chain Cs->BD anymore.
Zestroia wrote: »
Thanks again, also, another thing, did they changed anything on skill cooldown on Brawlers?

Most important change was removal of Growing Fury cooldown. Now when you lose it, all you need to do is regain full rage bar and instantly cast it again. This made brawler even easier to play because not losing GF between certain mechanics used to be one of the most challenging things about that class. This change also greatly reduced importance of Roundhouse kick glyph. RMB block may still provide useful because of +50% damage glyph.
Don't worry about warrior tanking, you do not need d-stance at all. Even for soloing a-stance is good enough if you don't mind a bit of jumping around to backcrit. Warriors using d-stance past leveling are very rare.

Que as tank is not advised ATM because recent nerf made it almost impossible to tank before 52. I just dropped it as an idea if you can't get IM match in ~30 minutes because it's better than doing nothing or trying to solo.

This guide is very good but also quite complicated. Unfortunately I do not know any guide that include just basics, it may take a few hours of trying to figure it out and decide optimal keybinds (skill chains close to each other). Warriors do not have a fixed rotation, best thing you can do is learn all short skill chains that generate Edge and adjust depending on Blade Draw resets and cooldowns. Priorize chains that include Blade Draw if it's off cooldown, try to scythe at 10 Edge (not 9 or 11), never Scythe if it won't backcrit, try to get 10th Edge with skill that shortens Scythe animation.

Practice with party that has tank and healer when possible, focusing on your rotation is hard enough even without having to worry about positioning and minor damage.
Warrior is hard to play class, make sure you priorize skills that stack Edge, use Scythe asap and always use skill chains that give you faster animation (like, never cast RoB or BD first because it triggers long animation).

Warrior is very good for endgame solo content because of high mobility that allow proper backcrit time.

No need to solo leveling dungeons, especially now that all bosses have boosted HP (since valkyrie patch). EXP in 5-man party is same as solo and if IM as DPS takes forever you can still que as tank despite not having your tank skills anymore.
Good luck with it! Hope EME can add something to the prize pool, like bound cosmetic or sth.
There are modders who have knowledge on how to fix memeslash and already tried to contact EME via many different channels. Apparently everyone in EME/BHS team act like "it's not my business" and can't make it priority.
Fill a customer support ticket, only they can recover your stuff. Weird bug or someone was messing with you account.
Obs wrote: »
I guess they moved Mystic ToP because it was stealing aggro from low level tanks too much. Against mobs, they should still easily kill them with just Blast Smite spam.

Some people keep saying that but I doubt anyone experienced it. As I said, leveled 2 tanks via IM and it happened maybe once - compared to like hundreds of runs that would be waaaay longer without tank or thrall and chaotic jumping around. And that one time I just had to explain thrall is for no-tank party only because DPS contribution is minimal.

That behavior is almost nonexistent compared to amount of mystics who dps instead of healing, but that's not the reason to block all their dps skills when in party. This is mmo game, sometimes you need to interact with other ppl to learn you are supposed to buff/debuff/backcrit etc.
Obs wrote: »
Aist wrote: »
I know you can't CC bosses, but it just feels extremely weird to quest as a ranged class like Sorcerer and constantly be face-tanking everything. Like I said, some classes the changes worked out well, but others not so much. I would argue that ToP is basically a core/fundamental Mystic skill, seeing as the whole class is designed around them, yet their main pet you use while questing is locked behind level 50?

There's nothing wrong with facetanking. You should also technically be in a party with a tank and a healer.

Mystics aren't really designed around thralls either.

I think OP meant solo leveling in OW. Because this game used to have an actual storyline. CC was also a signature sorc tactic for low level PvP. Both of this is gone now.

Maybe BHS thought that CC became useless and getting skills that are useless till endgame PvP so early was confusing new players. I agree it feels anti-climatic and class should give proper impression from the start, now gameplay experience suddenly changes midway (not only sorc but mainly war tank, also mystic that suddenly becomes off-tank at 50 then lose it at 65; only fixed for war dps because now it's all about scything from early on).
You are comparing two different genres with two different target audiences. "Grim Dawn is more popular than Tera so let's switch Tera to mostly solo" - well, CoD has more players than Grim Dawn so maybe let's turn Grim Dawn into shooter? Two different markets. There aren't many party-based mmos in production but there are some that are doing good (FF, WoW etc.) and probably just fill that market for now, hence no new projects. Party mmos usually require some kind of dedication (guilds, raids, statics) and therefore big part of playerbase play it for a long time. In solo hack'n'slashes more players get bored fast and jump to another title - that's why there are more hack'n'slash games.

I can't say for sure, but it looks like Tera may not be suitable for you. Because "leveling a lot of alts on CH" sounds like you got them all crappy gear and haven't seen even 50% of the game. Have you tried HMs? Dungeons with actual mechs? Nothing wrong with being casual, but if you want to evaluate a game on professional level, you can't skip essential content. Maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like you try to review grind-heavy tryhard team game from the perspective of solo casual player. And it's like blaming fish that it isn't a bird. Some ppl want fishes, some prefer birds.

For almost every player from Tera golden age it's obvious that core concept (action combat mmo with lots of difficult PARTY mechanics) is the only thing keeping the game alive, opposite of what you are saying. What's killing it is lack of fresh innovative content, limited things to do other than neverending gear grind and total lack of communication between developer team and players (ignoring feedback from Western market that is the biggest, popular content getting removed [Crusades], listening to community feedback after years instead of months [gear revamp], bad optimalization, lack of transparency and not keeping promises by publisher). Treating customers like mindless wallets is actually pretty common among this particular genre, idk why.

