TERA Online forum archive
TERA PC - General Discussion: So am i just not allowed to run or learn content?
Venting. Last few days have been upsetting to say the least, my guild of 103 is gone under the guise of taking a break. Lfg wont let me in, no one wants to join my learning lfgs.

I sit there for hours so i get fesparare and queue IM to do many of the 439 stuff.

Every time it either ends in disbanding because theres new players mixed witj vets and the vets dont have the patience or they start kicking players for living up to their IM standards.

Like today i joinex RK-9 and explicitly told them, like i do all new dungeons , that i am new, have read a guide and to please have patience with me.

Not. One. Party. Did the latter.

Got killex twice on the 1st boss once to missles and once to spin attack

Died 4 or 5 times to 2nd boss push into instant death aoe or various othe bleex out mechanics but so did a couple other players

Last boss i died once right before shield phase i get rezzed aa its going off and try to assist in dps and fumbled trying to tap my nostrum while mashing boomerang > lotw combo and we wipe

Get kicked and their reason is because they need the dps on shield phase so no one should die

Broken prison? The tank wanted to disband because "too many ppl are new"

Red refuge? Roughly the same thing

Ruinous manor healer. "DC" (read; leave ) before the 1st boss

Basically im not allowed to die so how do i learn how to not die?

LFGsi made take hours to get 1 or 2 ppl

IM takes 10 minutes to an hour to pop and its been nothing but disbands or kicks because being new is a crime now

I cant become competant if they wont let me

A guide only does so much i need actual exp to get better but the community wont let me

All the way from 1 to frost metal +0 i dealt with this to some degree and became competant and make 0 mistakes but now i cant do ANYTHING

Its happened repeatedly over the last 5 days in various different dungeons we quit at the 1st or 2nd boss or in RRs case they leave before the pull

I have played many mmos, raided etc but i have never dealt with such a cannibalistic community,

I kept teling myself itll get better, higher lvl dungeons ppl get more patient, itll be fine, keep pushing along.


Its not fine

It didnt get better it got worse

Guilds dead

Other guilds require an essay to get in

LFG neve fills

IM is for perfect players only apparently

[filtered] am.i supposed to do?
Tl;Dr

Im.stuck and deleted the game out of frustration.
TERA PC - General Discussion#3 Huv10/17/2018, 06:48 PM
You answered your own question
FWIW go to EU or come to NA console

Much more friendly and forgiving than pc from my experience. If you do come to Kelsaik pvp server and join Retribution.

We regularly run learning groups.

> @Huv said:
> You answered your own question

He was venting, question was rhetorical if im reading this right.
It's not a new thing that "being new is a crime," as you put it.

I noticed this a while ago: the game itself (to say nothing of the playerbase...) doesn't really accommodate new players. Once you hit 65 the game assumes you know specific things about it that nobody bothered to mention (because there was no need for it). And despite that, the price of failure is high thanks to both dungeon limitations and the insistence that you need to have a full party to do anything, so you either have to spend f**k knows how long gathering a party and busting your a** trying to learn or proceed with being an ignorant scrub wasting everyone's time. :confused:

The worst part? This has been a thing for literal YEARS. First time doing a dungeon but not skilled in it (despite, you know, having not done it before)? You and the elin you came with can f**k right off.
TERA PC - General Discussion#6 Auranu10/17/2018, 07:20 PM
If you decide to play again and happen to be on the Velika server feel free to message me here or in game (fral) I'll be happy to run with you. I dont have problems teaching anybody who is willing to better themselves.
Choose pve server not PvP, cause PvP isn’t too friendly. I have been in parties where people kick 9 players in the same dugen cause don’t meet their standards or are newbies
> @Auranu said:
> If you decide to play again and happen to be on the Velika server feel free to message me here or in game (fral) I'll be happy to run with you. I dont have problems teaching anybody who is willing to better themselves.

If i come back ill definitely ask you.

> @Gatokatzen said:
> Choose pve server not PvP, cause PvP isn’t too friendly. I have been in parties where people kick 9 players in the same dugen cause don’t meet their standards or are newbies

Velika is pve right?
TERA PC - General Discussion#9 Auranu10/17/2018, 07:43 PM
Zubberfly wrote: »
> @Auranu said:
> If you decide to play again and happen to be on the Velika server feel free to message me here or in game (fral) I'll be happy to run with you. I dont have problems teaching anybody who is willing to better themselves.

If i come back ill definitely ask you.

> @Gatokatzen said:
> Choose pve server not PvP, cause PvP isn’t too friendly. I have been in parties where people kick 9 players in the same dugen cause don’t meet their standards or are newbies

Velika is pve right?

velika is the pve server
TERA PC - General Discussion#10 Awri10/17/2018, 07:51 PM
Well, if you ever decide to try Tera again and are on the Velika server, my boyfriend and I are teaching some of our friends the dungeons and we'd be happy to help you as well.

Edit: Ah I see someone else offered as well.
TERA PC - General Discussion#11 Nopi10/17/2018, 07:57 PM
This is common of Western gaming. You are only allowed to not know about something if that something is day one brand new. After that? Yes, it's a crime punishable by online death if you don't read guides and watch videos ad infinitum so you can magically waltz through content like a 100 year veteran on your very first try. Really. It's the standards gamer heads have placed upon all of gaming in the West. It's not even about 'Git Gud' anymore. It's about them demanding you to be perfect from the get go, because they don't have time for you. Their time is too important because they have 10 more games to attend, all fed by their daddy's credit card.

Anyway. I'll stop. Today is one of those days where I hate everything... even waffles.
TERA PC - General Discussion#12 Vy1Vivi10/17/2018, 08:14 PM
Its much easier if you have a core group of friends (online or real-life) to experience and learn the new dungeons, or at least have a couple friends queuing with you so that you're not going in on it blind and alone. My boyfriend and I have been doing this with a couple other friends, and sometimes we queue together. We all stumble and make mistakes, die, wipe, etc, even in random parties (had a disastrous run in RK-9 with two other randoms), but it was okay because we weren't experienced with the dungeon and quite honestly neither were the randoms so it was okay, no one complained. But mostly there's usually five of us so we just go in the dungeons and struggle/learn together.

I guess my point is that its really hard to be new at the stuff and alone. I never see 'learning groups,' hell I rarely saw them when I first played 5 years ago and nice random people willing to be patient were a rare occurrence as well. If you can find and make friends to share in the struggle of learning and practicing the dungeons its much better. You're right about the community, its pretty cold, and very unsociable too unless you're in an active guild I guess or already have friends to play with.
TERA PC - General Discussion#13 Paige00710/17/2018, 09:13 PM
I'm so torn on this. I'm not hardcore at all and only reached 431 for the first time due to the event. So...I watch videos but until you play and know what to look for, you can't really know how a boss fight will go with no experience. I really emphasize and am also scared to join parties as a 1st timer. So far the only 431 I've done is Lilith Keep. My first run failed (IM) and second run I got carried by good people. But... now I know it and can pull my weight insomuch as my gear allows. I'm not as helpful as those LFG groups that say "LK Normal - Stormcry only" since I'm halfway through upgrading Twistshard but I know what I'm doing.

On the other hand, in instance matching - there are people that go in with no or odd crystals and somehow do no damage and one boss can take 20 minutes that takes other groups 5 minutes. It's frustrating and runs like that result in failure, so I can see not wanting to deal with parties that bad.



TERA PC - General Discussion#14 Nopi10/17/2018, 09:25 PM
Paige007 wrote: »
I'm so torn on this. I'm not hardcore at all and only reached 431 for the first time due to the event. So...I watch videos but until you play and know what to look for, you can't really know how a boss fight will go with no experience. I really emphasize and am also scared to join parties as a 1st timer. So far the only 431 I've done is Lilith Keep. My first run failed (IM) and second run I got carried by good people. But... now I know it and can pull my weight insomuch as my gear allows. I'm not as helpful as those LFG groups that say "LK Normal - Stormcry only" since I'm halfway through upgrading Twistshard but I know what I'm doing.

On the other hand, in instance matching - there are people that go in with no or odd crystals and somehow do no damage and one boss can take 20 minutes that takes other groups 5 minutes. It's frustrating and runs like that result in failure, so I can see not wanting to deal with parties that bad.



That's my position too. Videos and guides CAN help. But they are not a full replacement for actual experience. My first run of demokron factory, I watched a video at least 20 times before even trying it. When I got there through IM, I knew what to do, but executing it took a bit of getting used to. Also, in a video, ALL of the party knows what to do. They don't prepare you for derps where only YOU know what to do.... I ended up having to tank the last boss....... as a Ninja. <.< Fun times.
My recommendation follow the expert guy. did Velik hold. Red refugee , ruinous manor mr Lilith lache etc in yolo runs , zero videos zero fenshui , and never wipe or die like newbie, I,ve witnesses people that died 15 times on the first boss yeah 15 times in a row .

Wanna hear the reason , easy, crystals. And no crystal blind . Event as newbie you can complete the dugen. But people insist going without crystals the whole time.

Remember crystals
TERA PC - General Discussion#16 Nopi10/17/2018, 09:51 PM
Gatokatzen wrote: »
My recommendation follow the expert guy. did Velik hold. Red refugee , ruinous manor mr Lilith lache etc in yolo runs , zero videos zero fenshui , and never wipe or die like newbie, I,ve witnesses people that died 15 times on the first boss yeah 15 times in a row .

Wanna hear the reason , easy, crystals. And no crystal blind . Event as newbie you can complete the dugen. But people insist going without crystals the whole time.

Remember crystals

Crystals help, but they don't fix stupid. As in, those who fight standing on dot puddles and never doing any evade on mechs. Or those glorious gems who DPS from the front, with front crit crystals and all that......
Nopi wrote: »
Gatokatzen wrote: »
My recommendation follow the expert guy. did Velik hold. Red refugee , ruinous manor mr Lilith lache etc in yolo runs , zero videos zero fenshui , and never wipe or die like newbie, I,ve witnesses people that died 15 times on the first boss yeah 15 times in a row .

Wanna hear the reason , easy, crystals. And no crystal blind . Event as newbie you can complete the dugen. But people insist going without crystals the whole time.

