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TERA PC - General Discussion: Anyone else having a hard time with loot boxes from the Black Friday sale?

I opened 48 Emulator lootboxes (5300 EMP worth) and all I have to show for it are completely useless Metamorphic Emblems (why is this even in the prize pool?). Why is there no transparency regarding the odds with these boxes? Seriously this Black Friday "sale" feels more like a Black Friday SCAM.

I don't disagree with you, but the issue you're noting is by no means new -- it's been the same issue ever since the very first lootboxes were added to this game 6+ years ago. With no posted odds and no failure cap, you could easily have cases where you open 100+ boxes and not win the prize -- every time you have a separate small chance to win. While I absolutely think they should show the odds, even that won't protect you from RNG without a failure cap.

As for metamorphics, the recent patch changes made this less relevant and either they're going to have to make them relevant again or replace the pool in all lootboxes across the board, which would be a major but necessary undertaking. It's a known issue, at the very least. Buyer beware. (Then again, here too, we've been through waves where the fodder in these boxes has been useless in the past too -- it's a cyclic issue.)

TERA PC - General Discussion#3 TJKat11/30/2019, 08:43 PM

You know, the simplest solution to the metamorphic emblem issue would be to add things relevant to the current patch to the meta shop.

The other thing that needs to go is dyad niveot structures. Completely useless in the current patch.

TERA PC - General Discussion#4 RonLaw11/30/2019, 08:52 PM

Why did you buy any?

@Terraforming said:
I opened 48 Emulator lootboxes (5300 EMP worth) and all I have to show for it are completely useless Metamorphic Emblems (why is this even in the prize pool?). Why is there no transparency regarding the odds with these boxes? Seriously this Black Friday "sale" feels more like a Black Friday SCAM.

I agree the rates should be disclosed.
However, seriously, if the rates were anywhere near decent the companies wouldn't be afraid to reveal it.

@RonLaw said:
Why did you buy any?

Exactly.

TERA PC - General Discussion#6 Elinu111/30/2019, 10:54 PM

@Terraforming said:
I opened 48 Emulator lootboxes (5300 EMP worth) and all I have to show for it are completely useless Metamorphic Emblems (why is this even in the prize pool?). Why is there no transparency regarding the odds with these boxes? Seriously this Black Friday "sale" feels more like a Black Friday SCAM.

I have refused to open lootboxes for a few years because of spending hundreds of dollars and not getting anything worth the cost.

Buying loot boxes in the first place was a HUGE mistake. EME just made easy money from your lootbox purchases.

@MatrixOfLeaders said:
Buying loot boxes in the first place was a HUGE mistake. EME just made easy money from your lootbox purchases.

eme has made a butt load of money from everyone's lootbox purchases, and that is why they are still for sale and the rng is so bad. I think everyone here has gotten burned by lootboxes at some point in time. I don't think they are worth the risk, but those with money to burn, it doesn't bother them. also the sale of these lootboxes and character bound mounts only have made eme loads of money and that money is what is keeping the game free to play and open for business. whenever people quit buying stuff from the store, the game will shut down. so thank you to all of you that continue to buy emp. I did for a long time until they quit selling account bound mounts.

@MargaretRose said:

@Terraforming said:
I opened 48 Emulator lootboxes (5300 EMP worth) and all I have to show for it are completely useless Metamorphic Emblems (why is this even in the prize pool?). Why is there no transparency regarding the odds with these boxes? Seriously this Black Friday "sale" feels more like a Black Friday SCAM.

I agree the rates should be disclosed.
However, seriously, if the rates were anywhere near decent the companies wouldn't be afraid to reveal it.

Honestly, this is the biggest reason why I think the rates should be disclosed. I've seen plenty of gacha games where the odds for a target rare are 0.5% or less, and they still make money hand over fist... and I actually think EME's rates are higher than that (probably somewhere in the range of 2 or 3%). But when you don't disclose the odds, what's the conclusion people can be expected to come to...?

