TERA Online forum archive
Posts by KillerPenguins
TomRipley wrote: »
I've removed the game from my system, after losing my SSD, replacing it( and getting two this time to separate my OS so i wouldn't have to reinstall windows a again) It keep crashing during the same spot of xigncode loading that borked my first ssd. I'm done. I'm out. EME and BHS won't get another cent from me until this hot garbage is removed. Ive got a mountain of other games and hobbies so it won't be hard. See you guys later. I'll keep an eye out from time to time but ultimately I'm disgusted with EME/BHS and am quite leery of trying anything from the in the future.
I realize you're "done" after what happened, but the most useful thing so that there's documented evidence of this problem happening (and exactly what caused it) would be if you could submit your diagnostic details to EME in a ticket, including your XIGNCODE log. Regardless of whether it results in them removing the tool or not, these bugs should be fixed.

There's a certain irony to be found here, proposing they should help out a company that in turn refuses to properly communicate with us about this whole issue. I mean, sonic has written about this several times. If EME would be interested in fixing this stuff, they could've simply asked for details themselves.

Who gives two [filtered] about the company. Help other people that could similarly see something bad happen to their SSD.

Not possible to patch xigncode in a way that stops it from damaging older SSD's without also patching out it's ability to cause blue screens, which couldn't possibly make it less effective than the 0% success rate it already has, but would stop it from ostensibly detecting certain hooks.
KitTeaCup wrote: »
Here's the latest update that's going to be added to the upcoming FAQ.

Players that play on college networks may be facing issues due to the firewalls. More details to come, but it's been notified to Wellbia.

Wellbia is aware of this issue and is working on a solution (ETA TBD) but this is an example of players collaborating with us and Wellbia to improve the experience. Yay teamwork!

I'll make sure to keep letting everyone know what's coming up, and how this type of feedback is the answer! :)

It's a good thing that you're attempting to eventually allow more legitimate players to play tera, however.. you've done nothing to address the fact that xigncode is simply not capable of detecting the cheats currently being used on tera. No matter what configuration it uses, the program is not designed for that purpose. It's not something collaboration with wellbia can fix, because their program isn't capable of it, even if it wasn't bypassed before it was released..
Basically your post just confirms the fears many people have voiced that xigncode is only capable of stopping legitimate players from playing tera, and does not stop any cheaters. in any game it's ever been in. at all.

I for one would appreciate an explanation of why you added a tool that has no purpose other than stopping legitimate players from logging in and worsens performance for those who can still log in.
Custom version? Wtf is that? Can we have an explanation? You're owning OUR computers with you weird buggy soft and you don't say what it does!!

It just means there's a custom list of programs it blocks... unfortunately, xigncode's capabilities do not extend to the cheats currently used on tera.
RandomElin wrote: »
The problem channels are say, area, and global if I understand right. Maybe add a captcha to allow sending messages to those channels. If the captcha is passed, the result would be good until it times out. Its possible the captcha protection may also need to be added to whispers in case bots start trying to mass whisper.

this won't help, they have live humans watching the bots just in case.. one guy is probably watching hundreds bots on 10 different games *shrug*
RandomElin wrote: »
RandomElin wrote: »
Looks like a loss cause at this point. I suspect EME would rather run TERA NA into the ground than remove xigncode. I may be wrong about that, though.

May want to consider TERA EU since it is xigncode-free. I already registered an account. I'll probably delete my wine bottle for TERA NA later today. The initial patching of TERA EU will be annoying for me since my internet connection is so slow. Probably will take a few additional days after install for me to get it up and running. That is one of the reasons I was hoping EME's response to the fallout would be to just remove xigncode.

Xigncode is so easy to bypass that I don't really see it killing TERA.. you can literally just replace two files every major patch and xigncode won't even
try to start - you could do that on linux and most likely play just fine.. it just bothers me because one of the primary methods people are using to bypass it is also the most popular cheat tool, so people who never cheated before are now installing the utility that makes it much easier to cheat.

I suspect EME would ban players they catch using a bypass since bypassing xigncode basically counts as cheating at this point. If they decide to crack down on it, I suspect lots would wind up banned. Not worth it to me since TERA EU is xigncode-free. Honestly, though, I'm kind of surprised by the reports of the drop in the player base. Either xigncode wrecked the game experience for lots more players than expected, or a larger proportion of players chose to leave instead of bypassing xigncode then expected.

EME has no way of detecting the people have bypassed xigncode - their clients are happily reporting that xigncode is running and that there are no cheats present. I suspect the large drop in the playerbase is mainly the more casual players, who aren't willing to install 3rd party programs just to play tera. I'm guessing that because I see a lot of the afk spots are less populated, but most of the people who run dungeons still are. Also, even if xigncode wasn't there, this patch is super buggy/laggy/desync-y thanks to the gold star programming from our friends over at BHS. Same thing happened in korea when they "optimized" stuff.
RandomElin wrote: »
Looks like a loss cause at this point. I suspect EME would rather run TERA NA into the ground than remove xigncode. I may be wrong about that, though.

May want to consider TERA EU since it is xigncode-free. I already registered an account. I'll probably delete my wine bottle for TERA NA later today. The initial patching of TERA EU will be annoying for me since my internet connection is so slow. Probably will take a few additional days after install for me to get it up and running. That is one of the reasons I was hoping EME's response to the fallout would be to just remove xigncode.

Xigncode is so easy to bypass that I don't really see it killing TERA.. you can literally just replace two files every major patch and xigncode won't even
try to start - you could do that on linux and most likely play just fine.. it just bothers me because one of the primary methods people are using to bypass it is also the most popular cheat tool, so people who never cheated before are now installing the utility that makes it much easier to cheat.
Missguided wrote: »
Why is the clear cheat still posting other peoples problems from BDO like it's proven fact for Tera?.

Why aren't admins in here locking down that account that's clearly against this whole thing because they stand to lose from it.

The shallow repeating rants laced with gif's and other people pictures are tantamount to admission.

If XIGNCODE3 didn't stop me playing, this cheater trying her best to bend you all to her "OMG THEY GONNA BLOCK THE HACK I PAID FOR" mentality would have.

It got old, fast.

xigncode does not block any hacks or cheats, at all. zero. none. i don't know why they're spamming, but that's not the reason.
TERA is not saying "insufficient memory" because your computer is out of memory, tera is out of memory that it can allocate.. so it crashes. it's really common when playing at high resolutions. bump it down to 1080p and your problem will probably disappear.
MistyTera wrote: »
memes

can you stop spamming your barely coherent ranting? it's crowding up a thread which is full of actual discussions.
RandomElin wrote: »
Talking about cheats, EME should really try implementing some so called quality of life cheats themselves as an added bonus type of thing for playing on TERA NA. Of course, they wouldn't be cheats if they were standard. I suspect that would cut down on more actual cheating than the xigncode rollout. Also, maybe it would cut down on all the cries of "poorly optimized".

I don't think eme is actually capable of that for the most part.. I think the best we could hope for from eme acting independently would be "stock" ini edits, or other minor things like that.
TomRipley wrote: »
The worst part of this, is the official statement came as a response to a player calling them out publicly on it. Communication has never been eme's strong suit, and it looks like we're going down the road gameforge went down on EU a couple years ago.. hopefully en masse can figure it out soon™ before we wind up losing even more players...

After I heard Sean's "statement" on the friday stream, I've pretty much given up hope. That was a very, very sad moment. That came across as so oblivious and arrogant regarding community concerns that I can't imagine that they'll follow it up with anything substantial.

Although honestly, they should.
From all I've gathered from the forums, there is a *slight* decline in players. Doesn't sound that bad, right? But then again, take into consideration that it also coincides with the very moment of a new content and gear patch, and that's traditionally when player numbers spike.