Remember crystals

Crystals help, but they don't fix stupid. As in, those who fight standing on dot puddles and never doing any evade on mechs. Or those glorious gems who DPS from the front, with front crit crystals and all that......

The only tutorial for boss mechanics on this game is the tuwangi dance. Guardian mission xd. But people abandon it since flying guardian mission arrives.

We need a tutorial dance only dugen with all wipe mechs avalaible .
Might helps
Let us know your ign if you do decide to come back on Velika server
I'm telling you, this game needs a "Practice" or "Easy" mode, kinda like KC.

But make the bosses faster to match Normal mode, but reduce the damage output of those bosses.
Dying more than 2 times to same exact thing just shows incapability of learning
TERA PC - General Discussion#21 feminzii10/17/2018, 11:36 PM
Digivolve wrote: »
Dying more than 2 times to same exact thing just shows incapability of learning

that's completely bull [filtered]
feminzii wrote: »
Digivolve wrote: »
Dying more than 2 times to same exact thing just shows incapability of learning

that's completely bull [filtered]

Yes, of course. In a region that is last to get content, video and doc guides to hold your hand before you even go in, repetitive floor warming is proof that one can't be bothered, don't have any self-respect to take 5 to 10 minutes of their time to look up a dungeon before they go in, to make it easier on everyone.

Of course practical experience is different than theoretical. Even so, in 439 dungeons where bosses move in slow motion, extremely predictable and repetitive patterns.... or wait - it actually occurred to me that there are players who do not realize bosses work through scripted rotations and don't just do whatever they want. That's like the basics of MMO gameplay. Every lethal attack/mechanic has a giant wind-up before it, and if you're telling me that failing to even see it coming, much less dodge it, repeatedly, is normal.... *that's completely bull [filtered]*
Digivolve wrote: »
Dying more than 2 times to same exact thing just shows incapability of learning

That's so silly. Dying three times to a mechanic doesn't mean the person will never learn it. Plenty of people die more than that and get the hang of it eventually.
"The game is like chess my friends. Every time we are defeated, we learn something"

That's a quote from a great brawler main from Fey Forest, bless his soul.
TERA PC - General Discussion#25 Melyodis10/18/2018, 01:30 AM
Digivolve wrote: »
feminzii wrote: »
Digivolve wrote: »
Dying more than 2 times to same exact thing just shows incapability of learning

that's completely bull [filtered]

Yes, of course. In a region that is last to get content, video and doc guides to hold your hand before you even go in, repetitive floor warming is proof that one can't be bothered, don't have any self-respect to take 5 to 10 minutes of their time to look up a dungeon before they go in, to make it easier on everyone.

Of course practical experience is different than theoretical. Even so, in 439 dungeons where bosses move in slow motion, extremely predictable and repetitive patterns.... or wait - it actually occurred to me that there are players who do not realize bosses work through scripted rotations and don't just do whatever they want. That's like the basics of MMO gameplay. Every lethal attack/mechanic has a giant wind-up before it, and if you're telling me that failing to even see it coming, much less dodge it, repeatedly, is normal.... *that's completely bull [filtered]*

I totally agree, many players are lazy to learn. Their are dungeon guides for a reason if their won't any this would be a different story but many players don't want to take advantage of whats available to them.
Digivolve wrote: »
feminzii wrote: »
Digivolve wrote: »
Dying more than 2 times to same exact thing just shows incapability of learning

that's completely bull [filtered]

Yes, of course. In a region that is last to get content, video and doc guides to hold your hand before you even go in, repetitive floor warming is proof that one can't be bothered, don't have any self-respect to take 5 to 10 minutes of their time to look up a dungeon before they go in, to make it easier on everyone.

Of course practical experience is different than theoretical. Even so, in 439 dungeons where bosses move in slow motion, extremely predictable and repetitive patterns.... or wait - it actually occurred to me that there are players who do not realize bosses work through scripted rotations and don't just do whatever they want. That's like the basics of MMO gameplay. Every lethal attack/mechanic has a giant wind-up before it, and if you're telling me that failing to even see it coming, much less dodge it, repeatedly, is normal.... *that's completely bull [filtered]*

It's a big pill to swallow but its true.
In all the difficulty this person has had playing tera they havent learned a single thing. Theyre obviously completely unwilling to learn they just want to be angry, just read their post.
TERA PC - General Discussion#27 KanaSnow10/18/2018, 01:56 AM
Then there are people who learn at different speeds, some catch on quicker than others.
You can't just write off those who fumble those few times because yes eventually they will get it.

Guides do help, but those don't always do the job unless you're in the dungeon watching everything yourself.
I tend to get extreme anxiety and read mechanics wrong. In in the end I do get it done even if I do die 10 times.
TERA PC - General Discussion#28 Euroko10/18/2018, 03:19 AM
I think the only mech I've ever died to more than twice in a 439 was rknm's sbomb.
and maybe that'd be different if I wasn't in top gear, but like... the amount of people not willing to learn mechanics pales in comparison to players that actively try to get better. Tera isn't a hard game, but people have become so lazy in this game as of lately, that players are even less willing to learn compared to 3 years ago, and that honestly just pushed the elitist players to get overly frustrated with the general low end players. it's not most of the top tier players won't help people learn if effort is seen. It's just that seeing effort from someone that isn't already at least frostmetal+ in gear is frankly rare.
I understand both sides of this, but the real issue is the amount of effort from the "casual" players isn't enough to drive us to help you.
Melyodis wrote: »
Digivolve wrote: »
feminzii wrote: »
Digivolve wrote: »
Dying more than 2 times to same exact thing just shows incapability of learning

that's completely bull [filtered]

Yes, of course. In a region that is last to get content, video and doc guides to hold your hand before you even go in, repetitive floor warming is proof that one can't be bothered, don't have any self-respect to take 5 to 10 minutes of their time to look up a dungeon before they go in, to make it easier on everyone.

Of course practical experience is different than theoretical. Even so, in 439 dungeons where bosses move in slow motion, extremely predictable and repetitive patterns.... or wait - it actually occurred to me that there are players who do not realize bosses work through scripted rotations and don't just do whatever they want. That's like the basics of MMO gameplay. Every lethal attack/mechanic has a giant wind-up before it, and if you're telling me that failing to even see it coming, much less dodge it, repeatedly, is normal.... *that's completely bull [filtered]*

I totally agree, many players are lazy to learn. Their are dungeon guides for a reason if their won't any this would be a different story but many players don't want to take advantage of whats available to them.

And this attitude toward mistakes is why I am so reluctant to try harder stuff. Because I die. A LOT. Before I learn. Average deaths to lachelith? I lost count. Still can't see the cues for AANM's last boss to know which way to iframe the spin. I know the mech, I care. Believe me I care. I watch vids. I study. I read guides. And 6 months ago it was RKNM doing this to me.

But now I can fight lachelith. And RK9. And I can do HH with only the occasional fail. I want to try more--but I hate feeling like I'm ruining everyone's day by being in the party. And I hate that people think I am ruining said day because I don't care, am lazy and otherwise not trying.

It's almost like some people are so inherently skilled, they literally cannot imagine that people exist at lower ability levels. They assume that their reflexes and game ability are average, when in fact they may be way above average.

It may take me 30 runs of a new (to me) mech before I get it. I may know exactly what to do, and be unable to make it happen for 28 more runs.

But it isn't because I don't care.

(But that also doesn't mean anyone is obligated to run with me.)
Western culture ie. it's your culture. learn to live with it i guess .. unless you find a good guild ?
I think it's also worth noting that the dungeons today are a lot more "mechanic heavy" than the ones in the past used to be.

That doesn't exactly mean they're harder; because the dungeons in the past were nice and difficult without being too heavy on mechanics. Like, AAHM and SCHM were harder than what's out there today, but not because of mechanics. I didn't need any guide to figure those out.

What it does mean is that it's a little tricker to learn these new dungeons the first time going in. That, on top of the fact that these players are still trying to learn how to play their class, too. I just feel like it's really dismissive to go and say "Oh, I never died more than twice to anything in a 439 so no one else should" as someone who went in for the first time probably way overgeared for it and after already having played the game for years to know the patterns of a lot of these bosses which are reskins of things you've experienced before.

I think elitism is completely fine in LFG, if you want to do your runs quickly and get them over with, that's totally understandable. But I feel like anyone trying to instance match a dungeon should be prepared to have at least a LITTLE bit of patience. IMS should be the safe haven for people to learn.
TERA PC - General Discussion#32 Nopi10/18/2018, 07:02 AM
Catservant wrote: »
Melyodis wrote: »
Digivolve wrote: »
feminzii wrote: »
Digivolve wrote: »
Dying more than 2 times to same exact thing just shows incapability of learning

that's completely bull [filtered]

Yes, of course. In a region that is last to get content, video and doc guides to hold your hand before you even go in, repetitive floor warming is proof that one can't be bothered, don't have any self-respect to take 5 to 10 minutes of their time to look up a dungeon before they go in, to make it easier on everyone.

Of course practical experience is different than theoretical. Even so, in 439 dungeons where bosses move in slow motion, extremely predictable and repetitive patterns.... or wait - it actually occurred to me that there are players who do not realize bosses work through scripted rotations and don't just do whatever they want. That's like the basics of MMO gameplay. Every lethal attack/mechanic has a giant wind-up before it, and if you're telling me that failing to even see it coming, much less dodge it, repeatedly, is normal.... *that's completely bull [filtered]*

I totally agree, many players are lazy to learn. Their are dungeon guides for a reason if their won't any this would be a different story but many players don't want to take advantage of whats available to them.

And this attitude toward mistakes is why I am so reluctant to try harder stuff. Because I die. A LOT. Before I learn. Average deaths to lachelith? I lost count. Still can't see the cues for AANM's last boss to know which way to iframe the spin. I know the mech, I care. Believe me I care. I watch vids. I study. I read guides. And 6 months ago it was RKNM doing this to me.

But now I can fight lachelith. And RK9. And I can do HH with only the occasional fail. I want to try more--but I hate feeling like I'm ruining everyone's day by being in the party. And I hate that people think I am ruining said day because I don't care, am lazy and otherwise not trying.

