TERA Online forum archive
TERA PC - General Discussion: The golden talent situation is no longer anywhere near acceptable
With the nerf of golden talent drops from battlegrounds going all the way down to 35 if you're lucky, the new price of talents is currently at 90g on Mount Tyrannas. Golden plates are at nearly 600g.

The gold gained from AAH and SSH are higher, but this is irrelevant to new players who now gain even less gold from their own vanguards and people who don't even have high enough ilvl to get the vanguard rewards. This creates an even bigger discrepancy between people still gearing and people who can consistently clear the hard modes daily with elite + reset scroll.

I don't know what EME was trying to do by not including these changes in the patch notes, maybe you thought people wouldn't notice or something and people wouldn't pressure you? But now it's finally too late, now is absolutely the time to fix this problem. Adopt the solutions that Gameforge has taken up with the dungeon rewards that allow you to buy talents from a shop at an extremely good rate. Hold more events that give talents, period. Don't stop applying these solutions until the price has settled at an actually reasonable price. This is absolutely unacceptable and is the exact reason that your published version of the game isn't doing so hot compared to Gameforge, which is really freaking ironic considering Gameforge could barely compete a year or two ago. All of the EU people are already moving back to Gameforge in droves, soon the NA people will leave too, and all you'll be left with is the people too lazy to switch, not even people who care about you, just people who have sunk too much into your game.
TERA PC - General Discussion#2 Ayi09/15/2018, 02:39 AM
35 gold talents.. :(
Just putting this out there and this really is a band-aid fix, when they removed the double vanguard item rewards, they had promises of there being potentially 3x vanguard rewards, and that having that on every once in a while would be the balance for taking away permanent 2x rewards. I don't think we've had triple vanguard item rewards in a long time after the initial removal so... I'd say band aid fix and ask for triple item vanguard rewards for a while.
Also add silver talent 8 x 431 dugens in a row and only 6 silvers talents is beyond sad.
Now even reach frosmetal +0 will be impossible
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.
Need strongbox events again with 6k talent jackpots like before
I highly doubt this issue is going to be addressed. There are threads upon threads of people asking silver/gold talents to do address and those threads either got locked. EME is mostly likely silently hinting at loot boxes. Its a obvious game issue and they have continued to ignore it
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.

Yeah, no. This doesn't solve that issue, buddy.
TERA PC - General Discussion#9 Elyann09/15/2018, 06:15 AM
I think it's another of Bluehole's bad decisions....I actually haven't seen them taking ANY good one in years so far though....feels like they want their game to sink...
I am not sure about the drop rate from the boxes from the battlegrounds but the quantity sure looks different AND if we look at the KC/RG/SF sitatuation then this is not really good..

These days it is so hard to enchant that i am thinking twice what to do with my alts that i want to improve and play with...
HLK76PFWXT wrote: »
I am not sure about the drop rate from the boxes from the battlegrounds but the quantity sure looks different AND if we look at the KC/RG/SF sitatuation then this is not really good..

These days it is so hard to enchant that i am thinking twice what to do with my alts that i want to improve and play with...

Same, I was just beginning to gear up the slayer I've wanted to play again for the last 2 years, but at the rate golden talents are increasing, it's looking like I'm never going to be able to afford it. The game literally doesn't want me to continue playing at this point.
TERA PC - General Discussion#12 voidy09/15/2018, 12:20 PM
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.

Ehh, I don't think spamming IOD teaches people anything since the low tier mobs (which also give the most talents for some reason) don't have much HP and you don't really have to learn how to play optimally to be successful there. And even if it did provide a good training experience, you're still grinding there once you hit 453, because there aren't any better pve places to get talents. Maybe if late-game dungeons dropped plates, then this would be okay. But they don't, so it sucks.

TERA PC - General Discussion#13 Laemie09/15/2018, 12:42 PM
Funny, so when the game had literally no gold talent supply other than spamming low tier contents for a really low rate or gambling with RNG boxes, ppl were makin threads about the issue and stuff. Now they have finally listened to us then?

"Okeee we got it, stop complaining! Here, we nerfed the Gold talent supply from the RNG boxes, cri more B) "
TERA PC - General Discussion#14 ElinLove09/15/2018, 12:49 PM
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.

1 - Healers don't heal other people if they have to just DPS a monster, so not learning their class in team play;
2 - Tankers don't need any positioning for the monster or party buffing, they just solo DPS as they've been doing for the past 64 levels;
3 - DPS at best, stuns a monster and spams attacks at random at back, or may even DPS on front. The boss is constantly rotating, it could only simulate a crap tank formation and nothing else;
4 - 0 DPS checks. You can farm any way you want, there's nothing about the efficiency of your rotation taken into account;
5 - There's 0 special mechanics to learn how to actually dodge or anything. Face tanking is an option given motes and potions.
ElinLove wrote: »
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.

1 - Healers don't heal other people if they have to just DPS a monster, so not learning their class in team play;
2 - Tankers don't need any positioning for the monster or party buffing, they just solo DPS as they've been doing for the past 64 levels;
3 - DPS at best, stuns a monster and spams attacks at random at back, or may even DPS on front. The boss is constantly rotating, it could only simulate a crap tank formation and nothing else;
4 - 0 DPS checks. You can farm any way you want, there's nothing about the efficiency of your rotation taken into account;
5 - There's 0 special mechanics to learn how to actually dodge or anything. Face tanking is an option given motes and potions.

If they're the kind of dpses that are content to just stand in front of a boss and hold their auto attack button for 5 minutes, i don't want them in my party, and it's not likely they'd do much gearing anyway.
As for healers, yeah it kinda sucks that everything has been nerfed into the ground so hard that a healer will never be needed for open world content, but that's the game we're playing. Healers tend to have a much easier time finding parties for low-tier content anyway, so i'm not sure this is a huge concern
ElinLove wrote: »
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.

1 - Healers don't heal other people if they have to just DPS a monster, so not learning their class in team play;
2 - Tankers don't need any positioning for the monster or party buffing, they just solo DPS as they've been doing for the past 64 levels;
3 - DPS at best, stuns a monster and spams attacks at random at back, or may even DPS on front. The boss is constantly rotating, it could only simulate a crap tank formation and nothing else;
4 - 0 DPS checks. You can farm any way you want, there's nothing about the efficiency of your rotation taken into account;
5 - There's 0 special mechanics to learn how to actually dodge or anything. Face tanking is an option given motes and potions.

If they're the kind of dpses that are content to just stand in front of a boss and hold their auto attack button for 5 minutes, i don't want them in my party, and it's not likely they'd do much gearing anyway.
As for healers, yeah it kinda sucks that everything has been nerfed into the ground so hard that a healer will never be needed for open world content, but that's the game we're playing. Healers tend to have a much easier time finding parties for low-tier content anyway, so i'm not sure this is a huge concern

B-But you want healers to learn their class before joining 412/431 dungeons... You are being ambigous.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinLove wrote: »
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.

1 - Healers don't heal other people if they have to just DPS a monster, so not learning their class in team play;
2 - Tankers don't need any positioning for the monster or party buffing, they just solo DPS as they've been doing for the past 64 levels;
3 - DPS at best, stuns a monster and spams attacks at random at back, or may even DPS on front. The boss is constantly rotating, it could only simulate a crap tank formation and nothing else;
4 - 0 DPS checks. You can farm any way you want, there's nothing about the efficiency of your rotation taken into account;
5 - There's 0 special mechanics to learn how to actually dodge or anything. Face tanking is an option given motes and potions.

If they're the kind of dpses that are content to just stand in front of a boss and hold their auto attack button for 5 minutes, i don't want them in my party, and it's not likely they'd do much gearing anyway.
As for healers, yeah it kinda sucks that everything has been nerfed into the ground so hard that a healer will never be needed for open world content, but that's the game we're playing. Healers tend to have a much easier time finding parties for low-tier content anyway, so i'm not sure this is a huge concern

B-But you want healers to learn their class before joining 412/431 dungeons... You are being ambigous.

I specifically mentioned 439 dungeons earlier, since 412/431's are so hilariously easy a paper bag filled with cookies could clear them. Also, ambiguous wouldn't be the right word there even if it was spelled correctly.

The point of my post is that iod is a serious option compared to 412's for fresh 65's now, because the gold is pretty comparable and queues almost certainly won't be full of stormcry people carrying them through the dungeon anymore. Healers will have a serious trial by fire trying to keep guardian players alive in those 412's and they'll actually have to learn what some of those buttons on their skillbar do while progressing instead of the current meta of "how did this idiot even get frostmetal gear and wind up in rknm? kick him"
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinLove wrote: »
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.

1 - Healers don't heal other people if they have to just DPS a monster, so not learning their class in team play;
2 - Tankers don't need any positioning for the monster or party buffing, they just solo DPS as they've been doing for the past 64 levels;
3 - DPS at best, stuns a monster and spams attacks at random at back, or may even DPS on front. The boss is constantly rotating, it could only simulate a crap tank formation and nothing else;
4 - 0 DPS checks. You can farm any way you want, there's nothing about the efficiency of your rotation taken into account;
5 - There's 0 special mechanics to learn how to actually dodge or anything. Face tanking is an option given motes and potions.

If they're the kind of dpses that are content to just stand in front of a boss and hold their auto attack button for 5 minutes, i don't want them in my party, and it's not likely they'd do much gearing anyway.
As for healers, yeah it kinda sucks that everything has been nerfed into the ground so hard that a healer will never be needed for open world content, but that's the game we're playing. Healers tend to have a much easier time finding parties for low-tier content anyway, so i'm not sure this is a huge concern

B-But you want healers to learn their class before joining 412/431 dungeons... You are being ambigous.

I specifically mentioned 439 dungeons earlier, since 412/431's are so hilariously easy a paper bag filled with cookies could clear them. Also, ambiguous wouldn't be the right word there even if it was spelled correctly.

The point of my post is that iod is a serious option compared to 412's for fresh 65's now, because the gold is pretty comparable and queues almost certainly won't be full of stormcry people carrying them through the dungeon anymore. Healers will have a serious trial by fire trying to keep guardian players alive in those 412's and they'll actually have to learn what some of those buttons on their skillbar do while progressing instead of the current meta of "how did this idiot even get frostmetal gear and wind up in rknm? kick him"

They may get Frostmetal doing only IoD, with full tier 3 etchings and full master glyphs, and they can be doing less than 300k dps on a 439 dungeon. And at the end of the day players will still do what you are saying in the end if your post "Kick him" because even as they can see that player is new to the dungeon and even if he read guides, that is not good enought to avoid deaths and 439 dungeons are fast to finish them even if one dps is performing badly, however if the healer or tank is performing bad those dungeons turns into something really nasty most of the times.

That is why I am saying you are being abigous.
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.

IoD doesn't teach positioning. Or rotations. Or resource management. Or how to play with others. And so on.

I suppose it does teach a person how to fight against specific bosses to a degree... that then never show up except in, like, 2 end-game dungeons (actually, only one since FI is still not a thing).
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinLove wrote: »
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.

1 - Healers don't heal other people if they have to just DPS a monster, so not learning their class in team play;
2 - Tankers don't need any positioning for the monster or party buffing, they just solo DPS as they've been doing for the past 64 levels;
3 - DPS at best, stuns a monster and spams attacks at random at back, or may even DPS on front. The boss is constantly rotating, it could only simulate a crap tank formation and nothing else;
4 - 0 DPS checks. You can farm any way you want, there's nothing about the efficiency of your rotation taken into account;
5 - There's 0 special mechanics to learn how to actually dodge or anything. Face tanking is an option given motes and potions.

If they're the kind of dpses that are content to just stand in front of a boss and hold their auto attack button for 5 minutes, i don't want them in my party, and it's not likely they'd do much gearing anyway.
As for healers, yeah it kinda sucks that everything has been nerfed into the ground so hard that a healer will never be needed for open world content, but that's the game we're playing. Healers tend to have a much easier time finding parties for low-tier content anyway, so i'm not sure this is a huge concern

B-But you want healers to learn their class before joining 412/431 dungeons... You are being ambigous.