I'm not worried about the decline in players, it doesn't bother me because that's just tera, those people will probably be back.. what DOES worry me is the HUGE spike in people cheating. It's not healthy for a game when most players consider a third-party cheat program to be required for play.
Vinyltails wrote: »
Saabi wrote: »
This problem is gonna be even more infuriating when DSU comes out. Can't wait to run into the problem of my party running out of blue nocs and not being able to clear DSU ESPECIALLY when we are missing other things that increase dps that KOREA has. But whatever...
<LFG> DSU SLAYING ONLY FULL +9 SKILLED (blue noc only!)

You missed out the "Zerk/Warrior Only"

there are other classes????
I'm lonely hikikamori neet,i dont have friends who want to play the game,would this game boring to me or not?
P.s btw i love anime,2D girls,and read sometimes fantasy books in case someone wants to be my friend(or have similar interests).
Wayting for answers,bye bye.

You'll probably enjoy leveling and doing some of the quests, exploring the world alone.. but for the most part you can't get into end game alone, unless you join a guild/make friends on the game.
On top of that, there seems to be no -official- statement about Xigncode3 prior to June 5th.
The worst part of this, is the official statement came as a response to a player calling them out publicly on it. Communication has never been eme's strong suit, and it looks like we're going down the road gameforge went down on EU a couple years ago.. hopefully en masse can figure it out soon™ before we wind up losing even more players...
Yamazuki wrote: »
I'm not entirely sure why people are demanding answers for a question that's already been answered anyways.
The question of "was it intentional" is not what people are asking.. people are asking "dear god, why?"

Again, "anti-cheat program that actively encourages people to cheat by only hurting legitimate players and not cheaters" is an accurate summary of xigncode. The only question is how long EME leaves it in and bleeds legitimate players while gaining more illegitimate ones. (Edit: this sounds like speculation on my part, but it's not. There's hard data, from one of the cheat devs, that shows exactly how many people have just started to cheat because of xigncode.)
Saabi wrote: »
This problem is gonna be even more infuriating when DSU comes out. Can't wait to run into the problem of my party running out of blue nocs and not being able to clear DSU ESPECIALLY when we are missing other things that increase dps that KOREA has. But whatever...
<LFG> DSU SLAYING ONLY FULL +9 SKILLED (blue noc only!)
RandomElin wrote: »
dmaxcustom wrote: »
EME does want to answer because it is not in their hands. BHS included this on the game, not them. Also, why answering while the community behaves like some sort of entitled snowflake brats that insult left and right?
They did screwed up by not telling this before hand. However, why would they? The result would have not changed at all, specially considering the community would have been insufferable either way. And by the way, I have been lurking here since before Tera Rising, and guess what, the community has behaved the same way year after year, there is a point where you will not care anymore about such disrespectful customers.

But oh well. Who cares right?

I disagree strongly with you. If it didn't appear like they were trying to sneak it in, the pre-xigncode fallout would have likely been avoided for the most part. (Of course, it appears that the post-xigncode fallout dwarfs the pre-xigncode fallout.) And no, the whole "BHS included this" notion is likely outright wrong. As far as I can tell, xigncode is typically done at the publisher level. It is possible that EME was pressured by Bluehole, though.

The lesson from this seems to be that it is a bad idea to add something like xigncode to a game after a player base has already been formed. Unless, of course, the player base is overwhelmingly demanding it to be added. The reason for this is simple. The point of xigncode is not actually to catch cheaters. Instead, it is to improve the game experience for the users. The problem is that this is a trade off. Xigncode is going to hurt performance and even prevent some from even being able to play the game. Include it at the start of a game and the player base will largely be composed of players ok with that trade off. Try to add it in later and the point of xigncode becomes a complete failure since many in the player base will not be ok with that trade off (particularly those who suddenly find that the game is unplayable).
Xign was absolutely added by BHS. Whether it's at eme's prompting or not is another question, but it modified the tera.exe, which means bhs was definitely involved. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised at this point if we got a "they accidentally included an anti-cheat program which was not meant to be deployed in our region...." kind of thing.. but maybe that's just optimism.
There's a LOT of misinformation and confusion in this thread, because the official information we have amounts to absolutely nothing. "We put it in to try to stop cheaters" is their entire statement. But the fact that it doesn't stop cheaters, and does significantly harm performance for many people has not been addressed at all. These massive forum posts are just people panicking because there is no information, same way 1000+ people started using cheats this week to bypass the thing. Nobody is worried about eme's response because they don't seem to respond to anything, so everyone can safely keep cheating and this game i enjoy and play a lot will keep getting worse for the few of us who still refuse to cheat.
Honestly, blue nocs would not be as big an issue if we weren't so far behind ktera balance - for instance, once velik's buff was added to rrhm, it's now easy to clear even with no consumables, when people were wiping it in 15 minute fights + full consumables just a few days earlier.
Catservant wrote: »
Is it hard to learn to survive? I am learning mystic right now, working toward their apex awakening, and I have a hard time keeping the zerkers alive when they unleash. Is it something the zerker can control or is it entirely on the healer?

As a mystic, cast a thrall of life on them, if reset, even better, add a totem throw out a couple of heals should get them through facetanking on top of killing themselves.

once awakened, thrall of life is amazing.. before awakening, mystic is hard life.
Xerses wrote: »
If they are cm they're pretty lousy at their job. It reminds me of what 343 did to halo and how they only hired people who didn't like halo and killed that franchise. Or how disney and kathleen kennedy ruined star wars. All the original people at eme left and they got all these new sjws like spacecats for example and slowly killing tera with these asinine ideas like xingading

I don't think it's fair to blame the *brand new* CM for TERA's current problems, at least give her a chance and see how she reacts/learns in this role.

There's not really a win here for EME, because no matter what happens, nothing has been gained. If xign is removed, the game performs how it performed last week, but with more cheaters. If it's left in, the game performs worse until it's removed, and has more and more cheaters every day to get away from xigncode. At this point it's just triage. How long do you leave xigncode in while it's only function is to encourage people to cheat? That's eme's real decision here. Of course, what they'll most likely do is change the settings of xigncode so it doesn't hurt performance as much or stop as many people from launching, but the fact is that it will *still* hurt performance, and *still* stop people from logging in, and both of those things are just encouraging people to cheat or quit.
TR is the most populated server at the moment, according to unofficial statistics.. The game as a whole is just very.. quiet lately.
On release, ninja was really really good.. i'm not sure where console patch is, but ninja is still viable until awakening, basically. Post-awakening it's the lowest DPS and also suffers from a bug that makes it's dps even worse at times. You'll still be able to clear content even then, just you'll be doing literally half the damage of awakened classes.
RandomElin wrote: »
RandomElin wrote: »
To clarify, rootkits are a type of malware. Plenty of sources say xigncode is a rootkit. Based on the system stability issues and out right blue screens that some people are getting, it sounds like it may be mucking with the host OS. Hence why I consider it a rootkit at this point.

I'm not sure TERA's implementation qualifies as a rootkit, at least not in every case. It seems it's only installing itself in the system in some cases. It also seems to not really be the best-behaved program in the world, frequently straying into parts of memory it's not meant to be in - which is what's causing the blue screens. I'm not really sure it qualifies as malware, either, but it's a pretty close description - a program behaving in unintended ways, harming system performance, and not performing it's stated function is pretty bad no matter what you call it.

The thing is should it even be able to get into those parts of memory it's not meant to be in? Operating Systems tend to have protections built in. Sounds like it may have usurped the OS to some degree at least. This to me sounds like rootkit behavior. I guess one can argue about rather or not it is really malware, though.

