TERA Online forum archive
Posts by Vunak
These lists are always hilarious.
Anyone that says TERA is balanced in either PvE or PvP needs to puff puff pass.
To bring back PvP:
  • Class Balance
  • BG Points Back
  • Actual VIABLE gearing ability on par with PvE grind
  • CS 30+
  • EME sponosered PvP events (Skyring Slam/Canyon Clash)
  • Leaderboards - Crusades
  • Win Conditions on GvGs
Lapomko wrote: »
If BHS just made a built-in lag compensation like what proxy does that would make proxy useless. Problem solved.

Korea is small they wont do it because they don't see any issues like this over there.

If you have a large ping then do what everyone else does with a large ping and get used to it or move. Using a proxy doesn't just "lower ping", the people that say that are fooling themselves. It wouldn't make Proxy useless, people would still use them for the other things it allows you to do.

People that use Proxy are a plague, especially in PvP.
Should be fixed. No bug should go uninvestigated. Don't get your hopes up though. Knockup retaliate bug has been around for how long now?

I would rather they look into actual GvG changes. Bring back win conditions, because these endless GvGs are horrible.
MistyTera wrote: »
Lots of this can be found on Essential Mana.

A lot of people that are having these issues wont know what essential mana is. So having something here helps as well.
It is funny to see that FWC the BG that gives the best reward and probably the most popular has the least days on the calendar. I don't know if they are doing it to push people into other BGs or if EME is just again showing they are disconnected from the player base.

Grid is being deleted as a BG for a reason. Just saying.

Jackpots are getting better at least. Progressing in the right direction. All we need now is Essences.
.
L3HDX7N9WL wrote: »
I don`t really agree with this Tier list! I would actually say that the classes in Tera are so unbalanced that it is almost impossible to rank them. Yes before i go forther this is and will be a cry baby comment because this is a fact. Tera was never a very balanced mmorpg, in the past Lancers were super strong, berserker could ez 1 shoot u etc....But now days look at the classes. The brawler is a Tank class with more dmg then a Reaper and more def as well, they can block while attacking and that makes them both very dangerous because of the dmg and the fact that u can`t hit them cause they are blocking. Gunners are indeed the worst class in Game, if u think that the Valkyrie is bad, then u will love the Gunner. Gunner are a range dps ( range dps should`t take much dmg cause they attack from range lol xd) but they wear heavy armour!!!!! Really bois?????? A range dps with heavy armour that has a healing robot and a healing glyph on Burst fire. Not only that but they can kill u with 1 AB or 2 if u cloth or leather. Well compare gunners to the sorc for example, in my opinion sorc are the worst class in 1vs1 atm..... u are cloth , u got 0 healing glyphs or skills, warp got a nerf, after the revamp the sorc don`t crit at all ( making u only the glas not the cannon), they have the smalest range compared to archers and gunners, and they are harder to play then archers and gunners....
I hope u guys understand my point, I think u should rank the classes separatly like (Range dps/ Meleee DPS / Tanks) and not rank them all together cause as i said the classes are unbalanced in Duels and in pvp all together!!!!!!!!!!

Sorcerer doesn't crit it's true. But we aren't helpless in a dueling environment. We can stagger and stun people from range, Stagger Sleep is still very strong and proper usage of i-frames and warp barrier can make us extremely difficult to pin down. Not to mention the buff to our traps not breaking on Valks dodge.

The only issue Sorcerer has right now is its abysmal damage average in comparison to other classes because they don't crit (which is more an issue in large scale than anything). However with Gyre/nerve/stun/sleep rotating Sorcerers really don't have any horrible match-ups aside from maybe a good D-Stance Warrior or a good Lancer.

That said. I'm not fond of the revamped Sorcerer because it nerfed our potential for combo's which was a large reason I enjoyed Sorcerer and a huge reason Sorcerers used to be super strong in duels. We could 1 combo like Archers can now. Unlike Archer however, before revamp a Sorcerer could one combo any class regardless of armor type. Sorcerers could put out 300-400k of damage in one combo pre-revamp.

Sorcerers role changed from the extreme damage to a more support/CCer. When Sorcerers do crit it can be pretty devastating though.

Would I like to see Sorcerer return to the highest damaging AoE class? Definitely. But I don't see it happening unless the awakening skills make it happen. But we will have awhile to wait before then.
Not really. If you go into 3s or any PvP environment outside of maybe a duel trying to DPS, people won't be very happy. Especially in 3s where its more apparent if a healer is healing or not. This will likely get you kicked from a match.
Before +15 became a thing, PvP was alive. The game was alive. Sorcerer "revamp" wasn't a thing.

Leaderboards, Skyring Slam, Canyon Clash, Sky Castles, Vanarch, GvG. Things that should have never of been removed.
ACKTFFXW7A wrote: »
Tera itself was already a good example of a game where all classes were well balanced. Virtually all classes had the same odds in 1x1 before the game got Free To Play. WildStar is another game where classes are well balanced.
Its really is impossible to make a 100% balanced game, but it does not have to be something as bad as Tera.

I never said that it is impossible for a Zerk to kill a good Gunner, I said that it is necessary to play much better than him, which is a truth. Obviously there are very good Zerks who will kill a good gunners...

What game have you been playing because this is completely false. TERA has always been a roller coaster of balance. When the game came out Slayers destroyed everyone except for a well played Warrior. Priests were the best dueling class because they could roll reflect on gear and kill through that. Conjunct patch came and warriors and lancers became the supreme rulers of 1v1 and 3v3. Warriors still are probably the best dueling class out, minus the OPness of the new classes when they released. Lets not forget when backstab used to reset.

Wildstar was completely imbalanced around all aspects of the game. Stalkers could one combo people out of the gate. Medics were stupidly strong and not even a Stalker could kill them solo. Stalker tanks were unkillable in RBGs because of their evasion and heals off evasion. Then Espers became damage machines with their DoT stacking. Stalker could literally one combo someone from stealth, backdrop back into stealth and do it all over again to another target. You couldn't escape it either cause they could keep you Stun chained the whole time not to mention their first set bonus/runes.

All MMOs are roller coasters of balance. Every class has counters. That's why I said it's better to choose a class you enjoy rather than one to counter one class because you are going to have a counter some where else. If you get good with a class you enjoy first, it's more likely you will overcome that counter since you enjoy it enough to learn that class.
sludeater wrote: »
The idea of the battleground jackpot calendar has become obsolete. I pvp all the time, and this is the first month I didn't even bother looking for the calendar . Its not because I dislike the rewards, but because it takes hours for anything except FWC. FWC isn't tera's best battleground either, so that is disappointing ay. Plus the atmosphere has become something out of lord of the flies.

The reason FWC pops is because a large part of the community do actually think its the best BG, hence its own discord channel. Just saying.
Lets at least try this month and don't leave us hanging for days on end to get the rest of the Calendar. Also better rewards that aren't a complete slap in the face to your PvP crowd. Thanks.
Shout out to Zyros and Xeroshu for setting this up.
X46Y4P45G9 wrote: »
So you mean a berserker can only beat a gunner if they are noob? What Ahrii said is a truth. If you fight the counter of your class you will need to play 3x better. The same skilled gunner and zerk fighting each other would be a Stomps against the zerk.

Tera is horribly balanced, because there should never be a "counter class". A well balanced game all classes must have the same chances of winning in an X1 and only the play style should decide who will be the winner.

No. I've seen top end zerks down very good gunners. It takes more skill yes, but its not impossible. Knowing how to avoid AB and keep pressure on is hard for Zerk against gunner but its not impossible. Zerks are extremely dangerous in the right hands.

No game is balanced perfectly. TERA is more out of balance than it used to be because of new classes and class updates, but its not like other games are more in balance in comparison. Every game that includes a class system is not balanced. I dare you to find a class based system where every class is balanced in 1v1 with equal odds against each other because that doesn't even happen in fighting games, let alone a game that balances around a class design.
Cross server LFG isn't going to assist in server events like CU.
papy10k wrote: »
[

people who drop raid should be penalized. 15m drop is not enough

That won't help anything at all. Will just take more people out of queues.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
EME doesn't know what to do with PvP and how to make it active again. Gameforge making changes to their version of the game s hows that EME has the power to do it, they just don't care enough about the PvP community to actually do it.

We need like others have said useful things from PvP. There is absolutely no reason a PvP player should be forced to do PvE to gear up.
  • Jackpots should consist of Essences, Emeralds x 4, Triple BG boxes, Diamond, Entropic Tokens
  • ]Leaderboards
  • GvG should have a lose condition again and if you don't counter declare within a certain time frame it should auto surrender
  • Low Level CS, I dont know why this was removed in the first place rather than just split between two queues, one for low level and one for 65
  • Vanguards I think should be worth 1.5x for a win and normal for a loss, simply because failing in a dungeon isn't very typical unless you're doing the hardest dungeon in the game and when you complete it, you put it on clear anyway
  • Bring back EME sponsored PvP tournaments
  • Laurels for actual PvP battlegrounds 3s and FWC

I agree with most of it but not about the vanguard's rewards.

Giving the normal amount for those who lose would not be benefical for the healt of the BG's (compromise from players to try to win).

Maybe giving to losers a box instead of a scroll?

Boxes don't matter. They are to RNG to be worth anything with everything it drops, that's the point. FWC already awards a box for a loss.

I don't know if you know the current health of BGs. People leave as soon as soon as they get wiped on mid, sometimes before if they see who they are against. The health of BGs is already terrible it needs new blood and rewarding people for staying in for the whole fight is part of that rather than wasting 15+minutes staying in a losing fight for 1 rng box you are probably going to get wood scraps from.
EME doesn't know what to do with PvP and how to make it active again. Gameforge making changes to their version of the game s hows that EME has the power to do it, they just don't care enough about the PvP community to actually do it.

We need like others have said useful things from PvP. There is absolutely no reason a PvP player should be forced to do PvE to gear up.
  • Jackpots should consist of Essences, Emeralds x 4, Triple BG boxes, Diamond, Entropic Tokens
  • ]Leaderboards
  • GvG should have a lose condition again and if you don't counter declare within a certain time frame it should auto surrender
  • Low Level CS, I dont know why this was removed in the first place rather than just split between two queues, one for low level and one for 65
  • Vanguards I think should be worth 1.5x for a win and normal for a loss, simply because failing in a dungeon isn't very typical unless you're doing the hardest dungeon in the game and when you complete it, you put it on clear anyway
  • Bring back EME sponsored PvP tournaments
  • Laurels for actual PvP battlegrounds 3s and FWC
Ahrii wrote: »
I dont know i just cant apply it to tera. Its near impossible for a lancer to beat a gunner., zerker cant win vs gunner, mystic no matter what is barely viable in team skyring.. Stuff like that just cant be avoided no matter the skill.

I'd say yes at top end. But like I was saying a top end Zerker would destroy a gunner that doesn't know what they are doing regardless of the counter. So putting time into a class you enjoy and are more willing to learn is more important to just finding a counter to a class you don't. You are just going to trade one counter for another anyway. If you put in the time to learn and master a class you will end up winning more matches in a 1v1, 3v3 or FWC if you aren't focusing on one thing like being a counter to one class.
Ahrii wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
Icha has a pretty good description of how Sorcerer does in 1v1 and what matchups are less favorable.

You can find it here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12Ds1wKSPkIworcyJazuZUwJFAdixTserrys5Mx40BFM/edit

But if you are choosing a class or looking into a class just to kill Sorcerers you aren't going to be very successful. You need to find a class you enjoy and then master it. That is much more important than finding a counter class to one you don't like, as even if you play a classes counter you're still going to get smashed by someone that has mastered their class. But good luck.

Thats not true in Tera. Ive seen people who have triple the skill of the person they're fighting yet lose the fight because imbalance.

It's a little bit different when a new class comes out and its not balanced at all in comparison to everyone else. There is a difference in being a counter and being completely OP.

There are plenty of Sorcerers that can defeat a D-Stance warrior in 1v1 because they are more skilled than them. D-Stance is a pretty heavy fight in the warriors favor against a Sorcerer. But without proper practice with D-Stance a really good Sorcerer will beat a D-Stance warrior even if its not in their favor.

That's why its more important to choose a class you enjoy, not only that but you are just gonna end up trading one counter class for another.
Icha has a pretty good description of how Sorcerer does in 1v1 and what matchups are less favorable.

You can find it here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12Ds1wKSPkIworcyJazuZUwJFAdixTserrys5Mx40BFM/edit
Not sure I agree with this. It's like the old forum slash where we used to have class forums. Even though they weren't used a whole lot, some of the discussions in those class forums were good and gave out a distinct location you could find info about your class in future updates and things of that nature. Now in this new forum I haven't seen any of that because those forum sections don't exist anymore.

Pushing PvE and PvP into the same General discussion just seems like things will get buried faster and not get the attention they deserve.

Of course its not like you guys pay attention to the PvP forums anyway so maybe this will be better for us.
Spacecats wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
I don't know where the line is for grind vs fun if I did I would be the Community Manager for TERA and EME.

I think you misunderstood me a little since I was asking for your personal opinion. Just based on how you play what what you enjoy, why would you say the event is a grind? Again with the discussion focused around the topic of Wintera.

I think it's more a balance of to get the "best" reward you have to do 70 matches or 100 wins if you want the title vs actually doing something worth while. While the rewards may be fun for new players, I have hundreds of elite boxes so the consumables aren't anything I am interested in and the other cosmetic items I have had for years. I think this is the case for a lot of long time TERA players. Everything that is coming from those boxes are things a lot of people had years ago.

So for long time TERA players it really isn't an event worth doing since a lot of us already have all those items and it would be taking away from actual progression to even run it just for funsies. If there were new things added or new things to acquire more people may have been more satisfied and would of seen it as worth doing. The only new thing would be the titles, which again 100 wins can be daunting.

So its not a super significant grind, but its also not worth it in the grand scheme of things. Sure its fun a few times, but a lot of us have been doing it for years now.
Spacecats wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
TFW a seasonal event gets more attention from the team than the entire PvP scene.