It's almost like some people are so inherently skilled, they literally cannot imagine that people exist at lower ability levels. They assume that their reflexes and game ability are average, when in fact they may be way above average.

It may take me 30 runs of a new (to me) mech before I get it. I may know exactly what to do, and be unable to make it happen for 28 more runs.

But it isn't because I don't care.

(But that also doesn't mean anyone is obligated to run with me.)

I usually tell people that not everyone has the same innate skill level. Not the same amount of natural talent. Some will learn these things ultra fast and claim they are easy. While others will find them ridiculously hard.

So yeah. People usually don't measure or stop to think about gaps in natural talent for gaming. Back then when gaming was new and limited to 8-16 bit consoles, not everyone was into it. So usually those doing it were either close in skill level or rapidly practicing to get there. Now, gaming is much more wide spread and more people with varying amounts of skill try their hand at it. So it's natural to see the gap between players opening more and more.
if its any consolation i would be cool with running with you, and lol for shield even in IM I try not to kick people from them in RKNM, the last time i ran with people, me and one other broke the shield each time when I was using my zerk and a mystic as healer (the others were learning and were dead during shield phase a lot), so I don't think you even need a full party for shield

a lot of people don't have patience, but it is just a game so it's better to have fun
TERA PC - General Discussion#34 ItzMirai10/18/2018, 09:04 AM
I feel like many of you are forgetting about the 'outside' factors besides that reading/watching guides is way different than experiencing things yourself in dungeons. Because then there's the ping factor, the pc specs factor, the natural skill level like some people mentioned above.
It's unfair to expect a person to know everything and not die at all when its their first times in a dungeon when even more experienced people die too sometimes.
Speaking from experience here because RKN back then dragged me through the dirt and so did RKE a bit after but now they're alright... AAN is still going to drag me because I havent had time to practice but eh :/
I just think it's important to state if you're new so people are at least ready to help you with calling out stuff and in general just be patient. You won't learn and get right a bunch of mechanics right out the bat even if you studied them beforehand.

The people who don't want to learn and just bash people are another breed, there's no point talking about because there's nothing we can do tbh...
This was just a thread to vent but i appreciate the responses both positive and negative.

For what its worth i explained in my OP tha
I DID read up on a guide (essential mana) numerous times

I DID tell each and ever party i was new and asked for patience

I DID learn what was killing me and tried to adjust for example i did missiles in RK-9 perfectly on my second time seeing it onward

I dies to push > piston twice and never again, other stuff still killed me though

I died once on the last boss and they kicked me after the wipe.

I did everything im aware of that im supposed to do besides automatically knowing the fight.

But i digress , now that i am calmer and have had time to sort myself out and after reading the thread ,and certain comments, ive come to the conclusion Tera just isnt for me, i cant fit in with this crowd unlike ff14 or BnS.

Thanks for the positive responses and the negative ones too, puts things into perspective.

@CobaltDragon

Youre the only GM i know, if you get the time do you mind closing this thread? I feel like it should be closed soon. Just a feeling. Thank you.
Maybe this game has a bit too many requirements and new players definitely have a tough time as for example:

- do you have your etchings fixed?
- do you have your crystals fixed?
- do you have your glyphs fixed?
- did you even awaken your class?
- do you have proper rolls adequate for your class on your weapon and chest?
- have you tried to get your weapon at least to +0SC and your armor to +0FM before jumping into 439 dungeons?
- did you try to balance your crit/power according to your class?
- did you watch videos to try to understand the mechanics one dungeon at a time?
- have you given your share lately to the RNG God? He needs to be praised or else you will feel his wrath!

I might have forgotten a few things but those are kinda required ( i am not trying to be elitist but instead consider that having efficient DPS definitely helps with the boss mechanics ) besides the fact that i think that you need to learn one dungeon at a time and especially one boss at a time instead of jumping inside all of them and expecting so much.

Unfortunately, the so called normal 439 dungeons actually have quite a lot of mechanics that are simply overpowering for new players and the best thing to do is to take it one step at a time ( try to go inside a dungeon and learn boss by boss instead of rushing dungeons one after another ).
TERA PC - General Discussion#37 SoyKupo10/18/2018, 09:49 AM
You need more masochists like me to do content again and relish in the 4 hour RK trap runs. I should make a video out of that.
Maxmilian wrote: »
Digivolve wrote: »
feminzii wrote: »
Digivolve wrote: »
Dying more than 2 times to same exact thing just shows incapability of learning

that's completely bull [filtered]

Yes, of course. In a region that is last to get content, video and doc guides to hold your hand before you even go in, repetitive floor warming is proof that one can't be bothered, don't have any self-respect to take 5 to 10 minutes of their time to look up a dungeon before they go in, to make it easier on everyone.

Of course practical experience is different than theoretical. Even so, in 439 dungeons where bosses move in slow motion, extremely predictable and repetitive patterns.... or wait - it actually occurred to me that there are players who do not realize bosses work through scripted rotations and don't just do whatever they want. That's like the basics of MMO gameplay. Every lethal attack/mechanic has a giant wind-up before it, and if you're telling me that failing to even see it coming, much less dodge it, repeatedly, is normal.... *that's completely bull [filtered]*

It's a big pill to swallow but its true.
In all the difficulty this person has had playing tera they havent learned a single thing. Theyre obviously completely unwilling to learn they just want to be angry, just read their post.

Wait, the OP outright says that they want to try to learn the dungeons but you're saying they don't want to try and learn the dungeons?

What??
TERA PC - General Discussion#39 Nopi10/18/2018, 12:59 PM
Zubberfly wrote: »
This was just a thread to vent but i appreciate the responses both positive and negative.

For what its worth i explained in my OP tha
I DID read up on a guide (essential mana) numerous times

I DID tell each and ever party i was new and asked for patience

I DID learn what was killing me and tried to adjust for example i did missiles in RK-9 perfectly on my second time seeing it onward

I dies to push > piston twice and never again, other stuff still killed me though

I died once on the last boss and they kicked me after the wipe.

I did everything im aware of that im supposed to do besides automatically knowing the fight.

But i digress , now that i am calmer and have had time to sort myself out and after reading the thread ,and certain comments, ive come to the conclusion Tera just isnt for me, i cant fit in with this crowd unlike ff14 or BnS.

Thanks for the positive responses and the negative ones too, puts things into perspective.

@CobaltDragon

Youre the only GM i know, if you get the time do you mind closing this thread? I feel like it should be closed soon. Just a feeling. Thank you.

Sad, but you do realize the problem isn't Tera, but Western gaming mentality as a collective. So you will find this elitism and reluctance to help in many other games. While I won't pull numbers I don't have, a quite noticeable portion of the gamers at the top spots are people who care only about themselves and their glory. Another large noticeable portion just want to be carried and are very toxic towards anyone being as bad as them because they can't be carried and their weaknesses become apparent.

Anyway, have fun and try not to be stressed out by this. You will need as much patience when dealing with BnS, a game I know has become as toxic on it's end game as this one... or maybe worse.
@Zubberfly dear op, pls have patience with people, there are few very toxic people keep blaming other people even if they die, you as same stage as me, just new player try to learn higher up dungeon , so rigth now so far the hardest dg i can do is rk * in learning with aa nm( got people willing to carry and teach me today) . you know sir, there many helpfull people out here willing to teach new player, first of all, a tip for new player don't IM coz, just look for LFG, have patience and then just ask the leader, is it okey for me to try? i never done this dg before, such as like that. and i confident to tell you most of people (who aren't toxic) willing to help you carry if they got a good other member, heck i even remember running rk in learning time, there a really toxic healer, who when i die, he just ignore and continuous the fight, but then he himself die many time, and blaming other people for hes dead, so my pt all just kick him instead of me (who totally new af die many time) , they say it okey you in learning, that guys really toxic , and then we got new healer and when ever i die he ress me up. we fail like 4 time with toxic healer, and with new good healer we just clear it for first try. I just want to tell ya, usually the toxic one is the one who mess the pt , ^_^
Digivolve wrote: »
Dying more than 2 times to same exact thing just shows incapability of learning
welp, die 2 time from same mech show really noob? well guess what i just carry party many time on rm run rk run and others dg run by first die like 20 time in learning process

Hi, I'm sorry you experienced such amount of salt it seems like everyone thinks they were born skilled and forgot they were once newbies v_v
Most of Tera NA players refuse to accept that this is a game for fun, we don't have to get stressed irl and ingame, they refuse to believe that people don't always run the dungeons in their best mood cause life happens.
BUT.. There are many nice kind fun people don't let the salt get to you and don't let that be the reason to quit the game :3
If you are really done with NA then I recommend TERA EU :3 much more friendly and easier and cheaper gear wise and there's a way to get around the ping.
Also I'd be happy to help anytime :3 message Apple.Martini / Jelly.Cola on Velika Server, we will go dungeons and teach you and gear you and have fun :3/
WHAT DO WE SAY TO THE GODS OF SALT?
NOT TODAY :3x

What happen to me is worst,
i`ve been kicked from RRHM / AANM several times because i just new (in IM`s),
and other stupid reason on in, even i has lesser death.

( All my char was prety-well geared, because i`m always bussy with farming).

My opinion :
I think this games has serious impact in negative behavior of their players behavior and community,
because the game-play pushes their player to the limit for mechanism and reflexes.
By definition.., if they make dungeons in harder difficulties, players tend to be elitist, picky, and selective.
and THAT IS A FACT !!

In the matter of fact, dungeon like RRHM, AANM, was fully `Carryable`,
by definitions, you can still complete this dungeon perfectly even has 2 stupid people in party,
that because the bosses doesnt have mechanism that can make wipe entire party directly.

But.. thats it, veteran or experience people seem `DOESN`T HAVE OBLIGATIONS` to teach or carry people,
meanwhile there was several people in server that selling run for Veiltrocth or Elemental Essence.. funny isnt it?

Otherwise..
is not how every people `Describe` challenging in TERA, like runing highest difficulty dungeon with your static.
but the true challenging is.. How you can manage to help people..