Blue screens are (very basically) the OS's last attempt to prevent (further) damage in the case of a misbehaving program or piece of hardware. If it didn't have admin permissions, it probably wouldn't be able to cause as many bluescreens... sadly since it runs from the tera process and most people need to run tera as admin....
RandomElin wrote: »
To clarify, rootkits are a type of malware. Plenty of sources say xigncode is a rootkit. Based on the system stability issues and out right blue screens that some people are getting, it sounds like it may be mucking with the host OS. Hence why I consider it a rootkit at this point.

I'm not sure TERA's implementation qualifies as a rootkit, at least not in every case. It seems it's only installing itself in the system in some cases. It also seems to not really be the best-behaved program in the world, frequently straying into parts of memory it's not meant to be in - which is what's causing the blue screens. I'm not really sure it qualifies as malware, either, but it's a pretty close description - a program behaving in unintended ways, harming system performance, and not performing it's stated function is pretty bad no matter what you call it.
Meningitis wrote: »
snip for space
Thanks for responding with your input! In that regard then, EME just seems horribly understaffed to deal with actually looking over things to actively ban cheaters. Either that or they just don't care about putting in the work to make sure their game runs smoothly for legitimate players.

The sad thing is that a competent person with access to eme's current logs and knowledge of TERA would be able to spend about a few hours writing code to identify cheaters en masse (see what i did there?) which would be a fairly comprehensive solution - a few people would still cheat and a few false positives would slip through the cracks, but the cheats which are obvious and easy to identify, which are generally the more game-breaking breaking ones, would be stopped.. Currently they're mainly banning cheaters on a case by case basis requiring the input of players and a GM manually checking logs and such, which is just ridiculous. It would be a much better use of resources to have a server-sided auto-ban system (perhaps a 3-strikes style thing, one day ban, 3 day ban, 1 week ban, goodbye) with humans only getting involved for false positives and people who contest the ban.
Meningitis wrote: »
RandomElin wrote: »
Never said that xigncode3 was meant to cause blue screens. That is likely a mishap that it isn't supposed to do. Since it is a rootkit, I'm guessing its messing with the underlying OS and causing problems in some cases as a result. If it was perfect, the player base may very well have been getting their systems owned and not even noticing. Instead, it sounds like it typically at least causes performance issues. Like I said before, I don't know everything that xigncode is actually doing. Xigncode isn't the kind of program that I consider ethical.
That raises an interesting point- are there any anti cheat programs out there that actually work that most people would consider ethical? At this point, almost every online game I play uses Xigncode3 or one of it's competitors that seem to operate in a similar manner. Even if xigncode3 functioned well, did it's job, and was secure (lol)- would you consider it necessary to give up some of your privacy to ensure a fair game for everybody? Or is there a much better way to ensure a cheat-free game that isn't so skin-crawlingly intrusive? Or do you think a game's administration should just try to catch cheaters on a case by case basis? I'd like to hear people's thoughts on that.

I wrote a long post on this but then I edited it and it got deleted, so I'll try to be more concise.

Even if xigncode was perfect, TERA's current cheats would still work, just in a different way - the same way they're used on consoles currently.
En masse should approach this problem from (at least) two ways:
1) find a way to identify cheats server-side, for instance very obvious ones like auto-loot should be easy to detect even with current tools. picking up 20 items in half a second can *rarely* happen because of packet loss, but doing it after every boss is a very clear indication that they're cheating.
2) actually ban people, even temp bans, who are cheating. currently, there are very very few people being banned compared to the number who are obviously cheating. even a one-day ban for using an obvious hack would deter people from them. I'd suggest going fairly light on ban length (while punishing as many obvious cheaters as possible) at first, mostly because a huge amount of players are cheating right now and i'd hate to see the game actually die over something that should never have been a problem in the first place. If 1000 cheaters get banned for a day, suddenly less people will want to cheat. I know, crazy.
Meningitis wrote: »
RandomElin wrote: »
Except we already have reports of it causing blue screens and trashing systems so badly that it required a reinstall of the OS. Blaming its victims isn't going to help. Infected is the proper term when speaking of rootkit infections. Repeating its not malware, its not malware isn't going to make it so.

I'm not sure all that xigncode is doing, but its nature does seem to be that of a rootkit. As such, I wouldn't count on what the infected OS tells you about it.
A lot of things cause bluescreens, and not everything that causes a bluescreen is malware. Even a simple normal driver for your computer could rarely cause a bluescreen occasionally if it screws up. I don't know why some instances of xigncode3 are causing computers to bluescreen, but I can tell you I know for a fact that it is not intentionally doing that. Screwing up computers is the opposite of what xigncode3 wants to do because then it's client companies would want to switch anti-cheat services. Even though xigncode3 doesn't do it's job anyway and is a intrusive craptastic excuse for an anti-cheat program.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure with the right know-how you could fix a xigncode3 caused bluescreen problem without having to nuke it and reinstall the OS.

Xigncode3 is still garbage and should be given the boot though. :/

actually xigncode just interacts with some drivers badly. if it touches their protected memory at a bad time, that's a blue screen.. in cases like that, you'd have to get a new piece of hardware to correct xigncode's crappy programming. Earlier tonight, xigncode actually managed to crash my router software because it was trying to access the network drive incorrectly. I decided to unplug the drive, since xigncode scanning it causes my tera to hang for significant amounts of time anyway. It's looking like the only way to safely run tera right now is to have a brand new computer not connected to any network storage, with only tera installed and nothing else... Or just download the bypass from reddit and join the cheaters xigncode was trying to stop. :#
Ellexem wrote: »
RandomElin wrote: »
I'm hoping it is something like Bluehole pressured EME into it, and EME is currently trying to explain to Bluehole why xigncode isn't needed. I really don't know what's up with EME, though.

If I understand it correctly, it's more a case of TERA was the only EME product that was not yet using it. AVA, Closers, Kritika Online. All of them seem to have it. PUBG, which EME seems to do support work for, has it.

Please note that it hasn't been an existential crisis for any of them, as far as I can tell. Problem free? Not at all, going by the various issues google brings up about errors, but certainly not the end of the games.

So, really, none of this will be seen as more than baseless paranoia combined with endless complaining. (All of the talk about xhunter1.sys in the Windows folder kind of goes nowhere when the TERA implementation seems to not use that.)

Not that that makes any of the optics involved any better. That startup screen of XIGNCODE3 alone does absolutely nothing to help with impressions, since it always brings to mind the following for me:

"I'm the third-rate store detective, following your every move, watching all of your interactions. The moment you do something I'm on to you. Discreet? Hostile environment? Harrying legitimate customers? Are those exploits? Those totally are exploits!"

It's all good if they want to put it on TERA just because all their games use it, but at least tailor TERA's implementation to not interfere with TERA. scanning memory? okay, fine, causes a few crashes and false positives, but whatever it doesn't really interfere too bad. It still wouldn't catch any cheats, but fine. Scanning every single hard drive and phone and mp3 player and network drive connected to my computer while tera is running uses such an immense amount of resources that tera basically stalls out at random, it's a bad joke. A game that already needs to be restarted constantly because of memory leaks and frame drops does not need a third-party program added on which causes memory leaks and frame drops. I don't even care about the privacy concerns or the possibility of other malicious programs hijacking xigncode's terribly written program. I just want tera to perform similarly or better than it did last week. As of now I spend half my time in dungeons going on rants about how shite xign is because i can't use any skills for 5-10 seconds at a time while it does whatever the hell it's doing.
The real problem with xigncode vs other anti-cheat solutions is that generally when a competent anti-cheat is deployed, the loudest whiners are the people who are/were cheating, because they'll struggle to do so going forward.. but with xigncode, the only people complaining are the legitimate players who don't want to install the easy-to-use bypass and can't play tera comfortably without it anymore. Any time I complain about this, people just say "yeah i bypassed it, go look at reddit to download it..." It might be funny if it wasn't so depressing.
Oh, I'd like to add to that list of apps that don't work earlier, but instead of listing legit stuff, i'm going to list all the cheats that xigncode stops:








































...
It depends who you are. If you're a decent player on MT, you can probably find a run of pretty much anything within a few minutes during prime time, and within an hour at off hours. If you're a bad player, you can LFG all day and nobody will join you or accept you.
Synnestraa wrote: »
I unknowingly had this xhunter1.sys file on my PC from late 2017 but I haven't seen anything abnormal with my PC since then. Since I already have this file now, could updating TERA with Thursday's patch still pose a risk to my PC or would it be fine to update?