@Spacecats

Also, more on topic. Seasonal events are supposed to be fun and rewarding not feel like a ridiculous grind. Take a hint from FFXIV who run events all the time and are generally liked, because they balance grind and fun pretty well and give people plenty of time to actually complete them. You guys have been dropping the ball lately a whole lot with the TERA community.

I don't have any suggestions because the suggestions that have been made for the PvP community have all been ignored, so I have no hope that you will actually listen to suggestions for this.

It's hard to respond without having an example, but where do you draw the line between fun and grind here? At its core Wintera's basically about throwing snowballs at people and earning reindeer horns and other holiday accessories. If after a while you feel like you aren't enjoying Wintera, why do you feel the need to queue it over other BGs or dungeons?

As far as PvP I feel like that's a whole other topic unrelated to Wintera. I'm sorry you feel like your PvP feedback has been ignored but this also isn't the right thread to give it without derailing the conversation.


I don't know where the line is for grind vs fun if I did I would be the Community Manager for TERA and EME. I would also love to queue other BGs like FWC with friends but unfortunately the PvP community isn't supported very well and we have to use a community discord to establish matches to force it to pop. I used FFXIV as an example because they are always running events throughout the year that the community generally enjoys as a whole. A lot of the events TERA runs you end up with threads like this. Its a simple observation. Lets take a look at the EU event for the holiday season and compare it to an event we have had for 3-4 years now in a row.

Starlight Celebration in FF has been happening every year since 2004 starting in FFXI and yet every year they are able to come up with new and interesting things for their players to engage in with fun items. I realize you guys don't create content but it is the Publishers job to be creative and engage the community.

Unless you guys have something amazing hidden up your sleeves to end out the year, 2017 for NA TERA has been a serious let down. So much in fact that I and many others who have been playing TERA since the game released in the NA and some even before that quit for months and some who aren't returning. When you are losing dedicated players that have been loyal for years its time to take a step back and look at what is wrong. Not recycle the same things over and over. Again, a look at EU TERA shows what a publisher is capable of doing for TERA and how far one wishes to go to engage their community.

Also, there has been plenty of feedback from the PvP community and there hasn't been a single response so I took the opportunity to post in a thread that was gaining attention from you guys.
TFW a seasonal event gets more attention from the team than the entire PvP scene.

@Spacecats

Also, more on topic. Seasonal events are supposed to be fun and rewarding not feel like a ridiculous grind. Take a hint from FFXIV who run events all the time and are generally liked, because they balance grind and fun pretty well and give people plenty of time to actually complete them. You guys have been dropping the ball lately a whole lot with the TERA community.

I don't have any suggestions because the suggestions that have been made for the PvP community have all been ignored, so I have no hope that you will actually listen to suggestions for this.
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We are making our way back to TERA to join back in on the CU and GvG scene. We are a laid back but efficient guild that has overcome a lot of obstacles, placing higher than what should be possible for a smaller guild. We have gone by a few names in the past, Quantum and Finesse among them. But we are back as Aeonian again and here to stay.

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Lol you guys actually went through with these jackpots for an entire month. You guys are a complete joke, stop spitting on your PvP community.

For those wondering since mEME seems to be to busy to actually post the calendar in their PvP thread here:

http://tera.enmasse.com/news/posts/december-battleground-jackpot-calendar
I mean does it really matter with these Jackpot rewards. Its pretty clear mEME doesn't really give a [filtered] about PvP
What stopping them from putting them on the same server? Sony and Microsoft. Its that simple. Neither one wants to play ball with the other, its been like that for years.
Emerald. Essence. Double BG boxes. Entropic Tokens.

That'd be worth queuing for. Not sure why they are so against Essence games. Its not a tradeable material so its not going to do much if anything to the economy and it would give a way for actual PvP players to get them. The random boxes are not a good source and everyone knows it.

PvE players aren't forced to do PvP. Not sure why PvP players are forced to do PvE.

Their jackpot feels more like a kick in the teeth.
A few weeks ago, Halrath or someone said that EME had no plans to run a strongbox key event in the near future. This was in October though so it may have changed, but since its not on the development road map I wouldn't get your hopes up.
Frostmetal +7 full set should be fine for FWC. I get equalizing people below that. But there is no reason someone in full Stormcry and daylight accessories should be equalized.
If TERA ever had a server that stopped at like VM1 I would play it in a heartbeat. TERA was so much better when we were at VM1. No stupidly OP classes, PvP was worth doing, Vanarch system, GvG was alive and kicking, leaderboards still existed, 3s was alive.
> @tisnotme said:
> I want one that leaves blood n guts n distruction in your steps

That's called being good at PvP
Toi wrote: »
ILots of stuff

Thanks for going through the Sorc history, I didn't feel like doing it as I was on my phone and trying to type all that would have been painful.

Yes when I said more dangerous I was talking about when we had our 6 seconds stun, nerve not breaking on damage, Flame Pillar hitting like a truck etc. People tend to forget how stupidly strong Sorcerers actually were at their pinnacle.

You're right about Celerity for some reason I thought they hadn't increased the cast time of Nova and Pillar to match pre patch.
Sorcerer Stun duration lasted 4 seconds with stun reduction at level 60 cap. It later got buffed to 4.8 seconds with stun reduction. The Stun duration now is 3.2 seconds with stun reduction, so yes it was much longer. If these are off I apologize, I cant remember if these were exact since its been awhile since those changes were made.

If you think Nerve sucked prior to it breaking on damage I don't know what game you were or are playing, and if you think even with it breaking on damage now it sucks I really don't know what game you are playing. There are all kinds of ways to Nerve someone in all forms of PvP to be devastating.
> @Pumpedd said:
> Sorc now has less counterplay than before. Im talking about when they didnt have warp barrier ( which shouldnt even be a skill ).
>
> Perma celerity lowered the skill level of many players and made many new players too reliant on being absurdly fast.

You forget that If we are talking about pre warp barrier, sorcs had instant gyre. A much longer duration stun and one of the most broken things in the game. Nerve didn't break on damage.

Celerity was somewhat of a nerf because we have overall less attack speed than when we had celerity as a usable ability.
Ardire wrote: »
man you pvp junkies are the king of everything-- skill, drama, nostalgia humping, like u guys got it all

except that ow pvp video was one of the most boring things i've ever laid my eyes on and the guy who said sorc was funner pre-revamped must've been coked out of his mind

Sorc pre-revamp was way funner. You must of just been a bad Sorc or something pre-revamp, because Sorcs pre-revamp were way more dangerous than the revamped Sorcerer. If you could finesse the pre-revamp Sorcerer with interesting combos you could pull off some seriously crazy [filtered].
Pumpedd wrote: »
ARFLMDRLGD wrote: »
I disagree my good sir. New classes are definitely rough, but old classes such as sorc and archer still thrive in large scale PvP and people who mastered the old classes are just as terrifying if not sometimes more than the new classes. With sorcs being able to CC healers for extended periods of time, Archer ROA not splitting damage,



And tell me this. Are archers and sorcs ''old'' classes anymore due to revamp?

No. Thats my point. The ''NEW'' classes are completely over bearing. Archer and sorc are new classes now.

Sorcerers were way more dangerous pre-revamp than they are now. The combos and things a Sorcerer could land before the revamp far exceed anything the new Sorcerer can do.

So yes they are still old classes. Mechanically they didn't receive anything that even compares to anything the new classes actually have.
Atorisan wrote: »
Why isn't this published by EmE ??

Are the retards at BHS went over 9k the [filtered] scale and choosed the worst garbage publisher possible : Kakao (the morons responsible for the Grind/Afk game that is Bdo), as an Ex-Bdo player in Europe i would take even gameforge than Kakao any single day!!

I guess i'll just uncheck this game off my list, just like i did with Bless when i knew Aeria games is going to publish it.

Also who's the idiot who said ? Kakao can be trusted in big title ?

I might sound aggressive, but there is a min level of stupid a sane person can endure per day, and the above informations have enough stupid to last for few years ...

The only thing Kakao did that was really bad was horrible server location. Kakao isn't behind the actual development of BDO. That is like blaming EME for class imbalance in TERA. Kakao is just the Publisher. Pearl Abyss was the developer behind BDO and all the games bad systems like fail stacking and endless grind all fall on them.

However I am worried they will place the servers in the same location as BDOs and have terrible performance like BDO because of it. I never understood why they decided to put the servers on the furthest part of the west coast away from their highest areas of population which would be the west coast... I mean there is a reason League and other games moved their servers from the West to a more centralized location.

That said I would of rather of seen EME get the title. EME is a lot more personal with its community than Kakao is. EME does streams and things of that nature to get information out. But its not like EME is perfect. I am honestly just glad TRION didn't get it as that would of been another good game wasted on a terrible company.
> @Spacecats said:
> Moving to off-topic since this isn't exactly TERA related. Still we are excited to see Project W from Bluehole and it's really cool to see the game emerge for the public.

I figured you guys would, but was gonna Let you guys move it. Also why isn't EME publishing this new BHS game? Seems Like you guys would be their first choice.

@Spacecats @Halrath
TWMagimay wrote: »
Could they try to rip-off ArcheAge any harder?

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Everything I saw was pretty much its own thing with inspiration from a few games. The only thing I saw that screamed ArcheAge was the gliders and that isn't something ArcheAge did or invented. Which isn't something ArcheAge made or invented.
Honestly, there are so many ideas in this trailer that seem tenuously (at best) connected to the central theme that I can't really figure out entirely what they're going for. I guess it's an MMO like TERA but it has aerial combat + housing + gardening + a bunch of weird mini-games? So many of the things in there were like "oh, that reminds me of TERA" but they put some twist on it, so you can definitely tell it's by the same company, at least.

Also... seriously, why would they include footage with framerate slowdown in their trailer...? I realize it's supposed to be a gameplay trailer, so it's all rendered "in-game", but... at least make sure the trailer shots are optimized... (It wasn't even like "cool slow motion for effect" or anything - it's just like "oh, the game can't handle this and dropped to 20 fps"...)

Anyway, it seems tentatively interesting, but I'd need a lot more information to make sense of it all. Right now it just feels like TERA in a blender with more steampunk and BDO influence.

That was pretty much my thoughts when I first watched the trailer. There is a lot going on without much direction to drive the trailer to show off what the game is about.

Yeah I don't know why they wouldn't prepare a trailer that wasn't laggy. You would think a company that is pretty notorious for not so stellar optimization with TERA and even PUBG and would make sure their newest game isn't immediately thrown into the same category with the very first trailer lol. First impressions and all that.
Legolam wrote: »
No Elins? pass.......

They showed a small snippet with the actual GStar trailer itself and it showed Elins. It could just be for the TERA M game or it could be a mix of both. Not sure.

ARFLMDRLGD wrote: »
I disagree my good sir. New classes are definitely rough, but old classes such as sorc and archer still thrive in large scale PvP and people who mastered the old classes are just as terrifying if not sometimes more than the new classes. With sorcs being able to CC healers for extended periods of time, Archer ROA not splitting damage, Lancer Giga, Warrior on single target pressure...The new classes did not kill off PvP. The game is the same, the new classes make it easier for those who have not played for 10 vm patches to kind-of play on par with those who have. The true death of PvP comes straight from the community. No reward was needed before in "the good old days" other than epeen and knowing that you (or your guild) are better than someone else and basically proving that.

Dont forget that the first couple weeks of CU, Manifest fought practically the entire server and still held the top rank. When people saw they could not beat Manifest they said "CU is dumb im just here to [filtered] around back to PvE CU is a waste of time" and left. The alliance reason was probably a way for them to secure the rank one (which they have proven they can get consistently) without forcing their entire member list to log in. Know the full information before making accusations.

All in all, game wont change because community wont change. I suggest you all have some fun where you can, dont take the game seriously anymore cuz the people who [filtered] on the forums are the exact people who dont instigate PvP to begin with and play victim to their own lack of content. Just enjoy what you can and play other games in between.

The point Pumped is making is, yes everyone knows you can be good on older classes, it takes considerably more mechanical knowledge, reaction time and general skill to be good with older classes in comparison to newer classes.

Manifest didn't fight the whole server. They had strong allies when that was all going on in the first weeks. They also had really good placement with a huge bottleneck on the ramp up to their tower which negated a ton of the numbers being thrown at them. Nothing wrong with that, its just smart. Also they didn't win. It was a draw or Treehouse won I cant remember. I think the first one was a draw with Amateratsu's tower and Mani's tower still standing and then Treehouse or someone that wasnt Mani won the first CU on MT the following week. Then Amateratsu backed out and it went downhill because people started quiting CU when they realized that two hours spent got them absolutely nothing. It wasn't because people realized they couldn't win against Mani. It was because even if Mani went down they still weren't going to get anything out of it unless they swept the whole of CU and came in first which wasn't plausible for a huge portion of the playerbase.

Also lets not forget that it took EME like 2-3 weeks to even get CU to work properly for the first time, which caused a lot of people to not even participate when it actually did work.

Just saying.
Here it is, the trailer from Media Day GStar 2017



BHS is the company that made TERA and has been working on Project W for awhile now. For the stickler that thinks this isn't TERA related when its related to TERA by association of it being made by the same development company. hurrr hurrr.
Chicago is the best location for servers outside of the more expensive servers on the backbone in like NYC. Chicago is the closest to the highest population densities across North America so it makes sense that they cater to the largest group of individuals.

Most of Canadas highest population areas are on the east around Michigan. Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal etc. are right in that area.
Also the most populated areas in the US are on the East coast as well. NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, Philadelphia etc.
There have been mass DDOS attacks happening across the US. It wouldn't surprise me that TERA is being affected by them in some way. There was also a Level 3 configuration issue that was going on that could of been a large reason for lag happening with TERA.
Lol you guys got baited hard by Lux.