Most ppl I know stay here just because of lack of alternatives when it comes to difficult skill-based action mmos and do not want to play solo hack'n'slashes. Two different markets. Idea is good, just the execution sucks.
One more thing - NA Tera is all about broken events that happen once every few months (bonus feedstock event, mongos, kyra, recent argon invasion). During these events, you usually can get a huge amount of enchanting mats (argon invasion was prolly unintended but even during Kyra I got more mats during 2 weeks of it than rest of 6-months patch - even without any jackpots). And it's not necessarily bad, it was hell to even +12 when alkahests were 40g each. But because of these events new players may find it hard to gear up because stuff is so cheap and you have trouble earning any money without grinding so much. Just hope for the next event like that and you will never be poor again*

*unless you get addicted to +15 enchanting or cash shop costumes
Hwasa wrote: »
Xandervb wrote: »
Skycastles were removed because their ownership used to be decided by Crusade that is also gone. They haven't tied them to any other ranking system. A bit sad because OW guild housing was amazing just for RP and social purposes (also mini tank duels because there was no crosshair on the floor there and it was more fun that way).

Why Crusade was removed? There were countless threads about it. BHS probably thought they can fill the gap with guild quests and CU. It worked for like 3 weeks, till ppl obtained most of essential guild buffs and noticed CU is boring unrewarding slideshow and you can afk it all, only coming for BAMs.


Well why did they remove Crusades then? I never got into Crusades, so maybe the answer is obvious to those who were into it but not me.

Ty <3

As I said, the reason for removing Crusades is unknown and totally unreasonable. Almost whole playerbase believe that it was a huge mistake that may be fatal to Tera in long run. It made BGs much less popular and greatly reduced number of dungeon runs. It was removed together with Alliance and shortly replaced with guild leveling and CU respectively. But unlike Crusades, guild leveling system is non-competitive content with diminishing results and extremely low daily cap.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Hwasa wrote: »
Thanks you guys, I appreciate getting all the responses I did! The EMP method isn't the way I wanted to go simply because money is tight and when I buy emp I like to get stuff for my characters or account in the store, but maybe it's cheaper to sell emp and buy stuff with gold in-game so i can stock what's left over, idk. Definitely going to farm some for Rootstock and try other methods outside of EMP though. So again, thanks you guy! *huggles for all*
Xandervb wrote: »
Have you tried Ace Dungeons? These take around 2-4 minutes depending on your gear and class, you can get some credits/fs/tokens instantly and in the long run you can save up medals for permanent etching II that will give you a nice burst of money. Celestial arena used to be profitable for low-geared characters too but idk about now.

Also, always enchant your weapon 1st (and your footwear last). +9 weap is nearly useless (and totally useless without perfect rolls).

Didn't think I was going to go flat broke and lose all my feedstock, or I would have planned it better.....my bad for sure. Thankfully I did get the perfect rolls I needed so it'll help a little.

But no I haven't tried Ace Dungeons at all yet! :O Sounds like I need to check those out.

I don't think ACE Dungeons are worth your time (but if you are really, really, really lucky you can get some misery weapon/armor boxes), I would take the suggestion from TWMagimay about doing more diverse content.

Why do you think that Ace dungeons are not worth it? I can't log in atm to check current energetic II etching price, but assuming that one run is 4 minutes max (including loading screens), only with medals you can get item worth around 15k spending less than 3 hours in game on ungeared character that can't even do high tier IoD BAMs. Not to mention that you also get tokens and small amount of credits and fs.
Skycastles were removed because their ownership used to be decided by Crusade that is also gone. They haven't tied them to any other ranking system. A bit sad because OW guild housing was amazing just for RP and social purposes (also mini tank duels because there was no crosshair on the floor there and it was more fun that way).

Why Crusade was removed? There were countless threads about it. BHS probably thought they can fill the gap with guild quests and CU. It worked for like 3 weeks, till ppl obtained most of essential guild buffs and noticed CU is boring unrewarding slideshow and you can afk it all, only coming for BAMs.
You can, but why? If you can't find a party now, you won't in the future either. Tera barely has any interesting solo content. I'd suggest joining a guild or creating your own LFGs if there are none.
Have you tried Ace Dungeons? These take around 2-4 minutes depending on your gear and class, you can get some credits/fs/tokens instantly and in the long run you can save up medals for permanent etching II that will give you a nice burst of money. Celestial arena used to be profitable for low-geared characters too but idk about now.

Also, always enchant your weapon 1st (and your footwear last). +9 weap is nearly useless (and totally useless without perfect rolls).
Anotsu wrote: »
what does it matter, the real game starts at level 65.

Maybe because changes like this are exactly the reason why "the real game starts at level 65"?

It's like saying that they can remove whole OW with most dungeons and just leave Velika, IoD, VSH and HH because that's all "real player" needs. There is a whole bunch of ppl who level their character, gear it with low/mid and make another. I personally also prefer to learn class during leveling than spend hours in IoD and warrior tank is one of the most challenging.
AnnLove wrote: »
Yeah you can queue as tank, but that's kind of worthless. 5 years ago we couldn't queue as tank but at least we had the aggro skills (though not defensive stance or cross parry). Now I can queue as tank but can't actually generate aggro except by threat and wrathful crystals, which are nice but don't make up for what was taken in this last patch.