It behaves differently on every machine, and every implementation seems to be different. From what I can tell, it's basically random. Having it installed does nothing if it's not being called by anything - it only runs while TERA is running, for instance. So fire TERA up and if you notice bad performance and/or crashes as so many do.. maybe wait for an official answer before continuing.
inbe4 threads about memeslashers :lol:

memeslash was moooostly fixed server-side, like all the cheats would be if BHS were competent..
Thanks for the responses. So, does xigncode prevent hacking etc, or does it just detect it and you get banned later?
I want to use a dps meter but don't want to get banned.

it is meant to prevent hacking, but does not. it doesn't detect it either. dps meter will not be detected by xigncode at all, it's just not built for it. only way to get banned for dps meter is the same as it was last week, be a [filtered] with it and be obvious about it, and someone will report you
All you can do is add your cries to the pile. File a support ticket and they'll try their best!
MistyTera wrote: »
@KillerPenguins How would you know that?

because xigncode detects basically nothing. as far as i'm aware, the only things it flags are false positives and autohotkey.
MistyTera wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Not sure about all TERA comunity but those who use Steam to get access on TERA werent axed at all if we compare friday vs fiday at the same hours.

Steam only shows what could be a low % of players that are currently playing the game. So far looking at this it seems TERA continues like if nothing has happened with this patch.

u_u

Of course numbers aren't different.. everyone who couldn't login due to xigncode started cheating to log in anyway, and anyone who was cheating before xigncode didn't even notice the patch. It's almost as if EME is encouraging people to cheat.

Yeah, I am on the side where people wonder "why include a tool that is not going to solve the issues that is suposed to solve?"

I mean, I guess EME included Xigncode as a way to fight gold sellers but everyone here knew it wouldnt work anyway, so why make something useless that will only get players upset even more than they are already?

BTW, does anyone knows what is it the small patch from today?

No someone posted a gold seller on forums recently! Probably using the bypass obviously! :'( :/ I told you there was a way for hackers and I told everyone just my searching it myself!

f0qkue.jpg

*facepalm* google for this situation, but at least we know that we need something better!

actually, you don't need bypass for gold selling bots, since xigncode doesn't stop them to begin with..
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Not sure about all TERA comunity but those who use Steam to get access on TERA werent axed at all if we compare friday vs fiday at the same hours.

Steam only shows what could be a low % of players that are currently playing the game. So far looking at this it seems TERA continues like if nothing has happened with this patch.

u_u

Of course numbers aren't different.. everyone who couldn't login due to xigncode started cheating to log in anyway, and anyone who was cheating before xigncode didn't even notice the patch. It's almost as if EME is encouraging people to cheat.

Yeah, I am on the side where people wonder "why include a tool that is not going to solve the issues that is suposed to solve?"

I mean, I guess EME included Xigncode as a way to fight gold sellers but everyone here knew it wouldnt work anyway, so why make something useless that will only get players upset even more than they are already?

BTW, does anyone knows what is it the small patch from today?

It's the loading screen contest, they just announced it c:
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Not sure about all TERA comunity but those who use Steam to get access on TERA werent axed at all if we compare friday vs fiday at the same hours.

Steam only shows what could be a low % of players that are currently playing the game. So far looking at this it seems TERA continues like if nothing has happened with this patch.

u_u

Of course numbers aren't different.. everyone who couldn't login due to xigncode started cheating to log in anyway, and anyone who was cheating before xigncode didn't even notice the patch. It's almost as if EME is encouraging people to cheat.
Scream about it all you want, you're wasting your time.

Take your sensationalism and cram it, if you don't want to play this game, no one's forcing you to stay. Based on my experience with this program from previous games I've played that used it, you're blowing it WAY out of proportion. Just because you can find random crap on Google doesn't mean that it's as serious as you're trying to make it out to be.

Get over it

For me personally, depending on what it decides to scan (why is it scanning my NAS?) my performance ranges from slightly below normal to absolutely unplayable. Entirely at random. And i've been noticing spikes in data use coinciding with spikes in ping since it was installed. It makes the game objectively worse without a single upside. Literally not one single positive thing comes from xigncode. gold sellers are still active, cheats of every kind are unhindered. The only thing i've been able to find where xigncode stopped anyone from doing something which might be considered shady was my friend who used to use AHK to tbag people now has to use something else instead.
Campaigner wrote: »
Sigh... I like TERA but my computer is too expensive to risk on this questionable third-party Korean big brother AI nonsense.

realistically, the only thing it is likely to do is corrupt/destroy your hard drives. it probably won't damage anything else!
D6JN9MNER4 wrote: »
Brave, cane, and noct should be reduced to 1 so that people can at least recoup their losses in a particular run. If you're running with randoms, you'll probably waste 2/3rds of a 30 minute consumable per run. Etching box should be half that price since it gives a random etching. Other than that, it's good.
i tend to agree with this, or maybe the 15/20 minute noc added for 1 token and 30 min noc for 2 or 3 still
Having the worse additive that expensive is probably a bit pointless after all the other additive events, I'd say it should be 3-4ish tokens at most since it's really not worth anything, unless that was the wrong additive added to the shop, in which case the master crafter secret additive should be ~10x the price of braveries. Smart dyad prices are roughly in line with what we could expect from events before the current team started giving them to us like candy, now they're worthless but after a couple years this will be a good price for them. I think feasts should probably be 2-3 for 1 token to make them worth buying at all.
Someone linked me this picture on discord... well, i edited it to hopefully comply with forum rules, but it seems like exactly what i was worried about is what's happening.. more people are turning to cheating in response to xigncode.
MTMCEZ2.png
The real potential exodus is not actually people moving away from TERA, what is actually happening as a result of xigncode3 is that people are moving away from unmodified tera to use "cheats" that actually.. run the game more smoothly, with less hassle, and less bugs.. I'm usually the first to complain about people cheating, but trying to play tera right now for me is like grinding my teeth between the massive random frame drops and enormous ping spikes, and it's incredibly tempting to join the hordes of my fellow players who have turned to 3rd party utilities to fix these problems this week. Of course, once you stop playing legit tera just to get away from xigncode3, it's a slippery slope of "Oh, well, this just helps run the game better. this one just fakes a lower ping. this one just makes it so stuns aren't as annoying. this one just makes it so backstab never fizzles because i missed lol." and suddenly you've got more people cheating than you did before the "anti-cheat" rootkit was forced down our throats
Is not better pay 3 or 4 progrmmers to make you a custom software?? Unknown for all, and then, not so easy to quit??
I think it will be even chaper than this XC.

For this kind of software, it's probably not because maintaining compatibility with various Windows and other software updates is a giant pain, and doing anything like this in a secure way is really hard. (And for something like anti-cheat software, as we see clearly, you're basically painting a giant target on your back.) There's already enough consternation about how reputable XIGNCODE is (partly because their English presence isn't very good, and they're not known to be effective for this game), but doing it "in-house" is an even higher risk. It's better to pass that risk onto another company who makes that their entire focus and mission (which, for all its flaws, this company does for a very large number of Korean games). At the end of the day, as far as reputation goes, being able to say they were part of the world's biggest videogame of 2017 is not insignificant for them and their reputation (nor for BHS, obviously), but clearly they need more work and focus to accomplish anything useful with TERA.