I specifically mentioned 439 dungeons earlier, since 412/431's are so hilariously easy a paper bag filled with cookies could clear them. Also, ambiguous wouldn't be the right word there even if it was spelled correctly.

The point of my post is that iod is a serious option compared to 412's for fresh 65's now, because the gold is pretty comparable and queues almost certainly won't be full of stormcry people carrying them through the dungeon anymore. Healers will have a serious trial by fire trying to keep guardian players alive in those 412's and they'll actually have to learn what some of those buttons on their skillbar do while progressing instead of the current meta of "how did this idiot even get frostmetal gear and wind up in rknm? kick him"

They may get Frostmetal doing only IoD, with full tier 3 etchings and full master glyphs, and they can be doing less than 300k dps on a 439 dungeon. And at the end of the day players will still do what you are saying in the end if your post "Kick him" because even as they can see that player is new to the dungeon and even if he read guides, that is not good enought to avoid deaths and 439 dungeons are fast to finish them even if one dps is performing badly, however if the healer or tank is performing bad those dungeons turns into something really nasty most of the times.

That is why I am saying you are being abigous.

Ambiguous, which you still spelled incorrectly despite writing it directly below the correct spelling, does not mean what you think it means!

I also disagree with your assessment - keeping guardian players alive in 412/twist in 431 dungeons is pretty good training for a healer to actually use their healing skills. Certainly more so than standing around doing nothing for 20 seconds while a HO warrior solos the bosses. From what I see in 439's, it's very rare to kick a healer or tank in IMS before they act really stupidly, but that might just be my own experience. If they know the basics and are trying their best, and willing to learn, then people usually give them a chance at least. If they don't know what "cleanse please" means at ilvl 439, and they don't have any glyphs or crystals.. yeah, they shouldn't be there. they probably shouldn't be playing tera.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinLove wrote: »
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.

1 - Healers don't heal other people if they have to just DPS a monster, so not learning their class in team play;
2 - Tankers don't need any positioning for the monster or party buffing, they just solo DPS as they've been doing for the past 64 levels;
3 - DPS at best, stuns a monster and spams attacks at random at back, or may even DPS on front. The boss is constantly rotating, it could only simulate a crap tank formation and nothing else;
4 - 0 DPS checks. You can farm any way you want, there's nothing about the efficiency of your rotation taken into account;
5 - There's 0 special mechanics to learn how to actually dodge or anything. Face tanking is an option given motes and potions.

If they're the kind of dpses that are content to just stand in front of a boss and hold their auto attack button for 5 minutes, i don't want them in my party, and it's not likely they'd do much gearing anyway.
As for healers, yeah it kinda sucks that everything has been nerfed into the ground so hard that a healer will never be needed for open world content, but that's the game we're playing. Healers tend to have a much easier time finding parties for low-tier content anyway, so i'm not sure this is a huge concern

B-But you want healers to learn their class before joining 412/431 dungeons... You are being ambigous.

I specifically mentioned 439 dungeons earlier, since 412/431's are so hilariously easy a paper bag filled with cookies could clear them. Also, ambiguous wouldn't be the right word there even if it was spelled correctly.

The point of my post is that iod is a serious option compared to 412's for fresh 65's now, because the gold is pretty comparable and queues almost certainly won't be full of stormcry people carrying them through the dungeon anymore. Healers will have a serious trial by fire trying to keep guardian players alive in those 412's and they'll actually have to learn what some of those buttons on their skillbar do while progressing instead of the current meta of "how did this idiot even get frostmetal gear and wind up in rknm? kick him"

They may get Frostmetal doing only IoD, with full tier 3 etchings and full master glyphs, and they can be doing less than 300k dps on a 439 dungeon. And at the end of the day players will still do what you are saying in the end if your post "Kick him" because even as they can see that player is new to the dungeon and even if he read guides, that is not good enought to avoid deaths and 439 dungeons are fast to finish them even if one dps is performing badly, however if the healer or tank is performing bad those dungeons turns into something really nasty most of the times.

That is why I am saying you are being abigous.

Ambiguous, which you still spelled incorrectly despite writing it directly below the correct spelling, does not mean what you think it means!

I also disagree with your assessment - keeping guardian players alive in 412/twist in 431 dungeons is pretty good training for a healer to actually use their healing skills. Certainly more so than standing around doing nothing for 20 seconds while a HO warrior solos the bosses. From what I see in 439's, it's very rare to kick a healer or tank in IMS before they act really stupidly, but that might just be my own experience. If they know the basics and are trying their best, and willing to learn, then people usually give them a chance at least. If they don't know what "cleanse please" means at ilvl 439, and they don't have any glyphs or crystals.. yeah, they shouldn't be there. they probably shouldn't be playing tera.

You said that players will know how to play their class doing BAM's what is not a truth most of the times, that is the ambiguous statement, I am not trying to offend you by any means but only pointing what you suggested will not change much of the player mind set or gameplay.

"I specifically mentioned 439 dungeons earlier, since 412/431's are so hilariously easy a paper bag filled with cookies could clear them" How can they be a good training for healers if you are basically saying that guardian/twishard players should not be doing 412/431 dungeons because they will be carried by HO players and will not learn anything? The same applies for healers.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinLove wrote: »
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.

1 - Healers don't heal other people if they have to just DPS a monster, so not learning their class in team play;
2 - Tankers don't need any positioning for the monster or party buffing, they just solo DPS as they've been doing for the past 64 levels;
3 - DPS at best, stuns a monster and spams attacks at random at back, or may even DPS on front. The boss is constantly rotating, it could only simulate a crap tank formation and nothing else;
4 - 0 DPS checks. You can farm any way you want, there's nothing about the efficiency of your rotation taken into account;
5 - There's 0 special mechanics to learn how to actually dodge or anything. Face tanking is an option given motes and potions.

If they're the kind of dpses that are content to just stand in front of a boss and hold their auto attack button for 5 minutes, i don't want them in my party, and it's not likely they'd do much gearing anyway.
As for healers, yeah it kinda sucks that everything has been nerfed into the ground so hard that a healer will never be needed for open world content, but that's the game we're playing. Healers tend to have a much easier time finding parties for low-tier content anyway, so i'm not sure this is a huge concern

B-But you want healers to learn their class before joining 412/431 dungeons... You are being ambigous.

I specifically mentioned 439 dungeons earlier, since 412/431's are so hilariously easy a paper bag filled with cookies could clear them. Also, ambiguous wouldn't be the right word there even if it was spelled correctly.

The point of my post is that iod is a serious option compared to 412's for fresh 65's now, because the gold is pretty comparable and queues almost certainly won't be full of stormcry people carrying them through the dungeon anymore. Healers will have a serious trial by fire trying to keep guardian players alive in those 412's and they'll actually have to learn what some of those buttons on their skillbar do while progressing instead of the current meta of "how did this idiot even get frostmetal gear and wind up in rknm? kick him"

They may get Frostmetal doing only IoD, with full tier 3 etchings and full master glyphs, and they can be doing less than 300k dps on a 439 dungeon. And at the end of the day players will still do what you are saying in the end if your post "Kick him" because even as they can see that player is new to the dungeon and even if he read guides, that is not good enought to avoid deaths and 439 dungeons are fast to finish them even if one dps is performing badly, however if the healer or tank is performing bad those dungeons turns into something really nasty most of the times.

That is why I am saying you are being abigous.

Ambiguous, which you still spelled incorrectly despite writing it directly below the correct spelling, does not mean what you think it means!

I also disagree with your assessment - keeping guardian players alive in 412/twist in 431 dungeons is pretty good training for a healer to actually use their healing skills. Certainly more so than standing around doing nothing for 20 seconds while a HO warrior solos the bosses. From what I see in 439's, it's very rare to kick a healer or tank in IMS before they act really stupidly, but that might just be my own experience. If they know the basics and are trying their best, and willing to learn, then people usually give them a chance at least. If they don't know what "cleanse please" means at ilvl 439, and they don't have any glyphs or crystals.. yeah, they shouldn't be there. they probably shouldn't be playing tera.

I can't imagine being such a stuck up person that you correct a typo, did you think you were some sort of cool guy or something?

I really don't care about what you say at all, making a gear grind longer and/or more tedious is not going to teach people how to play their class properly, that's just not how it works. Now kindly leave this thread and stop trying to derail it into a flame war, because it's just going to get the thread closed.
TERA PC - General Discussion#23 ElinLove09/15/2018, 04:50 PM
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinUsagi wrote: »
ElinLove wrote: »
I prefer this honestly, it means people need to spam IOD and learn how to play their classes before coming to 439 dungeons and expecting to get carried.

1 - Healers don't heal other people if they have to just DPS a monster, so not learning their class in team play;
2 - Tankers don't need any positioning for the monster or party buffing, they just solo DPS as they've been doing for the past 64 levels;
3 - DPS at best, stuns a monster and spams attacks at random at back, or may even DPS on front. The boss is constantly rotating, it could only simulate a crap tank formation and nothing else;
4 - 0 DPS checks. You can farm any way you want, there's nothing about the efficiency of your rotation taken into account;
5 - There's 0 special mechanics to learn how to actually dodge or anything. Face tanking is an option given motes and potions.

If they're the kind of dpses that are content to just stand in front of a boss and hold their auto attack button for 5 minutes, i don't want them in my party, and it's not likely they'd do much gearing anyway.
As for healers, yeah it kinda sucks that everything has been nerfed into the ground so hard that a healer will never be needed for open world content, but that's the game we're playing. Healers tend to have a much easier time finding parties for low-tier content anyway, so i'm not sure this is a huge concern

B-But you want healers to learn their class before joining 412/431 dungeons... You are being ambigous.

I specifically mentioned 439 dungeons earlier, since 412/431's are so hilariously easy a paper bag filled with cookies could clear them. Also, ambiguous wouldn't be the right word there even if it was spelled correctly.

The point of my post is that iod is a serious option compared to 412's for fresh 65's now, because the gold is pretty comparable and queues almost certainly won't be full of stormcry people carrying them through the dungeon anymore. Healers will have a serious trial by fire trying to keep guardian players alive in those 412's and they'll actually have to learn what some of those buttons on their skillbar do while progressing instead of the current meta of "how did this idiot even get frostmetal gear and wind up in rknm? kick him"

They may get Frostmetal doing only IoD, with full tier 3 etchings and full master glyphs, and they can be doing less than 300k dps on a 439 dungeon. And at the end of the day players will still do what you are saying in the end if your post "Kick him" because even as they can see that player is new to the dungeon and even if he read guides, that is not good enought to avoid deaths and 439 dungeons are fast to finish them even if one dps is performing badly, however if the healer or tank is performing bad those dungeons turns into something really nasty most of the times.

That is why I am saying you are being abigous.

Ambiguous, which you still spelled incorrectly despite writing it directly below the correct spelling, does not mean what you think it means!

I also disagree with your assessment - keeping guardian players alive in 412/twist in 431 dungeons is pretty good training for a healer to actually use their healing skills. Certainly more so than standing around doing nothing for 20 seconds while a HO warrior solos the bosses. From what I see in 439's, it's very rare to kick a healer or tank in IMS before they act really stupidly, but that might just be my own experience. If they know the basics and are trying their best, and willing to learn, then people usually give them a chance at least. If they don't know what "cleanse please" means at ilvl 439, and they don't have any glyphs or crystals.. yeah, they shouldn't be there. they probably shouldn't be playing tera.