Lol so basically warrior can que as tank without having any tank skill? Even gunner is more suitable for tank, they may as well let elin gunners que as healers because of bot.
Halrath wrote: »
We spoke to Bluehole about this last night. They said it is not intentional behavior and that it sounds like a bug. They are investigating it.

Thanks for the response! Too bad it took 4 threads to get any statement in such major thing. Still better than GF tho, which has been ignoring EU players on that matter for more than 1 week now
It came from BHS but yea, this is [filtered]. They fixed learning curve for DPS stance (you learn Scythe early and have plenty time to practice stacking Edge) and totally ruined it for tank stance. It almost seems like half their team knows what to do and second half are trolls.

I'm just curious - can you still que IM as tank early despite not having block or they remembered to fix at least that?
I checked EU forums, they got this patch a week ago. It wasn't in patch notes too and it looks like it also surprised GF team. The only statement their CM made is that he forwarded all the complaints to the team - and later that they "are working with BHS to fix issues brought by patch 59". But he didn't say which ones are bugs and which are intended "ninja nerfs/buffs", by "issues" he may mean i.e. just UI problems.

One thing is clear, things are not going to change in a matter of days if EU haven't done anything about it for more than a week now.
Xandervb wrote: »
This is dumb af, Thrall of Protection is 2nd most important skill for leveling dungeons. Most parties are matched with no tank and thrall with infinite aggro was actually a great fix for that. Jumping around boss for 10 minutes trying to get any backcrit time is not fun at all... This change will make game way more boring and annoying for new players and leveling experienced will stray even further from actual endgame.

This may not be a huge change but clearly shows that BHS has no clue how their own game works and we can expect more dumb decisions in the future.

Tera leveling is sooooooo easy nowadays

I didn't say playing without tank is easy, I said it's pretty annoying. If they want bosses to be harder, make them hit harder, more resistant, add mechanics etc. Spending 50% of fight jumping back and forth because boss keep turning and switching aggro every 3 secs is a terrible experience and is nothing like endgame. Tank shortage during leveling has been a real problem since a long time, what should be done is to add similiar offtank to priest early on instead of removing it from mystic.
TWMagimay wrote: »
Xandervb wrote: »
This makes mystic superior in PvE. But what about PvP?? You tell me that now in CS/FWC/CU you can heal only 4 random/closest people? Enjoy healing your archers and priests when meeles are dying at the gates lol. Mystic = loss now.

Nah, it doesn't lock on the closest to you but the closest to your crosshair in 2 dimensions, within 3-4m of the crosshair. If there's nobody between you and the gate, you'll instantly lock onto 4 ppl at the gate and not on the sorc 5m to the left of you.

Ah, I see. Still annoying sometimes but much more useful.

After checking patch notes I think this is a bug, nothing in patch notes and they should mention at least increased range there.
mollyya wrote: »
Many alt tanks/newbie tank blamed mystic because they had no chance to win aggro battle against thrall of protection and mystic had no reason to summon that creature when there was a tank in the party(glyph is lvl63)

Good reason. But I think BHS didn't bother to check how frequent that behavior is - I leveled 2 tanks to 65 via IM and mystic who kept summoning thralls happened maybe once or twice and stopped after explaining. But lack of tank while leveling DPS class happened like 60-70% of time.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Xandervb wrote: »
This is dumb af, Thrall of Protection is 2nd most important skill for leveling dungeons. Most parties are matched with no tank and thrall with infinite aggro was actually a great fix for that. Jumping around boss for 10 minutes trying to get any backcrit time is not fun at all... This change will make game way more boring and annoying for new players and leveling experienced will stray even further from actual endgame.

This may not be a huge change but clearly shows that BHS has no clue how their own game works and we can expect more dumb decisions in the future.

The only way you will be matched without tank is you telling the system that you don't care about the party comp, and even as it is now you are not granted to be matched with a mistic, so this is not a thing that will make much of a diference.

You either accept no tank party or wait a looong time to get just one clear. Chances of getting a mystic are pretty high too. When a leveled a mystic a few months ago I wasn't matched with tank most of the time. So let's say if you play DPS it changes your chance of getting a "tank" from ~40 to 70% and it helps a lot. But it also means when you play mystic it goes from 40% to 100%. Also, elin gunner is coming, with 0% chances of getting IM tank on release day.

It made priest inferior for leveling but that's not a reason to take that skill away from mystic. Thrall was actually a nice bandaid to fix lack of tanks. This change is not end of the world but something that makes game more annoying for no reason.

This is dumb af, Thrall of Protection is 2nd most important skill for leveling dungeons. Most parties are matched with no tank and thrall with infinite aggro was actually a great fix for that. Jumping around boss for 10 minutes trying to get any backcrit time is not fun at all... This change will make game way more boring and annoying for new players and leveling experienced will stray even further from actual endgame.

This may not be a huge change but clearly shows that BHS has no clue how their own game works and we can expect more dumb decisions in the future.
They used the wrong version of weapon AGAIN. It already happened with warrior event weapon. Make a support ticket.
This makes mystic superior in PvE. But what about PvP?? You tell me that now in CS/FWC/CU you can heal only 4 random/closest people? Good luck healing your archers and priests when meeles are dying at the gates lol. Mystic = loss now.
Valkyrie is the newest class - to attract more players BHS made it easy to play with insane DPS in PvE and godly PvP skills that look almost like cheating.