Game developer seems not really paying detail attention about these aspects,
how the difficulty of dungeons impact to the player behavior, im not saying.. i want TERA to become easy to play,
but.. if you make difficult dungeons, and doesnt have `instrument` to make every players cooperate each others, and willing to help each others,
this what game-developer describe `as challenge`.. would be fail.
I think every difficulty of MMO should has limit, to break this tendency,

Or maybe we should pay more than 200 bucks every months to have some `fun`?
should we?

TERA PC - General Discussion#44 Cezzare10/19/2018, 12:32 AM
I'm among those who still have patience to explain things to new people in IMS. To be honest, if you queue for anything higher than 431 you need to keep in mind things can get messy very fast, and there will be a high chance you end up grouped with new players, after all, the people queueing for 439+ instances are either masochists (like myself), guildless players o people already recognized as "traps" by LFG groups in their servers.

I understand the need to vent these things out, but there's no immediate solution to how the player community interacts at the moment, I'm afraid new players need to be patient too and grow a thicker skin.

I still think level-entry dungeons should be a little more challenging, the true end game experience starts at lvl 65, there's no way to make leveling a worthwhile and educative experience about the game mechanics whithout making it last longer and, obviously, hidering people from making alts and buying stuff in the process.

While it's true that, for example, having someone with the "skilled" tag in all 439 dungeons doesn't really mean anything since you can get carried in those instances too, I would like to have some warranty that a player with a "skilled" tag in 412-431 dungs. will know at least how to dodge. You don't need to increase the boss's endurance or HP, simply increase their damage, overgeared players will still be more than capable to faceroll and new players will be forced to work a little in order to keep themselves alive.
SageWindu wrote: »
Maxmilian wrote: »
Digivolve wrote: »
feminzii wrote: »
Digivolve wrote: »
Dying more than 2 times to same exact thing just shows incapability of learning

that's completely bull [filtered]

Yes, of course. In a region that is last to get content, video and doc guides to hold your hand before you even go in, repetitive floor warming is proof that one can't be bothered, don't have any self-respect to take 5 to 10 minutes of their time to look up a dungeon before they go in, to make it easier on everyone.

Of course practical experience is different than theoretical. Even so, in 439 dungeons where bosses move in slow motion, extremely predictable and repetitive patterns.... or wait - it actually occurred to me that there are players who do not realize bosses work through scripted rotations and don't just do whatever they want. That's like the basics of MMO gameplay. Every lethal attack/mechanic has a giant wind-up before it, and if you're telling me that failing to even see it coming, much less dodge it, repeatedly, is normal.... *that's completely bull [filtered]*

It's a big pill to swallow but its true.
In all the difficulty this person has had playing tera they havent learned a single thing. Theyre obviously completely unwilling to learn they just want to be angry, just read their post.

Wait, the OP outright says that they want to try to learn the dungeons but you're saying they don't want to try and learn the dungeons?

What??

He complains about being in a dead guild and getting kicked constantly from IMS. He's not going to change anything about his behavior or how he approaches these situations, he'd rather bang his head against a brick wall and wonder why he is bleeding.
He hasnt learned a [filtered] thing.

If he had learned and adapted from his experiences, he would leave his dead guild btw nobody is forcing you to stay in a dead guild and stop trying to do 439's until he can get into a learning run, where people actually have patience. He's experienced that people in pugs dont have the patience for noobs, but he's going to keep spamming IMS and lfg anyway and complain that they dont have any patience.
> @Maxmilian said:
> SageWindu wrote: »
>
> Maxmilian wrote: »
>
> Digivolve wrote: »
>
> feminzii wrote: »
>
> Digivolve wrote: »
>
> Dying more than 2 times to same exact thing just shows incapability of learning
>
>
>
>
> that's completely bull [filtered]
>
>
>
>
> Yes, of course. In a region that is last to get content, video and doc guides to hold your hand before you even go in, repetitive floor warming is proof that one can't be bothered, don't have any self-respect to take 5 to 10 minutes of their time to look up a dungeon before they go in, to make it easier on everyone.
>
> Of course practical experience is different than theoretical. Even so, in 439 dungeons where bosses move in slow motion, extremely predictable and repetitive patterns.... or wait - it actually occurred to me that there are players who do not realize bosses work through scripted rotations and don't just do whatever they want. That's like the basics of MMO gameplay. Every lethal attack/mechanic has a giant wind-up before it, and if you're telling me that failing to even see it coming, much less dodge it, repeatedly, is normal.... *that's completely bull [filtered]*
>
>
>
>
> It's a big pill to swallow but its true.
> In all the difficulty this person has had playing tera they havent learned a single thing. Theyre obviously completely unwilling to learn they just want to be angry, just read their post.
>
>
>
>
> Wait, the OP outright says that they want to try to learn the dungeons but you're saying they don't want to try and learn the dungeons?
>
> What??
>
>
>
>
> He complains about being in a dead guild and getting kicked constantly from IMS. He's not going to change anything about his behavior or how he approaches these situations, he'd rather bang his head against a brick wall and wonder why he is bleeding.
> He hasnt learned a [filtered] thing.
>
> If he had learned and adapted from his experiences, he would leave his dead guild btw nobody is forcing you to stay in a dead guild and stop trying to do 439's until he can get into a learning run, where people actually have patience. He's experienced that people in pugs dont have the patience for noobs, but he's going to keep spamming IMS and lfg anyway and complain that they dont have any patience.

So we are just going to ignore the part of the post where they said getting into guilds requires an essay

Or the part where they said they waited hours to get lfg to fill and it wouldn't fill at all?
personal experience with ims when lfg is dead or friends not on.

dps queue 30 minute easily. 1/5 time I get into a run. 4/5 time I get into cross server sell run or something similar and get instant kicked. very scummy and I understand why they do it. But I queue so long just to get kicked and hurt my interest to queue agian.
TERA PC - General Discussion#48 Christin10/19/2018, 10:55 AM
Hence the reason why most people find something better to play. The ones that offer to help you will never be on when you are on, but the arrogant pricks will always be on when you are on.

It doesn't matter much anyway, because if you do ever learn the dungeons, you'll eventually get sick of having to deal with new players and constantly have to teach them. That's just the way it goes. Most of the people that are rude and kick have been playing too long and are tired of having to constantly teach new players. However, they are too stupid to realize that nothing will change and don't seem interested in finding a better game. Hence why they are always so bitter and rude.

Your only hope is to find an active guild and make friends. If you cant' do that, your best bet is to move on.
TERA PC - General Discussion#49 Cyborq10/19/2018, 11:14 AM
I enjoy IM'ing for the dungeons I have become to be able to do almost blindly and teaching random newbies the ropes.
I usually heal, and I find being the healer while teaching and keeping folks up is the best way to go.
Although I don't know how to tank, I love getting fresh tanks in the easier dungeons (TRNM, LKNM etc.~) or a bit harder ones I know well.

I used to do learning runs as well, and have spent hours with nothing but newbies trying to learn dungeons and get mats from them.
Love it. Even if a run takes 5 times longer than it can take with experienced players.

Just got back to the game now though after a break, and am getting used to the new skills (apex stuff) and the UI, and just playing the game again in general.
I'm on the PVE server if anyone would be interested in learning runs, granted I know the dungeon.
I don't know them all, haven't even tried all the new ones yet. X_X
TERA PC - General Discussion#50 Nanahira10/19/2018, 01:23 PM
I feel like this kind of issues would be fixed by simply making the LFG not based on 1 server but every servers of the same region, changing the limit of 2 entry per day of a donjon to -> being allowed to rolls on every loots 2 times per day (you can roll and take every loots you want for 2 runs per day) and you can still enter as much of you want at the same day ,so even more players might join lfg training

Ofc i didnt say every details of my "solution" , just the general idea
Reflexes are thing in this game. And reflexes are not equal to anyone, neither eye to hand coordination, neither pattern recognition or pattern memorizing. So, the game naturally discriminates between people that have these things naturally and those who don't. This is besides all the other things that you can learn by cognition, like crystals, rotations, items, levels, critical, etc.

It does not surprises me seeing new games with tab target system instead of action combat.

TERA PC - General Discussion#52 Cyborq10/19/2018, 01:31 PM
Some people enjoy running dungeons with people that don't know all the mechanics and don't have the best gear or the optimal skill rotations on par.

And then are some, I think a lot of people, that don't. They just want to min/max everything and do the runs with as much rush and DPS as possible.

And both are fine.

The issue I find with the former group is how few there are in it and the problem with the latter one is how salty and rude those people tend to be.
Not everyone, but it shines through when they are.

Then there's a rainbow of people there in between.
I am sorry, and this goes for any mmo that has been out for quite some time, and you are now jumping in.

There are basics everyone needs to know/have. The correct gear, setup etc. One must know their class BEFORE reaching max lvl. Not when your reach max and try to learn your class.

Also one must do their due diligence and read up, watch vids etc.

You're allowed to die your first few runs. But if you can't pick it by then, then the dungeon isnt for you. Try another.

Thts the reality, its not elitist, its being real and respectful to other players. Everyone has a tolerance to noobs, but to a point. When people see other people not even knowing their skills, how to dodge the easiest of skills, dpsin from the front, healers up a bosses [filtered] etc...its your right as the other player to get pissed and cuss them till they cry, rage quit or uninstall.
JohnRees69 wrote: »
There are basics everyone needs to know/have. The correct gear, setup etc. One must know their class BEFORE reaching max lvl. Not when your reach max and try to learn your class.

Not really.. some classes will get a skill that completely changes their gameplay at 65. Or even at apex a class might become entirely different. There is much to learn even after hitting 65.
Looking at the fact that they claimed they were hitting BS and Lotw leads me to believe they are on apex ninja and atm even the ninja discord is still mathing out how to play it.
> @JohnRees69 said:
> I am sorry, and this goes for any mmo that has been out for quite some time, and you are now jumping in.
>
> There are basics everyone needs to know/have. The correct gear, setup etc. One must know their class BEFORE reaching max lvl. Not when your reach max and try to learn your class.
>
> Also one must do their due diligence and read up, watch vids etc.
>

They said they did that, and im sure anyone here knows that videod/written guides arent always enough. Some players need extensive training in the fight to know it, from my experience a few of these players become neigh unkillable after the fact, not everyone can read a guide die under a certain threshhold.

