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3GKXT597WA wrote: »
**********HERE ARE THE REAL WINNERS**********


Rigged as always, like the loading screen contest which introduced us some of the ugliest abomination known to art.
Or, the EME art department just lacks artsy brain cells.. one or the other.
So, to elaborate my sentiments, I decided to pull together and compared these so called "winners" with the ones that should've won over them any day.

EME, seriously, please do not hold a contest if you fail at judging it. Stop luring in people to participate just to waste their time.
Some of these people spent hours and hours creating something that's genuinely art, is pleasing to look at, and is worthy of being called the winner, yet you spoil it all by misjudging everything.
I am not disregarding other entries, absolutely not. They're good, but just nowhere as good when put in comparison. And of course, their efforts are commended.
EME, if you were really trying to appreciate the artists in the TERA community and what they had to offer by holding these contests, we could understand. However, what you have done and always been doing is nothing but denial to us, or anyone who does art.
Just look at KTERA, or JTERA community. There's no random questionable items on their loading screens or contest winner lists except art. You don't need to be them or even be like them, but at least try to keep up in the same direction.
So, PLEASE, hire someone who actually has an eye for this kind of thing before it hurts both sides even further!

Hahahahaha! I used to be the white knight and had to fight for my ground all the time against idiots and plebs when it comes to this kind of stuff, so It is quite funny and refreshing to see someone white knighting me and for me.
Although this brother stuck the point out pretty extremely, but he's absolutely right about this.

I got a couple honorable mentions before, but I stopped entering anyway. I saw no hope of a contest ever being held right, because EME is never consistent in judging art or doesn't even try to relate to art at all sometimes. The only time when we actually get to see a legitimate good piece of art being selected as the winner is when they realize they can't keep biasing/randomizing the entries anymore and finally look for a good one to mix in. But even then, the best among the best is still left out. Sad, truly.

Really though, thanks for standing up for us artists and aspiring artists who really appreciate a good piece of something that's "pleasing to look at".
But honestly, we really don't expect anything from EME in this department anymore, and those who really know about art will always be content with their own creation no matter what.
THE REAL WINNERS ARE HERE!

As usual, EME's contests are all rigged or simply off-the-chart biased with no professional backing. Rigged as EFF as always, like the loading screen contest which introduced us some of the ugliest abomination known to art.
Or, the EME art department just lacks artsy brain cells.. one of the other.
So, to elaborate my sentiments, I decided to put together and compare these so called "winners" with the ones that should've won over them any day.

Have your crack at it, guys. I believe in you and your view on art.

Scariest:
Won.. HELLO? Who's scared by this?
61eyoib.png
VS
Should've won, it's not edited, just look at the effects and scares this guy achieved in one go.
bvgZH5d.jpg

Funniest:
The BS that won
KeSAfkd.jpg
VS
Should've won
QkBZTlK.png

Most Dramatic:
Won... ??? just spin around on a reaper can win?
YjyiPee.jpg
VS
Should've Won, MAYBE? Dude probably spent hours taking a shot that perfectly lines up brooch effect + skill effect + camera angle after using a skill?
TERA_Screen_Shot_20171027_204005_1_2.png

Cutest:
Won... LOL just standstill shot of elin in combat, with random colorful costumes.
20171028012444_2.png
VS
Should've Won by a landslide, look at this fkn genius miracle.
ih7daq.png
or this, if you're opposed to male winning "Cutest", just look at that face. And the beauty of the entire shot.
TERA_Screen_Shot_20171023_194225.png

Halloweeny:
Don't even ask why this won...
22712171_1487035041389733_1571312921520537595_o.png?width=834&height=470
VS
The perfect popo shot we've all been waiting for.
RsJwv1j.jpg
I've never seen more halloween things in a shot than this, and well portioned on top of that.
TERA_Screen_Shot_20161011_051843.png

So, seriously, EME, don't hold a contest and lure all the people into wasting their time participating in your pointless joke if you fail at judging.
We would've understood if you were genuinely trying to appreciate the artists in the TERA community and what they have to offer by doing these events/contests, but what you've done and always been doing is nothing but denial to them, us, anyone who appreciates real art.
Just hire someone who actually has an eye for this kind of thing.. PLEASE!
Name: Sweet Marda
Server: Ascension Valley
Category: Most Dramatic
https://imgur.com/a/ktqtb
"All is gone! All candy gone!"
[img]file:///C:/Users/KieuMy%20PC/Desktop/DNME5S1W4AIl4H4.jpg[/img]
Name: Puuuuunng
Server: Ascension Valley
Category: Cutest
People read this before posting, especially the very first sentence.
Halrath wrote: »
Halloween is here and it’s time for some fun with screenshots! We want to see some great Halloween-themed screenshots, and that’s where you come in.

From Monday, October 23 to 11:59 p.m. PDT on Sunday, October 29, you can submit a single, perfect screenshot that best fits your Halloween spirit! Choose a category from the list below to compete in, but you only get one entry, so pick the one that works best for you!

Categories:

• Scariest
• Funniest
• Most Dramatic
• Cutest
• Most Halloweeny

(Halloweeny is totally a word.)

Have fun with this contest, but don’t forget to follow the rules. Entries that do not comply will be discounted.

The Rules

In order to participate, please comment in this thread with a screenshot. Your screenshot must adhere to the following rules in order to be eligible:

You must state your character's name, server, and the category you’ve chosen when submitting your image (do not add it as part of the image, please).

Only one player character in the screenshot. Background NPCs, monsters, and mounts are okay, but no one else.

Only one screenshot per player. No multiple entries.

Your character must be the focus of the shot and should be prominent. Great backgrounds are fine, but we want to see your best foot forward.

No game mods!

No photoshopping of any kind.

You can edit your post in this thread if you take a new screenshot, replacing the old one, but only before the deadline at 11:59 p.m. PDT on Sunday, October 29.
You may include a brief description to be considered with your screenshot, but keep it to one sentence.

There will be one winner per category, each receiving 3,000 EMP. Winners will be announced in this thread on Halloween! It will be here before you know it, so get your entries in as soon as possible!

And have a spooooky time!
"Please be gentle with me"
Name : Enika
Server : Mount Tyrannas
Category : Cutest
My boyfriend calls my character to a salad. I think my salad is cute :)
Name:Nyuffedli
Server:Tempest Reach
Category:Cutest
https://kephost.com/image/By1Q
My boyfriend calls my character to a salad. I think my salad is cute :)
Name:Nyuffedli
Server:Tempest Reach
Category:Cutest
https://kephost.com/image/By1Q
My boyfriend calls my character to a salad. I think it's cute my salad :)
Name:Nyuffedli
Server:Tempest Reach
Category:Cute
https://kephost.com/image/By1Q
Reborn To Destroy

Name: Magoclow
Server: Fey Forest
Category: Most Dramatic
Name: Sympythy
Server: Tempest Reach
Category: Most Dramatic....?

https://imgur.com/a/4QLdT
Name: TAMBAL
Server: Tempest Reach
Category: Scariest

https://imgur.com/a/essKi

jCJ5dVv.jpg
TERA_Screen_Shot_20170508_153237.png
https://ibb.co/igGgqm

"EVERY DAY IS HALLOWEEN, ISN´T IT? FOR SOME OF US"

Name: Myojin
Server: Tempest Reach
Category: Most Halloweeny
file:///C:/Users/Pepper%20Potts/Desktop/TERA_ScreenShot_20160824_053603.png

Character: Bugra
Server: Tempest Reach
Category: Cutest
"All this candy for me!"
Name: Lana.Cloud
Server: Celestial Hills
Category: Cutest
https://imgur.com/a/dvk0n
Smile like a Pumpkin's
Name: Nai.Blank
Server: Frey Forest
Category: Funniest
https://imgur.com/LBjp4Qp
"Smile like Pumpkin's"
Name: Nai.Blank
Server:Frey Forest
Category: Funniest
Name: Yumiko
Server: Fey Forest
Category:Most Dramatic

https://imgur.com/a/UA3v5
Name: Linh
Server: Celestial Hills
Category: Most Dramatic
Link: https://imgur.com/a/Jvn1w
<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/Jvn1w"><a href="//imgur.com/Jvn1w"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Big love! <3

https://imgur.com/rHZ8xuw

Name: Ciriminis
Server: Fey Forset
Categorie: Cutuest
"Who said all elins had to be cute?

Name: Xiophie
Server: Tempest Reach
Category: Dramatic

https://imgur.com/a/e6Cz8
Vindicting wrote: »
You can't code around the nature of the the internet.
Then explain why the other injector competing with SP fixed all of CC related PvP desync issues apparently months ago?

If they fixed all of them then perhaps this certain person should stop charging $200 for it and contribute their code for the good of the community, which was the original point of these projects, right?

You can't code entirely around physical location on a network. Even if you create the best skill prediction engine for a game ever, you're still going to have to deal with situations like:

Client A has 20ms. Client B has 200ms. Client A gets shot at by Client B, on Client A's screen, A didn't get hit by B. On client B, because of the delay, A did get hit. What does the server decide to do with the information when it gets both responses?

A bolt-on prediction method in a game that wasn't designed for it isn't going to resolve that to anyone's satisfaction.
No I actually talked to this person today on how he fixed it and he told me the ping issue is not important because location synchronisation can be corrected retrospectively.
Vindicting wrote: »
You can't code around the nature of the the internet.
Then explain why the other injector competing with SP fixed all of CC related PvP desync issues apparently months ago?

If they fixed all of them then perhaps this certain person should stop charging $200 for it and contribute their code for the good of the community, which was the original point of these projects, right?

You can't code entirely around physical location on a network. Even if you create the best skill prediction engine for a game ever, you're still going to have to deal with situations like:

Client A has 20ms. Client B has 200ms. Client A gets shot at by Client B, on Client A's screen, A didn't get hit by B. On client B, because of the delay, A did get hit. What does the server decide to do with the information when it gets both responses?

A bolt-on prediction method in a game that wasn't designed for it isn't going to resolve that to anyone's satisfaction.
LesbianVi wrote: »
Digivolve wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
So if you could run what was all the crying and the hate for? let me understand why all this madness and crying? rofl.

Because I want to play at 100% of my potential but can't because I was born nowhere near Chicago?
And now that there's a way to do that without hurting anyone else I'm an evil witch that deserves to burn, purely because EME and their supporters have no idea what they're talking about and vehemently refuse to inform themselves.

I said multiple times, others said, we are mostly talking about PVP, I posted some links to what others posted, they were much more closed or deleted, we all know the problems Tera has, no one is denying, heck I was the 1st one said they better address those issues, PVP wise things completely changes with proxy and injectors, if people weren't use them there, no one would complain, I don't call people cheaters here, we all know always a partial of community ruin things, and those which are using those tools on PVP and BGs ruined it for those which wants to do fine, as long PVP, player vs player get effected negatively with those tools, and people in BGs using them to get advantage, we can't really take the side of using those tools, it sucks, I know it, but again when it comes to PVP, it damages others.
The competing product of SP had working PvP CC stuff since months ago from what I read. If you think the PvP issue can't be fixed and is a problem intrinsic to proxy, then you're simply wrong.
Digivolve wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
So if you could run what was all the crying and the hate for? let me understand why all this madness and crying? rofl.

Because I want to play at 100% of my potential but can't because I was born nowhere near Chicago?
And now that there's a way to do that without hurting anyone else I'm an evil witch that deserves to burn, purely because EME and their supporters have no idea what they're talking about and vehemently refuse to inform themselves.

I said multiple times, others said, we are mostly talking about PVP, I posted some links to what others posted, they were much more closed or deleted, we all know the problems Tera has, no one is denying, heck I was the 1st one said they better address those issues, PVP wise things completely changes with proxy and injectors, if people weren't use them there, no one would complain, I don't call people cheaters here, we all know always a partial of community ruin things, and those which are using those tools on PVP and BGs ruined it for those which wants to do fine, as long PVP, player vs player get effected negatively with those tools, and people in BGs using them to get advantage, we can't really take the side of using those tools, it sucks, I know it, but again when it comes to PVP, it damages others.
LesbianVi wrote: »
So if you could run what was all the crying and the hate for? let me understand why all this madness and crying? rofl.