(For TERA Console in Japan, EME does actually disclose the rates, and I highly doubt the rates are hugely different in cases where it's the same item. Unfortunately, Console doesn't have a web store, so only way to see is to install it...)

TERA PC - General Discussion#10 Christin12/01/2019, 01:27 PM

@Terraforming said:
I opened 48 Emulator lootboxes (5300 EMP worth) and all I have to show for it are completely useless Metamorphic Emblems (why is this even in the prize pool?). Why is there no transparency regarding the odds with these boxes? Seriously this Black Friday "sale" feels more like a Black Friday SCAM.

You're not the only one feeling like this, and there are plenty of other players that most likely have spent their last dime on this game. From players that bought $250 for a mount that ended up getting dumped on broker to players that were destroyed by rng only to see lucky players cash out. Not only do I feel bad for all of the above, but if you saw how fast people were enchanting gear on Friday, you'd feel bad for all of those that wasted time grinding to enchant their gear only to see people throw cash and level up their gear in a day (no joke). Personally, just tired of seeing so many others take the bait in a game that doesn't have much of a future anyways. Lets face it, as soon as AIR gets released, BHS will most likely stop updating Tera in order to force current Tera players over to the new game. So, why even bother anymore when all most of us did was fish anyways? Now, that is even a waste when you fish and fish only to waste your entire gold stash on something that turns out to be absolutely worthless. Not much point to even bother after that.

I doubt very much that A: IR will make any success in NA.

They have released so many games that have the same p2w mechanics in progress that people just ignore the mmorpg PC (private serve is more popular than the official one these days).

mmorpg games are only accepted on KR and JP any other country is no longer acceptable, honestly all my 8 years on NA mmorpg all have the same problem.

@Christin said:
You're not the only one feeling like this, and there are plenty of other players that most likely have spent their last dime on this game. From players that bought $250 for a mount that ended up getting dumped on broker [...]

You've mentioned this in a bunch of threads now, but FWIW, people spent $250 to get 35000 EMP and as a bonus they got a dyeable outfit and a rare mount. No one should have thought the mount or the outfit would be "worth $250" -- they still have the $250 worth of EMP to spend on whatever they want.

The argument about lootboxes I totally understand (as mentioned above), but this one is just some weird sort of misunderstanding if people are actually upset about this.

I gave up on loot boxes awhile ago in pretty much any game. It's kind of weird how we've gotten to the point where we are willing to spend money for a chance of getting what we pay for. It's a strange gambling oriented mindset that isn't legally gambling because you always get "something". $200 for some metas and health potions I guess is something

TERA PC - General Discussion#14 arieall12/02/2019, 08:08 PM

i opened 40 boxes for the pet cat and got zip so your not alone. every time i was emp on them i end up pissed off. This time at least it was emp from elite and free emp event. This is also the i won't buy emp for stuff any more.

@DeusFurta said:
My advise is, especially for loot box related items, buy it with gold instead of EMP. Let someone else suffer trying to open boxes. As long as the drops are tradeable, En Masse will get their money and you will get your item.

While I understand what you're saying, offloading the risk to someone else isn't really going to solve anything or save anything over the long term. I guess maybe it reduces your personal stress/frustration at a bout of bad RNG, but the price you pay will be more than the average you'd spend on opening lootboxes yourself over time, and the extra profit just goes to the sellers (providing further incentive).

Ultimately, if people really want to send a message, they have to stop buying lootbox items at all even with gold. But yeah, I guess odds of that happening are pretty slim, so...

@counterpoint Yeah I definitely understand what you're saying. I'm sure that there are many ways to improve things from where they are but I'm not really the type who will start lobbying for change. Especially considering how that process typically work in this game. I also think there are larger industry wide trends being followed here that will be very hard to shake.

While voting with your wallet is a nice sentiment whales will be whales and will likely have a much larger swing on cash shop balance. Guess that's why I just keep them fed and move on with my day lol

@counterpoint said:

Ultimately, if people really want to send a message, they have to stop buying lootbox items at all even with gold. But yeah, I guess odds of that happening are pretty slim, so...

Indeed.