Other pretty easy top tier DPS classes are archer and sorc (both pretty easy to learn, sorc is better for high ping). Warrior has great DPS potential and is very fun but require a lot of skill so not really good first choice.

Brawler is easiest to level up because of short dungeon queues (it's a tank). If you decide to level it up via quests (a long way but Tera world is pretty), brawler has a 5min cd skill that oneshots everything in open world including final story boss.

Note that Tera developers don't try to balance classes, instead they make certain classes OP af, then slowly nerf them in upcoming months till it reaches the bottom of dps chart (this is to make ppl switch their mains and keep them "entertained"). Then they buff it again and the process continues. Ninja used to be god-tier, now is pretty average. Gunner was insane on release, then got nerfed badly. It recently hit the bottom and finally started receiving buffs. So no matter what class you choose, you will eventually see it going down to the bottom and back up.
If they won't allow it, I will kind of understand that - as far as I know, exchanging all costumes after race change is a manual process, and if thousands of ppl made such request at day 1 release, it would clog Customer Support for weeks.
If it's your first character, warrior may not be a wise choice. This class has a lot of mobility, almost unlimited iframes and high DPS but is also the one requiring the most skill even on basic level and worst learning curve during leveling (getting core DPS skill Scythe at lvl 60). If you are not familiar with universal combat basics (positioning, dodging, doing mechs) you may stay a trap for a long time trying to learn everything at the same time. Warrior indeed has a tanking stance that got massive buffs recently, but it's still way harder that lancer/brawler tanking and I won't recommend warrior as 1st tank. It's quite useful for leveling tho, because you can queue dungeons as tank for faster match.

Archer is a good choice, it is top-tier DPS with pretty simple rotations. Ranged classes tend to have it easier with some boss mechanics so good for learning.

Brawler is easiest tank class to play and recent changes (no GF cd) make it even easier. If you don't like waiting it queues, it will be perfect because instance matching for tanks are almost instant and there are always LFGs looking for tanks. I suggest watching some video guides before starting endgame content - for DPS classes you can just do what others do and learn that way, but you won't encounter another tank so you need to know what to do beforehand.

Zerker - I can't say much from experience because I don't play it. It's not very popular class. DPS potential and difficulty somewhere in between, if you feel that it suits you, try it. Despite having tanking stance, zerker tanking is almost nonexistent and inferior to lancer/brawler/warrior due to lack of party utility.
Exactly, main problem Tera has are framerate drops and I doubt 6-7 yo PC can keep it even on low preset. TBH I still don't believe in 30 fps in CU or CS, maybe if they downgrade graphics to N64 level...
P7YTFA93TL wrote: »
First of all, thanks for answering guys.
I can understand their explanations, I suspected that it was the speed of response when activating the skill but now I understand that it is also the chain of abilities, now if I understand why some roles are dependent on ping, I usually use the warrior, my ping is of 100-120, I think, after reading this, I need to decrease my ping if I want to get the potential of this role

120 ping is not that bad, and while it is true that warrior is ping-dependant, it is also one of the strongest classes with high skill cap that can get good dps even with moderately high ping. There are also some solutions for higher-ping players availabie.
When it comes to DPS, classes that rely mostly on a few high-cd skills (like sorc) are less ping-dependant because the only difference is that you can squeeze less filler skills between them. Ping-dependant classes are based on spamming fast-animation skills with low cd (like warrior). If skill animation takes 500 ms you don't lose much with 200 ms delay, but if skill animation takes 100 ms you lose quite a lot.

Also, some classes (reaper, warrior) have skill chains/animation cancels that can only be triggered within a certain timeframe. Like it's impossible to chain Cs->BD with over 200 ping because when the packet reaches server, your skill is already over.

Finally, tanks that rely on fast tap-block (lancer, warrior) are more ping-dependant than because you spend more time blocking and can squeeze less skills between boss' attacks. For brawler that auto-blocks during almost every skill animation more ping mean only less filler skills or perfect blocks.
It may be best to contact the customer support if you already made a new account.

Or you can keep making accounts for all your emails until you see a message that such account already exist.
If it's your first character or first time in certain dungeon, brawler is a better choice. For really good dps you need perfect blocks and utilizing RMB buff correctly which require practice, but for starters you can just mash random skills off cd and fully focus on boss mechanics. Both classes are tricky to master but brawler basics (hold aggro and don't get hit) are waaay easier.
So they nerfed self-res passives to the ground... to introduce p2w mount with self-res passive? 1 hr cd seems fair but I'm afraid we will be getting a new p2w buff every 6 months now (just like inners used to be once-in-a-lifetime expense and now we get higher tier ones every patch).
Is your gamepad plugged in by chance? It can cause memory leak.
Xandervb wrote: »
If it would give even half-decent exp for losses, ppl would que it and semi-afk or steal mama and throw the match in 30 secs. Even with 20% exp reward it would still be more profitable than spending 10-15 min trying to win with no guarantee.

There's a thing called que delays, the system worked fine before. They just need to fix it.