Because I want to play at 100% of my potential but can't because divines haven't blessed me by having me being born in Chicago?
You can't code around the nature of the the internet.
Then explain why the other injector competing with SP fixed all of CC related PvP desync issues apparently months ago?
LesbianVi wrote: »
gib wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
gib wrote: »
Vindicting wrote: »
gib wrote: »
yes. the "security" update that came out was nothing more than the removal of packet names. so opcodes have to be manually mapped. this is a major inconvenience for modules like skill prediction, seeing how they use so many packets, but it's still incredibly easy to make oneshot work. it literally takes 2 packets to abuse.
I saw Pinkie and Bern talk about heuristics and decompiler so hopefully that's just temporary. It would suck to see skill prediction break or become harder to maintain putting more strain on kind players who help others but do nothing against exploits. I already saw someone memeslashing again today.

yes, pinki has already sort of come up with an automated process for mapping the packets. skill prediction is pretty much working in NA and EU, but any update is just more work to map the packets again.

Skill prediction and of coarse enrage announcement are fine by you people? Changing the nature of the game? making it a like a Tab-target and skill prediction that even works for pvp?

I am not uninformed, it was proven.

you are most definitely uninformed.

the real nature of the game is proven by looking at ktera. no one in ktera has high ping or even 30+ ping. and then you look at na tera and people have from like 5-300 ping. and you think that's okay? skill prediction is not a bad thing. it just makes it so you can play the game as it was meant to be played.

you are idiotic. please stop talking before you research the topic.

LOL, skill prediction is OK? You understand what comes to you and you iframe it sooner in PVP it is OK? You wanna act the same way with 300 ping with someone with 100 ping and I am idiotic?

Grow up.

Grow up would you? You have no idea what Skill Prediction is, its not predicting what other people will use on their skill. Its meant to ensure that chains work without ping tax (Aka that irritating Debilitate - Spring Attack, or Reaper's Shadow Burst or Valkyrie's Shining Crescent). Even in PVP context, it only benefits in ensuring that higher ping players get to play with less ping tax, and thus more skill. You must get pwned that is why you are complaining so much. Git gud.

I hesitate injecting (hah) myself into this argument, but PVP is a completely different animal than PVE. PVP has more interaction with the server itself compared to PVE. With how much Tera trusts the game client to send the server accurate info, the more skills and players you add to the mix, the more things will get weird when you start messing with skill timings.

Like you ever see someone teleporting all over in battlegrounds? That's most likely a high-ping player using skill-prediction to PVP. They dodge things they shouldn't and desync like mad. I mean, it'd happen to some degree anyway with high-ping, but normally the client/server interaction would tell the game client to STOP, WAIT FOR ME TO REPLY! instead of OK GOGOGO YOU OBVIOUSLY DODGED THAT!

With all due respect, I would strongly recommend you to use skill predictor before trying to even argue your point. Desyncing is already a problem in tera even without skill prediction. Heck, I could easily do that without anything, just look at Lancer's Shield bash-Onslaught, literally teleport through the boss. The skill predictor on the contrary, aims to reduce desyncs, as opposed to what you mentioned, deliberate desyncs. What they are actually doing is abusing different exploits, not related completely.

I am familiar with how it works, but I have a feeling that whatever I say is going to be ignored for your argument that there's no downside to using SP. I never said desync wasn't a problem, just that SP can sometimes make it much worse depending on the circumstances of the user.
So if you could run what was all the crying and the hate for? let me understand why all this madness and crying? rofl.
kubitoid wrote: »
Anotsu wrote: »
Excuse me, you barely play the game, what do yo know?
lYVVqWd.jpg

Keep your pathetic posts to yourself, you know nothing.
this isnt very informative coz we cant see actual number of cleans per dg, right?

that person most likely hasn't done any of VS / MM which is like.. basically the actual dungeons of this game..
the biggest reason being that it's prbly a trap brawler xd.
Anotsu wrote: »
Excuse me, you barely play the game, what do yo know?
lYVVqWd.jpg

Keep your pathetic posts to yourself, you know nothing.
this isnt very informative coz we cant see actual number of cleans per dg, right?
LesbianVi wrote: »
Anotsu wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
Anotsu wrote: »
Vasy86le wrote: »
Im happy to hear Proxy stop working, and now some players cry and say, we don`t wanna play again without proxy.. Someone say, why to not ban ppl from chicago because they have low ping, guys, they have low ping becasue they are closer to server like us, 1 ppl from eu(like me), can`t have ping 30 on NA server because distance, so is imposible, but if i want 30 ping i can play on EU, but, i don`t like eu so i still play on NA even with 150-200 ping and is ok, not perfect but ok. So , stop cry and play the game, not all ppl need to have low ping, because not all ppl live in Chicago.

That's the most ridiculous comment I've seen in a while.
1. Proxy IS working, get your facts right, this "Security Patch" was nothing, and within a day it was already back and working on EU and then later on NA as well.
2.No, nobody wants to play a game and suffer, you are in the wrong here. A solution is available but it's being ignored, let them kill us we're just peasants and only highborn people deserve to live. No. We have the right to complain, do you even know the different between 30 ping and 200?
IT'S BIG. Why suffer when there's a solution right beside you? Ridiculous.
3. Since you don't even know anything about Proxy or what's going on with it, you have no right to insult those who complain about it, first get your facts right before you speak of others.

Enjoy your 200 ping, be the hero of the high ping players, such a man you are suffering this ping. :clap:

yeah being reasonable and honest is so wrong in NA Tera, thanks for EME to keep ppl like you stay in it and even bullshet others.

Excuse me, you barely play the game, what do yo know?
lYVVqWd.jpg

Keep your pathetic posts to yourself, you know nothing.

what would be your skilled dungeons without tools with 270 ms ping to 350 ms ping as Brawler? lol, posting that to prove I am right that you people would be the same as others without your tools, not being to run anything.

Also all the content is based on those dungeons? Also I am having my in game name and servers, that makes me again honest about how I play the game, you think that makes me look bad, you are wrong kiddo.

I know people with 300 ping that do VSHM no problem, I have 200 ping and I cleared hard content before.
It's not even that, you're not doing the core dungeons that Tera has to offer, you clear the easiest dungeons the game has to offer, I wouldn't even call it easy, these dungeons are a joke, if you're playing the game for that then it would be best to assume that you have no idea what you're talking about at all, you have no right to speak about any of this as you barely know anything about it.
LesbianVi wrote: »
Anotsu wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
Anotsu wrote: »
Vasy86le wrote: »
Im happy to hear Proxy stop working, and now some players cry and say, we don`t wanna play again without proxy.. Someone say, why to not ban ppl from chicago because they have low ping, guys, they have low ping becasue they are closer to server like us, 1 ppl from eu(like me), can`t have ping 30 on NA server because distance, so is imposible, but if i want 30 ping i can play on EU, but, i don`t like eu so i still play on NA even with 150-200 ping and is ok, not perfect but ok. So , stop cry and play the game, not all ppl need to have low ping, because not all ppl live in Chicago.

That's the most ridiculous comment I've seen in a while.
1. Proxy IS working, get your facts right, this "Security Patch" was nothing, and within a day it was already back and working on EU and then later on NA as well.
2.No, nobody wants to play a game and suffer, you are in the wrong here. A solution is available but it's being ignored, let them kill us we're just peasants and only highborn people deserve to live. No. We have the right to complain, do you even know the different between 30 ping and 200?
IT'S BIG. Why suffer when there's a solution right beside you? Ridiculous.
3. Since you don't even know anything about Proxy or what's going on with it, you have no right to insult those who complain about it, first get your facts right before you speak of others.

Enjoy your 200 ping, be the hero of the high ping players, such a man you are suffering this ping. :clap:

yeah being reasonable and honest is so wrong in NA Tera, thanks for EME to keep ppl like you stay in it and even bullshet others.

Excuse me, you barely play the game, what do yo know?
lYVVqWd.jpg

Keep your pathetic posts to yourself, you know nothing.

what would be your skilled dungeons without tools with 270 ms ping to 350 ms ping as Brawler? lol, posting that to prove I am right that you people would be the same as others without your tools, not being to run anything.

Also all the content is based on those dungeons? Also I am having my in game name and servers, that makes me again honest about how I play the game, you think that makes me look bad, you are wrong kiddo.

I am skilled in every dungeon since MCHM back 5 years ago playing at 300 ping. When proxy was introduced mid RMHM patch I was already skilled in RMHM. So yes, everyone can clear hardest content at 300 ping without those tools, stop making excuses for being so [filtered] bad.
Anotsu wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
Anotsu wrote: »
Vasy86le wrote: »
Im happy to hear Proxy stop working, and now some players cry and say, we don`t wanna play again without proxy.. Someone say, why to not ban ppl from chicago because they have low ping, guys, they have low ping becasue they are closer to server like us, 1 ppl from eu(like me), can`t have ping 30 on NA server because distance, so is imposible, but if i want 30 ping i can play on EU, but, i don`t like eu so i still play on NA even with 150-200 ping and is ok, not perfect but ok. So , stop cry and play the game, not all ppl need to have low ping, because not all ppl live in Chicago.

That's the most ridiculous comment I've seen in a while.
1. Proxy IS working, get your facts right, this "Security Patch" was nothing, and within a day it was already back and working on EU and then later on NA as well.
2.No, nobody wants to play a game and suffer, you are in the wrong here. A solution is available but it's being ignored, let them kill us we're just peasants and only highborn people deserve to live. No. We have the right to complain, do you even know the different between 30 ping and 200?
IT'S BIG. Why suffer when there's a solution right beside you? Ridiculous.
3. Since you don't even know anything about Proxy or what's going on with it, you have no right to insult those who complain about it, first get your facts right before you speak of others.

Enjoy your 200 ping, be the hero of the high ping players, such a man you are suffering this ping. :clap:

yeah being reasonable and honest is so wrong in NA Tera, thanks for EME to keep ppl like you stay in it and even bullshet others.

Excuse me, you barely play the game, what do yo know?
lYVVqWd.jpg

Keep your pathetic posts to yourself, you know nothing.

what would be your skilled dungeons without tools with 270 ms ping to 350 ms ping as Brawler? lol, posting that to prove I am right that you people would be the same as others without your tools, not being to run anything.

Also all the content is based on those dungeons? Also I am having my in game name and servers, that makes me again honest about how I play the game, you think that makes me look bad, you are wrong kiddo.
LesbianVi wrote: »
Anotsu wrote: »
Vasy86le wrote: »
Im happy to hear Proxy stop working, and now some players cry and say, we don`t wanna play again without proxy.. Someone say, why to not ban ppl from chicago because they have low ping, guys, they have low ping becasue they are closer to server like us, 1 ppl from eu(like me), can`t have ping 30 on NA server because distance, so is imposible, but if i want 30 ping i can play on EU, but, i don`t like eu so i still play on NA even with 150-200 ping and is ok, not perfect but ok. So , stop cry and play the game, not all ppl need to have low ping, because not all ppl live in Chicago.

That's the most ridiculous comment I've seen in a while.
1. Proxy IS working, get your facts right, this "Security Patch" was nothing, and within a day it was already back and working on EU and then later on NA as well.
2.No, nobody wants to play a game and suffer, you are in the wrong here. A solution is available but it's being ignored, let them kill us we're just peasants and only highborn people deserve to live. No. We have the right to complain, do you even know the different between 30 ping and 200?
IT'S BIG. Why suffer when there's a solution right beside you? Ridiculous.
3. Since you don't even know anything about Proxy or what's going on with it, you have no right to insult those who complain about it, first get your facts right before you speak of others.

Enjoy your 200 ping, be the hero of the high ping players, such a man you are suffering this ping. :clap:

yeah being reasonable and honest is so wrong in NA Tera, thanks for EME to keep ppl like you stay in it and even bullshet others.

Excuse me, you barely play the game, what do yo know?
lYVVqWd.jpg

Keep your pathetic posts to yourself, you know nothing.
Anotsu wrote: »
Vasy86le wrote: »
Im happy to hear Proxy stop working, and now some players cry and say, we don`t wanna play again without proxy.. Someone say, why to not ban ppl from chicago because they have low ping, guys, they have low ping becasue they are closer to server like us, 1 ppl from eu(like me), can`t have ping 30 on NA server because distance, so is imposible, but if i want 30 ping i can play on EU, but, i don`t like eu so i still play on NA even with 150-200 ping and is ok, not perfect but ok. So , stop cry and play the game, not all ppl need to have low ping, because not all ppl live in Chicago.