TERA PC - General Discussion#18 DXM12/03/2019, 06:52 PM

@counterpoint said: I actually think EME's rates are higher than that (probably somewhere in the range of 2 or 3%). But when you don't disclose the odds, what's the conclusion people can be expected to come to...?

Having just played and completed TERA (Asia) on X1, it says most boxes are 2% and some are 1%. That version didn't have En Masse involvement I don't believe, but even so those rates seem accurate from my experiences on PC. The rates directly from the devs can't be too far off from what we have here, since they probably just dictate to En Masse what to make the rates.

Over the Black Friday sale I had what I consider an average TERA lootbox experience. The only lootbox item I went for was the Ultracorn/Megasus mounts. I bought around 140 boxes and got 5 mounts (1 Megasus and 4 Ultracorn) for my characters.

TERA PC - General Discussion#19 TJKat12/03/2019, 07:10 PM

It's not just EME - or even video games for that matter - but a lot of businesses in a lot of different industries seem to be going with the "get as much money from our CURRENT consumer base as possible" model. On the surface, this may seem like the way to go, but it's very short-term focused. Long term it does nothing to grow the consumer base, rather it just keeps making it smaller. It becomes a vicious cycle of using a shrinking consumer base to justify unsavoury business practices that drive more consumers away and further shrink the consumer base. TBH, I think we're to the point where "voting with your wallet" doesn't work anymore, it only further justifies gouging us even more.

@DXM said:

@counterpoint said: I actually think EME's rates are higher than that (probably somewhere in the range of 2 or 3%). But when you don't disclose the odds, what's the conclusion people can be expected to come to...?

Having just played and completed TERA (Asia) on X1, it says most boxes are 2% and some are 1%. That version didn't have En Masse involvement I don't believe, but even so those rates seem accurate from my experiences on PC. The rates directly from the devs can't be too far off from what we have here, since they probably just dictate to En Masse what to make the rates.

Over the Black Friday sale I had what I consider an average TERA lootbox experience. The only lootbox item I went for was the Ultracorn/Megasus mounts. I bought around 140 boxes and got 5 mounts (1 Megasus and 4 Ultracorn) for my characters.

FWIW, the rates aren't common between the regions (each region makes their own boxes with different contents).

Your "average experience" is pretty similar to my own experience, but that suggests a rare rate of 3.5%. So that's why I tend to think it's probably closer to 2-3% than 1-2% here.

But anyway, regardless of it is, the fact that it does get posted in the regions where the law requires in and it hasn't killed the game there shows that there's no reason for publishers to fear it.

@counterpoint said:

@DeusFurta said:
My advise is, especially for loot box related items, buy it with gold instead of EMP. Let someone else suffer trying to open boxes. As long as the drops are tradeable, En Masse will get their money and you will get your item.

While I understand what you're saying, offloading the risk to someone else isn't really going to solve anything or save anything over the long term. I guess maybe it reduces your personal stress/frustration at a bout of bad RNG, but the price you pay will be more than the average you'd spend on opening lootboxes yourself over time, and the extra profit just goes to the sellers (providing further incentive).

Ultimately, if people really want to send a message, they have to stop buying lootbox items at all even with gold. But yeah, I guess odds of that happening are pretty slim, so...

I was at a panel at Magfest a few years ago that talked about this.

Long and short, even though you've stopped buying lootboxes, someone else still is. Depending on how many boxes those other people are buying, they can actually offset the boxes not being bought by other people, ergo minimizing or even negating any potential profit losses.

So... what can you do?

TERA PC - General Discussion#22 Christin12/03/2019, 11:33 PM

@counterpoint said:

@Christin said:
You're not the only one feeling like this, and there are plenty of other players that most likely have spent their last dime on this game. From players that bought $250 for a mount that ended up getting dumped on broker [...]

You've mentioned this in a bunch of threads now, but FWIW, people spent $250 to get 35000 EMP and as a bonus they got a dyeable outfit and a rare mount. No one should have thought the mount or the outfit would be "worth $250" -- they still have the $250 worth of EMP to spend on whatever they want.

