TERA Online forum archive
Posts by Vinyltails
> @ Vinyltails said:
> I'll continue to bare the mantle of CH: a lazy toxic memer in global chat

Legend

Someone has to bare the burden of our great server o7 (when i can play again ayyyyy kms)
But CH never left Velika? :Megathonk:
They had a email code which gave a pot which drops your hp and reduced healing (aka EU's slaying pot) but no way in game yet
You now, i feel bad slightly that i always forgot AV was a server at times
I'll continue to bare the mantle of CH: a lazy toxic memer in global chat
Cause it's more money for them

Why put in a 10x the amount to make a class for every race/gender and make maybe idk 10% or something more money when you can do it for less effort and make more money when comparing time/resources spent on doing it

as the saying goes "the juice isn't worth the squeeze"

/thread
Default is 2 characters per server (16 max per server after buying slots)

Founder packs aren't available for purchase anymore so it's a no go
KXRC9JMW74 wrote: »
Ghost915 wrote: »
But how do they decide who has to change their name and who does not?

Read up or read the FAQ or read Elexem s post
This was mostly answered in the FAQ. Basically, if there are two characters with the same name, then the one that has a higher time played (of that specific character, not the account as a whole) will get the name and the other one will have to be renamed.

you're asking people to READ something that has all the details when someone can spell it out for me?! *LE GASP*
Sorry but we're not koreans so why would they listen to us, they don't even know our language!
Why can't tera do that? Cause BHS loves UE3 so much they're sleeping with it like it's their wives and hate change as much as these forum dwellers
Classes always come out after the maint on the day. Maints are usually at the same time as they always are and are "meant" to last maybe 2hours or so (which like never happens cause mEME)
Vinyltails wrote: »
there is never any guides for basic stuff cause it literally doesn't matter at cap cause everything changes. you can literally face roll and be fine 1-64 since it's the tutorial

Just read your skills, look up rotations and just remove skills you don't have yet...simple

that's a bit of a bad mindset to have imo.

I'm looking to understand the basics and get good, not all stuff is "faceroll easy" as difficulty is subjective, and it isn't often people recall their first time.

And a lot of good guide makers list the basic basic. A youtube channel i followed in ff14 Worktogame, did controler guides and built it up from the basics to cap.

Every mmo changed from 1-cap, but learning the basic is always the best start. I wanna learn now, not at cap to make sure i'm doing it right.

They've dumbed down the difficultly of the earily levelling SO MUCH that it is literally face roll easy. As long as you keep your avatar weapon up to date and have abit of gold on hand (for the 99 res's in dungeons and gold is easy from vanguards) and have the ability to PRESS BUTTONS, you literally can't mess up. Hell, you can get to cap LITERALLY SPAMMING AUTO ATTACKS *glares at 70-80% of console leveller population in dungeons*
1) smallish necro

2) https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/28672/server-transfer-glyph-bug#latest
there is never any guides for basic stuff cause it literally doesn't matter at cap cause everything changes. you can literally face roll and be fine 1-64 since it's the tutorial

Just read your skills, look up rotations and just remove skills you don't have yet...simple
HAAYAAKD43 wrote: »
how can they be vent dungeons when they just introduced pets based on the dungeon ?
and why can't event dungeons be added to guild quests? they really should be

Simple: Limited time pets, don't get it now and you'll never be able to get it again (or until it's slapped to the store)
Catservant wrote: »
How do you find out how much play time your competitor has? Or is it just wait and see?

Wait and see...unless you can ask them when they're on
Elinu1 wrote: »
I already know I am going to lose a few names. Makes me sad that names I have had for 6+ years and active account are getting taken by an inactive account that hasn't logged in over 2 years, just because the played more way back when. There really needs to be a name wipe to go with the merge.

Surely if thry haven't logged in for 2 years, then what the f were you doing in that time to not rack up playtime to past them..unless said person was an active player back then, even doing dailies and a few runs here and there would rack up enough time...
BlaineHall wrote: »
Vinyltails wrote: »
BlaineHall wrote: »
Vinyltails wrote: »
You can't...it plagues PC to this day for people

Another thing that bhs probably won't ever fix

Just add it to the list right? Where's my notepad . . .