That's the most ridiculous comment I've seen in a while.
1. Proxy IS working, get your facts right, this "Security Patch" was nothing, and within a day it was already back and working on EU and then later on NA as well.
2.No, nobody wants to play a game and suffer, you are in the wrong here. A solution is available but it's being ignored, let them kill us we're just peasants and only highborn people deserve to live. No. We have the right to complain, do you even know the different between 30 ping and 200?
IT'S BIG. Why suffer when there's a solution right beside you? Ridiculous.
3. Since you don't even know anything about Proxy or what's going on with it, you have no right to insult those who complain about it, first get your facts right before you speak of others.

Enjoy your 200 ping, be the hero of the high ping players, such a man you are suffering this ping. :clap:

yeah being reasonable and honest is so wrong in NA Tera, thanks for EME to keep ppl like you stay in it and even bullshet others.
Vasy86le wrote: »
Im happy to hear Proxy stop working, and now some players cry and say, we don`t wanna play again without proxy.. Someone say, why to not ban ppl from chicago because they have low ping, guys, they have low ping becasue they are closer to server like us, 1 ppl from eu(like me), can`t have ping 30 on NA server because distance, so is imposible, but if i want 30 ping i can play on EU, but, i don`t like eu so i still play on NA even with 150-200 ping and is ok, not perfect but ok. So , stop cry and play the game, not all ppl need to have low ping, because not all ppl live in Chicago.

That's the most ridiculous comment I've seen in a while.
1. Proxy IS working, get your facts right, this "Security Patch" was nothing, and within a day it was already back and working on EU and then later on NA as well.
2.No, nobody wants to play a game and suffer, you are in the wrong here. A solution is available but it's being ignored, let them kill us we're just peasants and only highborn people deserve to live. No. We have the right to complain, do you even know the different between 30 ping and 200?
IT'S BIG. Why suffer when there's a solution right beside you? Ridiculous.
3. Since you don't even know anything about Proxy or what's going on with it, you have no right to insult those who complain about it, first get your facts right before you speak of others.

Enjoy your 200 ping, be the hero of the high ping players, such a man you are suffering this ping. :clap:


With all due respect, I would strongly recommend you to use skill predictor before trying to even argue your point. Desyncing is already a problem in tera even without skill prediction. Heck, I could easily do that without anything, just look at Lancer's Shield bash-Onslaught, literally teleport through the boss. The skill predictor on the contrary, aims to reduce desyncs, as opposed to what you mentioned, deliberate desyncs. What they are actually doing is abusing different exploits, not related completely.

To add to this guys point, when you desync with onslaught the evil cheating skill prediction puts you back into place instead of tping you 10m away from the boss and turning the boss. How nice it would be if the actual servers did that.
Teekz wrote: »
> With all due respect, I would strongly recommend you to use skill predictor before trying to even argue your point.

Lmaooo

Hi sir talking about injector on forums is not allowed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> @IMetherlence said:
> Strawberrypants wrote: »
>
> IMetherlence wrote: »
>
> LesbianVi wrote: »
>
> gib wrote: »
>
> LesbianVi wrote: »
>
> gib wrote: »
>
> Vindicting wrote: »
>
> gib wrote: »
>
> yes. the "security" update that came out was nothing more than the removal of packet names. so opcodes have to be manually mapped. this is a major inconvenience for modules like skill prediction, seeing how they use so many packets, but it's still incredibly easy to make oneshot work. it literally takes 2 packets to abuse.
>
>
>
> I saw Pinkie and Bern talk about heuristics and decompiler so hopefully that's just temporary. It would suck to see skill prediction break or become harder to maintain putting more strain on kind players who help others but do nothing against exploits. I already saw someone memeslashing again today.
>
>
>
>
> yes, pinki has already sort of come up with an automated process for mapping the packets. skill prediction is pretty much working in NA and EU, but any update is just more work to map the packets again.
>
>
>
>
> Skill prediction and of coarse enrage announcement are fine by you people? Changing the nature of the game? making it a like a Tab-target and skill prediction that even works for pvp?
>
> I am not uninformed, it was proven.
>
>
>
>
> you are most definitely uninformed.
>
> the real nature of the game is proven by looking at ktera. no one in ktera has high ping or even 30+ ping. and then you look at na tera and people have from like 5-300 ping. and you think that's okay? skill prediction is not a bad thing. it just makes it so you can play the game as it was meant to be played.
>
> you are idiotic. please stop talking before you research the topic.
>
>
>
>
> LOL, skill prediction is OK? You understand what comes to you and you iframe it sooner in PVP it is OK? You wanna act the same way with 300 ping with someone with 100 ping and I am idiotic?
>
> Grow up.
>
>
>
>
> Grow up would you? You have no idea what Skill Prediction is, its not predicting what other people will use on their skill. Its meant to ensure that chains work without ping tax (Aka that irritating Debilitate - Spring Attack, or Reaper's Shadow Burst or Valkyrie's Shining Crescent). Even in PVP context, it only benefits in ensuring that higher ping players get to play with less ping tax, and thus more skill. You must get pwned that is why you are complaining so much. Git gud.
>
>
>
>
> I hesitate injecting (hah) myself into this argument, but PVP is a completely different animal than PVE. PVP has more interaction with the server itself compared to PVE. With how much Tera trusts the game client to send the server accurate info, the more skills and players you add to the mix, the more things will get weird when you start messing with skill timings.
>
> Like you ever see someone teleporting all over in battlegrounds? That's most likely a high-ping player using skill-prediction to PVP. They dodge things they shouldn't and desync like mad. I mean, it'd happen to some degree anyway with high-ping, but normally the client/server interaction would tell the game client to STOP, WAIT FOR ME TO REPLY! instead of OK GOGOGO YOU OBVIOUSLY DODGED THAT!
>
>
>
>
> With all due respect, I would strongly recommend you to use skill predictor before trying to even argue your point.
LesbianVi wrote: »
gib wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
gib wrote: »
Vindicting wrote: »
gib wrote: »
yes. the "security" update that came out was nothing more than the removal of packet names. so opcodes have to be manually mapped. this is a major inconvenience for modules like skill prediction, seeing how they use so many packets, but it's still incredibly easy to make oneshot work. it literally takes 2 packets to abuse.
I saw Pinkie and Bern talk about heuristics and decompiler so hopefully that's just temporary. It would suck to see skill prediction break or become harder to maintain putting more strain on kind players who help others but do nothing against exploits. I already saw someone memeslashing again today.

yes, pinki has already sort of come up with an automated process for mapping the packets. skill prediction is pretty much working in NA and EU, but any update is just more work to map the packets again.

Skill prediction and of coarse enrage announcement are fine by you people? Changing the nature of the game? making it a like a Tab-target and skill prediction that even works for pvp?

I am not uninformed, it was proven.

you are most definitely uninformed.

the real nature of the game is proven by looking at ktera. no one in ktera has high ping or even 30+ ping. and then you look at na tera and people have from like 5-300 ping. and you think that's okay? skill prediction is not a bad thing. it just makes it so you can play the game as it was meant to be played.

you are idiotic. please stop talking before you research the topic.

LOL, skill prediction is OK? You understand what comes to you and you iframe it sooner in PVP it is OK? You wanna act the same way with 300 ping with someone with 100 ping and I am idiotic?

Grow up.

Grow up would you? You have no idea what Skill Prediction is, its not predicting what other people will use on their skill. Its meant to ensure that chains work without ping tax (Aka that irritating Debilitate - Spring Attack, or Reaper's Shadow Burst or Valkyrie's Shining Crescent). Even in PVP context, it only benefits in ensuring that higher ping players get to play with less ping tax, and thus more skill. You must get pwned that is why you are complaining so much. Git gud.

I hesitate injecting (hah) myself into this argument, but PVP is a completely different animal than PVE. PVP has more interaction with the server itself compared to PVE. With how much Tera trusts the game client to send the server accurate info, the more skills and players you add to the mix, the more things will get weird when you start messing with skill timings.

Like you ever see someone teleporting all over in battlegrounds? That's most likely a high-ping player using skill-prediction to PVP. They dodge things they shouldn't and desync like mad. I mean, it'd happen to some degree anyway with high-ping, but normally the client/server interaction would tell the game client to STOP, WAIT FOR ME TO REPLY! instead of OK GOGOGO YOU OBVIOUSLY DODGED THAT!

With all due respect, I would strongly recommend you to use skill predictor before trying to even argue your point. Desyncing is already a problem in tera even without skill prediction. Heck, I could easily do that without anything, just look at Lancer's Shield bash-Onslaught, literally teleport through the boss. The skill predictor on the contrary, aims to reduce desyncs, as opposed to what you mentioned, deliberate desyncs. What they are actually doing is abusing different exploits, not related completely.
LesbianVi wrote: »
gib wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
gib wrote: »
Vindicting wrote: »
gib wrote: »
yes. the "security" update that came out was nothing more than the removal of packet names. so opcodes have to be manually mapped. this is a major inconvenience for modules like skill prediction, seeing how they use so many packets, but it's still incredibly easy to make oneshot work. it literally takes 2 packets to abuse.
I saw Pinkie and Bern talk about heuristics and decompiler so hopefully that's just temporary. It would suck to see skill prediction break or become harder to maintain putting more strain on kind players who help others but do nothing against exploits. I already saw someone memeslashing again today.

yes, pinki has already sort of come up with an automated process for mapping the packets. skill prediction is pretty much working in NA and EU, but any update is just more work to map the packets again.

Skill prediction and of coarse enrage announcement are fine by you people? Changing the nature of the game? making it a like a Tab-target and skill prediction that even works for pvp?

I am not uninformed, it was proven.

you are most definitely uninformed.

the real nature of the game is proven by looking at ktera. no one in ktera has high ping or even 30+ ping. and then you look at na tera and people have from like 5-300 ping. and you think that's okay? skill prediction is not a bad thing. it just makes it so you can play the game as it was meant to be played.

you are idiotic. please stop talking before you research the topic.

LOL, skill prediction is OK? You understand what comes to you and you iframe it sooner in PVP it is OK? You wanna act the same way with 300 ping with someone with 100 ping and I am idiotic?

Grow up.

Grow up would you? You have no idea what Skill Prediction is, its not predicting what other people will use on their skill. Its meant to ensure that chains work without ping tax (Aka that irritating Debilitate - Spring Attack, or Reaper's Shadow Burst or Valkyrie's Shining Crescent). Even in PVP context, it only benefits in ensuring that higher ping players get to play with less ping tax, and thus more skill. You must get pwned that is why you are complaining so much. Git gud.

I hesitate injecting (hah) myself into this argument, but PVP is a completely different animal than PVE. PVP has more interaction with the server itself compared to PVE. With how much Tera trusts the game client to send the server accurate info, the more skills and players you add to the mix, the more things will get weird when you start messing with skill timings.

Like you ever see someone teleporting all over in battlegrounds? That's most likely a high-ping player using skill-prediction to PVP. They dodge things they shouldn't and desync like mad. I mean, it'd happen to some degree anyway with high-ping, but normally the client/server interaction would tell the game client to STOP, WAIT FOR ME TO REPLY! instead of OK GOGOGO YOU OBVIOUSLY DODGED THAT!
nothing is changed for me after this ''security update'' except for ping going back to 195-210ms instead of 155-165ms i had prior to patch. i guess system considered my ping too low and upped it a bit lol
Vasy86le wrote: »
not all ppl need to have low ping

Actually...we do.
Im happy to hear Proxy stop working, and now some players cry and say, we don`t wanna play again without proxy.. Someone say, why to not ban ppl from chicago because they have low ping, guys, they have low ping becasue they are closer to server like us, 1 ppl from eu(like me), can`t have ping 30 on NA server because distance, so is imposible, but if i want 30 ping i can play on EU, but, i don`t like eu so i still play on NA even with 150-200 ping and is ok, not perfect but ok. So , stop cry and play the game, not all ppl need to have low ping, because not all ppl live in Chicago.
LesbianVi wrote: »
gib wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
gib wrote: »
Vindicting wrote: »
gib wrote: »
yes. the "security" update that came out was nothing more than the removal of packet names. so opcodes have to be manually mapped. this is a major inconvenience for modules like skill prediction, seeing how they use so many packets, but it's still incredibly easy to make oneshot work. it literally takes 2 packets to abuse.
I saw Pinkie and Bern talk about heuristics and decompiler so hopefully that's just temporary. It would suck to see skill prediction break or become harder to maintain putting more strain on kind players who help others but do nothing against exploits. I already saw someone memeslashing again today.

yes, pinki has already sort of come up with an automated process for mapping the packets. skill prediction is pretty much working in NA and EU, but any update is just more work to map the packets again.