You said that players will know how to play their class doing BAM's what is not a truth most of the times, that is the ambiguous statement, I am not trying to offend you by any means but only pointing what you suggested will not change much of the player mind set or gameplay.
"I specifically mentioned 439 dungeons earlier, since 412/431's are so hilariously easy a paper bag filled with cookies could clear them"
How can they be a good training for healers if you are basically saying that guardian/twishard players should not be doing 412/431 dungeons because they will be carried by HO players and will not learn anything? The same applies for healers.

Just to clear up possible language misunderstandings:
Ambiguous: sentence has 2 or more possible meanings, the way it's written. Used when context is either fundamental to understand the correct meaning, or when such context is missing thus making it impossible to know which is the correct meaning.
Contradicting: When saying something at one moment, and then not much later, saying something completely inverse of what was 1st said.
A fitting example for our community: "This game needs a merge to keep it from dying!" ~merge announced, has to delete characters~ "Ayy this merge is killing this game"
TERA PC - General Discussion#24 Maddhawk09/15/2018, 05:43 PM
am·big·u·ous
amˈbiɡyo͞oəs/
adjective
adjective: ambiguous

(of language) open to more than one interpretation; having a double meaning.
"the question is rather ambiguous"
unclear or inexact because a choice between alternatives has not been made.
"this whole society is morally ambiguous"

He is correct to say that you are using the wrong word. The right word would be "inaccurate".

"It is "inaccurate" to say a player will gain any real degree of competency and skill at their class fighting IoD BAMs." - That would be the proper statement to address your concerns with his comment on using IoD BAMs as an alternative to low level dungeons.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
I really don't care about what you say at all, making a gear grind longer and/or more tedious is not going to teach people how to play their class properly, that's just not how it works.
I understand that you don't care about my point of view, which is fine, but that doesn't mean it's incorrect. People soloing BAM's definitely encourages them to find faster ways to kill the BAMs, which is what new players need, they need to get the understanding "oh, crystals will really help me kill these faster and stay alive, and these skills let me dodge the boss and move around" instead of jumping into a dungeon and just getting flamed for not knowing that stuff.
If you have an actual argument for *why* that's not the case, I'd like to hear it, but I think IoD genuinely helps people improve because it's fairly common in parties to just assume you're doing fine because nobody says anything, but in IoD if you're not playing well, you're going to have to learn at least a little.


Also, I'm not saying IoD should *replace* 412's/431's, just that now it is a viable supplement - queues will take longer and mean you need to spend more time soloing. Hence my comment about healer/tank queues being shorter and giving them the ability to learn their roles in the scenario they're designed for.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
I really don't care about what you say at all, making a gear grind longer and/or more tedious is not going to teach people how to play their class properly, that's just not how it works.
I understand that you don't care about my point of view, which is fine, but that doesn't mean it's incorrect. People soloing BAM's definitely encourages them to find faster ways to kill the BAMs, which is what new players need, they need to get the understanding "oh, crystals will really help me kill these faster and stay alive, and these skills let me dodge the boss and move around" instead of jumping into a dungeon and just getting flamed for not knowing that stuff.
If you have an actual argument for *why* that's not the case, I'd like to hear it, but I think IoD genuinely helps people improve because it's fairly common in parties to just assume you're doing fine because nobody says anything, but in IoD if you're not playing well, you're going to have to learn at least a little.


Also, I'm not saying IoD should *replace* 412's/431's, just that now it is a viable supplement - queues will take longer and mean you need to spend more time soloing. Hence my comment about healer/tank queues being shorter and giving them the ability to learn their roles in the scenario they're designed for.

1) It punishes players who already know how to play their class correctly. I have +4 SC but out dps almost every single warrior in +9. Yet I can't run AAHM to take advantage of the better drops because my ilvl is too low. My slayer is in +0 frostmetal but I've out dpsed a lot of slayers due to actually bothering to learn important rotation bits and the nuances of filler priority from Saabi's guide, but I'm discouraged from even gearing this character because of high prices. Let alone the fact that I can't even run RKE for the vanguard due to ilvl.

2) It doesn't teach people proper rotations, proper glyphs, proper gear rolls, people will just need to learn to find those things by themselves, spamming IoD won't help that.

3) You aren't being challenged in IoD, if you aren't being challenged, you aren't aware of whether it's your gear holding you back or your rotation, and in that case most people won't actually improve.

4) Island of dawn BAMs won't actually teach you the mechanics of the dungeon, which is the ultimate breaking point of high dps in a dungeon. If you spend all your time on the ground or having horrible APM because you're spending too much time second guessing mechanics, you'll lose more DPS than if you were just spacebarring your rotation.

5) The fact that EU doesn't have this problem is enough to debunk the idea that more tedious enchanting equals better players.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
I really don't care about what you say at all, making a gear grind longer and/or more tedious is not going to teach people how to play their class properly, that's just not how it works.
I understand that you don't care about my point of view, which is fine, but that doesn't mean it's incorrect. People soloing BAM's definitely encourages them to find faster ways to kill the BAMs, which is what new players need, they need to get the understanding "oh, crystals will really help me kill these faster and stay alive, and these skills let me dodge the boss and move around" instead of jumping into a dungeon and just getting flamed for not knowing that stuff.
If you have an actual argument for *why* that's not the case, I'd like to hear it, but I think IoD genuinely helps people improve because it's fairly common in parties to just assume you're doing fine because nobody says anything, but in IoD if you're not playing well, you're going to have to learn at least a little.


Also, I'm not saying IoD should *replace* 412's/431's, just that now it is a viable supplement - queues will take longer and mean you need to spend more time soloing. Hence my comment about healer/tank queues being shorter and giving them the ability to learn their roles in the scenario they're designed for.

1) It punishes players who already know how to play their class correctly. I have +4 SC but out dps almost every single warrior in +9. Yet I can't run AAHM to take advantage of the better drops because my ilvl is too low. My slayer is in +0 frostmetal but I've out dpsed a lot of slayers due to actually bothering to learn important rotation bits and the nuances of filler priority from Saabi's guide, but I'm discouraged from even gearing this character because of high prices. Let alone the fact that I can't even run RKE for the vanguard due to ilvl.

2) It doesn't teach people proper rotations, proper glyphs, proper gear rolls, people will just need to learn to find those things by themselves, spamming IoD won't help that.

3) You aren't being challenged in IoD, if you aren't being challenged, you aren't aware of whether it's your gear holding you back or your rotation, and in that case most people won't actually improve.

4) Island of dawn BAMs won't actually teach you the mechanics of the dungeon, which is the ultimate breaking point of high dps in a dungeon. If you spend all your time on the ground or having horrible APM because you're spending too much time second guessing mechanics, you'll lose more DPS than if you were just spacebarring your rotation.

5) The fact that EU doesn't have this problem is enough to debunk the idea that more tedious enchanting equals better players.

1) completely agree, people who already know their classes need to be able to complete vanguards - i think down the line vanguard ilvl gets lowered but ims doesn't? not 100% on that

2) Yeah, but having a reason to improve gives them a reason to look up things like that. e.g if you take 5 minutes to kill a bam and watch another player do it in 10 seconds with the same gear, you're gonna wanna figure out how

3) Exactly, the people who are challenged there are the ones who should be there, learning... i don't think higher tier players should be farming IoD at all ideally.

4) you're right, it doesn't teach you dungeon mechanics or min/max parsing, but it teaches you things like.. how to iframe.. which skills do more damage, that kind of thing. You're assuming these are players who need to learn how to do high DPS, but fresh 65's need to learn the absolute BASICS

5) every region solves problems differently, but the problem i'm talking about is not the golden talent problem. it's the overgeared underskilled players who make imsing unenjoyable for people who are actually trying to learn their classes. EU has a far worse problem with that than NA.
Justifying the only gold talent source of low-tier Bam with the need to teach new players the absolute basic is so fking dumb.

So after a few days of smacking BAM to get the basics? What do nee players do? Ah right keep killing the same thing for 6 months to get enchant materials.

Actually I don't think you are that dumb. You are just defending your only source of brainless income.

Gtfo while we try to ask for a real solution here.
VirtualON wrote: »
Justifying the only gold talent source of low-tier Bam with the need to teach new players the absolute basic is so fking dumb.

So after a few days of smacking BAM to get the basics? What do nee players do? Ah right keep killing the same thing for 6 months to get enchant materials.

Actually I don't think you are that dumb. You are just defending your only source of brainless income.

Gtfo while we try to ask for a real solution here.

I am agreeing with you, we need a better source of talents for geared players, but how iod+412+431's are now is, in my opinion, healthy for the game. it gives people a path to improvement that isn't just sink or swim in 439's. I don't actually do IoD myself, never really saw the need since I get a fair bit of gold income from spamming 439's and 446's. What you're doing is insulting someone blindly without offering anything more helpful, at least include a suggestion in your post instead of just venting the same old frustrations. Everyone is frustrated with the lack of gold talents, though it seems worse than it actually is because someone bought out the entire market to profit off of it when the merge happens. Either be helpful or be patient, being angry contributes nothing to anyone. Personally I've repeatedly suggested, for months, that darics and plates should drop in 439/446 dungeons, that we need a better way to farm when we're geared, and that we need some way to ensure new players have a safe learning environment. I genuinely think this change addresses the last of those concerns, and they just added SS which drops darics/plates, so... i recommend patience.
TERA PC - General Discussion#30 Elinu109/15/2018, 10:56 PM
Farming IoD makes me want to pull my hair out with boredom. Seriously boring and not helpful to learn well pretty much anything. Improve dungeon drops please.
@KitTeaCup @seandynamite

The following video is taken from one of the top players on KTERA, clipping out every single enchant attempt for her Archer's Weapon. On KTERA, Nexon run actual events which buff the drops of Golden Talents to a level much higher than what they are on NA (and to that point, NA actually has the lowest accrual rate of Golden Talents out of all TERA regions).

For her to get there, it requires a Korean player to have
- 3 accounts just dedicated to crafting to be able to craft the amount of materials to do the enchanting for a few months
- farmed every day since the RK9 dungeon was release (Stormcry gear release)
- (Cash Shop: We're talking EU style cash shop, where Gem/Enchanting Strongboxes only drop Gems/Enchanting materials, with none of the unrelated junk that NA has)

This video is going to be a milder representation of how players on NA are going to be when Heroic Oath becomes enchantable, except that it will take NA much longer to get all the material's together, and it's going to be that much more frustrating.



And yes, those are genuine tears of sadness and frustration you see in the video.

if you don't start fixing the situation in a way that allows players to play for the gear materials now, players are going to realise the scale of the grind required, and a considerable number are going to quit.
Just to follow on from that video, the total cost of all the materials used for her to enchant using prices on MT as at 9/16 1:11pm breaks down as

14 x HO +1 Enchant
3682 x 498 = 1,833,636
650 x 799 = 519,350
1470 x 1605 = 2,359,350
98 x 11100 = 1,087,800

Totalling: 5,980,136 for 14 HO + 1 weapon tries. And you have to do that for Chest, Gloves, Boots.

Then there is also the Belt, Accessories, and Circlet.

I don't want to think about what it is going to be like for HO + 2, except that it will be worse. And the same for HO +3.
TERA PC - General Discussion#33 TJKat09/15/2018, 11:13 PM
I'm just waiting for the day the talent system comes out and we become the uncontested grindiest version of Tera.
TERA PC - General Discussion#34 Dvsv09/16/2018, 12:02 AM
A game is meant to be fun, it's NOT meant to be a fkn frustating full time job.
That's what BHS failed hard to learn with Tera.
I'm pretty sure "too much grind" IS one of the reason why NA Tera lost half of it's playerbase on just 6 months.
They keep adding new "impossible grindy" gear every 3-6 months, old gear enchanting cost stay the same (but it's not BIS anymore!) and EME keep nerfing ways to farm enchanting mats ingame, just wtf...
Do you guys even remember when they released VM9 gear? Ambush was a lot cheaper to enchant (both desing prices and T11 fod farmind) cuz guess what? It was not BIS anymore!
And even with the mid-tier Misery gear it was VERY doable to clear VSHM!
Now with full FM+0 we can't even get VG reward for AINM lol.