Right, forgot about que limit.
If it would give even half-decent exp for losses, ppl would que it and semi-afk or steal mama and throw the match in 30 secs. Even with 20% exp reward it would still be more profitable than spending 10-15 min trying to win with no guarantee.
@Denommenator Cross platform play would be amazing. If it's impossible to make PS4 and Xbox play together, maybe it would be possible to let them play with PC on different servers? Like, TR/FF becomes PC/PS4 mixed and MT/AV PC/Xbox mixed?
@Denommenator Thanks for the update! I appreciate that explaination ^^
WCWKXCHTTG wrote: »
Im a console player and im happy with no crossplataform , we have Neverwinter on Ps4 and have alot of players(dont take more than 30 sec to find a instane, no matter which one ) so Tera aint gonna be a problem , the problem right now is their release date , we all know that BDO are on its way to launch early 2018 ( and that was the chance to tera get a good ammount of players on Xbox) but since tera gonna launch in the same date as BDO i think its gonna lost a good ammount of their population (on Xbox obviously) .

PS: Already sold my PS4 and bought a xbox to play BDO , my hope was that tera would launch earlier than BDO but looks like it wont QQ

PS2 : how many players have each server on TERA right now ? about 5k? i bet that they can get more than that on console easily , or do u think a Free game aint gonna have thousand of players ? ofc it will and they know that , they dont care about crossplataform with PC cuz it will have more players than on PC

Neverwinter is a bit different story as it encourages spamming dungeons and has kind of "power hours", while in Tera dungeons have 1-2 entry/day limit. Which means even with same population there will be few times less dungeon runs.

Also, Neverwinter is ezpz game with very limited skillbar that for almost all content allows brainless button mashing as long as you have decent gear, while the main issue in Tera is lack of HM LFGs and IM taking forever to clear because ppl have no skill.
LesbianVi wrote: »
it is gonna be EU/NA together I think from what we heard, if that happens, so I think on each console we will have more players than NA Tera :D

I think you've heard wrong. Where are they going to put servers? In the middle of the ocean? They can either make separate servers for NA and EU (like for Kritika) or make NA servers and let ppl from EU access them with ~200 ping (which is exactly the case with PC Tera). Most ppl will choose EU/RU PC version with 30 ping over console with 200.
when you say all content, are you talking about alliance, the original island of dawn, or what we have now in the game currently?
also, with it not being cross platform servers, I kinda get the feeling the population will drastically decrease. I hope im wrong, but unless bhs pulls a rabbit out of its hat and saves the pc platform, consoles may be the only way to play tera this time next year.

I meant content the game has currently. Same patch or a slight delay.

While cross play with PC is debatable, I also think it's really unfortunate to have separate PS4 and Xbox servers. But we still don't know anything about IM/BGs, maybe it will be cross-server between consoles or even PC? Still waiting for that info.
Beta in 2017, final version in 2018
Separate servers for both PS4 and Xbox (no cross-platform between Sony and Microsoft too)
Up-to-date version with all current content
UI revamp for better gamepad support but amount of class skills most likely same as original
No info about resolution/fps/performance of final product yet

Source (look for comments section too):
http://www.geekscape.net/pax-west-2017-sneak-peek-with-en-masse-entertainment
I think I found something:

http://www.geekscape.net/pax-west-2017-sneak-peek-with-en-masse-entertainment

The 'article' is really brief and unprofessional. The only valuable piece of information is that during BETA there will be separate servers for PS4 and Xbox, which does not sound promising for those like me who still hopes for cross-platform with PC.
"We'll also have streaming/recording PCs set up and ready for those with Twitch and YouTube channels"

So, any streams?
Yup, just buy it. Enchanting/rerolling cost will most likely be higher than it's price, not to mention time spend gathering mats.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Xandervb wrote: »
@ElinUsagi, I can confirm you are wrong on many levels and I even don't know where to start. I think you should consider not giving advice until you get more experience and knowledge because all you do is making useful posts of other players less visible and shattered between your misleading statements.

Then feel free to post the defensive values on Ambush gloves +12 and Ambush boots +12 for healers, you will se that aside from the critical resist factor they have a diference of 1% on defensive stats and against Misery +12 they have less defensive stats also.

Maybe you are not even reading what I post in the first place and got confused on something else.

+12 Ambush set has lower ilvl than Misery. You can't even do HM dailies with it unless you boost your ilvl with other gear pieces. Maybe you can craft if for your IoD alt to be a special snowflake, but dumping Misery for it is a step backwards.

About "boosting dps" thing, you may not be familiar with DPS numbers in average party. From my experience, average PUG +12 dps player usually deal between 500k-1mil. Ppl in +15 LFGs usually deal between 1-2mil each. While priest healer deal around 10-30k DPS, less than 0,5% party DPS. Adding additional 2-3k with gloves etc. changes absolutely NOTHING.
@ElinUsagi, I can confirm you are wrong on many levels and I even don't know where to start. I think you should consider not giving advice until you get more experience and knowledge because all you do is making useful posts of other players less visible and shattered between your misleading statements.
For every class OTHER than healer, you go weapon (biggest dps increase) -> gloves (more dps) -> chest (biggest survival increase) -> boots (a little more survival increase).

For healer, you can go either for weapon (higher heals makes it easier to outheal debuffs and you can keep you party alive with less skills = less animation locks, more survival) or chest (you take less dmg and have extra hp roll = more survival). Both are not really needed, just give you a bigger margin for mistakes. For HH, +15 chest is in general considered more useful than +15 weapon. For other dungeons - depends on preference.