Skill prediction and of coarse enrage announcement are fine by you people? Changing the nature of the game? making it a like a Tab-target and skill prediction that even works for pvp?

I am not uninformed, it was proven.

you are most definitely uninformed.

the real nature of the game is proven by looking at ktera. no one in ktera has high ping or even 30+ ping. and then you look at na tera and people have from like 5-300 ping. and you think that's okay? skill prediction is not a bad thing. it just makes it so you can play the game as it was meant to be played.

you are idiotic. please stop talking before you research the topic.

LOL, skill prediction is OK? You understand what comes to you and you iframe it sooner in PVP it is OK? You wanna act the same way with 300 ping with someone with 100 ping and I am idiotic?

Grow up.

Grow up would you? You have no idea what Skill Prediction is, its not predicting what other people will use on their skill. Its meant to ensure that chains work without ping tax (Aka that irritating Debilitate - Spring Attack, or Reaper's Shadow Burst or Valkyrie's Shining Crescent). Even in PVP context, it only benefits in ensuring that higher ping players get to play with less ping tax, and thus more skill. You must get pwned that is why you are complaining so much. Git gud.
5LGL5T9J9A wrote: »
tisnotme wrote: »
5LGL5T9J9A wrote: »
Halrath wrote: »
During today's maintenance, we deployed an update to TERA that is intended to address the recent exploits and hacks that have been abused by some players to circumvent intended design and negatively impact the gameplay experience of other players. As a side-effect however, the update will also render many other third-party tools/mods unusable.

Given the recent surge in malicious use of third-party tools, we feel that deploy of this fix is necessary in order to preserve the integrity of the game and is in the best interest of the larger TERA community. We recognize that some add-ons/mods enhance players’ experience with the game, so this is not a decision we made lightly.

Our goal is to prevent the use of software that can damage the health of the game by giving players an unfair advantage or creating an uneven playing field. We’ll continue to evaluate the use of third-party programs/mods on a case-by-case basis, using player reports and the way players use these tools as a guide. Given the severity of recent exploits, it’s more important than ever for honest players to report to us when they witness damaging or suspicious behaviors in-game. The more information we get from players, the better we’re able to relay that information to the developers at Bluehole so they can explore new methods for preventing further abuse.


The TERA Team at En Masse

----
Guys since the maintenance i cant log in on the acc. Whenever i press the Play, nothing happens. what to do about this?

just asking but have you closed the launcher and reopened it so it patches
once in a while ill leave the launcher open dur in maint and when I go and click play it wont do anything till I close and run the update patch

Nothing sir. I didn't do anything. I reopen the launcher then get the update, but still nothing happens when i click Play.

Have you run the game repair? I highly recommend that you do, under the Tools section of the Launcher.
tisnotme wrote: »
5LGL5T9J9A wrote: »
Halrath wrote: »
During today's maintenance, we deployed an update to TERA that is intended to address the recent exploits and hacks that have been abused by some players to circumvent intended design and negatively impact the gameplay experience of other players. As a side-effect however, the update will also render many other third-party tools/mods unusable.

Given the recent surge in malicious use of third-party tools, we feel that deploy of this fix is necessary in order to preserve the integrity of the game and is in the best interest of the larger TERA community. We recognize that some add-ons/mods enhance players’ experience with the game, so this is not a decision we made lightly.

Our goal is to prevent the use of software that can damage the health of the game by giving players an unfair advantage or creating an uneven playing field. We’ll continue to evaluate the use of third-party programs/mods on a case-by-case basis, using player reports and the way players use these tools as a guide. Given the severity of recent exploits, it’s more important than ever for honest players to report to us when they witness damaging or suspicious behaviors in-game. The more information we get from players, the better we’re able to relay that information to the developers at Bluehole so they can explore new methods for preventing further abuse.


The TERA Team at En Masse

----
Guys since the maintenance i cant log in on the acc. Whenever i press the Play, nothing happens. what to do about this?

just asking but have you closed the launcher and reopened it so it patches
once in a while ill leave the launcher open dur in maint and when I go and click play it wont do anything till I close and run the update patch

Nothing sir. I didn't do anything. I reopen the launcher then get the update, but still nothing happens when i click Play.
Halrath wrote: »
The more information we get from players, the better we’re able to relay that information to the developers at Bluehole so they can explore new methods for preventing further abuse

Wait, some exploits are here since before TERA went F2P and they still not fixed with this update, wtf is BHS exploring? A new country?
5LGL5T9J9A wrote: »
Halrath wrote: »
During today's maintenance, we deployed an update to TERA that is intended to address the recent exploits and hacks that have been abused by some players to circumvent intended design and negatively impact the gameplay experience of other players. As a side-effect however, the update will also render many other third-party tools/mods unusable.

Given the recent surge in malicious use of third-party tools, we feel that deploy of this fix is necessary in order to preserve the integrity of the game and is in the best interest of the larger TERA community. We recognize that some add-ons/mods enhance players’ experience with the game, so this is not a decision we made lightly.

Our goal is to prevent the use of software that can damage the health of the game by giving players an unfair advantage or creating an uneven playing field. We’ll continue to evaluate the use of third-party programs/mods on a case-by-case basis, using player reports and the way players use these tools as a guide. Given the severity of recent exploits, it’s more important than ever for honest players to report to us when they witness damaging or suspicious behaviors in-game. The more information we get from players, the better we’re able to relay that information to the developers at Bluehole so they can explore new methods for preventing further abuse.


The TERA Team at En Masse

----
Guys since the maintenance i cant log in on the acc. Whenever i press the Play, nothing happens. what to do about this?

just asking but have you closed the launcher and reopened it so it patches
once in a while ill leave the launcher open dur in maint and when I go and click play it wont do anything till I close and run the update patch
Halrath wrote: »
During today's maintenance, we deployed an update to TERA that is intended to address the recent exploits and hacks that have been abused by some players to circumvent intended design and negatively impact the gameplay experience of other players. As a side-effect however, the update will also render many other third-party tools/mods unusable.

Given the recent surge in malicious use of third-party tools, we feel that deploy of this fix is necessary in order to preserve the integrity of the game and is in the best interest of the larger TERA community. We recognize that some add-ons/mods enhance players’ experience with the game, so this is not a decision we made lightly.

Our goal is to prevent the use of software that can damage the health of the game by giving players an unfair advantage or creating an uneven playing field. We’ll continue to evaluate the use of third-party programs/mods on a case-by-case basis, using player reports and the way players use these tools as a guide. Given the severity of recent exploits, it’s more important than ever for honest players to report to us when they witness damaging or suspicious behaviors in-game. The more information we get from players, the better we’re able to relay that information to the developers at Bluehole so they can explore new methods for preventing further abuse.


The TERA Team at En Masse

----
Guys since the maintenance i cant log in on the acc. Whenever i press the Play, nothing happens. what to do about this?
gib wrote: »
well to be quite fair, your "functioning product" is more akin to a prototype than the real deal. tera right now is barely functional if you play vanilla.

Tell me about it. Both my ping and FPS are deplorable, and I know for a fact that it has nothing to do with my rig or internet. I play other games too, heavier ones (spec wise), and they all work just fine, even in NA regions. Tera is the only game I play which is so poorly optimized to such an extent that it bothers me. I also play oldschool DOS games, some of which have pixels as big as thumbs. So how a game looks, doesn't bother me, as much as how it functions. So.. yeah.
gib wrote: »
well said. which is why we don't understand why eme and bhs are refusing to cooperate and are ignoring us at every turn. we all know that eme and bhs cant stand to lose the fraction of the playerbase (i'd almost confidently say about 30-50% of active players) because of this. so why are they still refusing to cooperate and implement it in their game? it's not hard. it wouldn't take long.

well i'll tell you why. their ego is too big. they don't want to admit that the problems that have been plaguing their game for years have been fixed by mere players. they won't admit defeat. they'd rather kill their game than have our help. and it sucks. but that's the way that it's been for years and that's the way it will be for as long as this game is around for.

I don`t know about the technicalities, though there has to be more to this then just ego, right? I mean, ego doesn't empty wallets. It can`t be that simple. No game is perfect, but to think that a company would act as if they were a pouty child refusing to go to the dentist, in a game which is obviously experiencing a decline in playerbase. Id like to think that there has to be more to this, some kind of miscommunication or legal issues standing in the way. Maybe things EME/BHS can`t share with us for they're own sake. We don`t know, and will probably never be told the entire story. All that I know is, that player improvements will continue, until people get official ones. And if you think about it, since the game is at the point where one can no longer exist without the other, is that not also a form of admitting defeat? if you were bound legally to act a cretin way like EME, you might have done the same. Maybe many of them are rooting in the shadows and doing what they can behind the scenes, while accepting that they will take the heat for things which are beyond they're control. Id like to think that nobody is dumb enough to wave a while flag, while everyone is still shooting at them.
gib wrote: »
i think you're free to choose what to concern yourself with, which by all means go ahead, but we've all thought that it was "a matter of time" before eme and bhs fixed their problems and guess where that's landed us. right back at the start. it's a vicious cycle and it won't stop until the game is truly gone.

they'd rather lose us for good than accept our help. in a sense, it is game over already.

I concern myself with other games as well, as should any displeased costumer should do. If Tera died today it would be unfortunate, but life goes on. I take into account that maybe everyone's struggles and efforts, would have been entirely in vain, and that eventually BHS will bury Tera and blame it on the community. That would be a [filtered] move but its a very real possibility, and I am not dismissing that at all. But since i`m still here, since you're still here too, the alternative solutions are still here, then I think that being optimistic is the only real option left. If you have a better suggestion, then by all means.
WTF???????????
TERA is dying?
Providence please!!!!

youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=rc7iPdHVQrQ
:) i like cakes!
Starkhoe wrote: »
Vindicting wrote: »
@Starkhoe
The problem I think is that you're not very knowledgeable about what had actually happened (given you don't know Noesis - the old Product Manager who got fired over the fiasco). What you're saying is basically all just speculation, we don't need speculations at this point because the facts had been in a long time ago... so there's not much to discuss.

I'm just angry that everything EME had done so far shows either gross negligence/stupidity or an actual contempt for the community. I want this game to get better, the proxy devs made it happen and so EME banned them.

As a costumer I do not need to be knowledgeable, I need a functioning product, and many of the things I said were not just mere speculation. Like proxies are still being used, so there's that. I get it though. Its a long read, so oversights are understandable. Not to mention, not being able to use links (its against the rules) to prove any points. Thats kind of a drag. Don`t worry you don`t have to reply to this.

well to be quite fair, your "functioning product" is more akin to a prototype than the real deal. tera right now is barely functional if you play vanilla.
I understand that you're upset. You have a right to be as a costumer, and I think that you're generally in the right. But I also think you should keep an open mind. But we both know that until all aspects of the game are properly optimized, EME and BHS cannot win the fight against software. For one, if they found a way to prevent people from using all types of third party software (meters & harmless modules included), they will wipe out they're largest playerbase. Meaning, not only can they not afford to do that, they are involuntarily relying on it to keep players in the game. Quite a predicament. Second, I think they do not legally own the software which creates the proxies and modules themselves. Thats outside they're jurisdiction (open source included). Meaning, that proxy devs and coders/scripters (whatever), will keep popping up again and again, and keep fighting for improving the game.

well said. which is why we don't understand why eme and bhs are refusing to cooperate and are ignoring us at every turn. we all know that eme and bhs cant stand to lose the fraction of the playerbase (i'd almost confidently say about 30-50% of active players) because of this.

so why are they still refusing to cooperate and implement it in their game? it's not hard. it wouldn't take long.

well i'll tell you why. their ego is too big. they don't want to admit that the problems that have been plaguing their game for years have been fixed by mere players. they won't admit defeat. they'd rather kill their game than have our help. and it sucks. but that's the way that it's been for years and that's the way it will be for as long as this game is around for.
In other words: there will continue to be injustices on both sides, but BHS/EME will never be free from this cycle, until they provide an official solution to the pressing matters, along with all around long needed optimizations. But as a costumer, the means and costs are not my concern. So you see, its not just entirely a matter of optimism and wishful thinking, I think its also a matter of time. For companies, the costumer always has to win. Because if they lose for good, its gameover.

i think you're free to choose what to concern yourself with, which by all means go ahead, but we've all thought that it was "a matter of time" before eme and bhs fixed their problems and guess where that's landed us. right back at the start. it's a vicious cycle and it won't stop until the game is truly gone.

they'd rather lose us for good than accept our help. in a sense, it is game over already.
Vindicting wrote: »
@Starkhoe
The problem I think is that you're not very knowledgeable about what had actually happened (given you don't know Noesis - the old Product Manager who got fired over the fiasco). What you're saying is basically all just speculation, we don't need speculations at this point because the facts had been in a long time ago... so there's not much to discuss.