Also these rewards are pretty terrible. The Emerald is fine, but we need a PvP only way to gear completely. Meaning at least Essences.
Mirakael wrote: »
lol - anyway, a dumb suggestion:

Since we have "Fine Focused Niveot" for enrage monsters - what if we'll have a crystal for enrage players too? (for pvp) xd

Incease Crit Power against Enraged Players by +1.78

How do we know if they are enraged? Do they use Caps Lock a lot when talking in Raid chat or something?
Holy mother of carebear Batman.
I remember first instance of being grief'd...it was horrible!!!!!! i hated it!!!!!!!!!! but because of that person I improved my skills, learned how to fight better and even killed them back. It used to be so fun to hunt PKs and made the PVP gear worth getting. I honestly loved the fear and thrill of not knowing when or if someone would come by to PK. It was always fun to see a red name coming towards me and I had to decide if I was going to run or fight.

I must Agree with you, my first time being pked I felt so humiliated, Like how dare they, haha some little lvl 25 archer. I was lvl 23 and I couldn't understand why I couldn't kill her back when i went back. turns out she had instance gear and I didnt know anything about that, so I learned about it and lvled up and looked for her again but I never found her, however I started running into a bunch of red names so I started killing them instead haha and IT felt good, It was awesome! at this moment I fell in love with open world pvp and tera.

I had someone in the facebook group share this video back when tera was the game we loved xD

God... that video makes me cry for how amazing the game used to be, but also how fun Sorcerer used to be before the revamp.... WTB pre-revamp Sorcerer pls.
He is saying he wants to be able to use multiple accounts to farm tokens.

He wants to be able to use his metamorphic tokens on his alt accounts to buy a material or item that is tradeable. Trade it to his main account, redismantle it into metamorphics on his main account. Effectively move metamorphics from account to account. Not character to character.

Which is asinine and would [filtered] the economy so. gg.
If a majority of players are all under ilvl 448 than a majority of players are going to have equalized gear which means equalized BGs. That isn't the issue as to why BGs aren't popping. Has nothing to do with equalized or unequalized and everything to do with EME being stupid and not knowing how to actually manage a game and its communities needs.

@Spacecats and @Halrath

You are literally living up to Einsteins definition of insanity. You have been giving us the same thing, same rewards per gear patch and expecting different results. You ask the community for ideas on how to improve BG pops and get more people into PvP. But you didn't want to hear about rewards which is what everyone suggested. EVERYONE agreed on that. People that want EQ and people that want Unequalized all agreed that the rewards for the BGs are horrible.

Why then are you going to squander this. People are coming back to the game. I saw a ton of people at VO last night that I hadn't seen in months. They were trying to queue FWC, but couldn't because nobody wants to spend that long in a BG to get nothing. So and this is a direct quote from one of those returning players from a year+ of not having logged into TERA (on answering my question if they were coming back to TERA) "No, BGs are dead I thought I would be able to come back and queue old Unequalized FWC, but nobody is doing it."

You are going to lose these players again, waiting a month before you make changes. That is the most asinine thing I have heard in a long [filtered] time.
Are you sure we will still be able to actually craft DW after patch?

The conversion charts they showed, showed the DW materials as "degraded".
They could add more, but honestly I don't trust BHS to develop an actual PvP BG.

That said If they were to and do it right. They need to add in multi queue to cut queue times.
The best way to learn that I have found from ones own mistakes is to record yourself and go over your own footage. Look at what you could of done better in certain situations and try and correct it later in other situations.
It's a PVE game because KTERA mainly does PVE. BHS doesn't seem to care to much about other regions so long as the money is still flowing. If they did they would of never of removed Leaderboards, removed crusades and would of given us some legitimate GvG to do that had some meaning to it. They would of stopped removing old content pretty much and changing things for the worse.
Unfortunately I don't really think this is an EME decision. Its BHS that doesn't want to release the talent system to other regions even though they know it is a significant difference between regions, even though they deny it publicly.

There are a lot of changes in the talent system that could and would bring classes closer together. I think I remember someone saying that in PvE (I don't do much PvE so someone else would have to verify) that they had to add a damage boost in instances or something to that effect in other regions to compensate for the damage boosts KTERA has over other regions because of the talents and content actually being balanced around KTERA and not other regions where the talent system doesn't exist.

I was talking about this tonight and how its a large problem and we will never see a truly balanced or nearly balanced TERA because something this significant that could balance out the classes quite a bit is missing in other regions.
Yeah, that is unfortunate. I guess I will just have to adapt to a new control scheme type. Thanks for the reply
So I am an old player and I am used to the old control scheme. I haven't played in a long while. Is there a way to change the way the camera and I-frames work to how they used to be. I am a Sorcerer used to the camera controlling the direction of the I-frame not the movement of the character itself.
Go here Pumped and use this utility and follow the instructions: Display Driver Uninstaller from Guru. You likely have some residual left over from AMD that is causing issues. Uninstall are your GPU drivers with the utility and then reinstall your Nvidia drivers. You could also get CCleaner and clean up the registry of anything left over after that to be thorough.

Also a motherboard can cause a lot of issues if it isn't up to snuff, it isn't just the "hold parts" component it is effectively the first calculation and if it is off it can cause issues throughout your system. What is your power supply rated for as well because you could be starving the GPU of power.
lul certain classes and builds not allowed new players always so scared of old players who master the good new classes lul

Old good players don't play new easy classes since a unicellular organism could "master" the new classes.

I likely won't be participating in the tourney, but Mica and me will likely login and watch. GL with all the logistics of the tourney Pumped. Kind of curious how you are going to match people up with gear, or rather what gear will be allowed in the tourney.
EME doesn't have to make contact with hackers or developers. If they took a hardline stance and got their legal team involved and started issuing suits against these developers I would be extremely happy and they would win based on case law as there is already precedence for it.

Remove all the toxic players that need these handicaps to be successful or the illusion of successful in game.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
Especially as a community liaison like Tonka was and knowing what the community wants but not having that feedback given and forwarded being listened to or used at all.

No thank you, he is good outside from here, a person who came to a game and add 40% of damage reducciton and aditional buffs to an expecific class on a BG just because some complains for people that don't want to be focused on them don't make it a good community liason but a cryer liaison.

He was one of the factor why the PvP started to die in the game as he never touched certain players that were griefing against new players over the years he was on Tera because those players were his friends.

No thank you, Tonka is good being far away from Tera.

Do you actually read what your write before you post it because I am seriously starting to wonder.

Tonka didn't have any control over what was added to or removed from the game, that is just completely asinine to think otherwise. He was a community manager. The only thing he did was interact with us in-game, on the forums, through streams and create community events (Canyon Clash and Skyring Slam being two of those events). Has there been any actual community events from our last two community managers that even had a clue about PvP? If Spacecats tried to commentate a PvP match it would be disastrous since he doesn't actually understand much about the classes/abilities or inner workings of PvP or the game in general. Where as Tonka actually did a fairly decent job at it and got people interested in PvP during those events.

Spacecats isn't a bad community manager he is a definite upgrade from our last, but he also hasn't done anything for the PvP community since he as been here, where as Tonka actually did. I mean that one lady Danicia or whatever her name was thought Baraka was a class so you can't get much worse than that.

Borsuc wrote: »
So with things like the "[KTERA] July Suggestion Board Review Results" not mentioning anything ever said in this thread (or about PvP for that matter), I'm guessing that says everything.

Thanks for nothing @Spacecats.

Yeah. I really didn't expect anything different to be perfectly honest. BHS doesn't and has never really cared about the NA market aside from being their main cash cow. Which is really asinine as they could be making a ton more money if they actually put the effort in to listen to the NA market.

It sucks because TERA still has a massive amount of potential and with the proper marketing and patches they could easily gain back a massive amount of players and appeal in the MMO world, not just with changes to PvP, but with changes to PvE and overall content progression.
gib wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
On the other hand we do have a gear revamp system coming in so perhaps the gearing won't be as gated as it is now and non equalized vs equalized won't be as big of a deal like it used to be.

new gear system is cancer to enchant getting +9 top tier gear is like harder than +15 now

I'll reserve judgement until it comes to NA. Nothing EME or BHS has done in the past inspires confidence, but still, I wont judge it until we get it. Which is more just me having wishful thinking that EME will actually do something to make things a bit better for their market.
Borsuc wrote: »
But combos with nerve exhaustion work(ed) mostly on people with high ping (or inexperienced), so that's not exactly saying anything. Plus it's beyond easy to interrupt (by a teammate) since it takes too long, not to mention you have to crit (not exactly a high chance for a sorc back then vs a priest). Eventually it turns more into a game of luck.

On the other hand I've soloed so many priests (yes as sorc, but I was playing only on EU back then) during VM1 and even VM2 times (when it was uneq obviously). Back then so fewer people whined about imbalance than today, because the game meta was in much better shape. And no I don't care about new classes since healers are old class, so compare them with old classes.

Ah I remember the times priests had to be careful (remember even Emar's video in those times, so very old) with giga and carefully using GS against it when you had to come closer to your team. Now? Spam that thing off CD, such mad healer skills, wow.

Sorcerer could crit easily against a Priest back then if you built your Sorc the right way, and crit really hard. You didn't have to pull the whole extended Spirited Away combo to kill a Priest, that was more for Lancers/Brawlers. Even Fireblast crits could completely wreck a Priest, anyone really.

There is a misconception that I have fueled myself, so apologize. I am not lauding 3s now compared to how it was back during VM1. It was way more competitive back then and much closer together in terms of balance and it certainly wasn't as gear gated because awakening wasn't a thing. I hate the way gear stands now and how non equalized would cause a lot of imbalance because of it. But equalized as it stands now isn't exactly balanced either. That is the only point I have tried to make in this whole thread and I have kinda gone off subject a lot.

I want equalized, but I want it done correctly. Actually scratch that, I want a gearing system that doesn't cause massive disparities between the top and bottom so people still have something to work towards. But as it stands now that isn't going to happen, the only reason I say non equalized is because if it stays equalized the way it is now there are certain classes that will not perform all that well and there isn't anyway for those classes to improve (obviously not talking about skill, just hard numbers) in comparison to other classes.

On the other hand we do have a gear revamp system coming in so perhaps the gearing won't be as gated as it is now and non equalized vs equalized won't be as big of a deal like it used to be. But this is wishful thinking and likely not going to happen, which in that case I hope they revamp the equalized gear in ways that allow for more customization and bring the classes closer together with stat weights.

Borsuc wrote: »
Yeah, because of gear. There's 2 types of PvP people, those who enjoy small scale arenas like Skyring and want to be competitive at it, and those who only play it casually or not at all. The latter group is completely irrelevant, yet they are the ones who usually have gear (as they also play PvE and such) and people always look at them look how many have gear but don't queue. Such nonsense.

The former do mostly Skyring and rarely other content. Those people don't stack crap between patches, and they need to practice a lot. Not waste playing time doing PvE. You don't look at them cause they usually aren't geared for more than 1 patch in any game. It's as simple as that.

I find it hilarious that people think unequalized will bring *back* people who quit for a long time. People who quit for 1 patch, maybe, since they have stacked up mats, otherwise extremely unlikely. Plus, that's just FWC. Most people who love FWC all day will never be good enough for Skyring, just the way it is.

Do you know what made people who quit TERA come back to EU? Equalized premade event. Even if it was temporary, they came back just for it (and quit after again). Because there is no barrier to entry after having quit (they already have skills, probably a bit rusty but w/e). Nobody will come back when he's playing something else to farm gear before he gets to play what he likes in TERA. What's the point? He can keep playing his current game and enjoy it instantly. Gear (and farming) is nothing but a cockblock for competitive PvPers and old veterans.

I don't even care about the uneq FWC coming back or not, I want Skyring Team equalized, so it's a totally different point (to whoever mentioned it). I mean this thread is about ideas to improve existing BGs.

It had nothing to do with gear and everything to do with experience. We were fully geared +15 going against fully geared +15. Had the gear been equalized it would of been no different than the outcome we saw. Saying things like people that FWC will never be good enough for 3s is part of the reason why a lot of players that would do 3s don't. The 3s community is extremely toxic to players trying to get into it. Even in solo queue where it is meant for practice you have people getting kicked for whatever reasons or people like Arooo who kick just to stack his own team.

If they ran another Skyring Slam tournament we would likely see a huge surge of old players come back and participate and it would likely have more lasting power than an equalized weekend as it would show EME is giving an effort to support the PvP community again. The total lack of PvP support and pushing everything to PvE for gearing and everything else really put a lot of PvP players off from this game. When they announced that Skyring and Canyon Clash weren't going to happen anymore, we lost a lot of good players.

  • They should bring back BG credits.
  • Bring back leaderboards
  • Bring back Crusades
  • Bring back legitimate ways to gear through PvP just like PvE
  • Bring back old FWC, where pillars meant more so its not just a massive zerg fight vs zerg fight and more tactical in nature
  • Bring back Skyring Slam and Canyon Clash
  • Let us random or multiple BG queue
  • Revamp the equalized gear so it doesn't cause the disparities it does now if its necessary with the new revamped gearing system
  • Some new maps would be nice as well just to change things up


MiskuChan wrote: »
No you're not, the great thing about having a small 3's community is that everyone knows who got 1800 or 2k + getting a BR weapon from FOK doesn't count.

Show me a +15 sorc breaking a +15 priest with all etchings kaias with one void pulse please I'd love to see it. Archers back in vm1 were worse than they are now, minus the invisi traps. Damage output in general was way higher percentage wise in vm1. I'd also love to see a skyring match in +15 where a sorc solo'd a +15 healer, never happened wouldn't happen. But feel free to prove me wrong show me a video of it happening.

Whatever you say.

There were only ever a few Sorcerers that knew the combos that could one combo a priest like that. Impulse, Spirited, Me, maybe Icha.... Spirited Away. But you apparently don't remember when a Sorcerers Nerve Exhaust didn't break on damage and they had some of the craziest combo's out, or when VP could crit for 70k.