That's why for me the easy gearing of VM6-VM8/Mongo days was NEVER ever been a real problem, cuz gear was ALWAYS disposable on a 6 month cycle on this game...
Gear is easy to get? You can always learn and gear another class, you can sell gear for gold, you can make the game fun!
Gear is impossible grindy to get? Ppl will quit the game or just move to EU lol.
I'm sorry to tell the truth, but spacecat was right all this time...

TERA PC - General Discussion#35 Elinu109/16/2018, 03:32 AM
Dvsv wrote: »
^The video above shows exactly what BHS think of their playerbase lol

A game is meant to be fun, it's NOT meant to be a fkn frustating full time job.
That's what BHS failed hard to learn with Tera.
I'm pretty sure "too much grind" IS one of the reason why NA Tera lost half of it's playerbase on just 6 months.
They keep adding new "impossible grindy" gear every 3-6 months, old gear enchanting cost stay the same (but it's not BIS anymore!) and EME keep nerfing ways to farm enchanting mats ingame, just wtf...
Do you guys even remember when they released VM9 gear? Ambush was a lot cheaper to enchant (both desing prices and T11 fod farmind) cuz guess what? It was not BIS anymore!
And even with the mid-tier Misery gear it was VERY doable to clear VSHM!
Now with full FM+0 we can't even get VG reward for AINM lol.

That's why imo the easy gearing of VM6-VM8/Mongo days was NEVER ever been a real problem, cuz gear was ALWAYS disposable on a 6 month cycle on this game...
Gear is easy to get? You can always learn and gear another class, you can sell gear for gold, you can make the game fun!
Gear is impossible grindy to get? Ppl will quit the game or just move to EU lol.
I'm sorry to tell the truth, but spacecats was right all this time...


Amen brother ^_^
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
5) The fact that EU doesn't have this problem is enough to debunk the idea that more tedious enchanting equals better players.
5) every region solves problems differently, but the problem i'm talking about is not the golden talent problem. it's the overgeared underskilled players who make imsing unenjoyable for people who are actually trying to learn their classes. EU has a far worse problem with that than NA.

Even though I don't agree with penguins, what he said is actually very much true. I'd say it's a byproduct of gearing being quite easy over there since players still have to do iod to get glyphs but booooooy does eu have a lot of bad players (a lot of elitist ones as well, but that's another story).

I outdpsed a staggering amount of sc players, even one ho slayer lol in +0 frost as a warrior, and while I am pretty decent at warrior I wouldn't really see this scenario as often on NA as I do on EU.

To go back to topic, I really wish better ways of obtaining golden talents were implemented, I've been complaining about this on the forums since rk9 came out and to no avail. I hope eme gets out of the "we want to make gearing as hard as possible" mindset sometime soon.
They should probably do something similar to EU.

Golden Plates drop in SSHM, Golden Darics drop in SSNM + You get Elleons mark of valor everywhere (50 for sshm/AAHM/RKHM/RMHM, 20 for easier dungeons)

100 Marks = 150 Golden Talents, 5 Goldfinger Tokens + Random loot
> @9YKAR5PDWF said:
> They should probably do something similar to EU.
>
> Golden Plates drop in SSHM, Golden Darics drop in SSNM + You get Elleons mark of valor everywhere (50 for sshm/AAHM/RKHM/RMHM, 20 for easier dungeons)
>
> 100 Marks = 150 Golden Talents, 5 Goldfinger Tokens + Random loot


They won't do this for whatever reason.

See i feel like if they were ever going to "fid this problem" theyd have done it by now or commincated that they are trying.

The other thing is why GameForge seems to be utterly allowed to do whatever they want but EME seemingly cannot.
TERA PC - General Discussion#39 kubitoid09/16/2018, 09:09 AM
i can sell you my gold talents for 65g per 1 if you r so desperate i dont need them that much :s :s
9YKAR5PDWF wrote: »
They should probably do something similar to EU.

Golden Plates drop in SSHM, Golden Darics drop in SSNM + You get Elleons mark of valor everywhere (50 for sshm/AAHM/RKHM/RMHM, 20 for easier dungeons)

100 Marks = 150 Golden Talents, 5 Goldfinger Tokens + Random loot

just fyi, you do get 2 golden plates from sshm and 2 darics from ssnm
TERA PC - General Discussion#41 Lapomko09/16/2018, 03:52 PM
Even the rich players can't even get their hands on the golden talents.. Because when you just buy them to yolo you will just basically empty the whole the 1/2 pages of listing.

Surprisingly alot of NA players are on EU Tera and their reason why was because some of them have better ping due to bad routing within USA seriously?? and don't wanna deal with xingcode and 70g whopping golden talent.
> @9YKAR5PDWF said:
> They should probably do something similar to EU.
>
> Golden Plates drop in SSHM, Golden Darics drop in SSNM + You get Elleons mark of valor everywhere (50 for sshm/AAHM/RKHM/RMHM, 20 for easier dungeons)
>
> 100 Marks = 150 Golden Talents, 5 Goldfinger Tokens + Random loot

Do those drops suffer the same RNG shenanigans like most everything else in the game? That is, it's a toss up who gets the darics/plates if they drop?

Aside: Jesus, this TextEX formatting sucks big portions of a**.
TBH the high price for talents is probably the main issue driving people away from the NA grindfest to EU

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeraOnline/comments/9gbtvb/switch_from_na_to_eu/

What is pretty sad is that this could be solved so easily. EME could just add gold talent mini-jackpot (say 1000-3000 talents to strongboxes) and/or introduce them to dungeon tokens.

Even players I know who are living in NA/SA are now making the swap.....
kubitoid wrote: »
i can sell you my gold talents for 65g per 1 if you r so desperate i dont need them that much :s :s
Lapomko wrote: »
Even the rich players can't even get their hands on the golden talents.. Because when you just buy them to yolo you will just basically empty the whole the 1/2 pages of listing.

Surprisingly alot of NA players are on EU Tera and their reason why was because some of them have better ping due to bad routing within USA seriously?? and don't wanna deal with xingcode and 70g whopping golden talent.

Yeah, I live in Northern Ohio, get 60 ping to NA, and only 90 ping to EU.

like... what?

TERA PC - General Discussion#45 Norafin09/16/2018, 09:37 PM
M6KPMHHLR3 wrote: »
The other thing is why GameForge seems to be utterly allowed to do whatever they want but EME seemingly cannot.

Simple: gameforge bought the license for the game, but is it's own company.
EME is a daughter of BHS. they're little more that BHS's american office, but with another name.
So GF gets the patches and can do whatever, EME gets told to do nothing.

Really, almost all blame on EME falls on BHS.
Norafin wrote: »
M6KPMHHLR3 wrote: »
The other thing is why GameForge seems to be utterly allowed to do whatever they want but EME seemingly cannot.

Simple: gameforge bought the license for the game, but is it's own company.
EME is a daughter of BHS. they're little more that BHS's american office, but with another name.
So GF gets the patches and can do whatever, EME gets told to do nothing.

Really, almost all blame on EME falls on BHS.

I used to think this, but I asked Spacecats some questions about how much freedom EME gets, and he said they were never restricted, just advised.
TERA PC - General Discussion#47 kamizuma09/16/2018, 10:48 PM
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price
kamizuma wrote: »
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price

This is what I don't get to be perfectly honest. People act like the price is that high because the supply is so utterly constrained -- which is partly true -- but who is buying it? If no one were buying it at that price, it would drop. People are just selling for as much as they can get away with, no different than in any other market. Sure, EME could flood the market with talents to force the price down, but again -- someone is buying it at these prices. And for people who aren't so desperate to gear buy find ways to farm talents, they are making a killing feeding this demand at these prices.

Obviously I get that the efficient ways to farm talents are boring stuff that many people don't want to do, but some people are doing it, and they're making lots of gold. So this is really less about talents itself, but about the fact that BHS decided that high-end content should be a resource-sink, and low-end/solo farming content is a resource generator.
TERA PC - General Discussion#49 kamizuma09/16/2018, 11:19 PM
kamizuma wrote: »
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price

This is what I don't get to be perfectly honest. People act like the price is that high because the supply is so utterly constrained -- which is partly true -- but who is buying it? If no one were buying it at that price, it would drop. People are just selling for as much as they can get away with, no different than in any other market. Sure, EME could flood the market with talents to force the price down, but again -- someone is buying it at these prices. And for people who aren't so desperate to gear buy find ways to farm talents, they are making a killing feeding this demand at these prices.

Obviously I get that the efficient ways to farm talents are boring stuff that many people don't want to do, but some people are doing it, and they're making lots of gold. So this is really less about talents itself, but about the fact that BHS decided that high-end content should be a resource-sink, and low-end/solo farming content is a resource generator.

that and also when you're buying progression materials off other people then you're basically telling them to give up their progression for your's. If the price is going up then that means people are valuing their own progression more than other's (buyers are paying more/buying instead of farming it themselves AND sellers are either using it for themselves or selling even higher).

BTW for all the people still progressing their gear, I strongly suggest just selling your talents/plates and buying pre-enchanted stormcry gear. Coincidentally, I am selling over 70 stormcry +7-9 items :) Don't bother with rng when you can get what you want 100% of the time!
kamizuma wrote: »
that and also when you're buying progression materials off other people then you're basically telling them to give up their progression for your's. If the price is going up then that means people are valuing their own progression more than other's (buyers are paying more/buying instead of farming it themselves AND sellers are either using it for themselves or selling even higher).

Clearly there's a portion of the playerbase who just says "screw progression, I'm just going to farm these talents and make a crapload of gold to buy costumes" or whatever. And in a twisted way, this is creating an economy -- where the "working class" is siphoning gold off the elites doing the high-end content. Not saying that it's healthy over the long term... but it has created a sort of twisted economic system.
kamizuma wrote: »
kamizuma wrote: »
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price

This is what I don't get to be perfectly honest. People act like the price is that high because the supply is so utterly constrained -- which is partly true -- but who is buying it? If no one were buying it at that price, it would drop. People are just selling for as much as they can get away with, no different than in any other market. Sure, EME could flood the market with talents to force the price down, but again -- someone is buying it at these prices. And for people who aren't so desperate to gear buy find ways to farm talents, they are making a killing feeding this demand at these prices.

Obviously I get that the efficient ways to farm talents are boring stuff that many people don't want to do, but some people are doing it, and they're making lots of gold. So this is really less about talents itself, but about the fact that BHS decided that high-end content should be a resource-sink, and low-end/solo farming content is a resource generator.

that and also when you're buying progression materials off other people then you're basically telling them to give up their progression for your's. If the price is going up then that means people are valuing their own progression more than other's (buyers are paying more/buying instead of farming it themselves AND sellers are either using it for themselves or selling even higher).

BTW for all the people still progressing their gear, I strongly suggest just selling your talents/plates and buying pre-enchanted stormcry gear. Coincidentally, I am selling over 70 stormcry +7-9 items :) Don't bother with rng when you can get what you want 100% of the time!

Yes, I totally agree that to buy a +9 Weapon for approximately 1.7 million, it is worth me selling the equivalent of 3837 Golden Plates OR 8585 Golden Darics OR 21794 Golden Talents, when you'd expect to be done enchanting the thing from +8 to +9 for less.

I get the certainty argument, but that was a massive sales pitch.
TERA PC - General Discussion#52 kamizuma09/17/2018, 01:04 AM
clfarron4 wrote: »
kamizuma wrote: »
kamizuma wrote: »
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price

This is what I don't get to be perfectly honest. People act like the price is that high because the supply is so utterly constrained -- which is partly true -- but who is buying it? If no one were buying it at that price, it would drop. People are just selling for as much as they can get away with, no different than in any other market. Sure, EME could flood the market with talents to force the price down, but again -- someone is buying it at these prices. And for people who aren't so desperate to gear buy find ways to farm talents, they are making a killing feeding this demand at these prices.