Notepad crashed cause it couldn't handle the huge list

When you said "Notepad crashed" I was 99% sure you were going to say because you used a version made by BHS

Nah, they don't know how to make something as complex like that
Have higher play time...AKA you should be afking 24/7 rn to add to the playtime. People who care about their names would be doing this unless they feel confident they got alot of playtime

Or make alts on the other servers to see if your name is gonna be contested
BlaineHall wrote: »
Vinyltails wrote: »
You can't...it plagues PC to this day for people

Another thing that bhs probably won't ever fix

Just add it to the list right? Where's my notepad . . .

Notepad crashed cause it couldn't handle the huge list
You can't...it plagues PC to this day for people

Another thing that bhs probably won't ever fix
Because Eme's patch notes are always laughly wrong, missig stuff out cause they were told to not write about it/purposely not write it so we find out about it/insert other excuse here
Aren't you getting PP back anyway from being off, the passive regen
Crit power is never the right answer on any gear....except zerk's 5th
Remember that one time when they tired to add 1 dungeon and took lke 7-8 hours or so?

Good times
Professor Farnsworth : GOOD NEWS EVERYBODY
never roll Crit power on weapons, it's terrible and literally everything else is better

you want 2x enrage, behind and CDR (for deadly gamble and rotation smoothness). 5th roll is Flat damage when you get ambush

Etching are typically energetics cause they're strong af, more CDR is always good
Yes, cause that's a per server base and doesn't go with you. Except Inventory, that character
The necro lord strikes again
6R1MM01R3 wrote: »
SageWindu wrote: »
Hmm. So CH is essentially no more.

You know what? That's fine. Because I'm still gonna play the game how I with my friends. And if I wanna do so as an elf with some tig-ol' bitties decked out in a set of shiny ceremonial(?) battle armor, you hardcore server merge heads (observation: oh damn, did that sound better in my head) can't stop me. Or my friends. So there. Ahem.

That said, how about fixing some of these other issues, like, say... loot drops? Or maybe even something small like the scarf and cape glitch? Maybe make things a little easier for us few pad players, like not having the game sh*t itself for having the gall to use certain items on the hotbar? Eh? Eh?

Sadly the cape/scarf glitch can only be fixed by unequip and re-equip or with "unethical" means, it's a known bug that BHS never bothered fixing.

Or just Greet them...fixes as well
There's quests in this game????????? I only know vanguards
You know what they say, Third time's the charm

Now prepare for the Forbidden invasion, coming to a Merge PVE near you
WitchyGirl wrote: »
If Celestial Hills server is staying as a seperate server , then it should be renamed as "Allemantheia"
to match the other New servers names as the 3 major captials / provinces on the TERA map for consistency


PVP = Kaiator
PVE = Velika
PVE RP = Allemantheia

And also for possible shortcut abbreviations: KT, VK, and AM
k5js7.png

You know, i back CH getting renamed to Alle

Cause it's dead and empty like CH is Elegiggle 4Head Feelsbadman
Alien99 wrote: »
Post still says free slots are TBD, but ok. I did a text search of the page for Free and slots and only saw TBD.
That mitigates part of my issue. Not sure why they didn't just make it automatic. Something like:
AV and TR will be merged and you don't have to do anything unless you have more than 20 characters across those servers.
That would have made the whole thing automagic. You know, the way computers without bugs are supposed to work?
Sigh.
We'll see tomorrow.
Thanks all for the clarifications.

It was stated on their stream of the character slots

mEME being mEME and not editting their own posts
LancerJiva wrote: »
CH So dead lol. Global chat hasn't moved in 20 minutes.

cause im not there to kick it in the nuts to restart it
Stuff will probably go into that temp bank during the merge since there is only one so probably best to make room
TJKat wrote: »
technically Gameforge is BHS's partner, and EME is BHS's sister company

This might be a little nit-picky, but you were wanting to be "technical". EME a subsidiary of BHS, not a sister company. The difference is important. Sister companies would have more or less equal standing, and would interact with each other as two independent companies. A relationship similar to the one between Gameforge and BHS. A subsidiary is at the mercy of their parent company and has to do what they're told. Oversimplified, but accurate enough.