I admit I don't know about +15 now vs +15 now since like I said I haven't done a lot of team queue since most of the people I used to play with quit a long time ago and I haven't had much incentive or desire to jump back into team queue. Like Oneil, Ratouch, Avo, Bloody, Demoralize, Silerious etc.

Its a bit difficult to breach into team queue 3s now, as I have tried to bring a few skilled, but new players into team queue only be matched vs Poke and numb to get smashed into oblivion since they weren't used to looking for Giga and all that in something like 3s and then lost all incentive to queue anymore, which sucked because it was fun regardless.

But like someone else said, non equalized is on its way back so we shall see then along with the gear revamp what it does for PvP. Hopefully it brings back some old players and it has sustaining power. Will it ever be as good as it was back in VM1, doubtful.
MiskuChan wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
Irrelevant Skyring Slam had +15 gear as well. And yes Healers are still killable just as they were back in the day. More so because Kaia back in the day actually shielded for more because people weren't putting out the damage they are now.

No, that's stupid.

One void pulse or half a radiant arrow charge could break kaias back in vm1/vm2, even a single wallop could do it and zerker thunder strike was no problem. Many classes could also solo a priest in vm1/vm2. Now, with 10 second GS, 40k kaias and triple cds also crit resist etchings and attack speed etchings, it's basically impossible to solo a +15 healer with +15 gear. Oh I also forgot about dyads lul, relentless and warding luls.

Not to mention how easy it is for lancer/priest comp with rallying cry and guardian shout.

It's blindingly obvious you're either new or never played 3's back then.

We didn't have classes like Valk, reaper, revamp archer etc. back then either, so the damage certainly wasn't at the output it is now. One VP or Arcane Pulse could easily take a Priests Kaia now as well so that's kinda moot especially in equalized. But yes I exaggerated, but I could one combo healers for days before Sorcerer revamp +15 vs 15 easy. I haven't really put the time in post revamp to do the same admittedly.

Lancer/Priest/?? has always been a really strong comp. That is more a Lancer thing than a Priest thing though, rallying and guardian shout I mean, as they are still a strong comp with a mystic and auras. Just depends on the comp they are fighting which healer would be better.

I'm a Blood Rave Sorcerer.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Back in the days EME did tournaments Tera was a game that could brag about gear not being a real factor to win at PvP, these times are not those my friend, now gear can carry and diference between comple BiS gear vs Misery and mid tier jewellery are around 30% or even more. Also in those days healers were to broken that no class could even take them in 1v1 much less on mass pvp, or are you going to deny even that?

That is why I keep saying that if uneq BGs are going to come (that is something already confirmed) then to make BGs fair you need to 1)Revamp the matchmaking so you don't allow that 30% of disparity in matches or 2)not let anyone who doesn't have BiS queve for them.

Now most people that cries here about EQ gear I can asure you that will come here to the forums crying about how broken are the new and revamped classes on PvP because they never cared for class balance but only to be able to play with "my gear". Then they will also keep crying (because they already are) about how anyone can know what team is goind to win only looking at the team comps.

Tell me something that really will change in uneq that will make stop people to complain about those things? They already say EQ gear is the problem and making them UNEQ will solve it and you know tha is a lie.

Irrelevant Skyring Slam had +15 gear as well. And yes Healers are still killable just as they were back in the day. More so because Kaia back in the day actually shielded for more because people weren't putting out the damage they are now.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Many things that you and others have been complaining about eq gear is because you compare many times situations in 1v1 and a few times in 3v3, but most of the times you don't even want to acknowledge FWC and CS are not an individual match or not even a small team comp match but a Mass team comp match. Team work is the key and if one class don't need that teamwork as others then make them imbalanced.

Is way to obvious that strategic there will be a lot diferent that in 3v3 or 1v1 matches, tell me were I got it wrong.

And for the other talking about things fair and unfair on eq and uneq, there will be always more unfariness in a match where you have more varialbles to take into account for making the teams who are going to battle. Unless the Match Making is not revamped to not allow players under BiS then you will have more variables in uneq gear BG than in eq BG making the game more about who have better gear than skills it self.


No where have I ever said anything even remotely close to 1v1 situations. You seem to read what you want to read.

I have talked about both FWC and 3v3 which are the two top PvP style BGs. FWC is completely skewed in the wrong direction with equalized gear because of how certain classes interact with the equalized gear against others. A Sorcerer can run in and nearly nuke an entire group instantly with an Mana Boosted Meteor Strike out of giga or ground pound. That doesn't happen in non equalized. Lets not even talk about what Valkyries can do in equalized gear compared to non equalized since they are tuned from the start to be extremely strong or reaper.

The skill caps in non equalized have always been much higher than equalized.

Lets look at how EME did the tournaments way back when. They didn't put people in equalized gear for a HUGE reason. They let people pick their gear and rolls. in Skyring Slam and Canyon Clash both. EME could have set up equalized matches, but they didn't do that because the equalized gear has never been balanced.
ElinUsagi wrote: »

Are you aware that you are complaining here about class balance and trying to point that fault at the gear?

Also are you aware that the same classes and skill would one shot others if they are not at maximum gear level at uneq pvp?

Are you aware that a lot of that happens in Equalized but doesn't in non equalized, because certain classes perform better in equalized gear than others that need the boost from non equalized to perform just as well?

Again, do we have to wrap this back around to how classes and gear interact with each other and how?

Arcane Pulse can completely one shot someone in equalized, but can't in non equalized for example.

That isn't a class balance issue that is a scaling issue. Which is gear related.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
I am not really sure what kind of gameplay on PvP you are looking for but mostly for I can read about what have yuo posted is no the fast paced one but he one that will take longer to fulfill teams their objetives.

If you lok for fast paced combat and great rewards/punishment for positioning and good/bad desicions then go for healers that can be killed in a second for bad teamwork, however if you like long timed combats where the only strategic is based on how much you can endure a long timed battle then go for healers that will be as hard like a tank or even more to kill and they will be ignored during all the battle because there will be no advantage to trow your attacks against him because it would be an useless effort.

Nobody is saying that, honestly everything I have said is all about fast paced gameplay. Fast paced doesn't = fast kills exclusively. You are being contradictory in your "hardcore" when all you want is easy kills. DPS in this game is very easy to play, especially with classes like Valkyrie, ninja and reaper, warrior etc. A healer can play near perfectly catch a KD from a Valkyrie and get crit for over 100k from Dream Slash. That isn't rewarding or "hardcore" PvP and there isn't a much you can do about that. It is extremely hard to peel a Valk and that skill is nearly instant.

In equalized I have one shot people with Arcane Pulse. That isn't rewarding, seeing 80-100k from Arcane Pulse which should never happen and would never happen in non-equalized.

Your last statement is completely false. If that were the case then Healers wouldn't be focused in non-equalized which isn't the case at all. They are focused harder than any other class. Constant pressure. You and Borsuc seem to deal in absolutes, which PvP isn't so black and white. It isn't, if I can't one combo them, they don't die. It's I keep pressure on them and keep their MP and HP low so a teammate comes in and finishes, or while I have the healer completely busy with staying alive from me, their DPS dies.

If a healer burns Kaia and GS or Thrall they are very vulnerable. Put enough pressure on a healer and they will burn them, which gives the other team a tremendous advantage to push for a kill or seriously turn a fight in their favor.

Also healers do have issues with MP when they are being focused in 3s. They can manage with the skills they have which is why you probably don't see healers talk about it as much. Also Sorcerers are a HUGE bane on healers MP in 3s. I have won countless 3s matches because I know when to time Mana Volley and Siphon skills to do maximum damage, leaving them at literally 0 mana and DPS low on HP in desperate need of heals. It is extremely hard for a healer to recover from that when its used at the right time. A lot of Sorcerers don't know how to do that though so that probably has a lot to do with it.
Borsuc wrote: »
GW2 is not a good example. The meta in there is laughable and is one reason I hate it to begin with. I'm seriously tired of "tankiness" and "respawns" personally (I mean, it's fully equalized, why do you think I'm not playing it anymore?). It's prime example why TERA should not go down the same path. Fast kills (unless interrupted or saved; you must think fast to save your teammates) and no respawns is definition of hardcore PvP.

Can't comment on Wildstar since I've never played it. As for warrior, no I said it should have a chance to kill a priest with enough crits/edge, not have it impossible.

Well I know we're not going to see eye-on-eye on this one, but I'm still posting just to keep the thread up.

However, I find it absolutely [filtered] a healer can spam GS and still not be vulnerable because he's more than half the [filtered] time immune to stuns (uneq). Can't say I've played a game where you were immune to stuns more time than vulnerable to them as a healer. Is that "hardcode" PvP for you with almost no strategy at all on using such a strong skill properly? All I can say is "meh". TERA used to be hardcore, it's gone to [filtered] now without eq. Using a strong skill at the wrong time must be a very punishable mistake for me to even consider the PvP "good". Second chances are [filtered].

Mana management is another laughable thing with uneq gear (i.e. too easy). Wait is it even a thing there?

I will also keep posting because I want this thread at the forefront of EME's mind.

Time will tell if TERA's PvP scene picks back up. I have a feeling with the new gearing system and changes that are coming, nerfs to Valk etc. that we are going to see a surge in the playerbase. Hopefully EME and BHS will have their act together when that happens to actually retain those players.

As for GS, it doesn't make them immune to CC and is easily countered. They can still be completely harassed with staggers and KDs, which warriors have an abundance of.

As for mana management, its very apparent you haven't played a healer in 3s in non equalized or equalized, they have some pretty severe mana issues in both with pretty poor mana return skills. Mana Charge is their only real mana return skill which has to charge to use and it doesn't return all that much. Mana infusion goes away after they take damage or use a combat skill, so its useful for a very minor boost, but that's it. Mystics have their blue mote.

Nice. that chain sleep on the last round in teamq was dirty.
Borsuc wrote: »
Right, because while DPS may not have CC breakers in this game, they can dodge, just like healers can. Most games have no concept of such a thing. You can't expect healers in TERA to heal as much as in tab-target games when every class has several dodges on low cooldown, it would make it a super stalemate everytime.

Except there are games that have that, Wildstar for example. Has dodges, CC breaks and very powerful and strong healers. Crowfall has CC breaks, dodges and very powerful healers. You can even argue GW2 now since Tempest and Druid are a thing. No it wouldn't make it a stalemate, like I said, the TTK is much lower in TERA than most other games. It isn't like we are talking about a healer prancing through a field of daisies free healing whoever they want without any worries.
Borsuc wrote: »
Staggers are indeed able to be used offensively but I thought that was a given, seeing as how we were talking about lack of CC breakers in TERA.

I don't even know what you are trying to say here now honestly. The point is you can keep someone completely CCed in TERA indefinitely if you so choose to do so. Healers being chain slept by a Sorcerer and a Healer is a very real thing.
Borsuc wrote: »
But he has to crit, which is perfectly normal. If a warrior does crit and gets luck on his side and he still doesn't manage to kill a healer, then he will *never* be able to do it. I don't find that balanced, at all. Makes no sense why a class bent on supporting others (main strength of healers, not survivability) is also unkillable in 1v1.

Why not have a DPS that is also unkillable and kills a target other than the one on him? How would that be balanced? In 1v1 he'd never die and yet in a group fight he'd be able to survive one DPS on him while at the same time killing off someone else (same as a healer survives one on him while also healing someone else, basically doing 2 things at once, unlike the guy trying to kill him like warrior, doing just one thing at a time).

What are you even trying to say here at this point? A warrior shouldn't have to crit to kill someone, they should just get a free kill is what you are saying? That is completely asinine.

That is exactly what a healers role is, to survive and keep their allies alive... to help them survive. If games didn't want healers to be a survivable class then they wouldn't get self heals and their defensive CDs wouldn't be completely centered around themselves. A healers main responsibility is to keep themselves alive -- then their allies. Even in PvE, if a DPS is about to die and so is a healer, the healer keeps themselves alive because they are more important to the group as a whole. Same thing in PvP.
Borsuc wrote: »
If DPS in other games can heal themselves (and are generally more useful, relative to healers) that means healers deserve even less power in TERA to be "balanced" relative to a DPS. If a DPS can heal himself, a healer obviously needs to be better to be able to stay competitive (otherwise, imagine if DPS can heal himself as much as a healer can heal him, what's the point of healer anymore?). However if a DPS can't heal himself (or does it very poorly) then healers are, again, even more important/overpowered for filling that problem.

Just because a class that isn't a healer has a defensive CD like a heal, that doesn't make them more useful relative to a healer. Healers have just as important of a job it just means that DPS can handle a stressful situation for a moment in case their healer is being focused or in a CC etc. Healers are still vitally important.

In TERA the TTK is way lower than most other games, yet in other games the heals are still extremely strong. Healers in other games are generally stronger than healers in TERA.
Borsuc wrote: »
Good point about CC breaks though, but I'm guessing TERA's staggers (in general) provide better peeling than most other game even for classes with no other "support skill".

Staggers are a good tool, but it isn't strictly defensive in nature and can be abused pretty good for offense as well, in the case of warriors, slayers etc. Where as in other games the CDs are used strictly for defense and staying alive. Not to mention the CC immunity that gets built up over time. Like the resolve bar in SWTOR.
Borsuc wrote: »
Anyway I find it pretty stupid for a healer to negate the damage of a class designed around one target (i.e. warrior) while still healing his teammates perfectly fine. Can DPS get buffed so that, while they focus on one target, others also get damaged behind them or whatever (not with AoEs, as if healers don't have heal immersion/circle/kaia etc)? It would be more fair then.

It's not even only the squishiness that's the problem, but healers with CDR -- another over the top crap.

You are right and wrong at the same time. A warrior being a single target focused class should be able to put a ton of pressure on a healer or any class for that matter. But that doesn't automatically make it so they should be able to kill a healer or another class for that matter because of that. They have the easiest CC to land in the game and the easiest engage with the most i-frames, yet they still put out very high single target damage.