I'm just angry that everything EME had done so far shows either gross negligence/stupidity or an actual contempt for the community. I want this game to get better, the proxy devs made it happen and so EME banned them.

As a costumer I do not need to be knowledgeable, I need a functioning product, and many of the things I said were not just mere speculation. Like proxies are still being used, so there's that. I get it though. Its a long read, so oversights are understandable. Not to mention, not being able to use links (its against the rules) to prove any points. Thats kind of a drag. Don`t worry you don`t have to reply to this.

I understand that you're upset. You have a right to be as a costumer, and I think that you're generally in the right. But I also think you should keep an open mind. You said facts, well, its a fact that EME/BHS can ban people of they're choosing, yeah. Its they're product. But we both know that until all aspects of the game are properly optimized, EME and BHS cannot win the fight against software. For one, if they found a way to prevent people from using all types of third party software (meters & harmless modules included), they will wipe out they're entire playerbase. Meaning, not only can they not afford to do that, they are involuntarily relying on it to keep players in the game. Second, I think they do not legally own the software which creates proxies and modules themselves. Thats outside they're jurisdiction. Meaning, that proxy devs and coders/scripters (whatever), will keep popping up again and again, and keep fighting for improving the game.

In other words: there will continue to be injustices on both sides, but BHS/EME will never be free from this cycle, until they provide an official solution to the pressing matters, along with all around long needed optimizations. But as a costumer, the means and costs are not my concern. So you see, its not just entirely a matter of optimism and wishful thinking, I think its also a matter of time. For companies, the costumer always has to win. Because if they lose for good, its gameover.
Margarethe wrote: »
The security update seems to have fixed the use of a few third party programs.
Still, memeslash is available, which was/is the main issue.
Mockery, should all start using memeslash?
Dps and ping would not matter then.
*Chuckle*

most of the important modules are up and working one day after the "security update."

all the modules will be working in no time at all. all the update did was obscure packet names so the opcodes have to be manually mapped. it's a major inconvenience at best to the proxy devs but it did nothing to stop memeslash as it's only 2 packet exploit.

but yeah maybe if we all memeslash then eme and bhs finally have to fix their terrible coding /s
tisnotme wrote: »
gib wrote: »
tisnotme wrote: »
I have real bad ping but still haven't used anything to "add to the games experience" as playing it the way I get it raw is also an experience in its self

well i can't make you try it out but i'll just say that using skill prediction at high ping is the best experience you can have other than physically moving your location. i don't see why anyone would want high ping over low ping. makes no sense to me. anyways,
and these fixes seemed to open other doors for more ongoing problems enlightening thous that hadn't thought before that "well what other opportunities are possible that I can use to better my experiences" so some have gone the route for abusing the situation

now if these devs you fondly talk about really did/do care they would of instead of producing something to better their game experience and then use it or let others know and/or use they them selves should have also extensively tested that it couldn't be mistreated
and you want the devs that started us on this journey to be the ones to fix it and only to be their way and don't like the way the actual people responsible are (yes again , trying to) clean up the mess
which the community is easily just as responsible for as EME/BHS as you put it for letting it get this far

because of how proxy is open source, it leaves a lot of vulnerabilities for other players to abuse it. which is bad. but making it closed source is not what the developers want either. it would create a rift between the versions of proxy and the developers who want it closed vs open source. and that's not what anyone wants. we have to trust in other players to not abuse the vulnerabilities of the software before we can find a way to permanently stop exploits from being abused with the proxy.
so then let me ask you what is the fix that you and your devs think we need then ?

add skill prediction officially so high ping players dont have to suffer ping tax.
add more options for optimization through hiding of players / animations / etc.
actually listen to the third party developers who know what they're talking about.
fix the exploits that are currently plaguing the community.
fix their terrible coding.
is it actually going the complete problem or open other doors ?
it will most definitely complete the problem. this whole problem has stemmed from EME's inability to listen and cooperate with knowledgeable people.
fixing the exploits literally has no downside.
is it going to be good for all or just the group that wants it fixed your way ?
if eme decides to cooperate and listen to the third party developers, literally every single player will benefit from it. ping tax won't exist anymore, so high ping players will rejoice. people won't have terrible FPS anymore. everyone rejoices. as long as eme talks to these developers we wont have the problems that are currently plaguing our community and our servers.
if it goes wrong how will you guys stand you to being responsible foe it not working instead of walking away with the attitude that well we tried but at the end of the day it wasn't our problem to fix in the first place we're not the publisher or developer , can you tic all these problems ?
the only way it can go wrong is if eme doesn't drop the ego and doesn't come in contact with these developers. as long as they can listen and fix the problems that we have outlined for them for years, everything will be fine.

it is our responsibility as players to fix the problems that eme and bhs have refused to for years. we want our player experience improved, and we're not just going to sit around and never have these problems fixed.


this was well answered to my post @gib thankyou

it still poses questions tho but helps me understand a little more and that's why I asked the questions
I still find it hard to swallow the pill "it is our responsibility as players to fix the problems" as its not ours to fix
like you don't go fix a hire car

nor do I buy in to "the only way it can go wrong is if eme doesn't drop the ego and doesn't come in contact with these developers. as long as they can listen and fix the problems that we have outlined for them for years, everything will be fine."
that's why I asked the question you responded that line too
and when you also state "fixing the exploits literally has no downside.

the way ive seen things , and the way i feel they evolve over the years id be one that wouldn't be sure about EME letting others tamper with it as id be worried if it goes worse and id be surprised if I'm not the only one
but at the same time don't want to see EME drag this on either as its already been allowed to get to a bad state

I'm also not one that thinks EME need to be here all the time telling us whats going on but this is on issue that they should be
I still find it hard to swallow the pill "it is our responsibility as players to fix the problems" as its not ours to fix
like you don't go fix a hire car

the way i see it, is that if the people responsible for fixing the car are unwilling or refuse to fix the car, then someone else has to fix the car or else you'll just have a non-functioning car forever. if we as players don't fix the problems that EME and BHS have refused to fix for years, then the game will be terrible forever.
nor do I buy in to "the only way it can go wrong is if eme doesn't drop the ego and doesn't come in contact with these developers. as long as they can listen and fix the problems that we have outlined for them for years, everything will be fine."
that's why I asked the question you responded that line too
and when you also state "fixing the exploits literally has no downside.

well, we can't do much by ourselves other than create the modules and have the proxy open-sourced to other players so they can do the same. we can't make eme implement these fixes or these modules or even implement the proxy. that's up to them. all i'm saying is that implementing the proxy is very easy and fixing the exploits is very easy and there are no downsides to both if it's implemented correctly. but time and time again has EME proven that they would rather keep their ego and refuse to cooperate with their very players than actually fix their problems.
the way ive seen things , and the way i feel they evolve over the years id be one that wouldn't be sure about EME letting others tamper with it as id be worried if it goes worse and id be surprised if I'm not the only one
but at the same time don't want to see EME drag this on either as its already been allowed to get to a bad state

I'm also not one that thinks EME need to be here all the time telling us whats going on but this is on issue that they should be

well, the state of the game right now is terrible as nearly everyone can tell. and that's the result of EME and BHS making stupid decisions. but we can't directly tell BHS to fix their problems. which is where EME comes in. we've told them time and time again what we want from BHS and every single time, EME goes "yeah okay we'll forward them to BHS." and NOTHING happens.

a transparent publisher is more beneficial to a community than an opaque one. i'd rather a publisher tell us exactly what is going on rather than only notify us when there's an issue. that way, we can question the publisher and understand every situation better rather than be left in the dark for the majority of their time.
Pixelator wrote: »
Vindicting wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
N3PF5NGPD6 wrote: »
Starkhoe wrote: »
I just want the game to be played as it was intended: without horrific pings taxes

How you dare!!! You should absolutely suffer for not having low ping and must always do subpar dps and have a subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players. Quoting a certain autist from previous page - "they wanna be the same with 300 ping with someone with 100 ms ping?"

So , no , we won't get rid of horrific ping taxes (at least in a official and legal way) as long as this community has these kind of players who believe its correct for high ping players to have subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players.

That is how internet works, how other games work, yes there are certain issues that we discussed, but you can't have things the same as someone with 100 ping as a 300 ms ping player. Is it really too hard for you kids to understand? You damage the integrity of the game to be the same as a player with 100 ping.

Nope, too spoiled to understand this fundamental of playing online game.
Actually no MMOs outside Korean games have this problem because Koreans are notoriously bad at netcode... You just need to stop playing P2W Korean trash MMOs.

Even more modern Korean MMOs like BDO do not have ping tax.
Then go play them.

You think they will last there, many of these players are from EU, they will have ping under 80 there but they come to NA. that can just explain what they are looking here and why there are here.

If they were other games they could run, they wouldn't waste crying here, would they?
Digivolve wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
Nope, too spoiled to understand this fundamental of playing online game.
.......
https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/comment/172165/#Comment_172165
When will your contradiction end?
https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/17314/please-make-that-sm-give-two-boxes-to-players/p3

an answer for you there. Hate me moar.
I find it so stupid of how some players are getting mad at this, I mean hacking and stuff is illegal anywhere I think at least in the USA, so the moral of this is don't hack and the game will be fine. :3
The security update seems to have fixed the use of a few third party programs.
Still, memeslash is available, which was/is the main issue.
Mockery, should all start using memeslash?
Dps and ping would not matter then.
*Chuckle*
AzuraRa wrote: »
N3PF5NGPD6 wrote: »
AzuraRa wrote: »
@PossiblyLost thank you for explaining!
Now I understand why my server is really almost dead most of time.
Cheaters... Everywhere >_<

Most of these 'cheaters' was legit players who using proxy for fps/ping issues , yes there some rotten apples who used memeslash and other serious exploits but BHS is literally punishining even legit honest players here. Sad thing is this update do nothing for memeslash , only destroy legit honest players.

As about the server and game being dead due to 'cheaters' , after this update MT HH raids are struggling to even fill up and have to lfg. Hope you understand now why game is 'dead' LOL

@N3PF5NGPD6
fps and ping issues? Really? I knew 'bout these people, you haven't opened America for me. Okay, I feel sorry for people loose that but hey...
I can't understand what are people here complaining about. Someone said "if you have more than 80ms ping - find another game". I'm laughting now. Really. I have 175-190ms ping and feeling comfortable with every class I play and any dungeon I run. Sometimes I have 5fps, but still it is possible to heal (main is a priest). For me it's just adding some flavour to the game.
Just stop being that soft nervous girls and all will be okay. No offence.
Maybe people just don't want to play if it is stopping them? Anyway, that's just my opinion.

Dude you are 'feeling' comfortable with 175-190ms because you have never experienced how does it feels like to play with low ping. I can bet you, any good low ping dps player in misery+12 will outdps equally skilled full have vm9+15 player. I know healers who cannot sleep lakan on vshm due to ping because its legit impossible to do it after a certain ping threshold because by the time you dodge his ring and lock onto him, the timeframe to sleep him is already over and you wipe the entire party. Thats how much ping matters in TERA.

It is not about just adding 'some' flavour to the game. High ping = trash dps , trash healing , trash gameplay experience. There is no arguing against this because this is a fact. You can laugh all you want but I can assure you not many people in the end-game community would like you in their raid or party simply because you have high ping. But hey if you like doing 50% less dps than a equally skilled low ping player or healing on a subpar level than a low ping healer then its your choice.
N3PF5NGPD6 wrote: »
AzuraRa wrote: »
@PossiblyLost thank you for explaining!
Now I understand why my server is really almost dead most of time.
Cheaters... Everywhere >_<

Most of these 'cheaters' was legit players who using proxy for fps/ping issues , yes there some rotten apples who used memeslash and other serious exploits but BHS is literally punishining even legit honest players here. Sad thing is this update do nothing for memeslash , only destroy legit honest players.