Obviously I get that the efficient ways to farm talents are boring stuff that many people don't want to do, but some people are doing it, and they're making lots of gold. So this is really less about talents itself, but about the fact that BHS decided that high-end content should be a resource-sink, and low-end/solo farming content is a resource generator.

that and also when you're buying progression materials off other people then you're basically telling them to give up their progression for your's. If the price is going up then that means people are valuing their own progression more than other's (buyers are paying more/buying instead of farming it themselves AND sellers are either using it for themselves or selling even higher).

BTW for all the people still progressing their gear, I strongly suggest just selling your talents/plates and buying pre-enchanted stormcry gear. Coincidentally, I am selling over 70 stormcry +7-9 items :) Don't bother with rng when you can get what you want 100% of the time!

Yes, I totally agree that to buy a +9 Weapon for approximately 1.7 million, it is worth me selling the equivalent of 3837 Golden Plates OR 8585 Golden Darics OR 21794 Golden Talents, when you'd expect to be done enchanting the thing from +8 to +9 for less.

I get the certainty argument, but that was a massive sales pitch.

smart thing to do --> get your gear to +7 (if you're already halfway through stormcry and feel "trapped into it") then liberate and sell it. Now there's only ~500k-850k difference (depending on armor/weapon piece) between your +7 sold price and buying a +9 of that piece. Spending 500k-850k to go from 7 to 9 with 100% guarantee is pretty worth, especially when you heroic oath your gear as the main advantage of enchanting yourself (being able to liberate it) is lost once you heroic oath anyways.

Oh and you can make even more gold nowadays from selling those talents you won't need anymore as other people try to enchant their own gear lul. easy game easy life
TERA PC - General Discussion#53 Piltover09/17/2018, 01:13 AM
just 1tap ur gear lol
kamizuma wrote: »
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price
kamizuma wrote: »
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price

This is what I don't get to be perfectly honest. People act like the price is that high because the supply is so utterly constrained -- which is partly true -- but who is buying it? If no one were buying it at that price, it would drop. People are just selling for as much as they can get away with, no different than in any other market. Sure, EME could flood the market with talents to force the price down, but again -- someone is buying it at these prices. And for people who aren't so desperate to gear but find ways to farm talents, they are making a killing feeding this demand at these prices.

Obviously I get that the efficient ways to farm talents are boring stuff that many people don't want to do, but some people are doing it, and they're making lots of gold. So this is really less about talents itself, but about the fact that BHS decided that high-end content should be a resource-sink, and low-end/solo farming content is a resource generator.

"Life saving drugs that people need to not die from cancer costs $2,000 per month but only costs $2 to make, if people weren't willing to buy it, then it wouldn't cost so much, huh?"

Do you get where I'm going with that? I HAVE to spend that much on golden talents because I have no other choice, the whole premise of your idea depends on a free market with open competition, but there is NO competition. I can't just buy golden talents from Joe Schmo instead of Lily Billy because the prices are better or Lily has better customer relations, or whatever. These are items that are REQUIRED to continue to play the game, of course people are going to continue buying them.
TERA PC - General Discussion#55 kamizuma09/17/2018, 06:35 AM
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
kamizuma wrote: »
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price
kamizuma wrote: »
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price

This is what I don't get to be perfectly honest. People act like the price is that high because the supply is so utterly constrained -- which is partly true -- but who is buying it? If no one were buying it at that price, it would drop. People are just selling for as much as they can get away with, no different than in any other market. Sure, EME could flood the market with talents to force the price down, but again -- someone is buying it at these prices. And for people who aren't so desperate to gear but find ways to farm talents, they are making a killing feeding this demand at these prices.

Obviously I get that the efficient ways to farm talents are boring stuff that many people don't want to do, but some people are doing it, and they're making lots of gold. So this is really less about talents itself, but about the fact that BHS decided that high-end content should be a resource-sink, and low-end/solo farming content is a resource generator.

"Life saving drugs that people need to not die from cancer costs $2,000 per month but only costs $2 to make, if people weren't willing to buy it, then it wouldn't cost so much, huh?"

Do you get where I'm going with that? I HAVE to spend that much on golden talents because I have no other choice, the whole premise of your idea depends on a free market with open competition, but there is NO competition. I can't just buy golden talents from Joe Schmo instead of Lily Billy because the prices are better or Lily has better customer relations, or whatever. These are items that are REQUIRED to continue to play the game, of course people are going to continue buying them.

yeah but in Tera you can make your own life saving drugs (farm them yourself).
kamizuma wrote: »
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
kamizuma wrote: »
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price
kamizuma wrote: »
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price

This is what I don't get to be perfectly honest. People act like the price is that high because the supply is so utterly constrained -- which is partly true -- but who is buying it? If no one were buying it at that price, it would drop. People are just selling for as much as they can get away with, no different than in any other market. Sure, EME could flood the market with talents to force the price down, but again -- someone is buying it at these prices. And for people who aren't so desperate to gear but find ways to farm talents, they are making a killing feeding this demand at these prices.

Obviously I get that the efficient ways to farm talents are boring stuff that many people don't want to do, but some people are doing it, and they're making lots of gold. So this is really less about talents itself, but about the fact that BHS decided that high-end content should be a resource-sink, and low-end/solo farming content is a resource generator.

"Life saving drugs that people need to not die from cancer costs $2,000 per month but only costs $2 to make, if people weren't willing to buy it, then it wouldn't cost so much, huh?"

Do you get where I'm going with that? I HAVE to spend that much on golden talents because I have no other choice, the whole premise of your idea depends on a free market with open competition, but there is NO competition. I can't just buy golden talents from Joe Schmo instead of Lily Billy because the prices are better or Lily has better customer relations, or whatever. These are items that are REQUIRED to continue to play the game, of course people are going to continue buying them.

yeah but in Tera you can make your own life saving drugs (farm them yourself).

In absolutely no reasonable rate whatsoever. In real life, I can also go to Thailand and buy the exact same drugs for literal pennies, but that doesn't mean it's feasible. Just like real life, TERA's market needs rules and regulations in order to make sure the common class can afford to actually live. I'm just laughing at this whole conversation, because you're literally the Jeff Bezos of the TERA community, even down to this exact conversation just mimics Jeff perfectly. "I care about the working class, I just don't want them to be paid more so they can actually afford to live comfortably."
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
kamizuma wrote: »
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
kamizuma wrote: »
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price
kamizuma wrote: »
clearly there are people willing to pay the increased price

This is what I don't get to be perfectly honest. People act like the price is that high because the supply is so utterly constrained -- which is partly true -- but who is buying it? If no one were buying it at that price, it would drop. People are just selling for as much as they can get away with, no different than in any other market. Sure, EME could flood the market with talents to force the price down, but again -- someone is buying it at these prices. And for people who aren't so desperate to gear but find ways to farm talents, they are making a killing feeding this demand at these prices.

Obviously I get that the efficient ways to farm talents are boring stuff that many people don't want to do, but some people are doing it, and they're making lots of gold. So this is really less about talents itself, but about the fact that BHS decided that high-end content should be a resource-sink, and low-end/solo farming content is a resource generator.

"Life saving drugs that people need to not die from cancer costs $2,000 per month but only costs $2 to make, if people weren't willing to buy it, then it wouldn't cost so much, huh?"

Do you get where I'm going with that? I HAVE to spend that much on golden talents because I have no other choice, the whole premise of your idea depends on a free market with open competition, but there is NO competition. I can't just buy golden talents from Joe Schmo instead of Lily Billy because the prices are better or Lily has better customer relations, or whatever. These are items that are REQUIRED to continue to play the game, of course people are going to continue buying them.

yeah but in Tera you can make your own life saving drugs (farm them yourself).

In absolutely no reasonable rate whatsoever. In real life, I can also go to Thailand and buy the exact same drugs for literal pennies, but that doesn't mean it's feasible. Just like real life, TERA's market needs rules and regulations in order to make sure the common class can afford to actually live.

Well, honestly though, this is the whole problem in an nutshell. According to BHS's intended design for the game, high-end gear is supposed to be a luxury that you're supposed to work a long time to achieve, and have to (in part) farm low end content to earn. So right now, there is a group of players who don't have the skills or the connections to do high-end content, but they still want to earn gold, and they can get it by grinding solo content (and selling talents, in demand from high-end players who don't want to farm). If you flip the balance on its head somehow and make it so that it's easier to earn all the needed materials purely by doing high-end content, these solo players won't be as able to earn gold.

But anyway, the real problem isn't supply-and-demand exactly, it's that this isn't real life and these aren't life-saving drugs or anything that people need. People who don't like the options they're presented to them (and don't want to farm tedious content or spend months and months slowly gearing up) will just quit the game. I guess the point of my observation is just that there is a sort of logic to this economic system they created... but it's probably just a poor fit for this market. And, after past bad experiences, my take is that EME doesn't have the confidence to create their own separate economic balance that won't just break things.
Well, honestly though, this is the whole problem in an nutshell. According to BHS's intended design for the game, high-end gear is supposed to be a luxury that you're supposed to work a long time to achieve, and have to (in part) farm low end content to earn. So right now, there is a group of players who don't have the skills or the connections to do high-end content, but they still want to earn gold, and they can get it by grinding solo content (and selling talents, in demand from high-end players who don't want to farm). If you flip the balance on its head somehow and make it so that it's easier to earn all the needed materials purely by doing high-end content, these solo players won't be as able to earn gold.

But anyway, the real problem isn't supply-and-demand exactly, it's that this isn't real life and these aren't life-saving drugs or anything that people need. People who don't like the options they're presented to them (and don't want to farm tedious content or spend months and months slowly gearing up) will just quit the game. I guess the point of my observation is just that there is a sort of logic to this economic system they created... but it's probably just a poor fit for this market. And, after past bad experiences, my take is that EME doesn't have the confidence to create their own separate economic balance that won't just break things.

I'm gonna break down this post as if in multiple conversations.

"According to BHS's intended design for the game, high-end gear is supposed to be a luxury that you're supposed to work a long time to achieve, and have to (in part) farm low end content to earn."

This simply isn't true considering that golden talents in Korea cost on average 15 gold. Even though they require much more golden talents/golden plates for +3 enchants, their costs are still that much lower. Imagine in a few months when people will have to buy out half the market for a single enchant attempt to +1 HO.

"So right now, there is a group of players who don't have the skills or the connections to do high-end content, but they still want to earn gold, and they can get it by grinding solo content (and selling talents, in demand from high-end players who don't want to farm)."

Also not true, I have the skill to clear AAHM, I've played my class at a top level and have reached top 5 spots with warrior on Moongourd, and even ninja with DSU when teradps was a site. But my ilvl dictates that I cannot earn rewards from dungeons like AAHM, despite the fact that I can clear it.

"If you flip the balance on its head somehow and make it so that it's easier to earn all the needed materials purely by doing high-end content, these solo players won't be as able to earn gold."

That isn't the argument whatsoever. I don't know if you've checked out how the system works in EU, but basically they get their own equivalent of dungeon delver coins from ALL dungeons, and they can buy a decent amount of golden talents, silver talents, and a few other items with the tokens. These can be obtained from low ilvl dungeons, but are obtained at a higher rate in higher ilvl dungeons.

"But anyway, the real problem isn't supply-and-demand exactly, it's that this isn't real life and these aren't life-saving drugs or anything that people need. People who don't like the options they're presented to them (and don't want to farm tedious content or spend months and months slowly gearing up) will just quit the game."

So......... how is this healthy for the game's long term? Your argument isn't a positive here, if anything it sounds like you're arguing for me.

"I guess the point of my observation is just that there is a sort of logic to this economic system they created... but it's probably just a poor fit for this market."