And this is why we can't have nice things
Exactly the everyone else

Idoneal > Slaughter > Guile > Ambush (crafted from high tier dungeon mats, requires 0 skill level)
Firian wrote: »
How about the glyph points glitch that happened during transfers? o.o was that adressed? couldn't watch the stream

https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/28550/regarding-awakened-classes-with-server-merge#latest


Literally on the next page
Cause they know what they're doing with people who know how to play and make stuff
There was a forum post like last month or something saying there will be more info about talents later
Just tera things because its so WONDERFULLY OPTIMIZED




/s
Eme making smart decisions everyday :clap:
Babbelsim wrote: »
I cant wait for the Livestream later today, see how many friends im going to lose or not :'(

we can share our dead server together my dood








when I come back from life break
Kirasaka wrote: »
Is this going to be the final vote or will we end up with another one on discord or somewhere else a day after the vote ends?

next poll will be on youtube and you have to like the video for the choice you want
I mean if you call it Kaiator then you still can call it Kaia for short tbh
6R1MM01R3 wrote: »
For what I've read, there are vulnerabilities in xingcode that could allow someone skilled or just well known in code to use it to freely browse other people's files in their computers through xingcode ;)

maybe someone should and cause another epidemic so EME removes it
cause its on the main page

Only minor stuff not worth it go on forums were the 1% of people who use it see it

Also cause eme uses their own forums once a month
The necro lords strike again
If you can't beat them, join them - A man
Bro Valk's like nowhere near it's patch date, doubt they even thought about it
Truly riveting and exciting gameplay, rivalling Fishing Fantasy 15, the savior of tera

Also +50% increase on Crude 'rod' puns
Get guardian from dougal, endlessly enchant and upgrade it over and over, Accessories and brooch can be upgraded as well

very linear, can't go wrong (except picking bad lines)
6R1MM01R3 wrote: »
For those who keep pointing out "read when you join a server" "why did you join a RP server" I think for most the playerbase of CH we just joined because was the first server in the list that said PVE whether had a RP tag or not. In true RP servers most of the population stay "in-character" during their active time online, that is something I rarely ever saw in CH, RP servers have an ever present GM moderating behavior that goes against role playing and even names can get moderated for the sake of a role playing environment and CH lacked all of that. CH is the RP server just by tag and not by practice, something that was never enforced officially by GMs or the entirety of the server population.

are there mmorpg's out there that have true role playing servers? I only ask cause I never heard of any before like the ones you describe

Some FFxiv servers (Balmung, Mateus) have some pretty good RP (and lowkey [filtered] kappa) since there is a very large community of RPers on those servers and they have FCs/guilds dedicated to being a set thing. Last i heard there was a blitzball-equest tourney on there, complete with cheerleaders and everything
Babbelsim wrote: »
A better way would have been if they had the poll here on the forums or even better on their main page on their website and ADVERTISED it on twitter, you know with link to the poll etc.

That would be smart, too smart infact
KXRC9JMW74 wrote: »
Vinyltails wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »
Babbelsim wrote: »
@Kaizoe that was so beautiful written, thank you for saying the right word i could not find



On other news for people who do not come on Discord, this is what KitTeaCup had to say over the matter
IlV5MqZ.png

so make sure you tune in on the Friday Livestream

But the free transfers start Thursday, before the live stream.

people can wait 1 damn day to see if the decison has changed

Oh wait no they can't cause everyone is inpatient as all hell

Kind of an ignorant way to talk yo people but I guess ignorance runs all over

Do i care? I just speak from my own observation
voidy wrote: »
Vinyltails wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »
Babbelsim wrote: »
@Kaizoe that was so beautiful written, thank you for saying the right word i could not find



On other news for people who do not come on Discord, this is what KitTeaCup had to say over the matter
IlV5MqZ.png

so make sure you tune in on the Friday Livestream

But the free transfers start Thursday, before the live stream.

people can wait 1 damn day to see if the decison has changed

Oh wait no they can't cause everyone is inpatient as all hell

More like there's a time limit on how long you can transfer and how long you have to wait before you can transfer again, so every day matters.