Your wording here is not quite right in my opinion. For instance you say "Is not known to work for this game" where you mean "is known not to work for this game" small difference, big meaning. Also, it's not really a good thing to say you're the body guard of a guy who has been repeatedly shot. XIGNCODE has proven to be ineffective and buggy on every single game it's been deployed on, so I don't really see how being deployed lots of places is a plus, since it has not worked in any of them.

The only reason for the former wording is because, as I've said before, whether this can be effective depends entirely on how much of a focus they make on fighting this battle. There are ways of implementing this software that, at least, make it much more of a giant pain in the [filtered] for those programming bypasses, and in other games have driven some of the bypasses further underground to delay being caught and stopped. But it really depends on the tenacity and investment of the developers to constantly fight. So far, clearly, BHS has not been that diligent in this matter on any front, such as...
The real solution to the problem of cheating in TERA is to improve the server-side code and make most of the [filtered] cheats people use not possible, as they wouldn't be in a properly coded game.
Well, yeah, obviously. Pretty much everyone has relayed this message to EME ad nauseum. There's no doubt whatsoever that this is really what BHS needs to do above anything else, and this software is at best a tangent in that process.

The way xigncode is built, it would not even detect the 2 most popular third party programs even with no bypass whatsoever. They're deploying a water pistol to fight a thunderstorm. It makes no sense, no matter how you want to spin it, which is why people are paranoid about this being a data-mining scam. They deployed a tool that does not have the capability to do what they claim it does which is easily disabled. As far as I can tell, the majority of legitimate players yesterday have started playing illegitimately today because of problems surrounding xigncode.. I just don't understand how any company could be so dense as to think this is a reasonable course of action.
Is not better pay 3 or 4 progrmmers to make you a custom software?? Unknown for all, and then, not so easy to quit??
I think it will be even chaper than this XC.

For this kind of software, it's probably not because maintaining compatibility with various Windows and other software updates is a giant pain, and doing anything like this in a secure way is really hard. (And for something like anti-cheat software, as we see clearly, you're basically painting a giant target on your back.) There's already enough consternation about how reputable XIGNCODE is (partly because their English presence isn't very good, and they're not known to be effective for this game), but doing it "in-house" is an even higher risk. It's better to pass that risk onto another company who makes that their entire focus and mission (which, for all its flaws, this company does for a very large number of Korean games). At the end of the day, as far as reputation goes, being able to say they were part of the world's biggest videogame of 2017 is not insignificant for them and their reputation (nor for BHS, obviously), but clearly they need more work and focus to accomplish anything useful with TERA.

Your wording here is not quite right in my opinion. For instance you say "Is not known to work for this game" where you mean "is known not to work for this game" small difference, big meaning. Also, it's not really a good thing to say you're the body guard of a guy who has been repeatedly shot. XIGNCODE has proven to be ineffective and buggy on every single game it's been deployed on, so I don't really see how being deployed lots of places is a plus, since it has not worked in any of them.

The real solution to the problem of cheating in TERA is to improve the server-side code and make most of the [filtered] cheats people use not possible, as they wouldn't be in a properly coded game.
voidy wrote: »
What exactly was wrong about the last thread, so we can hopefully avoid it in this one? Because to me it just looks like people were finally describing their firsthand issues with xign and afterwards it got locked. I don't see why they can't just warn/erase bad posts instead of locking an entire contained thread, but whatever. It was getting too big anyway.

I don't want to implicate anyone but nearly everyone I've talked to about this on discord has said they're using a bypass. Meanwhile, the people I know who are using it either had issues logging in earlier today or have really bad performance issues which may or may not be attributed to the rootkit they downloaded that constantly scans all their stuff. I hope EME didn't waste too much money on this garbage.

I'm guessing they locked it right before leaving for the day so they can have the excuse "we weren't in the office!" for all the rest of the posts, personally. But I've always been a cynic.
Zoknahal wrote: »
All i want here is TRANSPARENCY

1 First of all, why we weren't told of this change with enough time?
2 Why did we had to know it from a leak?
3 Why did EME only informed us about it after the leak and remained silent until the actual patch day?
4 What does xigncode actually gathers from our computers?
5 Where is this info stored? is it safe? can we expect our info to be secure and not be used for other purposes?
6 Why did EME decided to go along with xigncode even after the massive player respone against it and the fact that it DOES NOT do nothing at all against cheaters?
Numbered so I could answer more clearly, to the best of my knowledge
1) this sort of thing usually happens because eme doesn't know what bhs is putting in the next release. it's pretty standard!
2) it wasn't a leak, someone checked the official patch files (they're uploaded early for pre-downloading) and found xigncode in them
3) see 1.
4) It basically just creates a log file as it scans through trying to match programs with known cheats. Unfortunately, it does not know many cheats.
5) good questions!!!
6) because they're clueless, as they always have been and will be.
Could we also get a list of things that XIGNCODE interferes with, including but not limited to:

- key rebinders
- anti-virus
- other games being open at the same time

This would help us give our point to them succinctly and directly.

Please provide video evidence or screenshots if possible!
Had one bsod, xigncode is scanning drives that aren't even in use and waking up my mapped network drives. tera has more frame drops than usual and less stable ping.
Hi everyone,

I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to get you a response to the initial topic for this thread... which is... as I see it... why XIGNCODE. I get it. It sucks. But cheating sucks more. No cheating fix is perfect, but we felt like we had to do something about it, and Wellbia, who are a reputable company who have been working on solving this sort of issue for numerous games (including TERA in other regions) was the best partner that we could find. They and we aren’t spying on you. We aren’t trying to steal your data (in fact, you’ll have just seen our updated privacy terms that we’re ensuring XIGNCODE complies with as well). We’re just trying to ensure that all battlegrounds and epic quests take place on a figurative level field.

I think that makes for a playing experience that is more fun. So, I’m behind this change because it's to improve everyone's experience overall. Our CS team is ready and willing to help you sort out any problems caused by this change so reach out if you need to.

I’m going to close this thread and ask that if you want to have a productive conversation about the situation at hand, I and my teammates are happy to talk, but where this thread is going, I’m not allowing this to go any further.

I look forward to hearing what you have to say.
Alright, so you say that this has been implemented to stop cheaters.. but there is 0 evidence anywhere on the internet that it does that. It literally does nothing to combat cheating, as anyone who can login to tera despite the dearth of errors xigncode is causing will attest. Xigncode is an unsuccessful disk-heavy performance drain on an already sluggish game, and anyone with evidence to the contrary is welcome to post it.
they want me to get on discord? Which is not an EME product?
And they never respond when we @CobaltDragon (ok Cobalt does sometimes, thank you Cobalt.)
I try to get information posted in as many areas as possible, whether that be here in Forums, on our Socials, on Steam, or within Discord.

In this case, I posted it to Discord first, since that is where I was already talking with players, and by the time I was going to include the information on our Forums, I noticed Starsprite already had me covered with the quote.

I had stated it a while ago, but I am definitely more active in all of our EME Discord channels, but certainly do want to make the conscious effort to put any important information in all the visible locations our players check, as well as be able to respond to questions when pinged.