I disagree that there is any logic to it. I honestly 100% think that due to TERA being as late into it's life as it is and them suddenly receiving a new product manager, community manager, and support staff, and the fact that the product manager and the people who work under him works on more than just TERA, they just haven't properly figured out how they should be pumping the market. BHS has created a semi-complicated system that only people who pay attention will understand how it works, but the EME employees have had no obligation to learn that fact.

"And, after past bad experiences, my take is that EME doesn't have the confidence to create their own separate economic balance that won't just break things. "

Which is exactly why I made this post, they need to be pushed, obviously the slowly dying player base isn't motivating them, and this is the only thing that we as players can do.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
This simply isn't true considering that golden talents in Korea cost on average 15 gold. Even though they require much more golden talents/golden plates for +3 enchants, their costs are still that much lower. Imagine in a few months when people will have to buy out half the market for a single enchant attempt to +1 HO.

That actually doesn't disprove the model at all. If players in K-TERA are more willing to farm lower end content for talents than players here, that would explain the price. It's just supply and demand, after all.

T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
Also not true, I have the skill to clear AAHM, I've played my class at a top level and have reached top 5 spots with warrior on [an illegal site], and even ninja with DSU when [another illegal site] was a site. But my ilvl dictates that I cannot earn rewards from dungeons like AAHM, despite the fact that I can clear it.

I wasn't referring to you in that. I was referring to players who don't have the skill to clear the content and are earning gold by just farming low end content and selling stuff. They are also part of this economic scheme.

T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
That isn't the argument whatsoever. I don't know if you've checked out how the system works in EU, but basically they get their own equivalent of dungeon delver coins from ALL dungeons, and they can buy a decent amount of golden talents, silver talents, and a few other items with the tokens. These can be obtained from low ilvl dungeons, but are obtained at a higher rate in higher ilvl dungeons.

But it is the effect... kind of. It's all about balance. That economic system means that people can't just stay at a low level and earn a good gold income. It pushes people towards higher-end content. It'll have some consequences too, including an increased amount of lower-skilled players trying higher-end content (because otherwise their gold-earning is capped). I'm not saying that's a bad, but it does have some consequences that need to be carefully balanced.

T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
So......... how is this healthy for the game's long term? Your argument isn't a positive here, if anything it sounds like you're arguing for me.

I'm not arguing either for or against you. I'm arguing the merits of the current system vs. the merits of the proposed system. Every proposal has trade-offs. Kamizuma is right that an economic system has created itself, and people are buying talents at the asked-for prices -- which means others are making lots of gold selling talents at that price. So if you start messing with the levers, it will have wide-ranging consequences that aren't just what's immediately obvious.

T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
I disagree that there is any logic to it. I honestly 100% think that due to TERA being as late into it's life as it is and them suddenly receiving a new product manager, community manager, and support staff, and the fact that the product manager and the people who work under him works on more than just TERA, they just haven't properly figured out how they should be pumping the market. BHS has created a semi-complicated system that only people who pay attention will understand how it works, but the EME employees have had no obligation to learn that fact.

EME made a very conscious decision, when the near gear cycle hit, that they were going to stick to K-TERA's game balance. It was in reaction to the previous gear cycle where EME made a deliberate decision to inject mats into the game all the time to ease the gearing process, and created an escalating pattern where each event had to be more rewarding than the last to be seen as worthwhile. I do think that enough time has passed now so they can see and feel the results of that deliberate decision, and make course corrections.
I was thinking about it today and I came to remember trying EU some six months and it was all nice with the gold talent being cheap but at the same time it was also a down side because it was much harder to farm gold and buy things such as the tera club ( elite voucher ) which was at the time and still probably is around 300k gold -OR- costumes/mounts/weaponskins/etc.. And i also remember having a harder time to acquire gems since guardians was some sort of options because it was so much harder on undergeared alts..

So i kinda like the current economy because i can farm a lot of gold and spend a lot of gold on enchanting but i can also afford at the same time to buy other stuff like gems or even vouchers/costumes/weaponskins/mounts/etc..


p.s. what sucks is that kc/sf/rg got nerfed and we lost a reliable supply
If talents is at 10g, you think people will be willing to farm 30-40mins to make 1K gold? Doing a single 439 dungeons will simply yield more. So the notion that, there are simply more K-tera players willing to farm IoD, is not in the least believable. They must have other sources somewhere else.

And I want to add that the lack of talent not only created an illogical economy but also slows down the gear progression of the entire player base.

Low-end players will halt their gear progression completely and sell talents to make gold, all the while playing an insane boring game, which involves killing useless BAMS for months. High-end players will have to slow down their progression simply because it costs them too much to be able to do it more often.

Demand for talent greatly outstrips supply, that's why talents sit at 80g, not the usual 10-15g like all other regions that I know of (KTera, EU, RU). So Enmasse, out of their own incompetency, has created a unique economy balance, which is totally broken and drives players to quit.

Well you may try to excuse them that they are new so they don't know jack about the game. But hasn't it been like half a year since they replaced spacecats? How long should the community wait for them to actually try and learn their own game? And don't forget they lied about GF breaking embargo to save faces. Not even an apologize and instead locking threads without any reason why. Can anyone ever trust them? I, for once, won't.
VirtualON wrote: »
If talents is at 10g, you think people will be willing to farm 30-40mins to make 1K gold? Doing a single 439 dungeons will simply yield more. So the notion that, there are simply more K-tera players willing to farm IoD, is not in the least believable. They must have other sources somewhere else.

We get a pretty regular heads-up on pretty much everything K-TERA is doing, including region-specific stuff, and as far as I know we have gotten the economic changes K-TERA had nearly verbatim, although EME has added some extra rewards to Dreadspire and via jackpots here and there. There may be other additional factors that impact the economic balance here, like the overall supply of gold that carried over from the past, or other things, but I've not heard of anything different that K-TERA is doing to inject supply of talents. If anyone knows, though, it would be helpful (since, if K-TERA is doing something, it will probably help EME's case to do the same).
VirtualON wrote: »
If talents is at 10g, you think people will be willing to farm 30-40mins to make 1K gold? Doing a single 439 dungeons will simply yield more. So the notion that, there are simply more K-tera players willing to farm IoD, is not in the least believable. They must have other sources somewhere else.

We get a pretty regular heads-up on pretty much everything K-TERA is doing, including region-specific stuff, and as far as I know we have gotten the economic changes K-TERA had nearly verbatim, although EME has added some extra rewards to Dreadspire and via jackpots here and there. There may be other additional factors that impact the economic balance here, like the overall supply of gold that carried over from the past, or other things, but I've not heard of anything different that K-TERA is doing to inject supply of talents. If anyone knows, though, it would be helpful (since, if K-TERA is doing something, it will probably help EME's case to do the same).

Loriri and co. don't talk about the specific events that KTERA has and many things like vanguards rewards that are region specific. I personally play KTERA from time to time just to try out new updates, and the amount of events they have constantly ongoing is insane compared to NA.
SO now it is player's job to log in to Ktera and report back whatever events Ktera is doing to keep a balanced economy, so EME may or may not be able to implement it in NA.

How about just add gold /silver talent to dungeon coins, ratio 1:1 or 2:1?
TERA PC - General Discussion#65 Dvsv09/17/2018, 01:12 PM
HLK76PFWXT wrote: »

So i kinda like the current economy because i can farm a lot of gold and spend a lot of gold on enchanting but i can also afford at the same time to buy other stuff like gems or even vouchers/costumes/weaponskins/mounts/etc..


p.s. what sucks is that kc/sf/rg got nerfed and we lost a reliable supply
I never ever understand this logic.
If you're farming gold selling enchanting mats (talents/gems), then you're not gearing, you gonna be stuck on Twist/Frost forever.
And even if you outright buy the gear with the gold farmed, eventually prices will rise cuz of the lack of golden talents.

It's the same flawed logic since Mongos days: "Oh no EME will crash MES/Feedstock price and free players will not be able to farm gold!"
In fact, the truck load of mats that EME put in the economy back in Mongo days is what made possible for a lot of free players to gear to Starfall+15 and now i also think it was what made a lot of non p2w ppl to stick longer with this game (and not the other way arround!)..

You want to both farm gold and gear yourself in this game? Be a P2W player and just sell EMP/costumes for gold!
Cuz if you're a free player/casual spender, even if you're done gearing you can't just sell all your mats cuz they keep releasing grindier and grindier gear each 6 months...


At the moment MT has 1 page of golden talents on broker and only 3 people selling them. If thats not a shortage of golden talents , then idk what is
TERA PC - General Discussion#67 Ellexem09/17/2018, 02:42 PM
A7GLPNDYPN wrote: »
At the moment MT has 1 page of golden talents on broker and only 3 people selling them. If thats not a shortage of golden talents , then idk what is

We're about 15h20m away from the start of the merge. Bad time to expect the broker to be at all reflective of reality right now. People had to delist their things to transfer. Prices are also bound to be highly unstable after the merge, as the clashing economies work out a new equilibrium, so it seems far more likely that people removed the items so as to not get caught up in the price fluctuations.

Please note that this isn't meant to say that things are fine, just that the current state of the broker doesn't seem to something that can be taken as representative of the situation.
TERA PC - General Discussion#68 TJKat09/17/2018, 03:11 PM
And, after past bad experiences, my take is that EME doesn't have the confidence to create their own separate economic balance that won't just break things.

Didn't @SingleBear flat out state this a few streams ago? Didn't he outright state that he won't be giving us the regular triple vanguard events we were promised at the beginning of the year because he didn't want to do anything that might alter the in-game economy? Of course ignoring the fact that they've already done several things this year (removing permanent double vanguards, emptying the cash shop) that have had a huge negative impact on the economy.
TJKat wrote: »
And, after past bad experiences, my take is that EME doesn't have the confidence to create their own separate economic balance that won't just break things.

Didn't @SingleBear flat out state this a few streams ago? Didn't he outright state that he won't be giving us the regular triple vanguard events we were promised at the beginning of the year because he didn't want to do anything that might alter the in-game economy? Of course ignoring the fact that they've already done several things this year (removing permanent double vanguards, emptying the cash shop) that have had a huge negative impact on the economy.

That was considering the recent gold inflation caused by the Master Additive events (which made Diamonds super accessible), which resulted in the NA material balance being gem heavy instead of Talent heavy. And the economy hasn't recovered from that due to the scale of the inflation.

Contrast this with every other region, including KR, which is golden talent heavy and light on gems.

====
Dvsv wrote: »
HLK76PFWXT wrote: »

So i kinda like the current economy because i can farm a lot of gold and spend a lot of gold on enchanting but i can also afford at the same time to buy other stuff like gems or even vouchers/costumes/weaponskins/mounts/etc..


p.s. what sucks is that kc/sf/rg got nerfed and we lost a reliable supply

And for EME: NA is NOT K-Tera, maybe you're only just eroding all your playerbase with this grindy mindset from korea...

I am going to refer you to this.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
VirtualON wrote: »
If talents is at 10g, you think people will be willing to farm 30-40mins to make 1K gold? Doing a single 439 dungeons will simply yield more. So the notion that, there are simply more K-tera players willing to farm IoD, is not in the least believable. They must have other sources somewhere else.

We get a pretty regular heads-up on pretty much everything K-TERA is doing, including region-specific stuff, and as far as I know we have gotten the economic changes K-TERA had nearly verbatim, although EME has added some extra rewards to Dreadspire and via jackpots here and there. There may be other additional factors that impact the economic balance here, like the overall supply of gold that carried over from the past, or other things, but I've not heard of anything different that K-TERA is doing to inject supply of talents. If anyone knows, though, it would be helpful (since, if K-TERA is doing something, it will probably help EME's case to do the same).

Loriri and co. don't talk about the specific events that KTERA has and many things like vanguards rewards that are region specific. I personally play KTERA from time to time just to try out new updates, and the amount of events they have constantly ongoing is insane compared to NA.