As about the server and game being dead due to 'cheaters' , after this update MT HH raids are struggling to even fill up and have to lfg. Hope you understand now why game is 'dead' LOL

@N3PF5NGPD6
fps and ping issues? Really? I knew 'bout them, you haven't opened America for me. Okay, I feel sorry for people loose that but hey...
I can't understand what are people here complaining about. Someone said "if you have more than 80ms ping - find another game". I'm laughting now. Really. I have 175-190ms ping and feeling comfortable with every class I play and any dungeon I run. Sometimes I have 5fps, but still it is possible to heal (main is a priest). For me it's just adding some flavour to the game.
Just stop being that soft nervous girls and all will be okay. No offence.
Maybe people just don't want to play if it is stopping them? Anyway, that's just my opinion.
on AV during 10-12am event one of the argon bosses has been 1shotted by someone from other raid, how they call it, ''memory smashed'' hehehe. ofc it was impossible to notice person responsible due to preset 0 and tons of grey blobs on screen lol
Vindicting wrote: »
TWMagimay wrote: »
tisnotme wrote: »
I still find it hard to swallow the pill "it is our responsibility as players to fix the problems" as its not ours to fix
like you don't go fix a hire car

It's more like: You moved into a new house. 3 days in, the toilet stops flushing. It's the landlord's responsibility to fix it. 3 years later, all he's done is hand you a bucket. Wouldn't that be the time you either buy "Plumbing for Dummies" or hire a plumber?
And when you fix the toilet the landlord evicts you for tampering with his property.

Good. At least now I can live in place with working plumbing.
@Starkhoe
The problem I think is that you're not very knowledgeable about what had actually happened (given you don't know Noesis - the old Product Manager who got fired over the fiasco). What you're saying is basically all just speculation, we don't need speculations at this point because the facts had been in a long time ago... so there's not much to discuss.

I'm just angry that everything EME had done so far shows either gross negligence/stupidity or an actual contempt for the community. I want this game to get better, the proxy devs made it happen and so EME banned them.
TWMagimay wrote: »
tisnotme wrote: »
I still find it hard to swallow the pill "it is our responsibility as players to fix the problems" as its not ours to fix
like you don't go fix a hire car

It's more like: You moved into a new house. 3 days in, the toilet stops flushing. It's the landlord's responsibility to fix it. 3 years later, all he's done is hand you a bucket. Wouldn't that be the time you either buy "Plumbing for Dummies" or hire a plumber?
And when you fix the toilet the landlord evicts you for tampering with his property.
tisnotme wrote: »
I still find it hard to swallow the pill "it is our responsibility as players to fix the problems" as its not ours to fix
like you don't go fix a hire car

It's more like: You moved into a new house. 3 days in, the toilet stops flushing. It's the landlord's responsibility to fix it. 3 years later, all he's done is hand you a bucket. Wouldn't that be the time you either buy "Plumbing for Dummies" or hire a plumber?
Vindicting wrote: »
Do you know why Noesis made that post so many months ago and now they're making huge posts about security while achieving nothing? Because they're stupid. Proxy was quite a niche project but instead of contacting the 3-4 devs actively involved they made a huge fuss publicly triggering a massive Streisand effect in the community. The proxy Discord grew by the thousands overnight thanks to Noesis's incompetence.

Forgive me but i`m afraid i`m not entirely sure who that person is. I`ll assume he is some sort of mod, being as that seems to fit the context (you are welcome to correct me if i`m wrong). Unfortunately, in most cases I don`t commemorate peoples names, unless I find them as being interesting. Generally most mods ive seen here (and in other games) seem either overly monotonic, "conveyors of obligatory information", or simply.. dull enforcement figures. So I don`t usually remember they're names. A classic costumer, I guess. So that`s that. Though most of what I said, are merely logical conclusions ive reached after reading up about whats going on. And what you are describing, is in fact what I was suggesting in the original context: that EME have involuntarily put the game at risk by posting information that perhaps should have been kept under wraps, causing this massive influx themselves, escalating the situation by being put in a position where they feel like they should address the said subject. A double edge sword, of sorts. You are essentially confirming my hypothesis.
Vindicting wrote: »
Let me ask you, if they really cared would they still keep their ego which is bigger than the sun and not even bother testing their "security update" build? When servers went down for maintenance EME and BHS became laughing stocks on Discord and the devs not only predicted memeslash would not be fixed they were even having a stab at each other about how many minutes they think it would take after patch to fix. And guess what? They were right on both counts, and memeslash took the first group like 10-20minutes to fix.

I`m not sure EME had much of a choice though. They are publishers, and too much public attention has been brought to this subject recently, they are probably obligated to respond in this way and posture aggressively. I don`t blame them for anything. As for BHS, the game devs themselves, I think that whats happening right now is the logical trajectory of these self manifested circumstances. They created they're own devils and plausible advocators, by not properly optimizing all features of this product themselves. I guess that might cost a pretty penny for them. But i`m just a costumer, thats not my problem. That being said, right now I believe that they are putting they're best effort into attempting to resolve a game breaking cheat. Id like to believe that because that`s what they are suppose to do. Weather this effort is truly successful or not, remains to be seen (imo).
Vindicting wrote: »
I am not benefiting from a [filtered] company ruining a game I love. For the past 5 years what had EME/BHS done for this game? The very players who wrote the original FPS guide which helped everyone I know be able to log on, and subsequently created scripts that changed our lives forever are villainized by this company who would not even bother fixing their own game properly.

You misunderstand. When I said "you benefit", I was suggesting that you are benefiting from the group efforts of many elements, as one. The game devs, EME, the proxy devs, and whatever other devs exist out there. Weather by protest or other means, many sides appear to be taking on the role of fixing or improving the game. Which is why I suggested to keep on waiting to see who crosses the finish line. I think that's better then becoming overly involved. You said so yourselves, that were (and that there stil are) casualties in this story, and that third party software still exist, regardless of anything. In other words: you are still practically benefiting. Its abit cold to look at it this way, yeah, discarding and casting out all emotional factors and the ones that were sacrificed long the way, for selfish benefits. But this is still a product, and I think that's how it should be treated as. Think about it - someone gets paid to keep things up and running - let this be on them. Thats all i`m saying really.
Vindicting wrote: »
All of us long term players agree that these devs improved the game and improved our experiences at a level EME will never even get close to. I wonder how it feels to be a gaming company with less impact than a few players, and now basically at mercy of those few players? It is very sad and embarrassing

I don't consider myself as a long term invested veteran, and I have no emotional attachment to this game, but I get what you're saying. This whole thing could, and should have been avoided. Id like to correct you on one aspect though. You are not at the mercy of anyone. You can choose how to think about this, and you can also choose what to do next. Before being a player, you are a costumer. Which is always the end result. I get that you're invested in the game, but overall, if you are not satisfied, and have lost all hope in things ever changing, then maybe you should play a different game. Nobody would blame you. Also, If you want, you are more then welcome to address me in private, and perhaps fill me in on more sides of this story. You seem to have alot to say, and I don`t mind listening. Just an idea. I mean, because of this Memeslash thing I don`t feel like logging in away. Might as well pass the time. Thinking positively is more effective then thinking negatively.
gib wrote: »
tisnotme wrote: »
I have real bad ping but still haven't used anything to "add to the games experience" as playing it the way I get it raw is also an experience in its self

well i can't make you try it out but i'll just say that using skill prediction at high ping is the best experience you can have other than physically moving your location. i don't see why anyone would want high ping over low ping. makes no sense to me. anyways,
and these fixes seemed to open other doors for more ongoing problems enlightening thous that hadn't thought before that "well what other opportunities are possible that I can use to better my experiences" so some have gone the route for abusing the situation

now if these devs you fondly talk about really did/do care they would of instead of producing something to better their game experience and then use it or let others know and/or use they them selves should have also extensively tested that it couldn't be mistreated
and you want the devs that started us on this journey to be the ones to fix it and only to be their way and don't like the way the actual people responsible are (yes again , trying to) clean up the mess
which the community is easily just as responsible for as EME/BHS as you put it for letting it get this far

because of how proxy is open source, it leaves a lot of vulnerabilities for other players to abuse it. which is bad. but making it closed source is not what the developers want either. it would create a rift between the versions of proxy and the developers who want it closed vs open source. and that's not what anyone wants. we have to trust in other players to not abuse the vulnerabilities of the software before we can find a way to permanently stop exploits from being abused with the proxy.
so then let me ask you what is the fix that you and your devs think we need then ?

add skill prediction officially so high ping players dont have to suffer ping tax.
add more options for optimization through hiding of players / animations / etc.
actually listen to the third party developers who know what they're talking about.
fix the exploits that are currently plaguing the community.
fix their terrible coding.
is it actually going the complete problem or open other doors ?
it will most definitely complete the problem. this whole problem has stemmed from EME's inability to listen and cooperate with knowledgeable people.
fixing the exploits literally has no downside.
is it going to be good for all or just the group that wants it fixed your way ?
if eme decides to cooperate and listen to the third party developers, literally every single player will benefit from it. ping tax won't exist anymore, so high ping players will rejoice. people won't have terrible FPS anymore. everyone rejoices. as long as eme talks to these developers we wont have the problems that are currently plaguing our community and our servers.
if it goes wrong how will you guys stand you to being responsible foe it not working instead of walking away with the attitude that well we tried but at the end of the day it wasn't our problem to fix in the first place we're not the publisher or developer , can you tic all these problems ?
the only way it can go wrong is if eme doesn't drop the ego and doesn't come in contact with these developers. as long as they can listen and fix the problems that we have outlined for them for years, everything will be fine.

it is our responsibility as players to fix the problems that eme and bhs have refused to for years. we want our player experience improved, and we're not just going to sit around and never have these problems fixed.


this was well answered to my post @gib thankyou

it still poses questions tho but helps me understand a little more and that's why I asked the questions
I still find it hard to swallow the pill "it is our responsibility as players to fix the problems" as its not ours to fix
like you don't go fix a hire car

nor do I buy in to "the only way it can go wrong is if eme doesn't drop the ego and doesn't come in contact with these developers. as long as they can listen and fix the problems that we have outlined for them for years, everything will be fine."
that's why I asked the question you responded that line too
and when you also state "fixing the exploits literally has no downside.

the way ive seen things , and the way i feel they evolve over the years id be one that wouldn't be sure about EME letting others tamper with it as id be worried if it goes worse and id be surprised if I'm not the only one
but at the same time don't want to see EME drag this on either as its already been allowed to get to a bad state

I'm also not one that thinks EME need to be here all the time telling us whats going on but this is on issue that they should be
@tisnotme
I'm sorry ive been reading this from the moment it opened
and I'm a long term player (roughly the same amount of time as you) and I can say not "All of us long term players agree" as I don't I'm out side the NA area but in their region area and I have real bad ping but still haven't used anything to "add to the games experience" as playing it the way I get it raw is also an experience in its self
Well maybe you're right I should have clarified. For a lot of veteran players the game is not about playing the game well, for example many are OK with being able to do mediocre DPS on mid tier dungeons and just roleplaying in Highwatch. It is common knowledge as far as I'm aware that every 100 to 200 ping difference is equivalent to the difference in DPS between full BiS+15 and Misery+12. You can't be anything better than mediocre if you have moderate to high ping playing normally. Most people are not OK with just being mediocre.

I think one of the problems with people holding your position is that you fail to realise that even if both sides are equally to be blamed for the mess, only the proxy dev side is willing to solve the problem. EME had proven to be unwilling to communicate and had time and time again proven they are incompetent, while the proxy devs seem to have time and time again proven they know more about the game and can basically do whatever they want.