So.. have we just given up hope on the TERA website ever having information about TERA on it again?
HeyTeacher wrote: »
HeyTeacher wrote: »
okay, but like i said, if i do catch anyone using any sort of 3rd party tools ingame to abuse gameplay, i will immediately make a ticket to report them. i will never hesitate into doing that. so if i catch anyone using dps meter or tera proxies, i'll be sure to report them :)
Everyone who was using them yesterday is still using them today. Xigncode does not have the capability to detect either one, and definitely not to stop them, even if the people using them happened to not install the 3 second bypass for it.

if i have evidence from ingame from a certain player cheating/using cheats, then i can easily just report them by making a support ticket, that's if xigncode somehow manages in failing to detect the cheater. so remember, there's 2 ways. one from this anticheat and another from a self-made reported ticket.
I'm guessing you're not bothering to read the 38 pages of this thread, but let me sum it up for you: xigncode has never stopped a cheater on any game. It's not anti-cheat software, it's just a money making scheme wellbia sells people by lying to them. We have the same level of protection today that we had yesterday, but now we also have a program scanning our computer and sending the data it collects to.... hmm, nobody actually knows!
HeyTeacher wrote: »
okay, but like i said, if i do catch anyone using any sort of 3rd party tools ingame to abuse gameplay, i will immediately make a ticket to report them. i will never hesitate into doing that. so if i catch anyone using dps meter or tera proxies, i'll be sure to report them :)
Everyone who was using them yesterday is still using them today. Xigncode does not have the capability to detect either one, and definitely not to stop them, even if the people using them happened to not install the 3 second bypass for it.
HeyTeacher wrote: »
DIONI wrote: »
@HeyTeacher serious question: do you think xigncode will solve anything?

you see, people like you are not giving it a chance. do you think letting people use proxies will solve anything to help further and process through this game? does it make them a better player from using it and breaking gameplay? okay then

Ifyou will defend with a plastic sheild from a sniper how do you think it will work? So why we dont give it a chance i wonder...>.>

A plastic shield is a bad analogy, xigncode is more like defending from a sniper by standing in an open field and checking for muzzle flash.
LagunaZio wrote: »
So GPK mods and DPS meters are finished? :(

Legit players will probably get flagged for any gpk mods and need to verify/repair/revert to vanilla, dps meter has been immune to xigncode for quite a long time.
Xerses wrote: »
xigncode3 is not, by any measure, an effective piece of software. the only people it will stop from logging in to tera are legitimate players (false positives are common), and when those players fail to login, do you think they're going to contact support and wait 3 days to login after uninstalling unrelated software, or google a fix and start cheating so they can play in 5 minutes?

The problem with the "false positives are common" argument, in terms of convincing EME, is because they already use this now on all their other games and PUBG (where they provide the support). PUBG has millions of players, so whatever issues there are with this tool, they already know them by now. They are deciding to add this knowing what they're getting into, including from a support point of view.

Again, I do not agree with adding this software particularly because it seems to be entirely ineffective, but I still don't think they are anticipating a high level of customer technical problems compared to what they already went through.

I just don't really see an upside, even from eme's point of view.. the downside is that there are possible (let's be honest, likely) technical problems involved, added vulnerability to customers (xigncode is fairly easily subverted by other nefarious programs), it compounds the already mountainous pile of performance problems... The upside is that... uhm... well, you will probably have a harder time faking client-side gold that can't even be spent?

Tbh there's only one potential upside..no rmt/gold sellers spamming in Velika or Highwatch

there is a precisely 0% chance of this stopping/slowing gold selling spam.
xigncode3 is not, by any measure, an effective piece of software. the only people it will stop from logging in to tera are legitimate players (false positives are common), and when those players fail to login, do you think they're going to contact support and wait 3 days to login after uninstalling unrelated software, or google a fix and start cheating so they can play in 5 minutes?

The problem with the "false positives are common" argument, in terms of convincing EME, is because they already use this now on all their other games and PUBG (where they provide the support). PUBG has millions of players, so whatever issues there are with this tool, they already know them by now. They are deciding to add this knowing what they're getting into, including from a support point of view.

Again, I do not agree with adding this software particularly because it seems to be entirely ineffective, but I still don't think they are anticipating a high level of customer technical problems compared to what they already went through.

I just don't really see an upside, even from eme's point of view.. the downside is that there are possible (let's be honest, likely) technical problems involved, added vulnerability to customers (xigncode is fairly easily subverted by other nefarious programs), it compounds the already mountainous pile of performance problems... The upside is that... uhm... well, you will probably have a harder time faking client-side gold that can't even be spent?
xigncode3 is not, by any measure, an effective piece of software. the only people it will stop from logging in to tera are legitimate players (false positives are common), and when those players fail to login, do you think they're going to contact support and wait 3 days to login after uninstalling unrelated software, or google a fix and start cheating so they can play in 5 minutes?
Infinitee wrote: »
LegateTR wrote: »
EDIT#1: Thank you for all the responses, all my questions were thoroughly answered and I now feel a lot more comfortable letting XIGNCODE install on my PC. One last question I have is whether XIGNCODE is safe for SSDs, or if it will drastically reduce their lifespan?
pretty sure installing a tera patch would introduce far more wear on your drive than a system scan

Agreed. Not to mention the amount of files the game that are already being touched and accessed constantly when you play the game itself, or the amount of files just accessed by Windows already on a daily basis. A system scan is tiny in the grand scheme of the number of reads an SSD can support.

scanning and hashing a 50gb TERA install constantly (at minimum, every time TERA is launched) is a LOT more strain on an SSD than installing something once. Not to mention how horrific tera already is for disk read/writes, and how having a program scanning and hashing while running tera will slow that down even more. Hello grey blobs! Hello invisible boss AOE's and skipped animations! Yaaaay!
bravoart wrote: »
Yeah, no. Not installing any patch that includes a hard drive scanner. I don't cheat and I don't have anything to hide, but I simply can't trust third parties to be responsible with that kind of power.

We just went through the whole thing with Facebook violating privacy to the point that Europe changed laws completely, and kids were banned off of twitter - and we're being served a blatant invasion of privacy and questionably functioning anti-cheat software?

Nope. No thanks. Let me know when you change your mind. Taking my time and money elsewhere.

Just to clarify, it's not questionably functioning. There is no question that it does not function as an anti-cheat mechanism. There are already multiple workarounds and bypasses for the tera-specific version before the patch has even officially released. It has failed to prevent cheating in every game it's been deployed for, and the only people it inconveniences are legitimate users.
RKC wrote: »
You cannot stop those botters and hackers they will just go around what you put and we have to suffer for it

it's not even that hard to stop the people who are cheating, in fact eme has been emailed detailed instructions for doing so in the past. they're just not competent enough to implement it, and are going to a third party program that is not only ineffective but also harmful to users.
Christin wrote: »
DeusFurta wrote: »
You know what would be hilarious, if Wellbia actually paid EME to attach their software onto the game so Wellbia could sell our data xD
It's not worth the massive fines and legal cases against all parties, not to mention all the incredibly bad press for all the developers/publishers that use the XIGNCODE already (including BHS on PUBG, and tons of other developers/publishers). It'd completely ruin everything for all those involved, and whatever pennies they think they could make on data isn't worth that risk at all.

The only games I can find using this are based in Korea. Anyone know of any games using this based in the US? Wondering if it might even be illegal for a game to send data from US systems over to Korea like that. There must be a reason US publishers aren't flocking to Wellbia.

They're not flocking to it because it doesn't work. Wellbia is just flat out lying to people. No game has shown any success with xigncode reducing the number of cheaters. In tera's case it will probably increase the number of cheaters, since the performance hit on a game which is already really heavy on disk accesses is going to be immense, and cheating is the only solution en masse offers anyone to fix that.
Ellexem wrote: »
On the note of facts, given that Xigncode seems to be somewhat configurable, it would also be nice to know what limits are being put in place for us.

Will it block multiple clients? Multiple accounts on the same computer? (I don't particularly care about these, but they are likely important for some of the community.)

Will it block other games that also use it from running concurrently with Tera? (Aion, for instance, seemed to work fine for having multiple Aion clients but it could not work concurrently with BDO. Going by what Google dragged up for me.)