As mentioned before, you can't craft DW unless you are able to run a lot of VSH. If you want to go for Ambush, it's cheaper to buy than craft+enchant yourself - a lot of ppl who got DW are selling their old gear now. So either buy Ambush or sell mats and stack money for new patch.
It's not p2w, but it's grind-to-win. And unless you participate in these juicy events that EME holds from time to time - it's absolutely insane amount of RNG-based grind. And all your grinding becomes obsolete every 6 months when new gear comes out and all bosses' stats are adjusted to it.
The problem is that EME site has separate fields for first and last name, but when proceeding to paypal both appears as 'first' or 'last' name. I'm still able to finalize the transaction with no problems so it may be another issue.
Now that FWC is equalized it's my fav BG, when it was uneq I didn't run it at all. So personally I'm against it and I prob switch to cancer CS if this happens, I'm more for adjusting eq gear stats. But I also understand that PvP players want a place to use their gear, the main problem is that it's quite hard to estimate their numbers.
Everyone seems to talk about Normal Mode - okies, I can consider IM, if I que with a friend we can carry.

BUT, HM is 4-star dungeon, what the [filtered]? Imagine IM only for LKH! And it's 7-man, that means you have to basically 4-man the 7-man dungeon with solo heal...
Ginjitsu wrote: »
As kamizuma mentioned, there's a strategy to selling and buying. The options are there, you just want the most laziest option because of BGs ¬.¬?

Because of BGs and dungeons, so well, like whole gameplay. I believe broker should be optimized for common buyers and sellers in the first place, not for a few lowbaiting speculants. You can always afk in negotiations in you want the bait to stay there, or was it fixed?
W7GNYAP55A wrote: »

I would like to make some correction here. The majority of the playerbase who are boycotting are those who are using cheats, 3rd party programs, and just making it worst for the rest of us who doesn't use those programs. Most of them, if not all, are end-game players. Those same end-game players are the same ones WHO DOESN'T buy EMP with what's in their pocket. Of course you can argue with this, but I can speculate that most of end-game players understand you can buy most of those items with gold and most end-game players have that gold because well, they can run the highest tier dungeons with good drops to sell.

This idea that, "end-game players" contribute to EME as a whole and put food in their mouth is a no-no. They don't contribute anything besides playing the game for free and using their gold currency in-game to purchase EMP items or direct EMP from other users. The ones who are BUYING EMP and Elite status with real money are usually average players who want the benefits of EMP, but can't get because they're not fully equipped. Again, this can be argued all day, but I stand firm on this.

I agree that many endgame players at some point reach the amount of income when you can rely solely on in-game currency for elite and EMP store. But they still spend most EMP and create demand for EMP - their willingness to buy EMP at high (like 1:40) ratio is what motivates EMP sellers. They also fill the market with various goods - you sell EMP to shorten grinding but there have to be ppl who are willing to grind it for you. Cash shop does not sell much stuff directly and even available mats are often overpriced compared to broker. Not only they are biggest 'EMP sink' but also create a competitive environment for playing.

There are also players like me, who can easily afford elite voucher but still have paid subscription, because we want to support the game we're part of and it's a fair price. Or at least we wanted to.

Boycott was not only about 3rd party programs but there's already a thread to discuss that part, it's impossible to read now but it's not a reason to make another thread unreadable.
Ginjitsu wrote: »
There is an option that auto accepts on Trade Broker and its called "Buy now".

Yes but it adds a 10-15% tax. It's pretty tiring for the buyer too to make multiple offers and wait for the response (or usually lack of response) after every offer.
kamizuma wrote: »
what if I don't want to sell an item for the price I list it at?
Now I think even in a thread about reducing lag, there may be ppl who are against it because seeing good players dying during spike make them more confident.

i think some people misunderstands what was the purpose of yesterday's boycott. The purpose was not to harm community or EME profits. It was a way to show EME the number of players that is aware of current situation and actively disagrees with what is happening. Because they can't estimate anything based on forum threads - only a small fraction of playerbase is actively posting on forums and only a small non-representative fraction bother to express their opinion in 20 pages long toxic discussion.

I don't know what was happening yesterday in game because me and my friends were part of they boycott, but Steam stats showed way less activity. And these stats are still not accurate - because of Tera Steam being region-locked for some regions bothered by recent changes the most (populations with the high boycott support %).

Also notice that ppl who knew about boycott were mostly HMs-focused endgame players active on different community channels (Discord, guild forums/chats). Even if it's like 20% of playerbase, they are ppl who are highly involved in Tera - usually have elite status, are more likely to buy and spend a lot of EMP, create and manage the market, manage guilds, carry and train players in HMs. You can have 50% of community playing and your income still at 0 if they are casuals who run solo content and DFNM and have no need for anything EMP related.

Of course I'm not saying that playing casually is bad as we all started there. But I'm trying to explain that probably 80% of income is coming from 20% of playerbase, and player from that 20% is way more likely to support the boycott. That's why you can't interprete the raw numbers only. If you are looking for a way to measure, check how many raids participated in rally BAM, how many RMHs and LKHs were cleared, how many ppl in VM/fancy costumes were in HW etc.
First thing - please do not bring anything 3rd party related to this topic or this will most likely get deleted or hidden in 30-pages thread.

There were some threads about this issue before but afaik there was no response. The way that trade broker works is that if I put an item on broker for 100 gold, even if someone offers me 100 gold (my exact price), I still have to negotiate the price and pass through the whole procedure.

It's not even pressing 'accept' button, I have to press 'negotiate', then wait for buyer to accept popup, then negotiations window appear and we have to wait till both of us accept. What is more, the whole negotiation process can't even stay there and is easily canceled by movement and combat stuff - you have to whisper buyer to manually start all over again. This often makes you afk during boss battles for good 15-20 secs (you need to find a safe place first too as you can't dodge later). If it's a few embers I don't mind, but if it's 50k design many of us are gonna even risk wiping the party and blame the lag. Also, you can't trade in BGs. This is probably implemented so ppl won't afk, but then we go afk anyways just to whisper sth like 'in CS atm, can accept in 5/10/15 mins'.