You can't just weigh one classes strengths and not the other.

Borsuc wrote: »
[Yeah, but if a warrior can't kill a priest in 1v1 at all then that is extremely unbalanced and makes no sense either. A warrior in eq gear needs some luck to kill a priest -- which is perfectly balanced and let me explain it further.

A priest isn't just about survivability. If it was, he'd have no skills to heal others. You're comparing a scenario and want the priest to survive any class (well warrior) in 1v1. A warrior is not an AoE class so that's all it can do: pressure one target (more or less). While the priest's REAL utility relies in cleansing others, plaguing, healing others, providing shields like Kaia, and so on. How the hell is this balanced?

A priest is not a "paladin". It's not supposed to be tanky and survive against any class, that's absurd. If it could, then lower his heals on others to pathetic amounts and remove such low CD cleanse and plague and so on. Make him a tank, a paladin. What games have you guys played? I've played games where healers cleanse was single-target only and had like 8s CD (and also it removed one or two debuffs, more chosen at random) -- and yet you think these healers, with such insane support, deserve to survive against any class 1v1, for real?

Even BHS got the memo. Gridiron was, initially, an uneq battleground. They decided to lower heals because of how absurd healers are in uneq gear. Such a tanky class does not deserve to have such insane amount of support on other players. Healers expect that if they have bad teammates they're supposed to keep them alive while also surviving themselves, but that's [filtered]. DPS must absolutely care for both offense AND defense and no amount of healer proness should be able to get the noob DPS out of that corner. Yes I know it sucks relying on DPS as a healer, guess what? DPS hate relying on healers too.

Healers in TERA always have been through the roof to the point where players got so used up with it that they think it's imbalanced if they get toned down a bit. Just because they've been spoiled for so long. It's as if Gunners at launch were complaining for getting nerfs because, well, "a gunner is supposed to one shot you with AB! it's a gunner dude!" or other bad logic not based on balance. They were used to imbalance.

TERA is different from other games. For one Healers in other games are a lot harder to kill. Healers in other games generally have powerful HoTs, multiple shields, or through the roof single target heals that they can throw out rather quickly. Not to mention in other games DPS can take care of themselves easier than in TERA because they have self heals, or other defensive CDs they can pop to keep themselves alive (druids going bear for example). Also in other games their is CC immunity so you cant be chained stunned or slept and every class gets a CC break.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Here is something that i think you don't get. 1v1 healers are hard to kill with a build for that I agree but in BG if healer go for the build to do the support role as it should be then solo comboed with a dps class should be easy to kill,if a healer dares to enter a BG with the same build for 1v1 then it should be punished because they are not tanks and shouldn't aim to be superhealers and supper resistant to damage, it is not balanced to have a support healer class in a mass pvp that is inmorthal due to be the hardest class to kill (unless you have the best of BiS to counter that healer).

It is not competitive to make a class a nood class to please noob play. Healers focus are one of the more common strategics in BGs for a team to succed because you know that you will risk being killed in the proccess but if you succed then your team gain a great advantage but if healer will need to be killed by 2 o 3 dps then where does this strategy lies? it is lost complete then Healers become the safe class to play and the most rewarding for the least effort in game, if that would be the case then I would rather then that we can choose our team composition so we can have a 15 healer team vs a mixed class team so you will see who wins.

Stop clompaining for something that is not anormal from many other "competitive BGs" unless you want Tera to be always a casual game where it would lose even more PvP player base against other games.

Many old and new MMORPG has been doing things properly to make their game competitive while players in Tera want it to be always a mediocre PvP game experience in BGs.

3v3 strategy and larger BG strategy are two completely different things. In BGs, the general strategy is to focus healers because you can overwhelm them with relative ease, and its very hard to peel against that type of focus in BGs. Which means in BGs they are being focused by multiple people usually at all times. If they were able to be bursted by one DPS, how balanced would that be when they have a team focusing them down? There would largely not be a place for healers in BGs at all. As it stands right now in equalized, their role is downplayed a lot because they are very easy to kill. You don't need to focus them down as much in TERA because one DPS can keep them locked pretty hard, especially a warrior or another class with a lot of CC capability.

On the other hand in top rated arenas in any game, your kill target is generally the squishiest DPS class (depending on composition). You keep pressure on the healers so they can't firehose heal, make them burn CDs, keep them CCed/interrupted to keep Healing Done as low as possible and keep up max dps time on their squishiest target. Then when you see a window where CC is ready to push max time again, CDs aren't ready, you burst. Outside of that, its a lucky crit or chain of crits that cause kill target switches.

So no generally healers are not easy kills for one DPS, because in large BGs and even in smaller scale they are the focus of very intense pressure that they need to be able to not only survive through but be able to heal their team through as well at the same time.
Borsuc wrote: »
Contradiction much? Are healers incredibly important, or are they useless in eq gear? Or what am I missing?!? You can't have both. Why is it that 2 DPS vs 1 DPS + 1 healer tend to just give up if healers are so useless in eq gear?
Depends on the 2 DPS vs 1 DPS + 1 Healer. I know multiple times where I would go in on a healer and a DPS solo let alone with two DPS because I knew I could keep the healer CCed long enough to burst down the opposing DPS. I've even won 3s matches where my DPS and healer died but I was able to pull the win by keeping positioning correct, CCing the healer with sleeps and bursting the DPS behind pillars and picking up motes that my mystic dropped (granted that is before revamp Sorcerer and we could do things like the Spirited Away combo. Not to mention 2 warriors could eat a healer and a DPS for breakfast depending on what the other DPS was, or two Valks, two reapers. That's why games aren't balanced around 1v1 or 2v2 even if those game modes are added.

And yes, the healing role can be important, but it doesn't mean that they are performing that role well. So it isn't a contradiction. The healing role is an important role to have and important for it to be done correctly. TERA doesn't in equalized. Again, classes that can perform optimally in equalized vs others that are gimped by equalized gear with no recourse.
Borsuc wrote: »
@Vunak: I didn't want to quote your post as it's too large and want to avoid quote pyramids, but I did read it. So that said, giga is forgiving since it's a high cooldown skill. Unforgiving means they shouldn't just feel instantly "safe" just because giga is on cooldown, but need to always avoid potential pressure. Similar with DPS peeling/protecting the healer.

Either way, see the reply to @gib. If healers are so useless, then surely replacing one with a DPS would be favorable in eq gear, right?

Giga is one CC and that is kind of how it works. You force the opposing team to burn priority CDs like (I feel I need to bold that word since I am not referring to a single skill or scenario here) Giga. When those CDs are refreshing that makes things less stressful and opens up opportunity for your team to land a kill or apply more pressure tipping the match more in your favor. Again, you are putting words in my mouth. Nowhere did I say that they immediately feel "safe". I didn't even use the word safe. It was an example of one CC that you seem to have latched onto in a strawman argument.
Borsuc wrote: »
Have you ever done Skyring with 3 DPS? (you can actually queue as 3 DPS, unfortunately no eq gear in premade) I did, for laughs, during EU equalized event -- just to see if "eq gear" is so bad for healers and we could pull off a win. Let's say, it's not very uhm... "viable". Wasn't even close. Sorry. (oh, I've won against most of the teams I faced without a healer, but only when I had a healer/serious composition against them, they weren't anything exceptional, I didn't mean going against the top tier obviously, those I didn't count)

I guess healers must be pretty strong then, since a DPS replacing them would perform worse. That's what balance ultimately is, not what some people want it to be (healers who don't like it, even though they know they're required and useful)

Again a strawman argument. That is like arguing that 2 warriors/healer teams would perform way better than others. Some compositions just don't work because they aren't an optimal comp. Even in equalized gear a healer still has a role to play. AGAIN... It doesn't mean they are performing that role optimally against other classes that are performing their roles.
Borsuc wrote: »
Actually that's the complete opposite of competitive, hardcore PvP, where you can't afford even a single mistake. During VM1 days it was similar (actually it was probably even easier to kill a healer, because you had more attack speed than in eq gear, allowing for more utilities to be thrown in even if damage was lower (comparatively speaking)).

Making a mistake =/= one comboed. Just about every game that includes PvP has an ability or an item that allows CC breaks, so it is literally impossible to be one comboed out the gate. Also in other games it is extremely difficult to bring a healer down, that's why games tend to last a lot longer in 3v3 in other games. A lot of the time you don't even focus the healer in other games because they are to difficult to confirm a kill.
Borsuc wrote: »
Healers should stop expecting to not rely on their teammates. Every DPS relies on healer, it's only natural that it applies the other way around as well.

If a Healer can't be killed by one DPS then what happens if two DPS jump on the healer and you still have two DPS which can peel? You only really need to peel one DPS in this case, since "one DPS can't kill a healer solo" in your "balance". Thus, having two DPS defending is extremely overkill and will likely end up in a pathetically long matchup, just to cater to noob DPS who want to go "yolo" and still survive with zero teamwork.

Nobody said Healers shouldn't rely on their teammates, again where was this said anywhere in this thread?

Like I said above, the focus generally isn't even on the healer in other games (kill target) because they are so difficult to confirm a kill on. That doesn't mean you don't keep pressure on the healer and target switch when a kill can be confirmed or CC is on the healer. You give to many absolutes in your examples, when everyone knows that matches are way more dynamic than that in a good competitive game. Which right now, equalized gear doesn't encourage or promote.
Borsuc wrote: »
oh you want to encourage tunnel vision DPS and not have the fight instantly lost because... yeah, that's very competitive. Encouraging noob behavior. Maybe if they lose instantly with every healer they get it's time to realize it's their own problem for not peeling. Much better than promoting noob behavior by having drawn-out fights with tunnel vision people.

That isn't even what I said, stop trying to twist my words into something that wasn't even remotely implied. Tunnel visioning is extremely horrible for any class. BUT that doesn't remove the fact that a DPS CAN tunnel vision and still be successful. Look at old 3s where that is all warriors ever really did. Demoralize was what... 1500-1600 on his warrior and that is literally ALL he did. A healer CAN'T and be successful.
Borsuc wrote: »
It's like playing a shooter game where you die in 50 shots instead of 2-3 or even just one headshot. Because obviously making the same mistake (being out in the open and a sitting duck) shouldn't be punishable. Those kind of shooters are the training wheels version of real shooters.

No it's not what are you even talking about at this point. It's more like in equalized gear healers get shot in the leg and bleed out in 2 seconds before their team mates can revive them again.
Borsuc wrote: »
tl;dr you say healer must not be tunnel vision, but the same applies to DPS, or should apply. Unfortunately uneq gear is way too forgiving so most DPS don't even have to care for the healer since he'll take a lot. Tunnel Vision DPS should instantly lose a Skyring match, in less than 15 seconds flat.

Unequalized gear is unforgiving, people still die and can die extremely quickly if positioning is bad or the whole team gets gigaged etc. But it is also a lot more balanced that if you do play optimally you aren't being punished, like in equalized where you can play optimally and get 2 hit by a couple of big lucky crits. Generally healers know what they can survive and what they can't. In voice comms your healer, if they are good, will usually tell you when they feel they are fine and keep pressure up on the other teams healer or DPS. Then the opposite is when they know they can't survive because they don't have CDs up, trinket up, low on HP, being doubled etc.

Yamazuki wrote: »
Yes, they should, unless you think healers should have their heals greatly reduced and the defensive/offensive stats of every other classes re-balanced to not need healers. The job of a healer is to position properly and support the best they can with the help of their team, not stand where ever they please with poor positioning and still doing their job efficiently. Healers are meant to be protected in pvp just like they are in pve. Sure a healer will be punished if the team refuses to protect the healer, but how is that any different than the tanks or dps dying because the healer isn't supporting? Are healers supposed to just be gods that need 0 protection while the team relies on them?

Read above.
Yamazuki wrote: »
What game has any of you even played where healers weren't as squishy in pvp as they are in pve? And don't use examples of classes like Paladins or any other tanky classes with heals. Look at how garbage their heals are compared to dedicated healers. They have their heals very limited for their durability and their heals are complimentary with a focus on being annoying through a mixture of cc, damage mitigation/shields, damage redirection, etc.

Just about every game that has the trinity in PvP? Disc Priests... Holy Priests... Restoration Druid and Shaman.... Healers in Rift... SWTOR... Wildstar... FFXIV... Lineage... ArcheAge... GW1... EQ... AoC...Really? Healers are generally the second hardest class role to kill in any PvP game, second to tanks.

Also squishy =/= easy to kill. Healers are generally squishy in the sense of the word that they take a lot of damage. But they have heals to compensate and tools to survive. It is a lot harder to kill a healer in other games than it is in TERA with equalized gear. It takes multiple combos, and super high pressure to kill one. Which is generally why healers are not kill targets in other games competitive scene.

You guys should also analyze what I wrote in my previous post as I worded everything very carefully. That is why I added the line "It should be extremely difficult for a single DPS to kill a healer", because generally speaking it should be possible. But it shouldn't be easy, which it is very easy to kill a healer now in equalized.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
gib wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »

EQ gear at least makes you know that if you screw it, that if you are in a bad position, that if you have a high ping for network issues then you will get punished accordingly and that is obviously getting reck (it seems this is the way people uses for that situations).

except it doesn't. you can be playing your role perfectly right but if you get backstabbed or stunned or slept once you are done. and it sucks.

What it sucks is the lack of peel of your team mates if you are in a good position but I see how many here don't even complain about that but chose to address the lack of coordination as a gear issue.

Is a sad thing that in almost every match on BGs tanks and DPSs class only want to go for the score and forget about team mates, that my friend is not something you should fix buffing your gear stats.