Will it just scan the Tera game folder or will it try to hash the entire computer? (BDO seemed to have it set to scan the entire computer, which amounts to a full scan with an anti-virus while you're playing the game, with all the performance hits that that entails. So even if it's just for an initial scan, with then only any big hits if there's any big changes on the computer, this has the potential to very badly color user perception if it's the entire system.)

Will we have to worry about the mere presence of certain tools on the computer causing false positives? (PCAP is the main thing that springs to mind right away, though I'm sure that there are others. I'd not be fond of being unable to use the computer I play Tera on for any network work at all, just because various meters and such seem to also use it, from the cursory reading I've done.)

these are all important questions and things eme should be transparent about, but i really doubt they even have a clue what they're adding to their client.
Performance-wise, it will affect different computers differently, especially on HDD computers it will significantly harm performance of everything while tera is running, including tera. On ssd-based machines it will most likely just shorten the life of your drive and increase cpu usage (only really a problem if your processor relies on turbo frequencies to run tera well, or if you don't have a quad core processor)
Generally it won't run while the game is not running, though it depends on implementation - it's possible it will run whenever the *launcher* is running.
Removing it is fairly straightforward, there are several guides online (as with any malware) on how to do it, but basically you delete the file, then open regedit, search for the few entries it adds, and delete those too.

@seandynamite Please, there's still time to stop this from happening. The only effect of this will be even more legitimate players turning to cheats or quitting, and TERA can't really afford either of those things to happen. The main cheat used on tera has *already* released a bypass for thursday's anti-cheat patch, so the only people who will even be impacted by this are legitimate players who will get significantly worse performance and damaged hard drives because of it.
TomRipley wrote: »
Let's cut them some slack, they are hopefully having a crisis session on how to handle this mess. While most of the playerbase likely won't notice the change, this topic sure has gotten the attention of the long playing core people of the game. Even EME will know that if you let the core rot, it will spread.
That does not seem to be in line with what I know about EME. And people will definitely notice the performance drop, as running this is basically identical to telling your anti-virus software to run a full system scan while playing tera - fps [filtered] DIES
T5EGCG7J5M wrote: »
Does this mean I can't use Shadow Play to record my game sessions anymore?

this is actually a good question.. i know certain anti-cheats falsely flag overlays because they technically hook the game process. shadowplay does have an overlay but i don't think it hooks anything as far as i know, so it should be fine. Discord/mumble overlay? who knows.
4) as a developer, i will experience frequent crashes and frustration due to this because of activities entirely unrelated to TERA

I am a developer and login to other games with XIGNCODE3 pretty much daily. Even when I have my dev environment, VMs, docker containers, VPNs, etc. etc. running, I haven't encountered any crashes. Maybe TERA will be different and will cause these problems; we'll see. If it does, I'll be first to complain.

Oh, well, in that case, installing a keylogger & malware on my personal computer for no reason is fine if it usually doesn't prevent me from using my computer for other things.
edit: this post was sarcastic and didn't add anything, so i'll add that i'm actually more concerned about the false positives - i use cheat engine and similar memory editors fairly frequently for debugging purposes, and it seems to hate those in particular, even if they aren't attached to the TERA process.
Goosey wrote: »
To even play this game now, you'd basically need a burner PC that just runs TERA and nothing else, because once you have this installed your PC, it will be compromised and will not be safe to do anything You won't be safe to read emails, log into any websites, nothing. Everything you do will be captured and logged, and any valuable information will be exploited against you.
Is there actually any substantiated evidence to support this claim? This software is used actively by other major Korean MMOs, including BDO and BnS, all EME's other games, and TERA in Korea and Japan. Is there any evidence that anyone's computers been compromised in this way? If there's any evidence of anything like this actually happening, all these companies need to know so they can sue the hell out of Wellbia for the liability they imposed.

I don't think proof of it happening is the point here - The point is that EME, a company who is fairly well known for being inept and lying to their customers both intentionally and unintentionally, has just asked every single TERA player to install a keylogger and file system scanner on their own computer, to send our data to a third party. Not only that, but all the evidence points to this malware not even working for it's intended function. So, basically EME is just asking us to send *everything* we do on our computers for 48 hours before playing tera to a third party for NO reason whatsoever. That's the problem people have with this change.

That's also not true, though. It's not a keylogger. It does not "send *everything* we do on our computers for 48 hours before playing tera to a third party" at all. It scans the files and hashes them to scan against known signatures, like how an anti-virus works. Yeah, even that is more invasive than I'd like, but it's not the same thing.

I'm not a fan of this software, and I do think it's pointless as long as it's completely ineffectual at its supposed function (I wouldn't have introduced it until I was sure it actually solved a problem that needed solving, if it were up to me), but the FUD about what it does is just so completely through the roof that I have no idea where people are getting it from. I don't think it's necessary to lie and exaggerate about what the software does to convince EME that it's a bad idea, because EME already knows these lies and exaggerations aren't true anyway, and are just FUD. It hurts the argument people are trying to make! I've no problem if an army of people come on to say they don't want to install it, they don't trust it, they don't think it'll work, on and on and on; there's plenty to choose from.

I've done more research on this, just in case. I've come to a few conclusions:
1) any program that *can* be a keylogger in certain circumstances, is a keylogger.
2) any program that does not benefit the user in any way and is installed without their express intent is malware (this aside from the fact that it actually negatively impacts users..)
3) the vast majority of flags from xingcode3 appear to be false positives, because the ease of bypassing it means nobody cheating actually gets flagged.
4) as a developer, i will experience frequent crashes and frustration due to this because of activities entirely unrelated to TERA
ovr wrote: »
I logged in for the first time in a month today and was greeted with a welcome message that pushed emp sales down my throat and multiple gold selling bots that completely filled my chat window in about 2 minutes. I love this game but I can't take it seriously any more. :(

don't worry, they'll also be shoving a keylogger down your throat in two days, which won't stop the bots but will lag your computer more ^.^
Goosey wrote: »
To even play this game now, you'd basically need a burner PC that just runs TERA and nothing else, because once you have this installed your PC, it will be compromised and will not be safe to do anything You won't be safe to read emails, log into any websites, nothing. Everything you do will be captured and logged, and any valuable information will be exploited against you.
Is there actually any substantiated evidence to support this claim? This software is used actively by other major Korean MMOs, including BDO and BnS, all EME's other games, and TERA in Korea and Japan. Is there any evidence that anyone's computers been compromised in this way? If there's any evidence of anything like this actually happening, all these companies need to know so they can sue the hell out of Wellbia for the liability they imposed.

I don't think proof of it happening is the point here - The point is that EME, a company who is fairly well known for being inept and lying to their customers both intentionally and unintentionally, has just asked every single TERA player to install a keylogger and file system scanner on their own computer, to send our data to a third party. Not only that, but all the evidence points to this malware not even working for it's intended function. So, basically EME is just asking us to send *everything* we do on our computers for 48 hours before playing tera to a third party for NO reason whatsoever. That's the problem people have with this change.
I think what will help is a set code that detects auto spamming of this nature, it isn't hard to implement

Won't work because they'll just change the auto-spamming slightly so that it works again. They have watchers to make sure their message is getting through.