The argument about lootboxes I totally understand (as mentioned above), but this one is just some weird sort of misunderstanding if people are actually upset about this.

Actually, it was a big selling point for that huge pack to get a an exclusive mount. Yeah, you can buy a lot smaller pack of EMP and still have the EMP, so to say "Well, they still got the EMP." is a bit cold-hearted. Are you seriously sitting there saying everyone bought $250 worth of EMP just for the EMP? Yeah, and the mount turned out to be dumped all over the broker along with that dyeable outfit. Everyone knew the outfit wasn't going to keep its value, but to have the mounts drop like that is ridiculous. Just another perfect example of how little EME really cares about the players that they let something some people paid big bucks for just tank on the broker. Your defense of that really doesn't help much.

@Christin said:

@counterpoint said:

@Christin said:
You're not the only one feeling like this, and there are plenty of other players that most likely have spent their last dime on this game. From players that bought $250 for a mount that ended up getting dumped on broker [...]

You've mentioned this in a bunch of threads now, but FWIW, people spent $250 to get 35000 EMP and as a bonus they got a dyeable outfit and a rare mount. No one should have thought the mount or the outfit would be "worth $250" -- they still have the $250 worth of EMP to spend on whatever they want.

The argument about lootboxes I totally understand (as mentioned above), but this one is just some weird sort of misunderstanding if people are actually upset about this.

Actually, it was a big selling point for that huge pack to get a an exclusive mount. Yeah, you can buy a lot smaller pack of EMP and still have the EMP, so to say "Well, they still got the EMP." is a bit cold-hearted. Are you seriously sitting there saying everyone bought $250 worth of EMP just for the EMP? Yeah, and the mount turned out to be dumped all over the broker along with that dyeable outfit. Everyone knew the outfit wasn't going to keep its value, but to have the mounts drop like that is ridiculous. Just another perfect example of how little EME really cares about the players that they let something some people paid big bucks for just tank on the broker. Your defense of that really doesn't help much.

They were literally "gifts with purchase" -- they're bonus items.

Besides, what exactly do you expect them to do to make sure the mount "retains its value on the broker"? They're still exclusive to that bundle. What people are selling them for is a reflection of how desirable they are to other players, and the apparent fact that more people bought the $250 bundle without caring about the mount than you seemingly hoped. Are you saying they should have given people less of a reason to want to buy EMP so that the mounts would remain more rare to the people who bought it, and thus more desirable?

Again, there is so much legitimately wrong to complain about... I don't know why this is taken as a sign of the end-times. It makes no sense.

TERA PC - General Discussion#24 Christin12/04/2019, 02:59 AM

@counterpoint said:

@Christin said:

@counterpoint said:

@Christin said:
You're not the only one feeling like this, and there are plenty of other players that most likely have spent their last dime on this game. From players that bought $250 for a mount that ended up getting dumped on broker [...]

You've mentioned this in a bunch of threads now, but FWIW, people spent $250 to get 35000 EMP and as a bonus they got a dyeable outfit and a rare mount. No one should have thought the mount or the outfit would be "worth $250" -- they still have the $250 worth of EMP to spend on whatever they want.

The argument about lootboxes I totally understand (as mentioned above), but this one is just some weird sort of misunderstanding if people are actually upset about this.

Actually, it was a big selling point for that huge pack to get a an exclusive mount. Yeah, you can buy a lot smaller pack of EMP and still have the EMP, so to say "Well, they still got the EMP." is a bit cold-hearted. Are you seriously sitting there saying everyone bought $250 worth of EMP just for the EMP? Yeah, and the mount turned out to be dumped all over the broker along with that dyeable outfit. Everyone knew the outfit wasn't going to keep its value, but to have the mounts drop like that is ridiculous. Just another perfect example of how little EME really cares about the players that they let something some people paid big bucks for just tank on the broker. Your defense of that really doesn't help much.

They were literally "gifts with purchase" -- they're bonus items.