Theres a huge difference between just standing around and getting hit and paying attention to the wrong visuals and getting hit.
TERA PC - General Discussion#57 Nopi10/19/2018, 07:00 PM
dmaxcustom wrote: »
Reflexes are thing in this game. And reflexes are not equal to anyone, neither eye to hand coordination, neither pattern recognition or pattern memorizing. So, the game naturally discriminates between people that have these things naturally and those who don't. This is besides all the other things that you can learn by cognition, like crystals, rotations, items, levels, critical, etc.

It does not surprises me seeing new games with tab target system instead of action combat.

While this is true for the first few times, this holds much more true in the long run for pvp, where player characters can act unexpectedly. In dungeons however, monsters and bosses are tied to patterns and mechanics that people can start remembering over time. So when you learn and remember those, even some (or most) slower reacting players could just use plain memory to make up for lack of hand eye coordination and slow reaction speeds. NOW on the other hand, people on the lower talent levels will still find it hard to adapt to the highest level stuff. And won't even add people with age and health problems to the mix (me and my headaches included)... In the end it may be about how much slower players can commit to memory and how fast they can process all of it in comparison with a talented player.

Also, it is my belief that tab target games are not based on a limitation, but on a play style. Not all people who like them are limited if they pick up a full real time combat game. I mean, turn based RPGs still exist as well.
JohnRees69 wrote: »
I am sorry, and this goes for any mmo that has been out for quite some time, and you are now jumping in.

There are basics everyone needs to know/have. The correct gear, setup etc. One must know their class BEFORE reaching max lvl. Not when your reach max and try to learn your class.

Also one must do their due diligence and read up, watch vids etc.

You're allowed to die your first few runs. But if you can't pick it by then, then the dungeon isnt for you. Try another.

Thts the reality, its not elitist, its being real and respectful to other players. Everyone has a tolerance to noobs, but to a point. When people see other people not even knowing their skills, how to dodge the easiest of skills, dpsin from the front, healers up a bosses [filtered] etc...its your right as the other player to get pissed and cuss them till they cry, rage quit or uninstall.

I used to believe the part about learning a class before max level as well, but since a character gets all it's skills usually at 65 (and beyond with apex now), every time a character gets a new skill would then be a time for the player to sit back and learn. For some this may be bothersome. So they usually will just rush everything up till max and start learning there. And through stuff like the Kumas BG granting the single best experience boosts, players don't even need to touch their characters until max level.

NOW, you are right in the part about knowing basic gameplay etiquette regardless of character skills. A DPS player should hear the phrase "DPS attacks from the back" only once, and commit it to hard memory. Same with basic stuff like "don't stand on DoT puddles".
The system of IMS and LFG in game.

When you go for 439 up i suggest you better to find good ppl to learn those DG cos most of it has a wipe Mechanics. Once you became expert on that kind of dg you can que IMS and join LFG.

I understand why old players kicked new ones cos they dont want to waste their time wiping back and fort. And if you played last 2 months were the merge happend theres alot for LFG's that took 2 to 3 pages that you can choose any of them and there's also Learning runs. But sadly due to the issue of DMCA ppl left and went to EU and now LFG is like 3 sometimes 0.

I suggest find a Guild where ppl there are friendly and ask them for learning runs, and don't stick yourself on a dead guild cos it's dead.



Cyborq wrote: »
Some people enjoy running dungeons with people that don't know all the mechanics and don't have the best gear or the optimal skill rotations on par.

And then are some, I think a lot of people, that don't. They just want to min/max everything and do the runs with as much rush and DPS as possible.

And both are fine.

The issue I find with the former group is how few there are in it and the problem with the latter one is how salty and rude those people tend to be.
Not everyone, but it shines through when they are.

Then there's a rainbow of people there in between.

Wow. This is just beautiful. Brought a tear to my salty eye.
TERA PC - General Discussion#60 Nopi10/20/2018, 02:39 PM
Maxmilian wrote: »
Cyborq wrote: »
Some people enjoy running dungeons with people that don't know all the mechanics and don't have the best gear or the optimal skill rotations on par.

And then are some, I think a lot of people, that don't. They just want to min/max everything and do the runs with as much rush and DPS as possible.

And both are fine.

The issue I find with the former group is how few there are in it and the problem with the latter one is how salty and rude those people tend to be.
Not everyone, but it shines through when they are.

Then there's a rainbow of people there in between.

Wow. This is just beautiful. Brought a tear to my salty eye.

Well, I can't speak of numbers, but what he said is pretty much spot on indeed. And you will find all of these kinds on IM every day..... whenever IM pops up for you, that is. I tried some IM two days ago and even getting into previously quick match 412 dungeons was a more than half an hour thing, even on the more populated hours. So gtting kicked or abandoned after half an hour of waiting may be vexing. For now, only 3 person instances are matching quickly. Guess we need more of those around.
Nopi wrote: »
I tried some IM two days ago and even getting into previously quick match 412 dungeons was a more than half an hour thing, even on the more populated hours.

I really try not to be one of those people; but this doesnt happen to me. My guild is really active and when im not on my priest and IM takes too long, i just say something and can get a group going.

Guilds are for 1 thing in mmos; to make the game easier. If your guild isnt making your game easier in one way or another, leave the guild because theyre just a few stats and an icon over your head at that point.
Yea...
Dont do 439 stuff with fm+0...
In case u didnt realize it.. those '439 stuff' also include 'hard mode' dungeons.
That pretty much tells u that if u wanna spam dg training, u will need the extra def to stay alive a lil bit longer.
What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?
@KitTeaCup

This will a bit of a read; i implore you to read.

Unfortunately due to the way Tera is designed, and the american mmo player mindset, where extensive pressure is placed on new players to either be there for when the new content is out or read/watch a guide x infinity and adjust faster than the players who did it day one.

This is of course not unique to Tera itself but the american/western mindset of personal performance over the groups which is the notable and observable opposite of eastern players by comparison.

What i speak of is from experience, from playing ff14 (mmo) on both western and eastern data centers (server holders) the difference in community and attitude is utterly staggering for the most part (sans uncommon outliers)

Mostly, not always of course, eastern players generally use 1 to 2 methods of completing content (vs western MANY different methods generally causing players to immediately need to adjust to that groups strategy over using 1 eclipsing method or it creates arguments) but 1 thing that remains the same is their willingness to put the group before themselves, to stay and help and raise each other up.

You see this in practice as their LFG is used for practice and their Duty Finder (Instance match making) is used soley for clearing never practicing

The same concept applies to Vindictus/Warframe (china)/Soul Worker etc etc

The western trial by fire, fly or fall and ,unfortunately, use both LFG and IM for practice if the guild/population for practice runs is thin to none as TC mentioned.

Youll have players like TC waiting in LFG for hours and it never filling (due to.low population and lack of wanting to teach)

BUT ALSO due to Teras LIMITED ENTRY PER DAY causing failed learning runs to also consume the players 1 (or 2 if elite) entries per day

The player in question must now be ready to give up the potential gains from the run, stall their own progress (going against the western mindset) and be ready to buckle down and teach which again each players time/patience is limited to an arbitrary number.

There isnt really a way to prevent this unless you either due 1 or more of 3 things other mmos have succeeded in doing

Option 1: Reward the Teachers

New player completion bonus:

-What this is is a bonus reward for every skilled (5 completions) player that assists this unskilled (less than 5 completiona) which is usually, in context to Tera, hefty bonus talents (gold/silver) and Gold

-The effect is people are more willing to tough it out and teach to get the reward that will benefit everyone, the skilled gain the bonus, the unskilled gain the experience to complete.

Option 2: Dungeon run change

-Remove or change the dungeon entry design, instead of on boss pull = dungeon run used, only upon killing the last boss is the run "used".

-To avoid exploitation take all the rewards from the 1st and 2nd boss and put it all on the final boss so as to not force players to be unable to exploit the change to dungeons

Option 3: Absolvement of Faults

-New players (unskilled) will gain a tremendous defensive buff to assist in learning the runs (on top of unlimited gold rezzes) as Tera has NUMEROUS ways to annihilate a new player, a new player aware of thus buff will get hit by something and notice that if the buff wasnt there theyd have died.

This buff is removed upon 5 successful completions of the dungeon where the new player in question must be ALIVE at the end to count as a clear. (To avoid exploitation the bonus reward can only be doles out 5 times total per character)

Other than those unlikely changes there isnt really a way to avoid this, it happens more often than one would think, some players will offer to teach and do learning runs but many many more will not assist new players or kick them/leave/disband (all of which tc has experienced) before even pulling the 1st boss.

This creates an extreme reliance of the finicky nature of LFG and guilds which are never a guarantee and many times will leave new players to their own devices instead of assisting them.

The hit to the NA population is also not really helping the situation at all either, some players will tell you its the new players fault for not learning faster or reading guides more or jumping guilds more

But when a new player (such as TC in example) do everything players tell them to

-make learning LFG (that apparently never filled)

-read guides (that dont teach the muscle memory unique to each class or the subtle nuances that classes can use to dodge mechanics or maintain dps)

-applied to guilds and they (lets be honest the ones that look like they do have the highest possibility of not only being populated but also new player friendly) DO at times require some form of the obnoxious question: "so what can you do for our company and why should we hire YOU?"

And even when this new players hits FM and awakens their class (judging by TCs "fumbling nostrum while hitting LotW - BS which is unique to ninja awakening) players will come down on that new player telling them they shouldve tried harder

Or as youve seen if you read the thread; players wont even READ what the new player is saying and proceed to attack/spread misinformation or rhetoric that may not apply to TC at all

Thus you have the situation in queation. A community thatll sooner hang a new player than assist them.

Tera Design + Western mindset + Current population = problem.
Velika runs learning runs all the time. Not sure about PvP server.
KitTeaCup wrote: »
What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?

@KitTeaCup
Get in touch with the people who run Essential Mana, and entice them to write updated guides for you, possibly feature them in a blog post or on stream. They have a discord so its extremely easy to get in touch with the writers.

Do learning runs for low level dungeons on twitch and alternate POV between tanking, healing and dps.
Healer POV is usually the easiest to teach on since you are just watching the tank and dps do their things anyway.