You can always just Transfer 1 time, just make an alt on the servers (before or after) to see if you like the server before transfering over

Simple..no wait period on transfer if you only transfer once
Kirasaka wrote: »
TJKat wrote: »
So, instead of using their official website/forum, they've put the poll on twitter (3rd party website), excluding anyone without a twitter (3rd party website) account from voting. Nice.
Heres your reason as to why the poll wasnt on the official website.... Because 'its a nice way'
a7c25672d4c372d7ecdfe4cb013d1b3d.png

aka 'more people use twitter than forums, including us Kappa'
clfarron4 wrote: »
Babbelsim wrote: »
@Kaizoe that was so beautiful written, thank you for saying the right word i could not find



On other news for people who do not come on Discord, this is what KitTeaCup had to say over the matter
IlV5MqZ.png

so make sure you tune in on the Friday Livestream

But the free transfers start Thursday, before the live stream.

people can wait 1 damn day to see if the decison has changed

Oh wait no they can't cause everyone is inpatient as all hell
insert 'LOK! LOK! LOK!' quotes
they won't change them until console has the gear revamp patch. Main reason they were changed was cause all the items in them were irrelevant since they were old enchanting stuff (just a few tokens) and there was never any change to rates before then so they wont since PC never had it, Console will pretty much follow PC to the core once the basics are set (aka after the next patch)
●▅▇█▇▆▅▄▄▇ #saveCesspitHills
TLX wrote: »
gufymike wrote: »
That's low-level, in the end anything under 65 is low-level. Even then you can argue under 410 ilvl is low level. Though I won't here. The point is probably no one is queueing because they are above it. It's hard to get sabex and mc to pop (lvl 61 and lvl 63 dungeons)

I have an human archer who is my main,lvl 65 with over 410,and still queuing is hard. Pls give me the reason cus i win, you have no idea and you have [removed forum violation].

Wow hostile much, and you wonder why people made fun of you in the past

No-one uses IM over 410 cause people in matching are bad and don't know how to play their classes, everyone runs with guild/friends/statics. People use IM at low level but it only takes 3 runs to get to the next bracket so the pool is tiny
clfarron4 wrote: »
1) Can you move a single character as many times as you want with the free transfers?
2) Can all characters be moved under the free transfers?
3) Will there be a special consideration for CH with the free transfers (enabling free transfers from CH to any server)?

They can clarify, but my understanding is that all transfers to and from all servers will be free to all characters, and you can move as many as you want as long as they meet the normal criteria. (But if you move all your characters off a server that will merge, note that the banks won't merge then, so you'd be better off leaving at least one character on the merging servers.)

That won't be an issue cause CH isn't getting merged ayyyyyyyyy
Babbelsim wrote: »
As a CH player i was so hyped for the server merge and look at it now... nothing!
Im so sad, mad and disappointed... CH is so dead in all aspects, its hard to find people for LFG's because most of them MOVED to TR, there is literally NO RPing going on ever and believe me i know! I have been on DAILY for the past 2 and a half YEARS!

Pls EME merge us to we deserve it!

Well there is a few RP groups here and there, small but you gotta know people...iirc it's like The blue caravan or something?...House Arboera jumps in as well. I know one of my friends goes to a gala thing they do now and again but yeahhhhh, gotta know people really...Desire isn't really around much and don't really hold public casnio nights anymore as far as I know (or at least announce like before)
Digivolve wrote: »
I don't play on CH but I do feel bad for those guys. Time to spam #SaveCH everywhere I guess

As long as we have the Forbidden wall, we're safe...once that goes down we're screwed (physically and mentally)
i called it the moment i heard of the merge and i laughed my head off when i read i was right

World isn't ready for our dead CH server memes, personalities and the great Forbidden wall
No-one ever does Akasha since it's abysmal exp
get ilvl 439 (Frost) then you get the quest (velik's banquet)
It's for Elin gunner specifically Kappa
Don't worry, Gridiron gets turned into the underground arena in a far future patch

Until then, Gridiron is more "just get (g)rid of it"

They won't make changes until then
Idoneal > Slaughter to +12 + Shadowvain accessories > Guile to +12 with 3 manor and 2 shadowvain (for more crit since no healing accessories) > Ambush to +15. You can start wearing Guile around 10 if it has the same/better rolls than slaughter (Guile rolls should aim to be 100% perfect, guides help)
He didn't log in during the week they gave out 5 free slots, unfortunately.