Healers have probably the most stressful job in PvP. They have to be watchful on everything that is going on in a fight, not just tunnel vision like a lot of DPS tend to do. If they can't keep themselves alive against one DPS the game is out of balance. Healers shouldn't be solo-able in one combo. A single DPS should have to work extremely hard to kill a healer and that's just not how the game works with equalized gear.
Borsuc wrote: »
Oh really? Since I'm not going to go my word vs your word I'll use some official info: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/news/19994381/legion-pvp-preview

Yes really.
Borsuc wrote: »
So here's what Bliz say:
In Legion, as soon as you zone into a PvP instance, the stats on your gear will be nullified, and you'll be given a pre-determined set of stats that's uniquely configured for your specialization. Furthermore, any set bonuses, enchants, Legendary bonuses, or trinket effects will be deactivated (although your Artifact and its related Artifact Powers will remain active).

The only contribution your gear will make to your overall power is through a small modifier based on your average item level. For every point that your average item level increases, your pre-determined PvP stats will increase by 0.1%. That means a 25 item level difference between two players only results in a 2.5% difference in stats, compared to the 25% difference it makes today. There’s still a little incentive to improve your gear – a concept we think is important for World of Warcraft – but the benefits are much less pronounced.

These changes bring a couple of major advantages. First of all, it puts everyone participating in organized PvP on a much more even playing field. Obviously, you'll still want to unlock your Honor Talents to reach your full potential, but you'll be able to hold your own in battle in the meantime.

Second, it allows us infinitely more control to make PvP-specific balance tweaks. If one spec's Mastery is too strong in PvP, that's fine – we can just reduce the amount of Mastery they have. If a spec is too easy to kill, we can increase their Stamina. If a healer is having too much trouble keeping teammates alive, we can increase their Spellpower. In short, we can tune classes for PvP in a way that’s exclusively focused on PvP.
The last bit is the most important for everyone who thinks eq is imbalanced. I don't know why so many people think that non-eq gear is what is "balanced" when it is almost impossible to balance in every game since it depends on player resources.

Except that 2.5% difference isn't top end. You have people fighting against new players with over a 150ilvl difference and 50+ points in their artifact weapon. Which the Artifact weapons themselves are a HUGE power gap. You are quoting something from nearly a year ago. Now look at it and the 20% difference is a real thing and it is a lot harder for players to close the gap than it was before since its literally gated behind top end raids, unlike before when it was just a points system and you could get them pretty quickly and be top geared in PvP after a few painful matches.

Also PvP is less active in Legion that it was in other expansions. It is less balanced as well which is a big problem in their PvP atm.
Borsuc wrote: »
As for GW2, it is equalized, if you bother to Google and see for yourself (I mean the term used by players for it). Cause that's what it means, not what you think it does. (I don't think many people even use the term normalization anymore)

e.g.: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2yqkbz/is_all_gear_equal_in_spvp_and_wvw/

So stat differences with no farming is still equalized, depending on build. Picking & choosing stats is still "equalized". Farming them isn't though.

GW2 is equalized in SPvP, not WvW which is normalized. You are right GW2 SPvP is equalized. But it is a lot easier for GW2 to normalize and equalize because the literal entire game is built around it with an already very horizontal gear progression. It is similar to GW1 where the top end gear is barely better than starter level 20 or level 80 gear.

GW2 also allows for more control over your gear than TERA does. GW2 allows players to change out runes, which has a massive effect on making certain builds/classes viable in SPvP. IF GW2 did equalization like TERA did, they would be screaming for non-equalized or for more customization since entire classes in that game would be utter trash, similar to how it is in TERA right now.

If TERA did equalized gear similar to GW2 which is literally what I suggested, with allowing more customization over gear then we wouldn't be in such a huge debate over equalized vs non-equalized gear and which is better. As it stands now though TERA is better with non-equalized vs current equalized gear because of all the issues that have been brought up about equalized gear right now. Yes people with lesser gear will get stomped for awhile. But it is a minor issue in comparison to entire classes being trash in comparison to others with no recourse to make them better.


Borsuc wrote: »
That's the definition of equalized though. It has nothing to do with everyone having same stats. You're probably the only person I've ever seen who thinks equalized means "everyone got the same stats regardless of build". Nobody wants that, they just want everyone to have exact same opportunity in builds and stats, and that's what equalized means. It means the power is equalized, not the stats. Someone isn't stronger than another while having the same build. Even if a build is stronger than another, what stops you from choosing the same strong build? If the game is equalized, nothing, just pick and choose. If the game is not equalized, however, you'll have to reroll or refarm your entire gear (depending on game). I don't know, is that simple enough?

And of course we are talking about post-Legion WoW, right?

GW2 is perfectly equalized, more than TERA, since not even level or anything makes a difference (in TERA, you have dyads/glyphs, which again not everyone has by default). If you could pick & choose your Dyads (without farming them) and all master glyphs etc then it would be equalized like GW2, since that's how GW2 works.

Do you know what is not equalized? If someone has, say, +5 critrate, while you have +3, with no other difference between you two. This isn't a matter of "choice", nobody chooses to have lower stats with no other gain. This is a matter of farm.

(note that WoW is not perfectly equalized, but it's more equalized than even TERA's equalized BGs, so it's good enough if TERA was even like that)

Equalize; become equal to a specified or standard level. Equal is exact.

Normalize; bring or return to a normal condition or state. Which means it brings values to a standard which is usually within a given range, they aren't exact, or don't have to be exact rather.

WoW does not equalize, it normalizes they are two entirely different things. It brings stats up to a specific level. But it doesn't just do that. It also increases your Main and Secondary stats by a percentage per 1 ilvl. Artifact power also plays a role in increasing HP values. That's why you can have two mages that are the EXACT SAME talent build, but one will have 2.5million HP and the other will have 4million.
MiskuChan wrote: »

That is equalised... they just allow for different builds.

Let me give you a direct quote from legion patch notes

Equalised PvP Gear:

Gear has been normalised in PvP combat. Characters entering a Skirmish Arena, Battleground, Rated Arena, Rated Battleground, or Ashran now receive an aura called Principles of War.
Principles of War removes all stats gained from gear (Strength, Stamina, Haste, etc.), disables gear related bonuses (like trinket effects and set bonuses), and gives the character stats based on their specializations, and increases based on overall item level. The goal is to provide a much more finely tuned and balanced PvP experience.

See above.
MiskuChan wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
Yep, lets stop making suggestions because we know BHS and EME aren't going to do anything

Or start making realistic suggestions.

It isn't that far fetched of a suggestion. BHS already has all the tools they need to allow something like that to happen. Dual specialization on gear now, we can customize two different sets. There really isn't anything stopping them from adding a third that is instanced PVP only. We have also already had BloodRave gear that was Rating restricted. So again, tell me where this isn't realistic when all the ground work is in place. Not to mention the gear revamps are happening and its the perfect time for them to adjust the PvP gear for a more permanent fix.
MiskuChan wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
Equalized gear isn't competitive that's the thing

Why not? Because you said so?

Because it is obvious. When you have certain classes that are so far outside of the bounds of the gear that they can kill someone before they even finish a full combo. Because Healers get absolutely destroyed.
MiskuChan wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
Nobody is saying Non-equalized is perfectly balanced. But it balances out much better at the top end than equalized gear allows.

Which is entirely irrelevant since the whole reason people want equalised is because they can't or don't want to grind for months or p2w before they can compete. Therefore you end up with extremely unbalanced and gear carried matches more often than not.

No. No it is not irrelevant. If it were than every single example of PvP balance in the history of gaming would be irrelevant. You always balance to the top end. You are getting really flimsy in your argument. The whole reason people want non-equalized is so that things are more competitive at the top end, not cater to people that don't want to put in the time or effort to be competitive. Because the people that won't grind for gear don't care about a competitive scene in the first place, if they aren't going to put in the effort. Which usually means they aren't going to put in the effort to learn their class properly, so those people wouldn't ever be competitive anyway.
MiskuChan wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
Equalized BGs have historically reduced TERA's PvP population

Utter bullshiit.

Equalised solo queue revived it overnight, equalised team 3's in EU brought back a ton of old players to queue, equalised skyring slam competition and fraywind brought more teams to sign up than actually played it on a good day.

+15 on the other hand killed bgs overnight.

One instance of it making things better for a bit doesn't mean its automatically a good thing when there are multiple instances of it reducing the PvP community.
MiskuChan wrote: »
Equalised CS has always been more popular than both fraywind and skyring, even when level 30s couldn't queue.

Haha, who is spewing utter BS now.
MiskuChan wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
There are very few games that have equalized BGs and even fewer that do it correctly.

There are tons of games with equalised gear, all e-sport tier games, MOBAs and fighting games, dragon nest - widely considered to provide the best MMO action combat experience, GW2, WoW, BnS.

Why? Because they're competitive... and if you're winning because your priest takes 20k damage while the other priest is taking 40k damage, then you don't foster a competitive environment you kill it. And it has been killed.

Telling them to make stats rerollable and rework equalised gear just shows how little you understand BHS or EME, that will never happen, putting current equalised gear in however is very realistic.

I don't think anyone is claiming equalised stats are optimal, but they're preferable to dead bgs and roflstomping people in BIS gear. Equalised at the very least i competitive.

WoW doesn't have equalized BGs, it boosts stats based on a percentage hence why you have two mages or two druids etc that have entirely different HP values, mastery values etc. GW2 boosts up but it isn't perfect similar to SWTOR, GW2's saving grace is it is largely horizontal in progression in comparison to other MMOs. Equalized BGs in MMOs hasn't been a thing for very long, it started with SWTOR mainly with its upscaling, which again wasn't perfect since gear still affected your stats by a large margin. I haven't played BnS so I don't know how they handle their gearing nor have I played Dragon Nest. MOBAs are a completely different genre (max of what 6v6?) as are fighting games (don't even have gear, since everything is done by ms on animations), you might as well throw in FPS games as well.

Yep, lets stop making suggestions because we know BHS and EME aren't going to do anything. This whole thread is hot air because EME and BHS aren't going to actually do anything, we all know it.

Equalized gear isn't competitive that's the thing. Look at solo 3s and how easy it is to kill healers in it in comparison to team 3s. It also is funny you say dead bgs when this is probably the lowest the TERA population has ever been in PvP. Equalized BGs have historically reduced TERA's PvP population. Again, why do you think a ton of the top players don't play the game anymore. EME and BHS's lack of PvP support obviously along with class imbalances. But Equalized is apart of the reason as well because it doesn't create a competitive environment the way they handle equalized gear.

Nobody is saying Non-equalized is perfectly balanced. But it balances out much better at the top end than equalized gear allows. Which again, you balance to the top end, not the bottom.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
You can't create a balance when you will have thousand of players without BiS trying to win battles until they farm with it, most pvp games you don't have to bother to grind becuase thier Battleground revolves around an equalized stats and only skills from players matter in that end.

You also seems to have not read that I also suggested to land players BiS for PvP that would be pretty much to make them equalized so thank you for make my point stronger with that.

There are very few games that have equalized BGs and even fewer that do it correctly. They also don't equalize to a bottom tier like TERA currently does, they raise everyone's stats up, and its percentage based.

You also didn't suggest top end BiS gear, you suggested re-rollable stats. Nothing in your posts said BiS gear, that I read. Point me to where I am wrong if I missed it somewhere.

ElinUsagi wrote: »

If you dont make an starting point balance will never be something on BGs, equalized gear is the thing that should be, their base stats and bonus stats is something to be discussed and then that will help to "make true balance" over classes. That is something an uneq scenerio can't bring because if you asume everyone in the BG has the same skill and classes are "balanced" then the ones who are going to win will be those with better gear. That says a lot that uneq is just another imbalanced factor in the PvE game that shouldnt come to a PvP scenario, unless you are willingly to give top tier gear to everyone so they can really be in the same ground as you in the match... or do you need handicaps for winning?

There is no starting point when the starting point is completely skewed in the wrong direction. Every game in the history of games has always tuned and balanced around the top end. You don't balance around the bottom end because your top end becomes completely screwed. Its fairly obvious you don't know anything about stat scaling and stat weights and how they interact differently for each class.

Also I did suggest they put everyone in top end gear. Check my suggestions a page or two back. Top end gear with stat customization (+15 or whatever the top gear is at the time) with the ability to use it outside of BGs/3s after hitting a high enough rating 1700+ or so.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
or do you need handicaps for winning?

Lol. Yeah you caught me. My Starfall gear is definitely going to carry me to 1700 rating in 3s/FWC. Perhaps you are the one that needs a handy cap since everything is easier in equalized gear. Healers get torn to pieces so DPS classes have a much easier time landing kills with unoptimized combos and no real need for team synergy. What class do you play?
Borsuc wrote: »
But team 3s was always non-equalized, or am I missing something here? Only EU had equalized team 3s for about a month and it actually revived it during that month.

That is why the "and" is there. The statement is just that. When Team 3s AND FWC both were non-equalized and Corsairs and Solo 3s were equalized.
This game was much better when FWC and team 3s were non-equalized as the high end PvP Battlegrounds and solo 3s and Corsair were equalized as the "gearing" Battlegrounds.

People that wanted to gear and not get stomped did those and the people that had the gear or wanted to gear more quickly did FWC.

And no equalized =/= balanced. It's so much worse because the gear isn't balanced. Healers are crap which means the already overtuned classes are that much stronger than they already are.
Borsuc wrote: »
Well first of all when I see balance talks I obviously think of Skyring only. Why does balance matter in mass PvP BGs when some classes are already pretty much deadweight (and always have been pretty poor, it has nothing to do with new classes). What about the buffs in FWC/Grid as well which benefit some classes much more than others? See what I mean? Those BGs are imbalanced at the core. So in respect to stun reduction on earrings (which I agree with), it exists on Skyring gear already so I won't comment on that.

As for why non-EQ popped, maybe it's because it had dailies and higher rewards, ever thought about it? Let's swap rewards for EQ/non-EQ just for once when both are active and see what happens.

Class balance doesn't matter as much in larger PvP BGs. But statistical balance does, which is what is being talked about.