You need to not be dying or just idly walking around like you do in most streams so if you cant do it, give the POV to someone else. Have someone who is skilled in high level dungeons come in and do in depth shot calling runs of the introductory 431's and up.
And by skilled, i mean people who dont need to be told their rotation is wrong at the end of the run
Have someone come in and explain what enrage is and what it looks like, what deadly boss debuffs look like when theyre on you, what crystals are needed on who, buffs that should be used pre fight (nostrums prime solution etc), things that noobs wouldnt know unless someone told them.

We need in depth breakdowns of dungeons and mechanics that are sponsored and distributed by eme. The videos could be lifted from twitch and even edited and put on an eme official youtube channel. Touch bases with the real top tier players of Tera, not just gear carried weak sauce.
Twitch is a tool that could be used for more than just mindless bumbling for 2 and a half hours.
TERA PC - General Discussion#67 Nopi10/23/2018, 01:43 PM
@KitTeaCup
I'd say that looking for ways to make the pros feel they are not wasting their time on newbies would be a good start. One option would be to throw actual learning run dungeons. These do the exact same as their regular counterpart, but they give no expensive rewards (maybe just pots and some pocket change gold), but they also do not consume your tries per day, so anyone can enter and practice them to their heart's content. A pro could do all their daily stuff, then hang back running with newbies.

Another thing, we can get registered mentors who need to keep their mentor status monthly through the new commend system. This way, players will know the mentors they see are active. Give these players mentor related perks, like small boosts in combat when playing in a dungeon with unskilled players.

I don't agree with making dungeons easier to newbies. As in, if there are one shot mechs, these should apply to everyone. Maybe, use screen filling messages and stronger visual cues to alert people when they are in danger, like a notice when standing in DoT puddles or a notice with a prompt for an i-frame skill when an impeding hard attack is about ti launch, like BnS does on normal difficulty dungeons. These things can then be made editable when skilled in the dungeon, through a small "use danger messages" check box when queuing or a "use danger messages for skilled dungeons" in options.

These are just a few ideas that come to my mind to tr and help connecting pros with newbies. Since this is one of the most important things the game needs right now.
KitTeaCup wrote: »
What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?

Is it possible to make some sort of Practice voucher that allows people to do a low-risk version of the dungeon but with greatly diminished (or no) rewards - e.g. only 1 talent and like 10 gear XP? Put them in the Vanguard shop like with those scrolls that give access to Ghilieglade. The people who want to learn the dungeon can do so comfortably while also giving incentive to try the normal version thanks to the massive downgrade in rewards (or complete lack thereof). The people looking to speedrun will now have a larger pool of players to pick from and can get more jollies faster. Everyone's happy.

Mind, I'm not talking about something like Kalivan's Challenge. I mean something more akin to the "Human" and "Demon Hunter" difficulties in the Devil May Cry games (enemy layout and attacks are the same, but you take less damage in Human mode).

Failing that, I agree with @Jezzeusagi in that the entry system either needs to be reworked or removed. And with the current reset scrolls, just spamming those isn't an option (though to be fair, I still have nightmares about my own escapades with those back in the Crusades, but I digress).
TERA PC - General Discussion#69 Cezzare10/23/2018, 06:56 PM
KitTeaCup wrote: »
What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?

Enhanced mentoring systems, as many here suggested, might a be good approach. The idea of moving the dungeon loot to the last boss and having the daily entries to be consumed only after the last boss dies sounds interesting too. Also opening loot-less versions of some of the hard mode dungeons, with no daily entry limits, could be useful for learning.

Of course, the above suggestions might need implementation from BHS, but on EME's side maybe streaming "turorial runs" is a good option. You could also add rewards fot the friendship system.

In general, having basic guides about classes and dungeons in the game's site and spamming the links in social media from time to time could help in the long run, of course, the staff would need to compromise and keep them updated as much as possible.
@KitTeaCup and anyone else

I just thought of something else.

So, when the Blazblue series of fighting games first released, the limited edition included a DVD put together by top players that gave in-depth analyses of the characters, replete with pros, cons, combos, and various tricks that could give one an advantage in matches. Could you and the other managers try to see if you can have some players create similar videos but pertaining to TERA and its various intricacies? Here a few ideas that I can think of for the various people to put in their videos (assuming these don't exist already):

- Class analyses, further broken down by race (if anyone cares about that)
- dungeon description and analysis with enemy skill demonstrations that show wind-up, on-hit results, and how to avoid specific attacks
- advanced tactics including class synergy and party makeups
- and so on

Yes, there is Essential Mana, but not everyone benefits from those type of guides (not to mention some of the information doesn't benefit "younger" players). For the more visual and audio learners, videos like this may be a great help and might even alleviate the current dichotomy between "hardcore" and "casual" players. The casual players get more and better aid, the hardcore players eventually have more people that know what the hell they're doing.

Thoughts?
TERA PC - General Discussion#71 Xristosx10/23/2018, 08:55 PM
SageWindu wrote: »

Yes, there is Essential Mana, but not everyone benefits from those type of guides (not to mention some of the information doesn't benefit "younger" players). For the more visual and audio learners, videos like this may be a great help and might even alleviate the current dichotomy between "hardcore" and "casual" players. The casual players get more and better aid, the hardcore players eventually have more people that know what the hell they're doing.

Essential mana does do visual stuff, most decent guides on there have visual pictures, gifs and videos of attacks bosses do with explanations of the mechanic as well. so i'm not sure what you mean.
TERA PC - General Discussion#72 Swimmys10/23/2018, 10:22 PM
@KitTeaCup

I think one of the biggest issues with the current state of game for this scenario is that the learning curve for the game is pretty steep. From lvl 1-64 its like a walk in the park and then once you hit 65 the difficulty for newer players is exponential. When leveling people are not aware really of what an i-frame is because they simply don't need to, nothing 1 shots you in early dungeons.

Secondly would be avatar weapons are constructive for older players to level up quickly but destructive to newer players on the long run because of the skewed perception of dmg and/or crits in the game. You can get by with doing any sort of "rotation" with an avatar weapon since there is no "dps check" or any sort of balancing. Introduction to crystals are also pretty poorly done. You just open a box and tah-dah! free xtals you slap on without actually taking a look at what is right or wrong. Theres also no reference to know whether or not the player is doing well or poorly throughout their entire time fighting.

The game also has no tutorial for glyphs either. Everyone can click that recommended button but do people know about master glyphs or uncommon glyphs? Is the recommended button even optimal for said class? The way that new people learn the game is simply they spam dungeons with their fancy glowing avatar weapons hitting the boss in any direction from front, side to the back sometimes, healers spam healing because there is no real introduction to debuffing the boss. Or the new players spam kumas and get massive amounts of exp and are left more clueless because they got more skills and less time actually applying them.

Then at the end of the day people come to the mindset that gear is the key to being "good" which is a mixed bag. Sure higher gear is higher perception of you knowing what you are doing. But there is no amount of gear that can save players from 1 shot mechanics or older players from flaming when they never got to learn the foundation at the start.
SageWindu wrote: »
@KitTeaCup and anyone else

I just thought of something else.

So, when the Blazblue series of fighting games first released, the limited edition included a DVD put together by top players that gave in-depth analyses of the characters, replete with pros, cons, combos, and various tricks that could give one an advantage in matches. Could you and the other managers try to see if you can have some players create similar videos but pertaining to TERA and its various intricacies? Here a few ideas that I can think of for the various people to put in their videos (assuming these don't exist already):

- Class analyses, further broken down by race (if anyone cares about that)
- dungeon description and analysis with enemy skill demonstrations that show wind-up, on-hit results, and how to avoid specific attacks
- advanced tactics including class synergy and party makeups
- and so on

Yes, there is Essential Mana, but not everyone benefits from those type of guides (not to mention some of the information doesn't benefit "younger" players). For the more visual and audio learners, videos like this may be a great help and might even alleviate the current dichotomy between "hardcore" and "casual" players. The casual players get more and better aid, the hardcore players eventually have more people that know what the hell they're doing.

Thoughts?
This is essentially a repost of what i said. Good idea though.
Xristosx wrote: »
SageWindu wrote: »

Yes, there is Essential Mana, but not everyone benefits from those type of guides (not to mention some of the information doesn't benefit "younger" players). For the more visual and audio learners, videos like this may be a great help and might even alleviate the current dichotomy between "hardcore" and "casual" players. The casual players get more and better aid, the hardcore players eventually have more people that know what the hell they're doing.

Essential mana does do visual stuff, most decent guides on there have visual pictures, gifs and videos of attacks bosses do with explanations of the mechanic as well. so i'm not sure what you mean.

A comprehensive "For Dummies" breakdown is what I mean. Freeze-frames, indicators, "good idea, bad idea" type stuff, the whole nine.

"This boss/class does this and it looks like this. Let's break it down." <-- That's what I mean.

You familiar with Versus Books at all? They make some of the best strategy guides in the market. I mean that sort of thing.
There is no such `friendly` for `learning run` in TERA, specialy in end-game content,
`certain` players would be forcing you to become `genius` by just run hardest dungeon in 5 runs.

This is a huge problem in MMO, when you make complex mechanism and high difficulties,
player would be tend to be `Elitist`.

Elitist = Is an `act` or `behavior` of players which is tend to be feel `superior` because have a better gear, better skills, better experience, better reflexes, or better in everything, in result they would become `picky` and `discrimination`.
(Elitist is an act or behavior, not amount of how high your gear or skills is).

And in TERA, we doesnt have `instrument` or `feature` to control this behaviors `anomaly` from certain players that tend to be `Elitist`.
lowering dungeon difficulty would be solution, but that is the risk.
KitTeaCup wrote: »
What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?

I hate to say this but make the game easier. This could be accomplished through a combination of reducing boss damage and making gearing easier.
XHGJW4LMY6 wrote: »
KitTeaCup wrote: »
What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?

I hate to say this but make the game easier. This could be accomplished through a combination of reducing boss damage and making gearing easier.