Doesn't stop you buying them does it
lv20 and it's auto given to you
L3YGJEJ3FF wrote: »
There IS nothing like that on the xbox one. There's only a delete button.

deleting a character over lv40 gives it deletion status, meaning it will be gone in 24 hours and allows you to cancel


If console really doesn't have this basic feature, then GG
First boss gives at least 1 foot/hand of any type, 2nd boss typically belt...3rd gives at least 1 weapon/chest box.
Soryah wrote: »
My 5 character slots disappeared before I claimed them. I saw them they were in my Item Claim but the next time I logged in, they weren't there anymore.
I would apply them if you will have too many characters on a merged server however! I thought the announcement said you could not enter that server until you had fewer characters than the total on the server after the merge. That would keep you from entering the server if you did not have space for all your characters.

Does this I have to delete one of my character?

And now I have bigger problem, I didn't find answer for this anywhere. Now that the servers have merged, the game says that I have to delete one of my 3 characters before I can start playing the game. Why? When we just got 5 character slots so there shouldn't be problem having more than 2 characters? Or do I really have to delete one of them.. :(

Put indeletion > use character slots for every character it says to delete > Cancel deletion > done
Put in deletion status > Get slots > use them > Cancel deletion

done
@ M6KPMHHLR3
You're right, and I love TERA. Loved it for many, many years. No harm in trying, even if it doesn't bring any change, at least we can say we gave it a shot. Right?

In the end, it's just another thread to meet the weekly "stuff we need but ignored by bhs" quota we seem to have
@ Kirasaka At the end of the day, it doesn't hurt to try, right?

As long as you're not expecting or hoping for change cause the chance of it is 0, unless a Korean suggested it otherwise you're just letting yourself down
> @M6KPMHHLR3 said:
> This is never going to happen, this has been asked many times before, they will never do it, they do not care about quality only money.
>
> Their newest mmo is on UE3 and -has optimization issues in its own hype trailer-.
>
> Do the math.

You're absolutely correct. However, if we all unite as a community and speak out in support about, about what we - the consumer, wants.... - we can possibly make a difference?

No, BHS straight up don't care for the community outside of Korea.

Source 1: We've been whining for optimization since FOREVER to the point that topic is beyond a dead horse, yet game still runs like trash

Source 2: PC has been asking for Talents for 3 YEARS as the devs balanced around talents, despite saying they don't and not giving us to them cause 'too buggy'. ONLY NOW, 3 YEARS LATER have we finally heard ANYTHING about talents potentially coming

Source 3: Ktera was going to bring out Talismans but received massive backlash from their community which immediately cancelled the update. Koreans whine and their concerns are fixed WHILE WE'RE ASKING FOR BASIC STUFF, yeah, thry don't care for us. Hell, I've seen the words "talisman" pop up now and again in Gameforge (EU publisher) so who knows if we're gonna get a [filtered] system

Face the facts, be realistic, Vets have been asking for bare basics and yet here we are, empty handed. Remember who you're asking when thinking of suggestions, if BHS can't even make one of their highest profit games (PUBG) run well, then i highly doubt they'll do anything else for their other titles
As much as people want this, BHS is never gonna do it...just look at A:IR their newest game, that's on UE3 in 2018...there is no way they're gonna touch UE4

Besides, it's too much effort for them and BHS hates effort..we've asked for this before along with other basic stuff but yeah...Just another thing they're gonna laugh at and ignore dispite the support
Let them deal with Console merge testing guinea pigs before asking...I hear of frequent downtimes now and again
I have a question here, to not make another thread.

Titles for schm, lkhm and sshm... are they glowing titles or just orange?


Which ones are glowing titles? So far i only saw limited event ones like for pvp.

orange. Only the highest tier dungeon title glow for it's 77 clears
It's based on how many bets are in

More people there = more bets = more winnings cause larger pool.

Literally how betting works irl really, if no-one bets, aint really a prize pool to dish out
So they can sell shape changers
Rodeo is simple, hit the pigs and keep the safe and don't let the die, employ the exact same strat as hay bale: Running in circles. Hit pigs infront of you to pick up, never stop moving for longer than a single cast and you should rarely ever lose one
HAAYAAKD43 wrote: »
the item xp buff for 2 hours is a nice ninja addition tot he elite bar BUT replacing the gold boosts with 12 2 hr xp buffs per 24 would be even better.
who even uses gold boost on the elite bar?

bro think of the G A I N S and G A L A X Y B R A I N S T R A T S of gold boosters while levelling KappaNoKappa
MT or TR, most somewhat lean towards TR cause pve server

There's a server merge coming down the line later so hopefully it helps/collisidates population better
Hexxu wrote: »
Hi, no it is not there and that's what threw me. I deleted all the characters on the other servers as they said to do.
But the bank items should remain, once the servers merged you should get said button but it is not there.