NA is worse than KTERA because of the events that are run on KTERA specifically to increase the supply of materials like Golden Talents. It's actually gotten to the point where NA TERA is the worst region worldwide for gaining enchanting materials through gameplay.
Easy solution is to have Delver coins permanent on all dungeons giving respectively the amount of coins due to its difficulty and adding talent boxes as EU has with Elleon Mark. Or you know... double vanguard permanent. Brain dead low bam farm, FUN!
5 pages of comments and there's less than a hand full of people who actually disagree with the sentiment and believe that nothing should be done. Can you not see that a good amount of the community doesn't think the current situation is ideal either? @KitTeaCup @SingleBear
I still think that something like we had on vanguard rewards in the past could be better choice for us right now with this new gear to come.

Right now a good example are SSN and SSH, thats the way dungeons should be about drops and rewards.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
VirtualON wrote: »
If talents is at 10g, you think people will be willing to farm 30-40mins to make 1K gold? Doing a single 439 dungeons will simply yield more. So the notion that, there are simply more K-tera players willing to farm IoD, is not in the least believable. They must have other sources somewhere else.

We get a pretty regular heads-up on pretty much everything K-TERA is doing, including region-specific stuff, and as far as I know we have gotten the economic changes K-TERA had nearly verbatim, although EME has added some extra rewards to Dreadspire and via jackpots here and there. There may be other additional factors that impact the economic balance here, like the overall supply of gold that carried over from the past, or other things, but I've not heard of anything different that K-TERA is doing to inject supply of talents. If anyone knows, though, it would be helpful (since, if K-TERA is doing something, it will probably help EME's case to do the same).

Loriri and co. don't talk about the specific events that KTERA has and many things like vanguards rewards that are region specific. I personally play KTERA from time to time just to try out new updates, and the amount of events they have constantly ongoing is insane compared to NA.

Can you provide some specific examples of the sorts of events they are running that impact the supply of talents?

T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
Can you not see that a good amount of the community doesn't think the current situation is ideal either?

This topic has come up repeatedly for many months now, both on the forums and in Player Council chat, in almost every stream, and all the time. You don't need to aggressively @ them as if they don't know. They know. What they're willing to do about it is another issue. That's why I want to try to get specific examples of what other regions are doing to specifically address this problem through events.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
VirtualON wrote: »
If talents is at 10g, you think people will be willing to farm 30-40mins to make 1K gold? Doing a single 439 dungeons will simply yield more. So the notion that, there are simply more K-tera players willing to farm IoD, is not in the least believable. They must have other sources somewhere else.

We get a pretty regular heads-up on pretty much everything K-TERA is doing, including region-specific stuff, and as far as I know we have gotten the economic changes K-TERA had nearly verbatim, although EME has added some extra rewards to Dreadspire and via jackpots here and there. There may be other additional factors that impact the economic balance here, like the overall supply of gold that carried over from the past, or other things, but I've not heard of anything different that K-TERA is doing to inject supply of talents. If anyone knows, though, it would be helpful (since, if K-TERA is doing something, it will probably help EME's case to do the same).

Loriri and co. don't talk about the specific events that KTERA has and many things like vanguards rewards that are region specific. I personally play KTERA from time to time just to try out new updates, and the amount of events they have constantly ongoing is insane compared to NA.

Can you provide some specific examples of the sorts of events they are running that impact the supply of talents?

T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
Can you not see that a good amount of the community doesn't think the current situation is ideal either?

This topic has come up repeatedly for many months now, both on the forums and in Player Council chat, in almost every stream, and all the time. You don't need to aggressively @ them as if they don't know. They know. What they're willing to do about it is another issue. That's why I want to try to get specific examples of what other regions are doing to specifically address this problem through events.



I can't speak for K-tera but I know over on EU every couple of months they hold a level up event. If you get to 65 you get a package of gear and golden and silver talents. I remember at one point I had a stack of 2000 golden talents and 1000 silver talents on there.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
VirtualON wrote: »
If talents is at 10g, you think people will be willing to farm 30-40mins to make 1K gold? Doing a single 439 dungeons will simply yield more. So the notion that, there are simply more K-tera players willing to farm IoD, is not in the least believable. They must have other sources somewhere else.

We get a pretty regular heads-up on pretty much everything K-TERA is doing, including region-specific stuff, and as far as I know we have gotten the economic changes K-TERA had nearly verbatim, although EME has added some extra rewards to Dreadspire and via jackpots here and there. There may be other additional factors that impact the economic balance here, like the overall supply of gold that carried over from the past, or other things, but I've not heard of anything different that K-TERA is doing to inject supply of talents. If anyone knows, though, it would be helpful (since, if K-TERA is doing something, it will probably help EME's case to do the same).

Loriri and co. don't talk about the specific events that KTERA has and many things like vanguards rewards that are region specific. I personally play KTERA from time to time just to try out new updates, and the amount of events they have constantly ongoing is insane compared to NA.

Can you provide some specific examples of the sorts of events they are running that impact the supply of talents?

T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
Can you not see that a good amount of the community doesn't think the current situation is ideal either?

This topic has come up repeatedly for many months now, both on the forums and in Player Council chat, in almost every stream, and all the time. You don't need to aggressively @ them as if they don't know. They know. What they're willing to do about it is another issue. That's why I want to try to get specific examples of what other regions are doing to specifically address this problem through events.



I can't speak for K-tera but I know over on EU every couple of months they hold a level up event. If you get to 65 you get a package of gear and golden and silver talents. I remember at one point I had a stack of 2000 golden talents and 1000 silver talents on there.

Yeah, I'm aware of the EU events. Some of the events they've done I'm not sure I 100% agree with (or at least some of the ways they implemented them seem a bit like it'd have unintended consequences), but on the whole I see what they're trying to do. But I'm not sure what K-TERA is doing specifically, and I'm more interested in that since EME has said they were trying to stick closer to BHS's intended balance/design. (Granted I guess they could argue that Nexon KR isn't BHS's intended design either.) I do know that K-TERA has done some events for PC Bang customers, but that's a bit of a special case.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
VirtualON wrote: »
If talents is at 10g, you think people will be willing to farm 30-40mins to make 1K gold? Doing a single 439 dungeons will simply yield more. So the notion that, there are simply more K-tera players willing to farm IoD, is not in the least believable. They must have other sources somewhere else.

We get a pretty regular heads-up on pretty much everything K-TERA is doing, including region-specific stuff, and as far as I know we have gotten the economic changes K-TERA had nearly verbatim, although EME has added some extra rewards to Dreadspire and via jackpots here and there. There may be other additional factors that impact the economic balance here, like the overall supply of gold that carried over from the past, or other things, but I've not heard of anything different that K-TERA is doing to inject supply of talents. If anyone knows, though, it would be helpful (since, if K-TERA is doing something, it will probably help EME's case to do the same).

Loriri and co. don't talk about the specific events that KTERA has and many things like vanguards rewards that are region specific. I personally play KTERA from time to time just to try out new updates, and the amount of events they have constantly ongoing is insane compared to NA.

Can you provide some specific examples of the sorts of events they are running that impact the supply of talents?

T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
Can you not see that a good amount of the community doesn't think the current situation is ideal either?

This topic has come up repeatedly for many months now, both on the forums and in Player Council chat, in almost every stream, and all the time. You don't need to aggressively @ them as if they don't know. They know. What they're willing to do about it is another issue. That's why I want to try to get specific examples of what other regions are doing to specifically address this problem through events.



I can't speak for K-tera but I know over on EU every couple of months they hold a level up event. If you get to 65 you get a package of gear and golden and silver talents. I remember at one point I had a stack of 2000 golden talents and 1000 silver talents on there.

Yeah, I'm aware of the EU events. Some of the events they've done I'm not sure I 100% agree with (or at least some of the ways they implemented them seem a bit like it'd have unintended consequences), but on the whole I see what they're trying to do. But I'm not sure what K-TERA is doing specifically, and I'm more interested in that since EME has said they were trying to stick closer to BHS's intended balance/design. (Granted I guess they could argue that Nexon KR isn't BHS's intended design either.) I do know that K-TERA has done some events for PC Bang customers, but that's a bit of a special case.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
VirtualON wrote: »
If talents is at 10g, you think people will be willing to farm 30-40mins to make 1K gold? Doing a single 439 dungeons will simply yield more. So the notion that, there are simply more K-tera players willing to farm IoD, is not in the least believable. They must have other sources somewhere else.

We get a pretty regular heads-up on pretty much everything K-TERA is doing, including region-specific stuff, and as far as I know we have gotten the economic changes K-TERA had nearly verbatim, although EME has added some extra rewards to Dreadspire and via jackpots here and there. There may be other additional factors that impact the economic balance here, like the overall supply of gold that carried over from the past, or other things, but I've not heard of anything different that K-TERA is doing to inject supply of talents. If anyone knows, though, it would be helpful (since, if K-TERA is doing something, it will probably help EME's case to do the same).

Loriri and co. don't talk about the specific events that KTERA has and many things like vanguards rewards that are region specific. I personally play KTERA from time to time just to try out new updates, and the amount of events they have constantly ongoing is insane compared to NA.

Can you provide some specific examples of the sorts of events they are running that impact the supply of talents?

T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
Can you not see that a good amount of the community doesn't think the current situation is ideal either?

This topic has come up repeatedly for many months now, both on the forums and in Player Council chat, in almost every stream, and all the time. You don't need to aggressively @ them as if they don't know. They know. What they're willing to do about it is another issue. That's why I want to try to get specific examples of what other regions are doing to specifically address this problem through events.



I can't speak for K-tera but I know over on EU every couple of months they hold a level up event. If you get to 65 you get a package of gear and golden and silver talents. I remember at one point I had a stack of 2000 golden talents and 1000 silver talents on there.

Yeah, I'm aware of the EU events. Some of the events they've done I'm not sure I 100% agree with (or at least some of the ways they implemented them seem a bit like it'd have unintended consequences), but on the whole I see what they're trying to do. But I'm not sure what K-TERA is doing specifically, and I'm more interested in that since EME has said they were trying to stick closer to BHS's intended balance/design. (Granted I guess they could argue that Nexon KR isn't BHS's intended design either.) I do know that K-TERA has done some events for PC Bang customers, but that's a bit of a special case.

I know they had a even on K-tera * based on someones Twitch Stream I watched* But I'm not entirely sure what the event was for. I believe it had to due with the summer awakening and release of Elin Brawlers. I wish I could be more helpful on this, It's frustrating trying to get Talents but I try to not let it get me down.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
VirtualON wrote: »
If talents is at 10g, you think people will be willing to farm 30-40mins to make 1K gold? Doing a single 439 dungeons will simply yield more. So the notion that, there are simply more K-tera players willing to farm IoD, is not in the least believable. They must have other sources somewhere else.

We get a pretty regular heads-up on pretty much everything K-TERA is doing, including region-specific stuff, and as far as I know we have gotten the economic changes K-TERA had nearly verbatim, although EME has added some extra rewards to Dreadspire and via jackpots here and there. There may be other additional factors that impact the economic balance here, like the overall supply of gold that carried over from the past, or other things, but I've not heard of anything different that K-TERA is doing to inject supply of talents. If anyone knows, though, it would be helpful (since, if K-TERA is doing something, it will probably help EME's case to do the same).

Loriri and co. don't talk about the specific events that KTERA has and many things like vanguards rewards that are region specific. I personally play KTERA from time to time just to try out new updates, and the amount of events they have constantly ongoing is insane compared to NA.

Can you provide some specific examples of the sorts of events they are running that impact the supply of talents?

T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
Can you not see that a good amount of the community doesn't think the current situation is ideal either?

This topic has come up repeatedly for many months now, both on the forums and in Player Council chat, in almost every stream, and all the time. You don't need to aggressively @ them as if they don't know. They know. What they're willing to do about it is another issue. That's why I want to try to get specific examples of what other regions are doing to specifically address this problem through events.