You can continue to blame proxy devs for everything, but then nothing will be solved, because the side that refuses to solve the problem is EME. And do you think players are just going to drop proxy and wait for EME to fix the game? No, we've done that for 5 years already.
tisnotme wrote: »
I have real bad ping but still haven't used anything to "add to the games experience" as playing it the way I get it raw is also an experience in its self

well i can't make you try it out but i'll just say that using skill prediction at high ping is the best experience you can have other than physically moving your location. i don't see why anyone would want high ping over low ping. makes no sense to me. anyways,
and these fixes seemed to open other doors for more ongoing problems enlightening thous that hadn't thought before that "well what other opportunities are possible that I can use to better my experiences" so some have gone the route for abusing the situation

now if these devs you fondly talk about really did/do care they would of instead of producing something to better their game experience and then use it or let others know and/or use they them selves should have also extensively tested that it couldn't be mistreated
and you want the devs that started us on this journey to be the ones to fix it and only to be their way and don't like the way the actual people responsible are (yes again , trying to) clean up the mess
which the community is easily just as responsible for as EME/BHS as you put it for letting it get this far

because of how proxy is open source, it leaves a lot of vulnerabilities for other players to abuse it. which is bad. but making it closed source is not what the developers want either. it would create a rift between the versions of proxy and the developers who want it closed vs open source. and that's not what anyone wants. we have to trust in other players to not abuse the vulnerabilities of the software before we can find a way to permanently stop exploits from being abused with the proxy.
so then let me ask you what is the fix that you and your devs think we need then ?

add skill prediction officially so high ping players dont have to suffer ping tax.
add more options for optimization through hiding of players / animations / etc.
actually listen to the third party developers who know what they're talking about.
fix the exploits that are currently plaguing the community.
fix their terrible coding.
is it actually going the complete problem or open other doors ?
it will most definitely complete the problem. this whole problem has stemmed from EME's inability to listen and cooperate with knowledgeable people.
fixing the exploits literally has no downside.
is it going to be good for all or just the group that wants it fixed your way ?
if eme decides to cooperate and listen to the third party developers, literally every single player will benefit from it. ping tax won't exist anymore, so high ping players will rejoice. people won't have terrible FPS anymore. everyone rejoices. as long as eme talks to these developers we wont have the problems that are currently plaguing our community and our servers.
if it goes wrong how will you guys stand you to being responsible foe it not working instead of walking away with the attitude that well we tried but at the end of the day it wasn't our problem to fix in the first place we're not the publisher or developer , can you tic all these problems ?
the only way it can go wrong is if eme doesn't drop the ego and doesn't come in contact with these developers. as long as they can listen and fix the problems that we have outlined for them for years, everything will be fine.

it is our responsibility as players to fix the problems that eme and bhs have refused to for years. we want our player experience improved, and we're not just going to sit around and never have these problems fixed.


Vindicting wrote: »
All of us long term players agree that these devs improved the game and improved our experiences at a level EME will never even get close to. I wonder how it feels to be a gaming company with less impact than a few players, and now basically at mercy of those few players? It is very sad and embarrassing.

I'm sorry ive been reading this from the moment it opened
and I'm a long term player (roughly the same amount of time as you) and I can say not "All of us long term players agree" as I don't I'm out side the NA area but in their region area and I have real bad ping but still haven't used anything to "add to the games experience" as playing it the way I get it raw is also an experience in its self

as far as I'm concerned what was done to , well fix it for you guys , basically was the start of this , with a little "fix" here and a little "fix" there and at the end of the day it wasn't yours to fix
it may not have been 100% and it may not have been right for all but fixing it for some doesn't mean its fixing for all , and these fixes seemed to open other doors for more ongoing problems enlightening thous that hadn't thought before that "well what other opportunities are possible that I can use to better my experiences" so some have gone the route for abusing the situation

now if these devs you fondly talk about really did/do care they would of instead of producing something to better their game experience and then use it or let others know and/or use they them selves should have also extensively tested that it couldn't be mistreated
and you want the devs that started us on this journey to be the ones to fix it and only to be their way and don't like the way the actual people responsible are (yes again , trying to) clean up the mess
which the community is easily just as responsible for as EME/BHS as you put it for letting it get this far

so then let me ask you what is the fix that you and your devs think we need then ?
is it actually going the complete problem or open other doors ?
is it going to be good for all or just the group that wants it fixed your way ?
if it goes wrong how will you guys stand you to being responsible foe it not working instead of walking away with the attitude that well we tried but at the end of the day it wasn't our problem to fix in the first place we're not the publisher or developer , can you tic all these problems ?

I'm not usually a poster let alone on to post large posts so sorry if tl;dr
@Starkhoe

I appreciate you trying to see things from a more positive perspective, however EME did most of those things due to stupidity.
For one, EME are in fact showing you that they do care about these things, even at a risk to them. Why risk? think about it, when you go on and publish information about stuff like hacks and exploits, you are infact pointing people at particular directions.
Do you know why Noesis made that post so many months ago and now they're making huge posts about security while achieving nothing? Because they're stupid. Proxy was quite a niche project but instead of contacting the 3-4 devs actively involved they made a huge fuss publicly triggering a massive Streisand effect in the community. The proxy Discord grew by the thousands overnight thanks to Noesis's incompetence.

Let me ask you, if they really cared would they still keep their ego which is bigger than the sun and not even bother testing their "security update" build? When servers went down for maintenance EME and BHS became laughing stocks on Discord and the devs not only predicted memeslash would not be fixed they were even having a stab at each other about how many minutes they think it would take after patch to fix. And guess what? They were right on both counts, and memeslash took the first group like 10-20minutes to fix.
And I for one only care about results and my own interests as a costumer. And I hope others feel the same. Be a bystander. Wait this out. Let the fighters fight among themselves. Because you are the one that will benefit from either result.
I am not benefiting from a [filtered] company ruining a game I love. For the past 5 years what had EME/BHS done for this game? The very players who wrote the original FPS guide which helped everyone I know be able to log on, and subsequently created scripts that changed our lives forever are villainized by this company who would not even bother fixing their own game properly.

All of us long term players agree that these devs improved the game and improved our experiences at a level EME will never even get close to. I wonder how it feels to be a gaming company with less impact than a few players, and now basically at mercy of those few players? It is very sad and embarrassing.
Vindicting wrote: »
I have been losing interest in Tera recently and if this embarrassing situation isn't amended by EME quickly, I guess this is the nail in the coffin. Probably not just for me either.

Perhaps I might offer a different prospective. A part from things ive mentioned before (which you are welcome to check out), you can also view these current predicaments in a different light. One which works in you're favor.

For one, EME are in fact showing you that they do care about these things, even at a risk to them. Why risk? think about it, when you go on and publish information about stuff like hacks and exploits, you are infact pointing people at particular directions. That move alone can greatly increases the number of users which were previously unaware of what exactly all the hype is about. How many new players do you suppose have read up on these recent issues - because - they are being raised - and have taken liberty to apply such fixes or hacks for themselves. Second, by posting and protesting about these things consistently, they are unwillingly suggesting how easy it is it for someone to actually hack or use third party software. Further more, if you think about it, people that use the hardcore stuff (hacks, or whatever) already have everything they could ever want in the game. Meaning, its likely that many of the people that post hacking videos frequently, are not trying to break the game for everyone. But rather, that they are making a protest about issues and exploits in game. Maybe its they're way fo saying: "Look at all these issues, can you please fix them?". One could argue about methods, but nobody would argue about practical results. Maybe thats what many of them are going for, pushing the game devs to reevaluate (or improve) issues which they feel are not being taken seriously enough. This isn't black and white, whats "wrong" and whats "right" can be widely interpreted.

And I for one only care about results and my own interests. And I hope others feel the same. I say, say your concerns, but be a bystander. Wait this out. Let the fighters fight among themselves. Because you are the one that will benefit from either result. Weather it be through peacefully means such as causing fluid communications and more awareness over existing issues, or weather it be by watching everything burn to the ground and seeing the community hack the game to death, the only person that will benefit from changes, will be you. Think of everything that's happening, as if it were a TV show, you win automatically just by being there.
LesbianVi wrote: »
Nope, too spoiled to understand this fundamental of playing online game.
.......
https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/comment/172165/#Comment_172165
When will your contradiction end?
hey im new and i am not able to enter any servers. is the maintenance still going?
Pixelator wrote: »
Vindicting wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
N3PF5NGPD6 wrote: »
Starkhoe wrote: »
I just want the game to be played as it was intended: without horrific pings taxes

How you dare!!! You should absolutely suffer for not having low ping and must always do subpar dps and have a subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players. Quoting a certain autist from previous page - "they wanna be the same with 300 ping with someone with 100 ms ping?"

So , no , we won't get rid of horrific ping taxes (at least in a official and legal way) as long as this community has these kind of players who believe its correct for high ping players to have subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players.

That is how internet works, how other games work, yes there are certain issues that we discussed, but you can't have things the same as someone with 100 ping as a 300 ms ping player. Is it really too hard for you kids to understand? You damage the integrity of the game to be the same as a player with 100 ping.

Nope, too spoiled to understand this fundamental of playing online game.
Actually no MMOs outside Korean games have this problem because Koreans are notoriously bad at netcode... You just need to stop playing P2W Korean trash MMOs.

Even more modern Korean MMOs like BDO do not have ping tax.
Then go play them.
I have been losing interest in Tera recently and if this embarrassing situation isn't amended by EME quickly, I guess this is the nail in the coffin. Probably not just for me either.
Vindicting wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
N3PF5NGPD6 wrote: »
Starkhoe wrote: »
I just want the game to be played as it was intended: without horrific pings taxes

How you dare!!! You should absolutely suffer for not having low ping and must always do subpar dps and have a subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players. Quoting a certain autist from previous page - "they wanna be the same with 300 ping with someone with 100 ms ping?"

So , no , we won't get rid of horrific ping taxes (at least in a official and legal way) as long as this community has these kind of players who believe its correct for high ping players to have subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players.

That is how internet works, how other games work, yes there are certain issues that we discussed, but you can't have things the same as someone with 100 ping as a 300 ms ping player. Is it really too hard for you kids to understand? You damage the integrity of the game to be the same as a player with 100 ping.

Nope, too spoiled to understand this fundamental of playing online game.
Actually no MMOs outside Korean games have this problem because Koreans are notoriously bad at netcode... You just need to stop playing P2W Korean trash MMOs.

Even more modern Korean MMOs like BDO do not have ping tax.
Then go play them.
N3PF5NGPD6 wrote: »
How you dare!!! You should absolutely suffer for not having low ping and must always do subpar dps and have a subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players. Quoting a certain autist from previous page - "they wanna be the same with 300 ping with someone with 100 ms ping?"

I find it difficult to hold people to they're words, if they appear to suffer from severe [filtered]. I would prefer to offer my condolences, along with handing over a cherry flavored lollipop. That way everybody wins. Including the dentist.
N3PF5NGPD6 wrote: »
So , no , we won't get rid of horrific ping taxes (at least in a official and legal way) as long as this community has these kind of players who believe its correct for high ping players to have subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players.

You misunderstand. I am aware that there will not be a change anytime soon, and I do not hold the community responsible for technicalities which are beyond they're control. I won`t even blame the toxic and stupid ones, because they are merely users of a platform that was given to them. You can ignore those which you feel are beneath you. Though all I can do is hope that one day these issues will be resolved, as it have been done in many other games.
LesbianVi wrote: »
N3PF5NGPD6 wrote: »
Starkhoe wrote: »
I just want the game to be played as it was intended: without horrific pings taxes

How you dare!!! You should absolutely suffer for not having low ping and must always do subpar dps and have a subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players. Quoting a certain autist from previous page - "they wanna be the same with 300 ping with someone with 100 ms ping?"

So , no , we won't get rid of horrific ping taxes (at least in a official and legal way) as long as this community has these kind of players who believe its correct for high ping players to have subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players.

That is how internet works, how other games work, yes there are certain issues that we discussed, but you can't have things the same as someone with 100 ping as a 300 ms ping player. Is it really too hard for you kids to understand? You damage the integrity of the game to be the same as a player with 100 ping.

Nope, too spoiled to understand this fundamental of playing online game.
Actually no MMOs outside Korean games have this problem because Koreans are notoriously bad at netcode... You just need to stop playing P2W Korean trash MMOs.
N3PF5NGPD6 wrote: »
Starkhoe wrote: »
I just want the game to be played as it was intended: without horrific pings taxes

How you dare!!! You should absolutely suffer for not having low ping and must always do subpar dps and have a subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players. Quoting a certain autist from previous page - "they wanna be the same with 300 ping with someone with 100 ms ping?"

So , no , we won't get rid of horrific ping taxes (at least in a official and legal way) as long as this community has these kind of players who believe its correct for high ping players to have subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players.

That is how internet works, how other games work, yes there are certain issues that we discussed, but you can't have things the same as someone with 100 ping as a 300 ms ping player. Is it really too hard for you kids to understand? You damage the integrity of the game to be the same as a player with 100 ping.

Nope, too spoiled to understand this fundamental of playing online game.
Starkhoe wrote: »
I just want the game to be played as it was intended: without horrific pings taxes

How you dare!!! You should absolutely suffer for not having low ping and must always do subpar dps and have a subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players. Quoting a certain autist from previous page - "they wanna be the same with 300 ping with someone with 100 ms ping?"

So , no , we won't get rid of horrific ping taxes (at least in a official and legal way) as long as this community has these kind of players who believe its correct for high ping players to have subpar gaming experience as compared to low ping players.
Catservant wrote: »
4. Anyone else finding it odd that we are still talking to each other about this? I'm glad we are, I think it's a very useful, but honestly I expected to be hit with the Wrath of the Mods by now.