It was right after the servers came back up so I will check again today when I get home.

Did you delete EVERY character on the other servers so they were empty? If so

Will my banks be merged?
All of your bank contents from different servers will be moved to a temporary bank on the new server. (Your account banks from different servers will only transfer if you have at least one character on the server where the bank items are stored.)
You will see a button at the bottom of your standard bank menu to access the temporary bank. The temporary bank has multiple tabs and tab pages to accommodate even a large number of bank items.
You can only withdraw items from the temporary bank; you cannot deposit items into the temporary bank. The temporary bank has no time limit, so you do not need to rush to make room in your standard bank.

If you're missing shots, then you're not using the skill when the distance marker is visible. Standard rule of Tera: If you see the distance marker, it will hit. You may have to look slightly infront to pick it up but you'll get into the rythmn of it after practice
It's not really that dexterous (im [filtered] at those), as long as you see the distance marker next to the cursor (and you're in range), you will hit
Just remember that the hit is very short range and aim slightly infront while running in hitting it in circles and it's pretty simple

The short range gets alot
Every week, Tuesday or Sunday iirc...never bothered to remember since they're basically pointless
or just spend 10g on the npc or abit more for all 4, heaven forbid you don't have 90 of each npc

or befriend people who have that tier of tera rewards
FDXL9MWJR5 wrote: »
what is iframe, what is edge? In this guide https://essentialmana.com/chickens-advanced-dps-pve-warrior-guide/ I really can not learn.

Iframe: Immunity frames. When active, you take no damage during the animation and you dodge attacks. For Warrior, it's evasive roll and Death from above (and backstab if you time it right)

Edge: LITERALLY WARRIOR'S ENTIRE MECHANIC. If you take a moment to actually read your skills, you see some generate edge on the mob (shown as a bar under their hp). This is used to power up Scythe, your hardest hitting ability. NEVER EVER SCYTHE WITH LESS THAN 10 EDGE, you'll losing out on millions of damage. Taking a look at this
FDXL9MWJR5 wrote: »
Death from above> Poison blade> Scythe> Combative Strike> Rising Fury> Backstab> Cascade of Stuns> Pounce

To be frank, literally the worst combo you could do.

1) You scythe with literally like 2 edge, bad...Scythe always ends your edge building

2)No traverse cut applied. While warrior is before it's revamp, it's an endurance shred, so you could be hitting harder

3) No blade draw, literally your best skill outside of Scythe and the best at building edge. ALWAYS look to chain into blade draw, you get glyphs later to let it reset and generate more edge

4) pounce, pretty useless.,.if it doesn't generate edge or chain to blade draw, it's junk.

5) No charging slash, pretty good skill, chains into basically every and blade draw. Charging > Blade draw is your best edge combo

Look at the 'rotation' section in the guide to see how to best build edge fastest
Dialoonia wrote: »
Why carry a bow anyways if you just use magic? Cant you just shot arrow wuth your fingers?

To act as a conduit. Like how Sorcs use discs to channel their abilities when it's all magic
UnderSHADE is the previous gear cycles version of undercedes...they're useless to you and devs never bother to change the reward you get from going to iod the first timr from shade to relevant tokens

Just toss them
Ah yes, another one of these threads throws it onto the pile of threads bhs is going to be laughing at.

For real though:

1) Das a forbidden word. We've beaten this horse to the point its bloody dust now. Though i did remember seeing a few comments about some minor optimization in a few patches I think but i'll believe it when i see it

2) You expect BHS to balance right? Want World peace as well? Awakening 2.0 is coming arou d the corner and talents as well so that should at leadt throw some power curves in there (like ninjas not being entirely garbage with their non existant Chi gen)

3) TBH, looking at videos for the newer dungeons, they don't look that bad really, especially the newer one (that requires 452 or whatever) but the issue is really the time period between real content. But hey, f2p mmo, can't expect short patch cycles, especially with bundling they like to do
No string or quiver?

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