Reducing boss damage is dumb. They did that on tera console and it's not working out for them, is it now?
Training dungeons and other suggestions are a much better idea. Biggest problem is not damage, rather it's getting used to mechanics and certain unavoidable attacks, so if we were able to practice that beforehand it would be a lot of help.
XHGJW4LMY6 wrote: »
KitTeaCup wrote: »
What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?

I hate to say this but make the game easier. This could be accomplished through a combination of reducing boss damage and making gearing easier.

No
TERA PC - General Discussion#79 Cyborq10/24/2018, 10:46 AM
Maxmilian wrote: »
Cyborq wrote: »
Some people enjoy running dungeons with people that don't know all the mechanics and don't have the best gear or the optimal skill rotations on par.

And then are some, I think a lot of people, that don't. They just want to min/max everything and do the runs with as much rush and DPS as possible.

And both are fine.

The issue I find with the former group is how few there are in it and the problem with the latter one is how salty and rude those people tend to be.
Not everyone, but it shines through when they are.

Then there's a rainbow of people there in between.

Wow. This is just beautiful. Brought a tear to my salty eye.

It's just true.

I had a glorious SCNM run a day or two ago.
3 DPS that seemed to know the dungeon, and a tank that had never done it before... never even read a guide or watched videos.
I will start by saying.... yes. Not at least looking up the mechs and tutorial of the dungeon is a stupid move...
But the guy told us upfront and I was in a babysitting mood so I told them I'd do my best to carry the run.
Yes the tank would probably die a lot, and yes it would be annoying for the DPS and me, but we decided to try it all the same.

Heck, I had a blast. The guy was polite and sorry at the same time, and I just sent him hearts and "don't-sweat-it's" and told him to pay notice to the attacks.

We who knew the dungeon were nice enough to tell him the mechs beforehand.
Darkan was a [filtered], and no one seemed to know the mechs in there, but we did it and not even one wipe.
It took a while and it took a lot of dodging and ressing and healing, but it was fun all the same.

I have once. ONCE. Been in a group where I told them I hadn't done the HM mode yet (which I was in) and two of the DPS (one especially) were so darn helpful and polite and awesome that I still have their names in a notepad folder on my desktop. <3
CornishRex wrote: »
XHGJW4LMY6 wrote: »
KitTeaCup wrote: »
What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?

I hate to say this but make the game easier. This could be accomplished through a combination of reducing boss damage and making gearing easier.

Reducing boss damage is dumb. They did that on tera console and it's not working out for them, is it now?
Training dungeons and other suggestions are a much better idea. Biggest problem is not damage, rather it's getting used to mechanics and certain unavoidable attacks, so if we were able to practice that beforehand it would be a lot of help.

Not to mention a "Practice" mode would make lowering overall difficulty redundant anyway.
TERA PC - General Discussion#81 Cyborq10/24/2018, 11:27 AM
I like the ideas of having a learning type of dungeons for HM's with unlimited entrances and little to no loot for clearing them.
Same mechs, same speed, a lot less damage.
Maybe even implement something that when people get hit, it tells them what this mechanic that they got hit with does (debuff, stagger, little, medium, a lot or oneshot damage, bleed, knockback, stun etc etc) and how to avoid this attack, if it is iframe-able and etcetera.

Giving exp'd people rewards for teaching new people the ropes also sounds good. But I guess that'd have to be done the hard way.
Drag the beginners through the HM's.
> @CornishRex said:
> XHGJW4LMY6 wrote: »
>
> KitTeaCup wrote: »
>
> What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?
>
>
>
>
> I hate to say this but make the game easier. This could be accomplished through a combination of reducing boss damage and making gearing easier.
>
>
>
>
> Reducing boss damage is dumb. They did that on tera console and it's not working out for them, is it now?

No they didn't. The bosses still eat 50+% of your hp on basic [filtered] really easily and named mechanics still 1 shot you.

The veliks little helper buff console recieved isnt reallt doing anything beyond occasional literal scathing survival on bosses clipping melee from behind.
@Zubberfly I'm sad you decided to go. I love this game and would completely have no problem running with you.
Nopi wrote: »
@KitTeaCup
I'd say that looking for ways to make the pros feel they are not wasting their time on newbies would be a good start. One option would be to throw actual learning run dungeons. These do the exact same as their regular counterpart, but they give no expensive rewards (maybe just pots and some pocket change gold), but they also do not consume your tries per day, so anyone can enter and practice them to their heart's content. A pro could do all their daily stuff, then hang back running with newbies.

Another thing, we can get registered mentors who need to keep their mentor status monthly through the new commend system. This way, players will know the mentors they see are active. Give these players mentor related perks, like small boosts in combat when playing in a dungeon with unskilled players.

I don't agree with making dungeons easier to newbies. As in, if there are one shot mechs, these should apply to everyone. Maybe, use screen filling messages and stronger visual cues to alert people when they are in danger, like a notice when standing in DoT puddles or a notice with a prompt for an i-frame skill when an impeding hard attack is about ti launch, like BnS does on normal difficulty dungeons. These things can then be made editable when skilled in the dungeon, through a small "use danger messages" check box when queuing or a "use danger messages for skilled dungeons" in options.

These are just a few ideas that come to my mind to tr and help connecting pros with newbies. Since this is one of the most important things the game needs right now.

Even a "Danger Room" where replicas of all the bosses are, complete with mechanics. Can be entered singly (with bots to supply missing people ) or as a group, to practice mechs. I would be incredibly excited with a chance to practice mechs that inconveniences no one else. No rewards ofc, beyond perhaps a random consumable or two. The reward is the chance to practice.
Maxmilian wrote: »
KitTeaCup wrote: »
What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?

@KitTeaCup
Get in touch with the people who run Essential Mana, and entice them to write updated guides for you, possibly feature them in a blog post or on stream. They have a discord so its extremely easy to get in touch with the writers.

Do learning runs for low level dungeons on twitch and alternate POV between tanking, healing and dps.
Healer POV is usually the easiest to teach on since you are just watching the tank and dps do their things anyway.

You need to not be dying or just idly walking around like you do in most streams so if you cant do it, give the POV to someone else. Have someone who is skilled in high level dungeons come in and do in depth shot calling runs of the introductory 431's and up.
And by skilled, i mean people who dont need to be told their rotation is wrong at the end of the run
Have someone come in and explain what enrage is and what it looks like, what deadly boss debuffs look like when theyre on you, what crystals are needed on who, buffs that should be used pre fight (nostrums prime solution etc), things that noobs wouldnt know unless someone told them. Do wipe runs on purpose where you go into detail about what exact mechanic will wipe you and why and how to avoid it.

We need in depth breakdowns of dungeons and mechanics that are sponsored and distributed by eme. The videos could be lifted from twitch and even edited and put on an eme official youtube channel. Touch bases with the real top tier players of Tera, not just gear carried weak sauce.
Twitch is a tool that could be used for more than just mindless bumbling for 2 and a half hours.

I think this is a very well thought out synopsis of the problem. Well said.
Personaly, i dont like how @KitTeaCup said, no offense.
its like... player should take very seriously for TERA game play, with being forget to have `fun`.

People have come on go in TERA..
there were people has very fast learning, and some are not,

There are people like me with enough item level to run all dungeon in TERA,
(Brawler 455 Full SC+9, Berserker 453 Full SC+7, and Gunner 453 Full SC+7), but lacking skill in end-game content,
because i`m very strugling to run `learning-run` in TERA end-game content, since i was main tank, people expected me to become `genius` by just run dungeon in 5 times (ask me why?).
And few people like me is exist in TERA..

What i`m trying to say, TERA game-play in end-game content now produce `anomaly` of people behavior,
`if` TERA expecting and forcing people to be experience in end-game content,
TERA should have instrument and feature to provide it.

Training HM dungeon with no rewards, and unlimited count, maybe a good idea,
but i `doubt` that would be effective, because players seems very calculate about their play time and rewards.
And this `Training HM dungeon` would be `contradiction` with `instance matching`, or should they should make IM for `Training HM dungeon` also?.

Some people with hardcore farming would tend to buy high-end material rather than strugling with learning-run, its not because they want the easy way, but its how their point of view, some people think that effective way,
including elitist, they wont accept condition which is strugling for them.
Remove item xp, And gold for enchantement on this region , I prefer to fail 150 times with cheap and easy materials to get than spend 400% more time just for have a chance to upgrade.

Before =Alkahest and Feedstock. Only two things to worry players.

Now = Golden talents golden darics, golden plates, silver siglos, silver plates, silver talents, gold, gems ,shappire, ruby, diamond, emerald. Item xp , talents, I bet soon will be even a new thing called roll tokens to make things even more harder than before.

You made the game too demanding in time to progress even for low levels.
New gear system should be hard only for super high tiers not for any tier.

When you put a person to play the game for months without see progress, people leave and spend money in games where they can play without wait. Is the rule number 1 in games now if a company want money.
Gatokatzen wrote: »
Remove item xp, And gold for enchantement on this region , I prefer to fail 150 times with cheap and easy materials to get than spend 400% more time just for have a chance to upgrade.

Before =Alkahest and Feedstock. Only two things to worry players.

Now = Golden talents golden darics, golden plates, silver siglos, silver plates, silver talents, gold, gems ,shappire, ruby, diamond, emerald. Item xp , talents, I bet soon will be even a new thing called roll tokens to make things even more harder than before.

You made the game too demanding in time to progress even for low levels.
New gear system should be hard only for super high tiers not for any tier.

When you put a person to play the game for months without see progress, people leave and spend money in games where they can play without wait. Is the rule number 1 in games now if a company want money.

Wrong topic, god.
TERA PC - General Discussion#88 Kira9810/24/2018, 03:15 PM
Come EU, we have cookies and lolis with learning runs :^)
TERA PC - General Discussion#89 Nopi10/24/2018, 04:28 PM
Long ago I vouched for a training room of sorts. I'm surprised to see a very similar thing done in Blade and Soul. Aside from the combo tutorials (with combos nobody uses anyway but some chains are nice), you can spawn a boss and fight it solo or with a tank NPC. It doesn't have all boss mechs and also lacks rage timers, but it's a good first step to get used to a boss' size and range.