I think this is unacceptable. This 'feature' affects almost whole playerbase, is here for years but takes minutes to fix (like one line of code? to trigger negotiations only if offered price is different than posted?). I understand that most requests here have pros and cons and therefore EME may lack resources to properly review that particular suggestion before forwarding it - like FWC equalization, fed bills store etc. But this one has absolutely no cons, there is not a single player in Tera that would say 'I think this is more convenient to use negotiate regardless of offer'. So I have no idea why there is absolutely no response from EME about this thing.

Why I made such a 'tl;dr' thread over a minor thing? Because this is what drives community crazy - repeatedly making and seeing threads about same subjects every month. As I mentioned before I am talking about things that are an obvious QoL boosters at very little or no cost at all. What we expect is an answer like one of these:

'This is up to BHS, we forwarded this issue to them and they confirmed to fix it in upcoming updates'
'This is up to BHS, we forwarded this issue to them and they confirmed to look it up'
'This is up to BHS, we forwarded this issue to them but are yet to get a response. We will update this thread.'
'This is up to BHS, we forwarded this issue to them. We don't request a feedback from BHS for even minor issue but we assure you dev team is now aware'
'This is up to BHS but we can forward only a certain amount of requests and there are other urgent issues atm, we are aware and will try to address that when possible'
'This is something that seem to require further analysis, we will try to look it up once we handle the stuff that's currently on the table'

Responding like that, letting players know that their voice is respected and they have impact on your decisions, that we are part of the process, is what made EME considered a good publisher. I remember many times when there was a thread and in the middle of nowhere Treeshark appeared (like a superhero!) and just said 'here, I fixed it for y'all'. This is one of the reasons we loved him! Now the forums, instead of being a tool for communication between staff and players, seems more like a place to vent some steam from players so they won't bother staff. I don't like that, solely this is what made me drop Failforge games.
There's no such thing as 'too much inners'! Last mongos gave every participant hundreds of them and the price of +16 crit got back to 100k in a few weeks. Now is lower again because of double GG drop but I guess it won't last long. I'm more than fine with GF because this little bit of RNG is more exciting that just looking at your feedstock count increasing.

The demand for alkahests will be huge soon enough - new mid gear and +15 scrolls won't work anymore on new VM. I don't say that enchanting mats should be the only rewards, but adding them can greately ease the 'new gear hits the market' pain.

I'm not a big fan of cosmetic events, chance to get one particular cosmetic that you want from the pool is very low, and the ones you get you often can't sell because the price drops a lot. You put them in wardrobe to sell a few months later and all excitement is gone when you cash in the event rewards months later (if anyone buys ofc).

But this is just my personal opinion, I don't deny that your requests are reasonable for a part of playerbase.
teoteodore wrote: »
I'm still a bit lost. I have only +18 crit factor --- gloves, innerwear, for a total of 68 crit factor. And I'm using a Carving crystal (as well as other back crit crystals). In a recent fight as a warrior, I tried my damnest to stay behind the boss, and still my crits were something like 20%, whereas two other players were doing 80%. What's the reason for that? Am I just inept?

Are you using Avatar weapons? These have something like 'instant crit bonus' that makes a huge difference. Never equip any non-avatar weapon even if it has better stats.

Also, dungeons are now a bit harsh because new DPS class is out and tanks are almost impossible to find. Try your best to stay at boss back, if you get used to it then when you get to endgame you will find it easy with a decent tank.

Also, if you happen get a mystic in party, ask him to summon Thrall of Protection. These little buddies can easily hold perfect aggro till they die (then you just need to summon another, it has very short CD).
Just let us vote kick between rounds in bgs already. This should reduce the level of badmouths, trolls and achievement farmers there.
Hey Dhrizzt, I think you mean the 'no spheres' glitch that is legal to use. Most dungeons allow you to skip certain mechs - SSH double debuff, BP circles etc. If you don't want to glitch spheres make a 'no glitching' lfg.

As far as I know you forced spheres on multiple groups by rushing Lache before everyone was ready. That's why nobody wants to run with you now. Haven't you noticed that there are multiple LFGs that fill up quickly and yours is still empty for hours?

I understand that you value challenge, but most ppl are bored with RMH after ~100 clears and just want to farm mats efficiently. You can't forcefully push your approach to Tera as 'the one and only right'. The Tera code is that LFG does not say 'not skipping mech' it means that party is skipping any mech if possible. I have no idea why are you so against RMH glitch but happily let healers skip BP in the same time.
Zoknahal wrote: »
You know whats funny? That this people defending injecting, probably know that there exist stuff like Pingzapper, WTFast and many others that do exactly the same, and are approved by EME, yet they decide to use a program that most likely will get em banned, because you injector user, know that they do more than just reduce your lag. Stop getting behind that excuse, why do you think RMHM was excluded from the weekend reward? I am quite sure you know the answer by now.

I think it's you that have no idea how it works. These apps you mentioned can only fix bad routing and therefore are useless for most players. If your routing is already optimal they won't just magically teleport packets across sea.
oh yeah? WOW it ONLY reduces lag? lmao. if you think thats all it does, you dont need to continue posting here.