Both non-equalized and equalized FWC had dailies. To start they both had the same rewards because they replaced the raid version of FWC with the equalized version. It didn't do well, so they removed it. They brought it back later on where it gave more BC points than non-equalized. They both still had dailies. It didn't do well then either. Every time they have brought Equalized FWC back it has dwindled the PvP community until they bring back non-equalized. Again, look at how PvP activity is now compared to it was months ago when we had non-equalized FWC. There is a reason a lot of the really skilled PvPers don't play the game anymore and non-equalized BGs is one of the reasons along with all the other issues.

I would agree that they should balance the game around 3v3, class wise. It would make sense to do it that way, but BHS doesnt understand the word balance and continues to give us completely broken new classes. The best time for 3v3 was before reaper release. After reaper released 3v3 went downhill. But it was never very good either. Classes have never been balanced against each other, which is why even before the new classes were released you saw Lancer/warrior/priest or Lancer/slayer/priest usually. Lets not forget the 2 weeks it took BHS and EME to fix the debuff bug warriors had that would completely negate everything any healer tried to do to save someone and it couldn't be cleansed. BHS has never cared about 3s in this game and it has shown very well over the years. PvP in general really.

They also need to bring back leaderboards. There was no reason to take them out. Crusades would be nice to have back as well.

Hell the Vanarch system would be nice to have back for GvG purposes, albeit with some tweaks to prevent feeding. They could even wrap that system into the CE system. There is so much TERA could do to revitalize population and PvP all together. It is really sad to see that BHS really has no creative thought process about them with PvP at all.
Borsuc wrote: »
You seem to have this misconception that "normal gear" means how classes should be, when every stat you can "pick and choose" is by itself designed by BHS, just like how classes are. I don't see how that is much of an argument to be honest.

For example, what you gave about CDR. CDR is the biggest source of imbalance in the game. Some people want an equalized Skyring precisely to get rid of CDR and not for any other reason. Just because you find CDR "balanced" or "how it should be" does not make it so. Remember, during VM1 CDR did not even exist as a stat (pick and choose doesn't matter since it's still designed by BHS) and the game was far more balanced. Ground Pound not being a guaranteed thing and then people (used to) whine brawlers were too OP. The irony. Ever thought it's normal gear stats that make the game imbalanced more than eq? Healers are too strong in uneq because they don't have to mix defensive with offensive stats since they can take everything for defense and CDR. In eq it's punishing and you actually need your team to survive just like how your team needs you (i.e. need peels), more unforgiving.

Slayers are another example. People complain how bad they are, yet in eq gear they tend to do bursts enough to solo healers which makes them ok overall. "uneq gear is more balanced" yeah.

You can't really compare the VM1 days to the game now, also the game was only far more balanced then than now because it didn't have all the new classes. Nor the stat priorities then and now. Both unequalized and equalized both cause imbalances. Unequalized or customize-able stats just causes less. Like I said, some classes get completely shafted by unequalized gear, while others (mainly the new classes) it doesn't matter for them. That is why there is a thing called scaling, certain classes scale better with higher stats than others which brings the gap closer together of already high performing classes to those that need certain stats to perform well. You can't really argue stun reduction on earrings either that just needs to happen. There's also a reason Unequalized FWC was much more popular than equalized FWC. Even when they had both available at the same time way back when. Unequalized popped much more frequently, which is why equalized eventually got removed. Now we are back to equalized and PvP is more dead than it has ever been in TERA.
Borsuc wrote: »
@Vunak: I didn't mean that E-sports "make" a good PvP game. Rather, if it does have E-sports, it means its PvP is done right (even if some of us think it's garbage, people have different opinions so that's natural). It's a measurement, but it's not the only one. You gauge the game's interest in PvP and a proper PvP setup if it has esports. Of course if it doesn't have esports, it does not mean that the PvP in the game is terrible or bad. But it doesn't mean it's good either; so it's a simple gauge. It could be good without esports, but I doubt that any game with esports has bad PvP (objectively bad), so the other way around doesn't apply. You won't likely see hours long queues and such for those games, unlike in TERA. (again it doesn't mean a game lacking esports will necessarily have hours long queues, but there's no guarantee)

As for, Skyring Slam, it would be perfect for an esport setting, it has everything it needs for that setup -- including good viewability/watchability. Personally, much more fun to watch TERA Skyring PvP than GW2, so I'm a bit triggered due to BHS's decisions.

Oh I agree. TERA has the ability to become a great game to watch and dedicate to E-Sports. Its just unfortunate that TERAs PvP for whatever reason was abandoned. The old Skyring and Canyon Clashes are an example of that they were very watchable and enjoyable. If they had facilitated an environment for E-Sports in TERA to flourish it likely would have.

I don't necessarily think that the PvP systems and PvP in general of TERA had anything to do with its "failure" in regards to being a popular PvP MMO similar to BnS. Rather a lack of every other system in TERA being generic or very badly implemented. Had TERA kept the combat system it has now and created an interesting starting experience with more than simple dungeons at endgame to do. Actually done a lot for optimization to allow for a smooth experience early on, it is very likely TERA would be a very different and a decently popular MMO today.
Borsuc wrote: »
@Vunak: I didn't mean that E-sports "make" a good PvP game. Rather, if it does have E-sports, it means its PvP is done right (even if some of us think it's garbage, people have different opinions so that's natural). It's a measurement, but it's not the only one. You gauge the game's interest in PvP and a proper PvP setup if it has esports. Of course if it doesn't have esports, it does not mean that the PvP in the game is terrible or bad. But it doesn't mean it's good either; so it's a simple gauge. It could be good without esports, but I doubt that any game with esports has bad PvP (objectively bad), so the other way around doesn't apply. You won't likely see hours long queues and such for those games, unlike in TERA. (again it doesn't mean a game lacking esports will necessarily have hours long queues, but there's no guarantee)

As for, Skyring Slam, it would be perfect for an esport setting, it has everything it needs for that setup -- including good viewability/watchability. Personally, much more fun to watch TERA Skyring PvP than GW2, so I'm a bit triggered due to BHS's decisions.

Oh I agree. TERA has the ability to become a great game to watch and dedicate to E-Sports. Its just unfortunate that TERAs PvP for whatever reason was abandoned. The old Skyring and Canyon Clashes are an example of that they were very watchable and enjoyable. If they had facilitated an environment for E-Sports in TERA to flourish it likely would have.

I don't necessarily think that the PvP systems and PvP in general of TERA had anything to do with its "failure" in regards to being a popular PvP MMO similar to BnS. Rather a lack of every other system in TERA being generic or very badly implemented. Had TERA kept the combat system it has now and created an interesting starting experience with more than simple dungeons at endgame to do. Actually done a lot for optimization to allow for a smooth experience early on, it is very likely TERA would be a very different and a decently popular MMO today.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
@Vunak

Then why not ask for an equalizad gear that can be customized (rerollable stats) outside the BG so when you join you had your EQ gear with the set you need to perform at optimal level?

What I am arguing and it seems many people don't get is about diference in base stats when you are uneq that in many cases if you are in mid tier gear you will be against other people (or matched with) that their gear gives them more than 18% better base stats plus 2 extra lines on weapon+armor. In a PvP battleground that kind of diference in stats is quite the advantage for any skilled player.

Rerollable stats aren't the answer, full customization would be. Also I did mention it, you just must not of read my full post above.
Vunak wrote: »
  • Either add stun reduction to the equalized gear and add some attack speed or allow customizeable stats on equalized gear in the player profile, or remove equalized and bring the gear back in terms of power like it was before +15 was a thing. The fraywind - Conjunct - VM1/bloodrave power gap was perfect

aeee98 wrote: »
Actually a better answer is to let NA actually design the EQ gear. No rerollables, no need for customisation, just the proper rolls all classes should have to perform optimally. Then you don't need a complaint about EQ vs Un-EQ.

The idea is simple, PvPers don't want to essentially "farm dungeons just to get gear". Most PvPers wouldn't even mind if the EQ gear is properly handled, which isn't. The reason why people are wanting UnEQ is because BHS is too dumb in their PvP design sense. Like seriously. A healer shouldn't be two shotted by a FotM class without any effort (even in a coordinated party things like this happen in EQ scenario and this is what kills healer interest in the game).

In short, PvP should be an activity anyone can take part, so it SHOULD reward PvE related items as well, even if you are a pure PvPer. The Box rewards are okay if not for the NA market to be so nice to players, and as such should just be modified (it is a box with a loot table, seriously that isn't that hard to recode).

Then what about CU? CU is literally guild battle royale. If NA doesn't want to properly follow this simple concept and actually not abuse it, there is nothing else I can do lol.

Allowing the NA player base to design the gear would be a clusterfluck. People wouldn't be able to agree on what stats are properly weighted for each class, not to mention there are multiple ways to build a class. Some people prefer Power, some prefer crit, some attack speed, some full endurance etc. Allowing customization would likely be easier in the end with also allowing for more flexibility later on when things may change with how the gear is being changed. Its a permanent solution rather than a temporary fix that may only apply to this build of TERA.

I honestly think the best solution is to give everyone in PvP top of the line gear. Allow them to customize that +15, or whatever the new gear is going to be after the revamp, how they want in PvP only. Bring back leaderboards and make rating worth something by allowing players that hit 1500+ or perhaps 1700+ to buy those pieces for use outside of BGs as well. It gives players an incentive to do PvP and gives players an incentive to actually do well in PvP to get that gear. It wouldn't adversely hurt PvE as those players could gear through their preferred method while giving PvP players an alternative.

It would be similar to how Bloodrave was handled but different since everything would still be equalized with top of the line gear, but only in those BGs unless a player or a team is good enough to reach those higher ratings to also use it outside of BGs.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
@Vunak

Then why not ask for an equalizad gear that can be customized (rerollable stats) outside the BG so when you join you had your EQ gear with the set you need to perform at optimal level?

What I am arguing and it seems many people don't get is about diference in base stats when you are uneq that in many cases if you are in mid tier gear you will be against other people (or matched with) that their gear gives them more than 18% better base stats plus 2 extra lines on weapon+armor. In a PvP battleground that kind of diference in stats is quite the advantage for any skilled player.

Rerollable stats aren't the answer, full customization would be. Also I did mention it, you just must not of read my full post above.
Vunak wrote: »
  • Either add stun reduction to the equalized gear and add some attack speed or allow customizeable stats on equalized gear in the player profile, or remove equalized and bring the gear back in terms of power like it was before +15 was a thing. The fraywind - Conjunct - VM1/bloodrave power gap was perfect

aeee98 wrote: »
Actually a better answer is to let NA actually design the EQ gear. No rerollables, no need for customisation, just the proper rolls all classes should have to perform optimally. Then you don't need a complaint about EQ vs Un-EQ.

The idea is simple, PvPers don't want to essentially "farm dungeons just to get gear". Most PvPers wouldn't even mind if the EQ gear is properly handled, which isn't. The reason why people are wanting UnEQ is because BHS is too dumb in their PvP design sense. Like seriously. A healer shouldn't be two shotted by a FotM class without any effort (even in a coordinated party things like this happen in EQ scenario and this is what kills healer interest in the game).

In short, PvP should be an activity anyone can take part, so it SHOULD reward PvE related items as well, even if you are a pure PvPer. The Box rewards are okay if not for the NA market to be so nice to players, and as such should just be modified (it is a box with a loot table, seriously that isn't that hard to recode).

Then what about CU? CU is literally guild battle royale. If NA doesn't want to properly follow this simple concept and actually not abuse it, there is nothing else I can do lol.

Allowing the NA player base to design the gear would be a clusterfluck. People wouldn't be able to agree on what stats are properly weighted for each class, not to mention there are multiple ways to build a class. Some people prefer Power, some prefer crit, some attack speed, some full endurance etc. Allowing customization would likely be easier in the end with also allowing for more flexibility later on when things may change with how the gear is being changed. Its a permanent solution rather than a temporary fix that may only apply to this build of TERA.

I honestly think the best solution is to give everyone in PvP top of the line gear. Allow them to customize that +15, or whatever the new gear is going to be after the revamp, how they want in PvP only. Bring back leaderboards and make rating worth something by allowing players that hit 1500+ or perhaps 1700+ to buy those pieces for use outside of BGs as well. It gives players an incentive to do PvP and gives players an incentive to actually do well in PvP to get that gear. It wouldn't adversely hurt PvE as those players could gear through their preferred method while giving PvP players an alternative.

It would be similar to how Bloodrave was handled but different since everything would still be equalized with top of the line gear, but only in those BGs unless a player or a team is good enough to reach those higher ratings to also use it outside of BGs.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
@Vunak

Then why not ask for an equalizad gear that can be customized (rerollable stats) outside the BG so when you join you had your EQ gear with the set you need to perform at optimal level?

What I am arguing and it seems many people don't get is about diference in base stats when you are uneq that in many cases if you are in mid tier gear you will be against other people (or matched with) that their gear gives them more than 18% better base stats plus 2 extra lines on weapon+armor. In a PvP battleground that kind of diference in stats is quite the advantage for any skilled player.

Rerollable stats aren't the answer, full customization would be. Also I did mention it, you just must not of read my full post above.
Vunak wrote: »
  • Either add stun reduction to the equalized gear and add some attack speed or allow customizeable stats on equalized gear in the player profile, or remove equalized and bring the gear back in terms of power like it was before +15 was a thing. The fraywind - Conjunct - VM1/bloodrave power gap was perfect

aeee98 wrote: »
Actually a better answer is to let NA actually design the EQ gear. No rerollables, no need for customisation, just the proper rolls all classes should have to perform optimally. Then you don't need a complaint about EQ vs Un-EQ.

The idea is simple, PvPers don't want to essentially "farm dungeons just to get gear". Most PvPers wouldn't even mind if the EQ gear is properly handled, which isn't. The reason why people are wanting UnEQ is because BHS is too dumb in their PvP design sense. Like seriously. A healer shouldn't be two shotted by a FotM class without any effort (even in a coordinated party things like this happen in EQ scenario and this is what kills healer interest in the game).