Besides, what exactly do you expect them to do to make sure the mount "retains its value on the broker"? They're still exclusive to that bundle. What people are selling them for is a reflection of how desirable they are to other players, and the apparent fact that more people bought the $250 bundle without caring about the mount than you seemingly hoped. Are you saying they should have given people less of a reason to want to buy EMP so that the mounts would remain more rare to the people who bought it, and thus more desirable?

Again, there is so much legitimately wrong to complain about... I don't know why this is taken as a sign of the end-times in the midst of everything else. It makes no sense.

Once again you just twist everything and then add in some random point to deflect the real issue(less of a reason to buy? smh). I'll be sure to tell the people that feel burned by the entire Black Friday event that they should just stfu, because you feel they have nothing legitimately to complain about. Just wow. You act like this to so many people on here yet if anyone posts anything about you, you label it as a "personal attack". Oh, the irony of it all.

TBH, I don't really care what they do anymore. The smartest thing they could have done would have been to buy up those mounts, so they wouldn't have dropped to be utterly worthless. Of course, they don't do that, because they can't even stand to play their own game let alone log on to buy up some mounts so people that spent a lot of money on them don't feel like a bunch of fools, but who cares. They spent money on this game, so yeah, they should feel like a bunch of fools right? On one hand you say that people that spend money are supporting the game, but on the other hand it's alright if they end up regretting it within hours of their purchase. Whatever. You and the other brain surgeons at EME seems to know everything anyways. You all have done such a great job so far that as soon as summer was over, the pvp server became dead and new players constantly complain on the pve server that dungeons won't pop. Yeah, applauds all around! Certainly whatever you're doing is working out really great!

Well, moving on now. Not even going to bother to comment on the other threads as it's obvious nothing ever goes anywhere anyways. You simply placate everyone on here and then proceed to explain to them why their complaint or issue isn't really BHS or EME's fault at all. Same rhetoric, different day.

@Christin said:
The smartest thing they could have done would have been to buy up those mounts, so they wouldn't have dropped to be utterly worthless. Of course, they don't do that, because they can't even stand to play their own game let alone log on to buy up some mounts so people that spent a lot of money on them don't feel like a bunch of fools, but who cares.

I don't think EME directly intervening in the player market to artificially inflate demand by buying up all the supply is really solving anything. I'd even border on calling that unethical since it interferes with the fair chance for F2P players to get mounts at a price determined by actual player supply and demand. (If the people who bought the EMP don't want the mount, that's a better opportunity for other players who do want it to get it.) The fact that you bought the EMP based on a prediction of the rarity/value of the mount is basically a speculation game you played, and you don't always win that kind of speculation. And yes, you still got the mount + the costume + 35000 EMP (which is a better $:EMP ratio than is available at almost any other time of the year), so I honestly don't think you were shortchanged. I'm not saying that people who feel that way should "stfu"... but I'm saying that your argument about the problem and the proposed solution isn't very convincing. I highly doubt that I'm a harder person to convince than the EME staff would be.

You simply placate everyone on here and then proceed to explain to them why their complaint or issue isn't really BHS or EME's fault at all.

Sometimes I think it clearly is EME or BHS's fault, and when it is, I say so (and typically explain that I've already raised the issue to them or will do so). Other times, I explain why I think it's BHS/EME's fault but there are circumstances that make it this way (which is usually because the issue has already been brought up). Other times when I legitimately don't think it's anyone's fault, I'll say that too. But I try to say something whenever possible so people don't feel like no one's listening (even if it isn't the answer they want to hear).

What's the alternative? Do nothing and let people argue into the void with absolutely no feedback about whether there argument carries any potential weight or not? Lie and pretend like people's feedback is valid to make them feel better when I know full well that their arguments are flawed or there are circumstances preventing the issue from being addressed? I've been carrying on exactly the same way for as long as I've been on this forum (even back when Minea was still around). If people truly think that my being here is the cause of EME no longer taking interest in the forum, I can step down and leave it to the fates. I don't need to be the punching bag for people's frustration that EME isn't paying a community team anymore and no one has the time/responsibility to monitor the forum.

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