Hard to say because I only know it from descriptions, but I'm pretty sure that's how 'clean' version is supposed to work. Meters may also have ton of optional extensions that make gameplay braindead but it's not a reason to go to Youtube and ban everyone who just shows dps on screen.
Pros: combat system (only thing keeping game alive), still looks good despite time.

Cons: insanely random-based gear progression system, bad optimization, bugs not being fixed for a long time (feels like playing on private server) devs seem to not play their own game much.
AkariReap wrote: »

I never knew this was possible, I'd like to get an answer from EME as well, if they allow this as a "handicap adjustment tool" instead of a "unfair advantage tool" i might investigate about this and use it, i play with 200+ ms as well, and in a game like Tera 150ms makes a huge difference

EME can never encourage or allow any kind of third party program simply because there is no way to valitade the quality and safety of said programs. There are only things that are 'strictly prohibed and actively chased' like botting apps, and things that are not allowed to discuss but not widely punished unless used to abuse other players (dps meters, gunner burst fire macros etc.).[/quote]
Muggsly wrote: »
Yeah, I say "Shinrameter" once time and get first attention previous a ban xD


Whoops you said it again.
I think most ppl have a wrong idea about injecting and feel hurt n inferior. From what I've read in descriptions, it's a tool that ONLY REDUCES LAG if your ping is HIGH. It does not go beyond that, it can't give you anything extra, only fill the delay gap. If you play with 40 ping you won't notice any difference. If someone has a high moongourd score he is skilled. Unlike things like speedhacks and cd removers in kumas that has been reported since forever, stuff like this won't give you any free dps.

It's like calling someone who can afford better isp 'p2w unfair advantage'.
What is your ping? If it's like 300-400 it may not be possible to enjoy some classes and content.

The game is generally friendly and gives you plenty of time to gradually learn your class during leveling. It does not have a good in-game tutorial tho so after lvl 20 you should prolly check a couple of guides or vids about gear and combat principles or ask for help in game.
So... you actually CAN request a simple bugfix from BHS and get it in a few weeks? Then why the [filtered] SS pizza indicators are still glitched after a year?!
If they can't despawn them they can just put an announcement in advance and restart FF. It's terrible, there's no way to avoid it and there are always corpses.
Don't make Imperator now. It will be weaker than new mid gear in a month. You can buy +15 weapon with perfect rolls cheaper than enchanting cost now.
YNMMLY9M39 wrote: »
Yamazuki wrote: »
In terms of mana, there's 0 reason to drop mana motes, Corruption Ring is enough. Also, you can lock on spam heal as a Mystic even at 65 and people won't die. Motes are mostly for the cleanse or emergency heal if a Mystic is far or dead. Although, while leveling a lot of rooms are small and have no mechanics that force you to spread. I've leveled 14 Mystics from 1 to 60~65 and I don't bother using motes other than for myself.

To be honest, I fully agree with your technique. I use the mana motes for times when I don't have anything else to do, to be quite honest. >.> Thanks for the info! :)

I believe it's better to just remove mana motes from skill bar. Why?
1. The DPS may sometimes pick up blue instead of red because they are close to each other -> DPS loss
2. Some bosses (Molek, Manglemore) may oneshot you if they randomly catch you in animation lock. Avoiding unnecessary animation locks is a good habit to strenghten all the time.
Blessings have been significantly nerfed in this patch. Most attacks in HMs hit thru it. It doesn't even protect from lache basic attacks. It was forgotten like Guardian Sanctuary.
Dokibun wrote: »
Considering that a BoL with everyone in inners and doing damage took us 45 minutes - I'd say the leveling dungeons were overbuffed.

BoL was always overbuffed for a first dungeon - it is painfully long with huge corridors filled with brainless mobs (that you can't kite in big groups like in most dungeons because archers immediately engage you in combat), a lot of bosses running, jumping, kd-ing and most ppl there have no experience or no avatar weapon (lvl 22 bc credits/tb weapon). It must be a real deal breaker after buff, at least we can skip it by powerleveling.
I've experienced this - one person deals 70% dmg, the rest is getting full carried, it's taking forever and you start wondering 'how are they clearing when they are matched without that one person? they stay there for an hour?'. But I don't see any current solution to this problem.

We can make extended tutorial or make some tips appear during leveling dungeons so ppl can learn backcrit, iframe etc. We can make everyone equip crystals before starting dungeon like we do with nostrums. But still the huge DPS gap comes from not priorizing high dmg skills. External guides are too overwhelming and i can't imagine in-game tutorial covering 'rotation'.
As previously said, motes are meant to be an emergency heal. A good mystic who maximizes party DPS is supposed to handle healing with just titanic favor. Yes, it's your only direct heal but it heals for more than 50% HP, has very long range when glyphed and short CD. If you are healing efficiently you are supposed to get your party HP from 0 to 100% in like 5 secs max (1-2 casts). If your DPS can't survive 5 secs without healing it's their fault, if they have to wait longer it's usually mystic. Your endurance debuff lasts >20 secs and you don't need to CR for mana unless you have sorc/fast lancer in your team - so unlike priest you can lock-on every party member before they even lose hp.

Motes are used mostly for self-cleanse, emergency cleanse, DoT or mechs that prevents you from healing/cleansing the party (LKH stun until you finish CR, RMH pushback).
It happens every major patch. I wonder why EME staff is yet to respond this time, this should be addressed ASAP because for sure some ppl stackes vg credits instead of MWA.
It is working but servers are laggy af so you may not see any dmg.
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