This is one of my most-hated parts of all MMOs, honestly.

ooh, i have an idea to stop spam like this.. GM's who actually play tera and log in to servers more than once a month!
People's #1 complaint about tera is poor optimization, and from what I gather, this will make that problem worse while not actually improving tera in any way. Yes, this sounds in line with what I've come to expect from EME, what's all the hubbub about?
it's because limited releases make more money; if an item is out for a day and sells 1000 copies, or out for 100 days and sells 9 copies a day... that sort of thing. older items that don't sell much suddenly become "limited edition" and their value jumps up. then they can be re-released in short bursts at a future date for even MORE money.
This code is a lie.. I'm a baraka :(
If your ping is high, this will always happen occasionally, but to reduce the chances of it happening, try to ensure you have high/decent fps (frame drops make it happen more, in my experience), and aim your camera straight down during the animation.
I think this is Dyeable <word depending on stat it gives> silk intimates.
This usually means your launcher can't contact the EME servers, make sure you don't have an anti-virus or a firewall that's blocking your access, or contact support with your diagnostic from the client.
Ray676 wrote: »
This isn't even the first time lightitupdan has been sponsored. what the [filtered] enmasse. why do you sponsor these nobodies who are going to never play your game again unless you pay them?

be constructive, not offensive. insulting people never accomplished anything.
unless the requirements have been changed there are fewer total TERA viewers than the enmasse partner(ambassador?) program requires
I may be wrong about this, but I am currently under the impression that our Ambassador Program beta has been rebranded, and the eligibility requirements have been adjusted. If you need more specifics, the Form is there to fill out, and Tailypo can reach out and get a conversation started.

If this is true, it's definitely something you should advertise somewhere. I know there are dedicated streamers (i'm not one of them) out there who would be very interested in knowing that they may be eligible for the program now.
At the bottom of our first En Masse Community Spotlight article, there is a link to the En Masse Partner Form.
If the community members you've mentioned are interested, by all means, please share the Form with them, and we'll be happy to do what we can.

I remember people talking about this previously, unless the requirements have been changed there are fewer total TERA viewers than the enmasse partner(ambassador?) program requires - I think it would be a good step for the community if you stepped up to find some of the regular TERA streamers who love the game and help them out rather than bringing in people who are only doing it a few hours for the money. It doesn't necessarily need to be paying the current streamers, but something like giving them small stream codes or incentives for pvp tournaments, that sort of thing, would go a long way towards helping the community. Or if the goal is to have outside streamers help revitalize the community, a stream where people who DO regularly stream tera and intimately know the game partner with better-known streamers to do tutorials or help them through some gameplay would go a long way towards helping the new players that come from those streams get acclimated (since tera is notoriously a brick wall for most people initially learning)
Paying a few people who don't play/know tera at all to play it for a few hours isn't going to help the community. Maybe a stream where known (as known as they get) tera streamers help/teach a more famous streamer the game would be better, but what's going on here isn't the answer tera needs.
Uh.. i'm sure they've done the math, these loot boxes are going to be just as trap as all the others and emp will go back to normal rates in a day just like every other loot box. This is nothing new, just another loot box no one will buy after the first week.
Since the swap to zayo, my ping in-game has generally been in the 15-25 region, but for the last little bit it's usually 35-45 in game, or 150+ during certain hours (not even prime time..?) even though my ping to diag.enmasse.com stays at 15-16 at all times. They used to be pretty much identical, so i'm wondering if this is just an issue with MT or the network inside the data center or what..? has anyone else noticed a huge difference between diag.enmasse.com pings and in-game pings? (maybe specifically on mount tyrannus?)
Wouldn't it be fairly simple to change the 500-bam reward to include what you would have gotten from all the previous tiers before the change? (Edit: or better yet, just give one of everything instead of random junk?) So the event is still worth doing while lagging the server much less?

Unless the plan was to reduce lag by just.. making everyone go back to afk as normal
Nedylene wrote: »
Servers are back up but we need to verify a list of things before we can open up to the players. SOON (tm)!

are you guys doing anything to make future maintenances less... terrible? it's pretty clear that your process has some serious flaws, given that every single week we have oversights and delays and extended maintenances.

Don't complain like that. Too easy to write without really thinking. They are humans and not tech robots or npc. Sometimes things go as planned and sometimes not. They even realised about a problem, quite early, and they are doing what is necesary to solve so others, like you, don't complain even further. So, really, think before writing. They are doing their job and don't demand so much. It is not like switching the light in a room.

I don't see how asking a question is complaining. It's to the point where maintenance has been delayed every single week for.. I think two months? I'm asking if they're addressing that or if they're the sort of company which is okay with it. Not even mentioning this is an issue where literally one person testing it before releasing it should have spotted it beforehand.
I had this bug at the start of the elin gunner patch, with elins. The solution was to delete the file for those heads and then do a client repair. Doing a repair before deleting the file did not work.
Servers are back up but we need to verify a list of things before we can open up to the players. SOON (tm)!

are you guys doing anything to make future maintenances less... terrible? it's pretty clear that your process has some serious flaws, given that every single week we have oversights and delays and extended maintenances.
Personally I suspect that's actually a mistranslation and bhs just buffed priest+mystic damage by 20%. It's not uncommon for our patch notes to be quite wonky.
when you have nocs enabled, it sends an inventory update every time you use a skill, which means it uses a LOT more data, so if your internet is slow or your route to the server is long, it's going to complicate things a lot and cause a lot of weird problems.
This patch I've been favoring 3 old crit + 2 pumped with a mystic, or 3 old crit + 1 pumped + 1 carving with a priest. seems to work well. if you have full etchings and pop lamb/feasts a lot, 3 old power + 2 crit is probably better.
lol implying anyone at eme knows things more than a day in advance
Farewell, spacecats! You forgot to log out after the stream, but never worry. I'll do my best to hatch a new CM.
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CornishRex wrote: »
Honestly, vanguard rewards and the vanguard shop are both garbage anyway. They threw so many dragon scales at us in the past that if you don't have a dragon for even your alts by now, you're just not trying. That said, I'm pretty sure double vanguard rewards only applies to the items, not credits and gold, so it's possible rewards could be balanced by making the vanguard credits actually give us something useful.

As much as I agree with the fact that the argon event handed those out for free, newer players won't agree.
I just think it's plain stupid to completely rely on events to actually progress in certain aspects of the game. I'd like for eme to reaaaally rethink this decision hard.
Why do they always change things literally nobody complains about?
And yeah, this change won't affect me much personally but it will affect queue times and waiting in lfg.

To be honest, if a bit mean, I think en masse just does not have any employees who actually play tera. As a result, they can only respond to things if hundreds of people complain about, because they have no clue how the smaller issues (this IS a small issue, since it just gives us less dragon scales and nocs) are going to impact people. Personally I think if they get the vanguard shop correct, it will be fine. That said, they've completely screwed the pooch on every other reward and shop change so I don't really have much hope. Maybe as a community we should come up with a list of fair vanguard shop rewards assuming we have 1x vanguards instead of 2x.
ememe is late on a maintenance?
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Honestly, vanguard rewards and the vanguard shop are both garbage anyway. They threw so many dragon scales at us in the past that if you don't have a dragon for even your alts by now, you're just not trying. That said, I'm pretty sure double vanguard rewards only applies to the items, not credits and gold, so it's possible rewards could be balanced by making the vanguard credits actually give us something useful.
HLK76PFWXT wrote: »
on MT at least, the miner hats are 5k gold on broker.. if you really want one, 5k gold takes less than an hour to earn. the dyads and superior nocs seem to be dropping at least resonable amounts. it's not really an interesting event but at least it's something different than running 32 RG's every day

Can you explain what reasonable amounts really means? I have done quite some runs so far and all that i have seen was a single miner hat.

How many runs do we usually have to do to get a smart dyad?

I've done about 20 runs and gotten 6 dyads and 4 superior nocs, plus one miner hat drop. Seems fine to me for a dungeon that takes 10 minutes.
on MT at least, the miner hats are 5k gold on broker.. if you really want one, 5k gold takes less than an hour to earn. the dyads and superior nocs seem to be dropping at least resonable amounts. it's not really an interesting event but at least it's something different than running 32 RG's every day
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