I don`t think its odd. This thread is mostly informative, and alot of people very feel strongly about theses subject, as these are issues which effect everyone. Like, i`m one of those people which are strongly against game breaking hacks, and I appreciate EME (or whoever) for attempting to resolve game breaking issues. And, no, this is not a PR (public relations) educing reply, I genuinely do not care about anyone's circumstances (BHS/EME included), ideology, or counter-arguments. These are not my problems as a costumer. The only things I care about, are results. And I think its good that threads are being made around these subjects because this is not a black and white issue. I think it would be a mistake to cover everything under the rug. Only a fool would try to bury issues which have existed long before they ever did.

Though I think that you're right. If people would be more respectful towards each other, if they find a common ground despite petty disagreements, they would help create a more positive change. But not for the game Devs sakes - for themselves. And, no, I am not taking a moral high ground - I don`t care if a positive change would be born from utter chaos or from tranquil communication. I`m selfish, I just want the game to be played as it was intended: without horrific pings taxes and without game breaking hacks.
Have been avoiding comments on this issue, but I seem to have reached my limits here.

Lets face it, a lot of idiots who have no idea what the actual situation is will go on saying that these "Third-Party" software are cheats and exploits. True enough, they are in some way, but they fail to understand the true purpose behind them even existing.

Strangely enough, lets ask the community then. Have you had a lancer use Shield Bash-Onslaught, only to find yourself teleport through the boss? Have you used Slayer's Heart Thrust or Brawler's Haymaker while mobs/boss/bam attack exactly the time your skill hits, only to find out that you got hit somehow (Especially in VSH yea, when Dakuryon does a front slam and you still get hit by it anyways!). Also, have you wondered why when the server lags, skills like Valkyrie's Shining Crescent or Reaper's Shadow Burst takes so much longer to cast?

Well there you have it, you fell victim to the crux of the problem! That is called ping tax and de-syncs. Now, add that to players who have over 100ms ping all the time and what do you get? You get slow and sub-optimal play. Now you know why these Third-Party software exists?

So fix the game, not the community, not the people. THE GAME.

NO one is disputing that these "fixes" should be gone too. But the price of the integrity of the game is TOO much. If people hadn't exploited those same things to cheat and hadn't taken it one step further (too far) then this wouldn't be happening. But unfortunately the EXPLOITERS ruined it for you. Not the people like me who are tired of having PVP ruined by cheaters. I have many high ping friends and feel for them not being able to use things that help them play like a low ping player. But unfortunately... people exploited something good and ruined it for everyone.
@Salvatori You can still submit a ticket with their in-game name and what they were doing when it happened, approximate time of date, etc. File it as a 'report player' ticket, and they will look into their logs and take appropriate action. I've done it numerous times when I was unable to take screenshots of their exploits.

From experience, I've had proof screenshotted, I've had videos submitted against people and they only got banned for a week. So... not really sure how "Seriously" they take it :)
Angeline wrote: »
@Halrath I google-translated this for you. I hope it's useful when (if) you talk to BHS later. <3

당신의 패치는 똥입니다. 실제 개발자를 고용하십시오.

LMFAO
@Halrath I google-translated this for you. I hope it's useful when (if) you talk to BHS later. <3

당신의 패치는 똥입니다. 실제 개발자를 고용하십시오.
As I reflect on this discussion so far, several things stand out to me.

1. It's been remarkably civil. There's really been a minimum of snark and venting.
2. It's interesting, especially to those of us who don't Discord.
3. There are some really good points being made, and I hope EME and through them BHS are taking notes. I also hope the Discord groups come up with new ideas on how to police things from their end. If I'm wishing for the moon I would wish that EME would get permission to have an open discussion about the above with the devs. You know, like they do in ESO (Elder Scrolls Online, for those who have not encountered it yet). My understanding is that third party mods are encouraged, sanctioned and even occasionally paid for by the game devs. It's a way of accessing more talent without having it on salary. Imagine if EME could broker a deal between devs and BHS to get optimization scripts added to the game. Like I said, wishing for the moon here.
4. Anyone else finding it odd that we are still talking to each other about this? I'm glad we are, I think it's a very useful, but honestly I expected to be hit with the Wrath of the Mods by now.
gib wrote: »
while its unfortunate that the proxy allows for malicious modules being used, it's benefits far outweigh its downsides. the exploits that are currently being circulated are easily fixed in a matter of minutes if eme chooses to do so, which only leaves the positive benefits. it does suck that people are ruining a good thing by using it for malicious intent, but that not what it was originally made for. however, the action that eme and other regions are taking to combat the exploiting is completely wrong. oneshotting is still as easy as ever to abuse, while the obfuscation of the packets and opcodes make actual development of good modules like skill prediction a major inconvenience.

if eme and other regions took advice from actual smart players, they could have avoided this fiasco in the first place. we can't blame the players entirely for trying to fix things themselves, when eme and bhs refuse to do so.

but it does suck that these exploits have given proxy a bad reputation. i just hope that eme and bhs will drop the ego and listen to people who know what they're talking about.

Look... I love this game and I want this thing to resolve well for everybody. I really do. But, this narrative is hardly convincing. This isn't Robin Hood or something. As most everyone predicted, creating an open toolkit to make it easier to create and distribute illegal modifications was inevitably going to attract the darker side of the community. These cheaters and exploiters are not outsiders to the cause -- they're integral leaders of the mod community now. If there was really a strong concern about preserving the "ideological purity" of the technology -- to ensure that it would only ever be used for good and be universally recognized for that -- things would have been done differently all along, and we wouldn't be here now. It feels more like it's only "unfortunate" because it weakens the "good outweighs the bad" narrative, not because there's been any real, vocal part of that community that's been actively fighting against this downward spiral all along.

If you really do want to see these conversations happen, you can't on the one hand tell EME and BHS to "drop the ego" while still sitting on your high horse -- particularly not after all that's been going on recently. I'd actually really like to see the good aspects of the system not get entirely swept up in the bad, but I really feel that this story -- this attitude -- is actively hurting the cause for everyone, and further entrenching the situation. I think a more sober and honest look, without the self-justification and copious back-patting, would be much more productive at this point. But hey, that's just my opinion. I'm not pretending I have all the answers either.


Oh, and for what it's worth...
gib wrote: »
proxy by itself isn't a bad thing. it just had its reputation tarnished by a certain exploit. i dont know why you've a bad attitude towards it when it's not bad at all.
It's not just this by any means. That was only the straw the broke the camel's back. If you really think it's just this one thing that's an issue, you're extremely ill-informed about the length and breadth of what's currently in use. This apparent ignorance -- whether willful or not -- is another thing I feel undermines the narrative you're proposing.

Well said, and very convincing.
Halrath wrote: »
As a side-effect however, the update will also render many other third-party tools/mods unusable.

People are making so much noise, when the answers are in front of they're eyes. People need to chill. Look at the bright side, at least they are openly admitting that they only care about game breaking cheats. So keep you're pants on. They know that meters and most quality of life/ping improvements are not the real devil. And even if they were, too many people rely on them at this point in time, so they won`t kill something that keep the players playing, and keeps the buyers buying. Legal posturing required.

As for the game breaking cheats, like that god awful video someone posted, I think they owe it to the community to do something about that. Really. Fine, so they won`t give people a reason to stop using proxies (like fixing ping issues or whatever), people are used to that already. You know, because not providing a permeate solution for ping issue, is on them. However, I think they should at least give people a reason to log into the game. Why am I saying that now? because you see, when people use junk like that Memeslash to break the already broken in-game economy, then I for one am very reluctant to use one of its core features (the broker). And I think that anyone with two cent of brain (and competitive players alike) should be against these things. Its extreme and unnecessary.
Vindicting wrote: »
"Considering the thief openly said that he didn't write it and all the people who claim to be involved in writing it said it was stolen, the facts do line up."

Right. So there is noooo possibility that bern sold his scripts like he usually does?
And don't come at me with "bern only sells ethical scripts" now.
We both know that's a lie.
If you think he sold it then feel free to find evidence of that and show me. Everyone says Bern hasn't sold it and he was actually quite angry when the thief sold it.

How exactly can a script be stolen? Did they hack into his PC in order to get the code? Or did he happen to upload it online and share it with a few people and have it get leaked? Either way, why would he make a script like that in the first place? It's like making an atomic bomb, showing it off, then claiming you have no responsibility when someone takes it and nukes a city.

If you think about it, Bernkastel is already officially permabanned, meaning he had nothing to lose by making dangerous scripts like these. It doesn't mean he is not at fault, but there is no reason for him to worry about anything. If he is angry about the oneshot being stolen, it is more likely he is angry he didn't get a profit off this ridiculous exploit, since the game means nothing to him, but earning profits off his newfound business (script writing likely).

It won't make sense for a person to lie and say someone stole his code and put it up online for public viewers at least with this fact in mind. If he is stopping the abuse from going too far, it means he can profit from it. But in this case it would mean a potential crisis averted.

Regardless, as a developer myself (not for this kind of scripts although from just the looks of it I don't think it is that hard to make). I can safely say that stealing code is as easy as a warrior using backstab, especially when the case is more likely to be a irl backstab case than anything.

I am not advocating Bernkastel or anyone even trying to bring out exploits over the past months, but sometimes the people at fault are the ones who put the most effort in resolving the situation, so stop pointing fingers and really let the real experts resolve memeslash.

Vindicting wrote: »
"Considering the thief openly said that he didn't write it and all the people who claim to be involved in writing it said it was stolen, the facts do line up."

Right. So there is noooo possibility that bern sold his scripts like he usually does?
And don't come at me with "bern only sells ethical scripts" now.
We both know that's a lie.
If you think he sold it then feel free to find evidence of that and show me. Everyone says Bern hasn't sold it and he was actually quite angry when the thief sold it.

How exactly can a script be stolen? Did they hack into his PC in order to get the code? Or did he happen to upload it online and share it with a few people and have it get leaked? Either way, why would he make a script like that in the first place? It's like making an atomic bomb, showing it off, then claiming you have no responsibility when someone takes it and nukes a city.
I agree it's high time to put an end to the exploits and cheats, it's gone on way too long. I've played this game a long time without using any 3rd party mods/addons and have had no issues doing what I need to do. However if En Masse is going after all the cheats and exploits then they need to do just that, such as the "memeslash" "spam bots" and the like instead of rolling out a "fix" and leaving more holes in it than a slice of Swiss cheese.
Vindicting wrote: »
LesbianVi wrote: »
gib wrote: »
Vindicting wrote: »
gib wrote: »
yes. the "security" update that came out was nothing more than the removal of packet names. so opcodes have to be manually mapped. this is a major inconvenience for modules like skill prediction, seeing how they use so many packets, but it's still incredibly easy to make oneshot work. it literally takes 2 packets to abuse.
I saw Pinkie and Bern talk about heuristics and decompiler so hopefully that's just temporary. It would suck to see skill prediction break or become harder to maintain putting more strain on kind players who help others but do nothing against exploits. I already saw someone memeslashing again today.

yes, pinki has already sort of come up with an automated process for mapping the packets. skill prediction is pretty much working in NA and EU, but any update is just more work to map the packets again.

Skill prediction and of coarse enrage announcement are fine by you people? Changing the nature of the game? making it a like a Tab-target and skill prediction that even works for pvp?

I am not uninformed, it was proven.
Well you are not just uninformed, you're too stupid to even become informed.

I feel out of my seat laughing at this one qq
LesbianVi wrote: »
you are not the majority, the majority are in the game
true, clueless majority is in game. you know them. poor souls who started playing, reached lvl65 and then left after 2 weeks coz noone gave them mongos or kyra or crabs or whatever. i still have tons of them in my friendlists. so yeaa lol :)
"Everyone says Bern hasn't sold it and he was actually quite angry when the thief sold it."
Hurr durr everyone in my filter bubble says it's not true so it can't be true! Hurr durr

Hurr durr no evidence guy accusing Bern of something probably out of personal grudge spamming hurr durr. What irony.
AzuraRa wrote: »
@PossiblyLost thank you for explaining!
Now I understand why my server is really almost dead most of time.
Cheaters... Everywhere >_<
i bet your server is AV. its dead for other reasons not related to cheaters
"Everyone says Bern hasn't sold it and he was actually quite angry when the thief sold it."
Hurr durr everyone in my filter bubble says it's not true so it can't be true! Hurr durr
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