It may sound like imitating, but really, this is a nifty feature I don't mind other games to emulate.
Nopi wrote: »
Long ago I vouched for a training room of sorts. I'm surprised to see a very similar thing done in Blade and Soul. Aside from the combo tutorials (with combos nobody uses anyway but some chains are nice), you can spawn a boss and fight it solo or with a tank NPC. It doesn't have all boss mechs and also lacks rage timers, but it's a good first step to get used to a boss' size and range.

It may sound like imitating, but really, this is a nifty feature I don't mind other games to emulate.

This too.

Also we need training dummies badly. Pls tell BHS.
The problem is real is for slow muscle memory learners. 2-4 runs a night is not enough to really cement the reflexes--and ruins everyones fun besides.

This one time we failed for an hour in HH and for once I was doing the mechs right--it cemented the correct procedures in my bones, and I've been solid ever since. Before that I was iffy--sometimes I could and sometimes I couldn't.

But, if I could just park my behind in a training dungeon, and run a level over and over and over until I got it. It might take a weekend of play, but I would be ready for the real thing. Right now I try to substitute with hours of videos, trying to find as many angles as I can, and weeks of mental practice and limited runs--and I still struggle with 5 stars. I'm still at that "iffy" stage. I need to find the groove--and STAY in that groove enough times to have it solid.

Ah well. If wishes were horses and all that.
I bring some interesting news from korea, they've made a training dummy room with a built in (albeit not so functional) dps meter. There's a lot to improve still but I think they're heading the right way with this.
TERA PC - General Discussion#93 Krydr10/25/2018, 01:36 PM
KitTeaCup wrote: »
What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?

@KitTeaCup

I will be brief and take points from the previous posts, but first of all, don't give extra reward to skilled players! This type of system will be abused or ignored most of the time.

What would be appropriate is to have this...
Dungeon%20enter.jpg

To do:
1 - Bring back the 'Solo-Dungeon System' (rename it if you want) and change the following things:

(1.1) Allow Party/Raid entry (so, no longer 'Solo')
(1.2) Extend this system to ALL dungeons (including hard modes like Grotto/GLSHM and HH) [basically 'Copy and Paste' everything with a 'training' option in the teleport]
(1.3) Remove any form of loot/drop to make it fair and allow unlimited entry for training purpose.
(1.4) Every player has 99 neo resurrection regardless of how many times they did the training. (I believe low-level dungeons also have 99 neo resurrection)
(1.5) Remove item level restriction for training dungeons option. (This allow a wider range of player to train before they reach the right item level)
(1.6) Deactivate the wipe mechanic of the 10 minutes countdown present in some dungeons (e.g. RMHM, RKEM, GLSHM). You can let the timer just keep ticking, so they know how much behind they are with the DPS. (Some boss mechanics open up after a certain low HP. Lower gear, disconnections, lags, and inexperience can make the fight longer, thus, new players would be unable to witness them.)

This will help new and current players to practice and get used to the mechanics.

2 - Create in the Forum a Training section. (Achievement too if you want)

(2.1) If a player wants to train a certain dungeon, he must create a post and write in the forum the following:
- Player In-Game Name:
- Class:
- Item Level:
- Server:
- Dungeon:
- Time and/or Date of the training in PDT timezone format (with hours willing to train would be helpful).

(2.2) Anyone who wants to join/help must write:
- Class:
- Item Level:
- Time:
- Player In-Game Name: (optional)

(2.3) Even if the post doesn't reach the full party in the forum, it could possibly reach in the game, so make an LFG in that case.

Make LFG also when someone leave the party for some reason. Some players may have just read in the forum and decided to join for some trap/fun Friday-night run. There is no help because it is not organised or not known.

With this system, there shouldn't be complain. There are only two servers and I am sure even casual players can give a hand from time to time.
KitTeaCup wrote: »
What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?

Get in a good guild, or make a static party.. That's from player's side.

But from developer / publisher's point, we definitely could use a training dummy. One that simulates the stats of the high end boss of the game. This way player can gauge themselves of skills and dps output. I know lots of people argue that gear dont matter skill does coz mechanic, skill dont matter gear does coz the sweet sweet 'deeps', but both actually do matter. A lot. In fact, its not uncommon that in end game dungeon have 'shield phase' mechanic, that require the team to dps and break the shield or lest they all wiped out. And there are dungeons that rely heavily on mechanic, like the Demon's Wheel, or Broken Prison.

So instead of going into the high level dungeon and try to 'learn [insert your excuses]', its better to 'eliminate' these excuses one at the time. Before this, people used to say that they don't know crystals, glyph, rotation etc. In fact, long before this, people even use belt, brooch and panties as excuses. Because they literally had never seen those until they reached cap level. But now, they cant give excuses about those stuff anymore. Coz crystals, glyph, brooches and panties are given throughout the story quests. And I'm pretty sure dougal even give out a 'pvp guidebook' or something.. along with pvp crystals set.

Right now, the issues are skill rotation, dungeon mechanic, and dps. I know people be like, hey I know mechanic, i can do dis. Did u know that there is an introduction to apex quest called a 'A gift for the Goddess'? If u follow this this quest chain, it will lead up to a ilvl 438 quest called, 'The finest fireworks'. It require u to clear Kalivan Dreadnaught dungeon. People went in there, with their FM+0, and their dps is ok. But Kalivan Dreadnaught is a ilvl 431 dungeon. And people still struggle with 'ok' dps.

And u wonder why u go to ilvl 439 dungeons with FM+0, and they don't believe u when u say, 'i am still learning the mechanics'.
:grin:
Krydr wrote: »
KitTeaCup wrote: »
What does everyone think is the best way to avoid this sort of situation?

@KitTeaCup

I will be brief and take points from the previous posts, but first of all, don't give extra reward to skilled players! This type of system will be abused or ignored most of the time.

What would be appropriate is to have this...
Dungeon%20enter.jpg

To do:
1 - Bring back the 'Solo-Dungeon System' (rename it if you want) and change the following things:

(1.1) Allow Party/Raid entry (so, no longer 'Solo')
(1.2) Extend this system to ALL dungeons (including hard modes like Grotto/GLSHM and HH) [basically 'Copy and Paste' everything with a 'training' option in the teleport]
(1.3) Remove any form of loot/drop to make it fair and allow unlimited entry for training purpose.
(1.4) Every player has 99 neo resurrection regardless of how many times they did the training. (I believe low-level dungeons also have 99 neo resurrection)
(1.5) Remove item level restriction for training dungeons option. (This allow a wider range of player to train before they reach the right item level)
(1.6) Deactivate the wipe mechanic of the 10 minutes countdown present in some dungeons (e.g. RMHM, RKEM, GLSHM). You can let the timer just keep ticking, so they know how much behind they are with the DPS. (Some boss mechanics open up after a certain low HP. Lower gear, disconnections, lags, and inexperience can make the fight longer, thus, new players would be unable to witness them.)

This will help new and current players to practice and get used to the mechanics.

2 - Create in the Forum a Training section. (Achievement too if you want)

(2.1) If a player wants to train a certain dungeon, he must create a post and write in the forum the following:
- Player In-Game Name:
- Class:
- Item Level:
- Server:
- Dungeon:
- Time and/or Date of the training in PDT timezone format (with hours willing to train would be helpful).

(2.2) Anyone who wants to join/help must write:
- Class:
- Item Level:
- Time:
- Player In-Game Name: (optional)

(2.3) Even if the post doesn't reach the full party in the forum, it could possibly reach in the game, so make an LFG in that case.

Make LFG also when someone leave the party for some reason. Some players may have just read in the forum and decided to join for some trap/fun Friday-night run. There is no help because it is not organised or not known.

With this system, there shouldn't be complain. There are only two servers and I am sure even casual players can give a hand from time to time.

Ooo I hadn't thought of using the old solo system to create the training sustem.
TERA PC - General Discussion#96 Nopi10/26/2018, 04:06 PM
The problem with the old solo dungeon was that it was rather unbalanced. There was also the issue with avatar weapons being way too strong back then (they have since been heavily nerfed though). So all in all, a solo dungeon hardly gave me an experience similar to what I'd encounter in a party dungeon. Also, not all dungeons had solo versions. If they want to bring something to train players, it should be as close as the real thing as possible.
Nopi wrote: »
The problem with the old solo dungeon was that it was rather unbalanced. There was also the issue with avatar weapons being way too strong back then (they have since been heavily nerfed though). So all in all, a solo dungeon hardly gave me an experience similar to what I'd encounter in a party dungeon. Also, not all dungeons had solo versions. If they want to bring something to train players, it should be as close as the real thing as possible.

Agreed, "practice how you play" and such.

I agree with bringing back solo instances, but for the sake of advancing the narrative (which is a different cup of Kool-Aid, admittedly), even for the post-FoA dungeons.
TERA PC - General Discussion#98 Nopi10/27/2018, 01:32 AM
SageWindu wrote: »
Nopi wrote: »
The problem with the old solo dungeon was that it was rather unbalanced. There was also the issue with avatar weapons being way too strong back then (they have since been heavily nerfed though). So all in all, a solo dungeon hardly gave me an experience similar to what I'd encounter in a party dungeon. Also, not all dungeons had solo versions. If they want to bring something to train players, it should be as close as the real thing as possible.

Agreed, "practice how you play" and such.

I agree with bringing back solo instances, but for the sake of advancing the narrative (which is a different cup of Kool-Aid, admittedly), even for the post-FoA dungeons.

eh. Would LOVE if dungeons were opened to advance the narrative usually walled behind top tier party content. But so far I have never seen any MMO doing that. Back when Manaya Core was top tier, you had to do said dungeon (which wasn't a walk in the park because of the weird mechanics needed on the last boss and of course, everything there used to hit hard). Of course, people who sucked at the game or had trouble getting into a party had no opportunity to see the last part of the story they spent months leveling up to. This practice is meant as a reward for getting good and partying, but usually it just stated that not everyone deserved to see the ending. It's a slap in the face in my opinion. Now this happens with the Dakuryon story line and all those side stories about the other major bad guys of Tera. So this, coupled with making those dungeons into solo learning experiences, could entice people to see more of the lore hidden away while also getting useful knowledge about end game mechanics and play styles.
the game is just not suitable for new players, it will die eventually when veteran gradually leave.
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