In short, PvP should be an activity anyone can take part, so it SHOULD reward PvE related items as well, even if you are a pure PvPer. The Box rewards are okay if not for the NA market to be so nice to players, and as such should just be modified (it is a box with a loot table, seriously that isn't that hard to recode).

Then what about CU? CU is literally guild battle royale. If NA doesn't want to properly follow this simple concept and actually not abuse it, there is nothing else I can do lol.

Allowing the NA player base to design the gear would be a clusterfluck. People wouldn't be able to agree on what stats are properly weighted for each class, not to mention there are multiple ways to build a class. Some people prefer Power, some prefer crit, some attack speed, some full endurance etc. Allowing customization would likely be easier in the end with also allowing for more flexibility later on when things may change with how the gear is being changed. Its a permanent solution rather than a temporary fix that may only apply to this build of TERA.

I honestly think the best solution is to give everyone in PvP top of the line gear. Allow them to customize that +15, or whatever the new gear is going to be after the revamp, how they want in PvP only. Bring back leaderboards and make rating worth something by allowing players that hit 1500+ or perhaps 1700+ to buy those pieces for use outside of BGs as well. It gives players an incentive to do PvP and gives players an incentive to actually do well in PvP to get that gear. It wouldn't adversely hurt PvE as those players could gear through their preferred method while giving PvP players an alternative.

It would be similar to how Bloodrave was handled but different since everything would still be equalized with top of the line gear, but only in those BGs unless a player or a team is good enough to reach those higher ratings to also use it outside of BGs.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
@Vunak

Then why not ask for an equalizad gear that can be customized (rerollable stats) outside the BG so when you join you had your EQ gear with the set you need to perform at optimal level?

What I am arguing and it seems many people don't get is about diference in base stats when you are uneq that in many cases if you are in mid tier gear you will be against other people (or matched with) that their gear gives them more than 18% better base stats plus 2 extra lines on weapon+armor. In a PvP battleground that kind of diference in stats is quite the advantage for any skilled player.

Rerollable stats aren't the answer, full customization would be. Also I did mention it, you just must not of read my full post above.
Vunak wrote: »
  • Either add stun reduction to the equalized gear and add some attack speed or allow customizeable stats on equalized gear in the player profile, or remove equalized and bring the gear back in terms of power like it was before +15 was a thing. The fraywind - Conjunct - VM1/bloodrave power gap was perfect

aeee98 wrote: »
Actually a better answer is to let NA actually design the EQ gear. No rerollables, no need for customisation, just the proper rolls all classes should have to perform optimally. Then you don't need a complaint about EQ vs Un-EQ.

The idea is simple, PvPers don't want to essentially "farm dungeons just to get gear". Most PvPers wouldn't even mind if the EQ gear is properly handled, which isn't. The reason why people are wanting UnEQ is because BHS is too dumb in their PvP design sense. Like seriously. A healer shouldn't be two shotted by a FotM class without any effort (even in a coordinated party things like this happen in EQ scenario and this is what kills healer interest in the game).

In short, PvP should be an activity anyone can take part, so it SHOULD reward PvE related items as well, even if you are a pure PvPer. The Box rewards are okay if not for the NA market to be so nice to players, and as such should just be modified (it is a box with a loot table, seriously that isn't that hard to recode).

Then what about CU? CU is literally guild battle royale. If NA doesn't want to properly follow this simple concept and actually not abuse it, there is nothing else I can do lol.

Allowing the NA player base to design the gear would be a clusterfluck. People wouldn't be able to agree on what stats are properly weighted for each class, not to mention there are multiple ways to build a class. Some people prefer Power, some prefer crit, some attack speed, some full endurance etc. Allowing customization would likely be easier in the end with also allowing for more flexibility later on when things may change with how the gear is being changed. Its a permanent solution rather than a temporary fix that may only apply to this build of TERA.

I honestly think the best solution is to give everyone in PvP top of the line gear. Allow them to customize that +15, or whatever the new gear is going to be after the revamp, how they want in PvP only. Bring back leaderboards and make rating worth something by allowing players that hit 1500+ or perhaps 1700+ to buy those pieces for use outside of BGs as well. It gives players an incentive to do PvP and gives players an incentive to actually do well in PvP to get that gear. It wouldn't adversely hurt PvE as those players could gear through their preferred method while giving PvP players an alternative.

It would be similar to how Bloodrave was handled but different since everything would still be equalized with top of the line gear, but only in those BGs unless a player or a team is good enough to reach those higher ratings to also use it outside of BGs.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
@Vunak

Then why not ask for an equalizad gear that can be customized (rerollable stats) outside the BG so when you join you had your EQ gear with the set you need to perform at optimal level?

What I am arguing and it seems many people don't get is about diference in base stats when you are uneq that in many cases if you are in mid tier gear you will be against other people (or matched with) that their gear gives them more than 18% better base stats plus 2 extra lines on weapon+armor. In a PvP battleground that kind of diference in stats is quite the advantage for any skilled player.

Rerollable stats aren't the answer, full customization would be. Also I did mention it, you just must not of read my full post above.
Vunak wrote: »
  • Either add stun reduction to the equalized gear and add some attack speed or allow customizeable stats on equalized gear in the player profile, or remove equalized and bring the gear back in terms of power like it was before +15 was a thing. The fraywind - Conjunct - VM1/bloodrave power gap was perfect

aeee98 wrote: »
Actually a better answer is to let NA actually design the EQ gear. No rerollables, no need for customisation, just the proper rolls all classes should have to perform optimally. Then you don't need a complaint about EQ vs Un-EQ.

The idea is simple, PvPers don't want to essentially "farm dungeons just to get gear". Most PvPers wouldn't even mind if the EQ gear is properly handled, which isn't. The reason why people are wanting UnEQ is because BHS is too dumb in their PvP design sense. Like seriously. A healer shouldn't be two shotted by a FotM class without any effort (even in a coordinated party things like this happen in EQ scenario and this is what kills healer interest in the game).

In short, PvP should be an activity anyone can take part, so it SHOULD reward PvE related items as well, even if you are a pure PvPer. The Box rewards are okay if not for the NA market to be so nice to players, and as such should just be modified (it is a box with a loot table, seriously that isn't that hard to recode).

Then what about CU? CU is literally guild battle royale. If NA doesn't want to properly follow this simple concept and actually not abuse it, there is nothing else I can do lol.

Allowing the NA player base to design the gear would be a clusterfluck. People wouldn't be able to agree on what stats are properly weighted for each class, not to mention there are multiple ways to build a class. Some people prefer Power, some prefer crit, some attack speed, some full endurance etc. Allowing customization would likely be easier in the end with also allowing for more flexibility later on when things may change with how the gear is being changed. Its a permanent solution rather than a temporary fix that may only apply to this build of TERA.

I honestly think the best solution is to give everyone in PvP top of the line gear. Allow them to customize that +15, or whatever the new gear is going to be after the revamp, how they want in PvP only. Bring back leaderboards and make rating worth something by allowing players that hit 1500+ or perhaps 1700+ to buy those pieces for use outside of BGs as well. It gives players an incentive to do PvP and gives players an incentive to actually do well in PvP to get that gear. It wouldn't adversely hurt PvE as those players could gear through their preferred method while giving PvP players an alternative.

It would be similar to how Bloodrave was handled but different since everything would still be equalized with top of the line gear, but only in those BGs unless a player or a team is good enough to reach those higher ratings to also use it outside of BGs.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
@Vunak

Then why not ask for an equalizad gear that can be customized (rerollable stats) outside the BG so when you join you had your EQ gear with the set you need to perform at optimal level?

What I am arguing and it seems many people don't get is about diference in base stats when you are uneq that in many cases if you are in mid tier gear you will be against other people (or matched with) that their gear gives them more than 18% better base stats plus 2 extra lines on weapon+armor. In a PvP battleground that kind of diference in stats is quite the advantage for any skilled player.

Rerollable stats aren't the answer, full customization would be. Also I did mention it, you just must not of read my full post above.
Vunak wrote: »
  • Either add stun reduction to the equalized gear and add some attack speed or allow customizeable stats on equalized gear in the player profile, or remove equalized and bring the gear back in terms of power like it was before +15 was a thing. The fraywind - Conjunct - VM1/bloodrave power gap was perfect

aeee98 wrote: »
Actually a better answer is to let NA actually design the EQ gear. No rerollables, no need for customisation, just the proper rolls all classes should have to perform optimally. Then you don't need a complaint about EQ vs Un-EQ.

The idea is simple, PvPers don't want to essentially "farm dungeons just to get gear". Most PvPers wouldn't even mind if the EQ gear is properly handled, which isn't. The reason why people are wanting UnEQ is because BHS is too dumb in their PvP design sense. Like seriously. A healer shouldn't be two shotted by a FotM class without any effort (even in a coordinated party things like this happen in EQ scenario and this is what kills healer interest in the game).

In short, PvP should be an activity anyone can take part, so it SHOULD reward PvE related items as well, even if you are a pure PvPer. The Box rewards are okay if not for the NA market to be so nice to players, and as such should just be modified (it is a box with a loot table, seriously that isn't that hard to recode).

Then what about CU? CU is literally guild battle royale. If NA doesn't want to properly follow this simple concept and actually not abuse it, there is nothing else I can do lol.

Allowing the NA player base to design the gear would be a clusterfluck. People wouldn't be able to agree on what stats are properly weighted for each class, not to mention there are multiple ways to build a class. Some people prefer Power, some prefer crit, some attack speed, some full endurance etc. Allowing customization would likely be easier in the end with also allowing for more flexibility later on when things may change with how the gear is being changed. Its a permanent solution rather than a temporary fix that may only apply to this build of TERA.

I honestly think the best solution is to give everyone in PvP top of the line gear. Allow them to customize that +15, or whatever the new gear is going to be after the revamp, how they want in PvP only. Bring back leaderboards and make rating worth something by allowing players that hit 1500+ or perhaps 1700+ to buy those pieces for use outside of BGs as well. It gives players an incentive to do PvP and gives players an incentive to actually do well in PvP to get that gear. It wouldn't adversely hurt PvE as those players could gear through their preferred method while giving PvP players an alternative.

It would be similar to how Bloodrave was handled but different since everything would still be equalized with top of the line gear, but only in those BGs unless a player or a team is good enough to reach those higher ratings to also use it outside of BGs.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Vunak wrote: »
Equalized gear is like PvPing with training wheels on because you aren't fighting against classes when they perform at their peak.

With uneq gear you wont be at your peak until you get the best weapon with the best etchings and the same with the armor and boots and gloves also the best belt, the best rings, the best earrings the best brooch, the best circlet, the best inners...

Did you see how much inbalance does uneq gear bring to the BGs?

There is definitely an argument to be had about how bad gear has become now, especially with how much +15 and things have influenced it. But there is a big difference between min-maxing and being viable and/or performing at peak within a percent with unequalized gear. You don't NEED to have BiS everything with unequalized gear to perform at very close to peak. Some things you do for sure. But others you don't.

Equalized and unequalized both have advantages and disadvantages. It's just I and many others, as can be seen by how dead PvP actually is outside of Power Hours, that equalized gear brings more disadvantages than it brings advantages.

The big difference between equalized and unequalized is that with unequalized you can eventually build past and reach the peak performance of your class by working at gearing your character. With equalized gear you are stuck with it and if your class gets shafted by equalized gear you are SoL.
  • Balance the classes and stop adding stupidly OP classes to the game
  • Optimize the game so the average person can get 45-60 FPS
  • EME fix the server issues that have plagued this game for years
  • Stop adding stupidly OP classes to the game
  • Make running BGs outside of powerhour a viable gearing solution
  • Add multiple BG queuing
  • Leaderboards should be brought back
  • Either add stun reduction to the equalized gear and add some attack speed or allow customizeable stats on equalized gear in the player profile, or remove equalized and bring the gear back in terms of power like it was before +15 was a thing. The fraywind - Conjunct - VM1/bloodrave power gap was perfect
  • Make another Bloodrave set that could be acquired that is on par with the top gear out, can only be bought with a rating of 1500 or so in FWC or 3s.
  • Stop adding ridiculously OP classes to the game
ElinUsagi wrote: »

A player that has played many PvP games and I already know that uneq is something that brings more inbalance becuase there will be healers with diferent base stats on gear when uneq gear is at BGs, also that aplies for tanks and dps.

And that not only aplies for the weapon, armor, boots, gloves and belt but also for rings, earring, necklace, etchings, circlets. And further when the new gear progression hits NA servers uneq battlegrounds are going to be even more inbalanced.

EQ gear brings more balance becuase you will see every lancer with the same base stats in the gear, all the dps with the same base stats in the gear, all healers with the same base stats in the gear, that is what balance means and that is the way for the better skilled players and most coordinated team to win rather to add more advantages for those who do more PvE content than those who only do BGs without bothering to grind to progress in gear tier and lvl.

You are wrong. Equalized gear doesn't bring balance at all. If equalized gear allowed for some customization on how stats were allocated it might. But some classes perform a lot better than others with the way stating is in equalized gear because they don't inherently need certain stats to pull of combos. So while one lancer will be balanced against another lancer, that doesn't mean that lancer is perfectly balanced because of equalized gear. Most of the time its unbalanced because now classes have to sit in Giga for full duration allowing for massive combo potential on large groups. It also means that a Brawlers Ground Pound isnt a guaranteed thing because the last hit doesnt have the proper attack speed it needs to land where as with proper gear they could land it. Same thing with Sorcerer. With proper attack speed they can land their combo's comfortably, with the equalized gear it isn't as fluid, same thing with CDR. Sorcerers stack CDR for warp barrier, especially now that the CD was increased dramatically. Some classes get shafted hard by the equalized gear and others it doesnt hit as hard. Where as with unequalized gear those classes can reach whatever stat threshold they need to perform optimally.

Equalized gear is like PvPing with training wheels on because you aren't fighting against classes when they perform at their peak.

Not having stun reduction on earrings is really all that needs to be said about equalized BGs.
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