I don't have anything on hand to show you, no.

But as for this bit "both on the forums and in Player Council chat". Yes, I'm fully aware it's come up in the player council chat, I'm even aware that this very forum thread was posted there, and according to a friend, you were doing the usual shilling and claiming we're over blowing a problem and just bringing up old arguments. Wonder why EME doesn't do anything when no one in the council pushes anything to EME other than being yes men, and giving up after a try or two of EME not listening to your ideas.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
But as for this bit "both on the forums and in Player Council chat". Yes, I'm fully aware it's come up in the player council chat, I'm even aware that this very forum thread was posted there, and according to a friend, you were doing the usual shilling and claiming we're over blowing a problem and just bringing up old arguments. Wonder why EME doesn't do anything when no one in the council pushes anything to EME other than being yes men, and giving up after a try or two of EME not listening to your ideas.

Your "friend" outright lied to you.

1. This thread was never posted in Player Council chat at all.
2. We did not discuss talents in Player Council chat in the days since this thread was created (since we discussed it a long time ago).
3. I don't think the talent problem is overblown, actually, so never said that.

Anyone who is actually in Player Council chat and telling the truth can verify this.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
But as for this bit "both on the forums and in Player Council chat". Yes, I'm fully aware it's come up in the player council chat, I'm even aware that this very forum thread was posted there, and according to a friend, you were doing the usual shilling and claiming we're over blowing a problem and just bringing up old arguments. Wonder why EME doesn't do anything when no one in the council pushes anything to EME other than being yes men, and giving up after a try or two of EME not listening to your ideas.

Your "friend" outright lied to you.

1. This thread was never posted in Player Council chat at all.
2. We did not discuss talents in Player Council chat in the days since this thread was created (since we discussed it a long time ago, and repeatedly).
3. I don't think the talent problem is overblown, actually, so never said that.

Anyone who is actually in Player Council chat and telling the truth can verify this. The main topics we've actually discussed since your thread was created are issues related to the merger, issues related to rank swiping, conversations related to the event on Saturday, and the latest crafting/gathering changes in K-TERA.

If you actually read my opinions in this very thread even, you would know that I do think it is a problem and exactly why. So all in all, you've been fed some A+ [filtered] both about Player Council and about me.

Edit: Now I am posting a link to this post in Player Council chat. This will be the first time anything from this thread was linked in that chat at all.

Really? Because they also just added that you're now getting mad about leaks despite the fact that I never even told them I posted that here... Come on, don't pull this crap. It's seriously disingenuous to be "an arbiter of the people", yet play a yes man for EME, and turn your back on the players you're meant to represent.
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
But as for this bit "both on the forums and in Player Council chat". Yes, I'm fully aware it's come up in the player council chat, I'm even aware that this very forum thread was posted there, and according to a friend, you were doing the usual shilling and claiming we're over blowing a problem and just bringing up old arguments. Wonder why EME doesn't do anything when no one in the council pushes anything to EME other than being yes men, and giving up after a try or two of EME not listening to your ideas.

Your "friend" outright lied to you.

1. This thread was never posted in Player Council chat at all.
2. We did not discuss talents in Player Council chat in the days since this thread was created (since we discussed it a long time ago, and repeatedly).
3. I don't think the talent problem is overblown, actually, so never said that.

Anyone who is actually in Player Council chat and telling the truth can verify this. The main topics we've actually discussed since your thread was created are issues related to the merger, issues related to rank swiping, conversations related to the event on Saturday, and the latest crafting/gathering changes in K-TERA.

If you actually read my opinions in this very thread even, you would know that I do think it is a problem and exactly why. So all in all, you've been fed some A+ [filtered] both about Player Council and about me.

Edit: Now I am posting a link to this post in Player Council chat. This will be the first time anything from this thread was linked in that chat at all.

Really? Because they also just added that you're now getting mad about leaks despite the fact that I never even told them I posted that here... Come on, don't pull this crap. It's seriously disingenuous to be "an arbiter of the people", yet play a yes man for EME, and turn your back on the players you're meant to represent.

Even though the Roleplay server is being killed with this merger, clearly the spirit of self-created fiction is not dead with some people.

What point is there in this lie? If you were actually trying to convince EME staff to take you seriously and listen to your opinion, why lie about chat they can all read and verify for themselves...?????
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
But as for this bit "both on the forums and in Player Council chat". Yes, I'm fully aware it's come up in the player council chat, I'm even aware that this very forum thread was posted there, and according to a friend, you were doing the usual shilling and claiming we're over blowing a problem and just bringing up old arguments. Wonder why EME doesn't do anything when no one in the council pushes anything to EME other than being yes men, and giving up after a try or two of EME not listening to your ideas.

Your "friend" outright lied to you.

1. This thread was never posted in Player Council chat at all.
2. We did not discuss talents in Player Council chat in the days since this thread was created (since we discussed it a long time ago, and repeatedly).
3. I don't think the talent problem is overblown, actually, so never said that.

Anyone who is actually in Player Council chat and telling the truth can verify this. The main topics we've actually discussed since your thread was created are issues related to the merger, issues related to rank swiping, conversations related to the event on Saturday, and the latest crafting/gathering changes in K-TERA.

If you actually read my opinions in this very thread even, you would know that I do think it is a problem and exactly why. So all in all, you've been fed some A+ [filtered] both about Player Council and about me.

Edit: Now I am posting a link to this post in Player Council chat. This will be the first time anything from this thread was linked in that chat at all.

Really? Because they also just added that you're now getting mad about leaks despite the fact that I never even told them I posted that here... Come on, don't pull this crap. It's seriously disingenuous to be "an arbiter of the people", yet play a yes man for EME, and turn your back on the players you're meant to represent.

Even though the Roleplay server is being killed with this merger, clearly the spirit of self-created fiction is not dead with some people.

What point is there in this lie? If you were actually trying to convince EME staff to take you seriously and listen to your opinion, why lie about chat they can all read and verify for themselves...?????

Yeah, ditto dude.
We had a TRNM event some days ago as far as i remember and i could not see that many LFGs about it .. so it would be nice to give some guaranteed rewards as minimum with a chance to win X or Y items to make more players want to get involved ( might as well solve the talent problem with some additional rewards for dungeons ).

At least, i would love to to do more dungeons on my brawler/priest that have some guaranteed rewards as minimum with a chance to get more since having only a chance to get items is like those magic tricks done on the streets where you can see the coin but then you cannot see it and it ends up in the pocket of developer while making sure to convince you that it is somewhere in your pocket but you cannot find it at the moment..
@T5N5JX9HRP Are you okay my dude
Since BHS has not gave our region any good talent farming content, this issue needs to be corrected by events. The strongbox events were a great help (and could be used again honestly, because the talent strongbox, im afraid, does absolutely nothing to offset talent prices), but, there could be other events too. The recent caiman events are a decent start, but, these are not the kind of events that will bring the talent prices down much. Now is not the time to be walking on tippy-toes with regards to injection of talents in the market. It's been ridiculous for months on end. If a token system will not be implemented in dungeons, there needs to be a massive influx of gold and silver talents into the market to fix this mess. At this point, halving the talent price would be a good start, honestly. It's just been left way too long...
TERA PC - General Discussion#85 Luniack09/18/2018, 01:58 PM
Previously, I could put together about 1.5k gold talents a day just in fwc, now with that nerf I do not know if I will reach 500 at the most ...
In a future patch, you will be able to buy gold and silver talents with bellicarium credits. But for now, yeah, it sucks. We need a BIG gold and silver talent event. A band-aid fix is better than no fix at all.
TERA PC - General Discussion#87 Lapomko09/18/2018, 02:14 PM
Having a temporary event like the strongbox event will make the whales richer because they will just buy out the market and keep them for themselves and resell when everyone needs them. We need a permanent change like adding extra talents/silvers to dungeon rewards and not AFK gold fishing mechanic. If EU can do it NA can too.
TERA PC - General Discussion#88 Magraal09/18/2018, 04:24 PM
>T5N5JX9HRP
anYRGOV_700b.jpg
Ummm... I just got a 150ish golden talent from one of my battlechests a couple days ago.... WHEN I do battlegrounds, this isn't an uncommon number... The golden talent "situation" is fine. Period. /endthread
TridentRPG wrote: »
Ummm... I just got a 150ish golden talent from one of my battlechests a couple days ago.... WHEN I do battlegrounds, this isn't an uncommon number... The golden talent "situation" is fine. Period. /endthread

the amount from battleground chests has been nerfed to a constant 35 gold/silver talents on september 13
bound enchanting materials have also been decreased significantly
the amount from battleground chests has been nerfed to a constant 35 gold/silver talents on september 13
bound enchanting materials have also been decreased significantly

Well if that's true, that sucks. Just read through the 13th patch notes: https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/28744/patch-notes-v74-september-13-happily-evil-after#latest .... can't find a single thing about this though... where is this information coming from? And please don't tell me it's Twitter.
TERA PC - General Discussion#92 Ellexem09/18/2018, 06:19 PM
TridentRPG wrote: »
Well if that's true, that sucks. Just read through the 13th patch notes: https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/28744/patch-notes-v74-september-13-happily-evil-after#latest .... can't find a single thing about this though... where is this information coming from? And please don't tell me it's Twitter.

The patch has been out close to a week by now, so one would assume first hand experience.

Otherwise, translated KTERA patch notes seem to be our best source of complete information.

I think the following ones are the applicable ones.

https://essentialmana.com/news/5-31-18-patch-notes/

https://seraphinush-gaming.tumblr.com/post/174423122583/ktera-patch-20180531
One of the following items can be rewarded from the (new) enchanting material box :
35x Golden Talents
1x Liquid Metal
1x Hypnotic Device
1x Archdevan Surfactant
1x Artisan’s Tools
1x Copper Clasp
1x Pansophic Ash
1x Elemental Essence
35x Silver Talents
1x Archdevan Formula
1x Carved Ornament
1x Otherworldly Shard
1x Last Element
1x Mask of the Infinity
TridentRPG wrote: »
Ummm... I just got a 150ish golden talent from one of my battlechests a couple days ago.... WHEN I do battlegrounds, this isn't an uncommon number... The golden talent "situation" is fine. Period. /endthread

Uh yeah, no, it's definitely 35 talents per bg now.
TridentRPG wrote: »
the amount from battleground chests has been nerfed to a constant 35 gold/silver talents on september 13
bound enchanting materials have also been decreased significantly

Well if that's true, that sucks. Just read through the 13th patch notes: https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/28744/patch-notes-v74-september-13-happily-evil-after#latest .... can't find a single thing about this though... where is this information coming from? And please don't tell me it's Twitter.

I literally said that it was nerfed and then state that this wasn't in the patch notes.
Lapomko wrote: »
Having a temporary event like the strongbox event will make the whales richer because they will just buy out the market and keep them for themselves and resell when everyone needs them. We need a permanent change like adding extra talents/silvers to dungeon rewards and not AFK gold fishing mechanic. If EU can do it NA can too.

Yup, I agree, we need more than just events to stabilize the economy at first. First we need to create a reliable source of golden talents like EU has managed. Later on, events like kyras catalyst, open world box events, and double drop events can help stabilize the economy at a constant, especially when there's upcoming updates that will make people buyout golden talents, such as HO+3.

I would be careful making those comparisons between NA / EU. My main account got banned on the forums because i made a thread similar to this a while ago. Just wanted to give you a heads-up, EME hates this stuff.
Having a temporary event like the strongbox event will make the whales richer because they will just buy out the market and keep them for themselves and resell when everyone needs them

Sadly..
HLK76PFWXT wrote: »
Having a temporary event like the strongbox event will make the whales richer because they will just buy out the market and keep them for themselves and resell when everyone needs them

Sadly..

Yeah, like I said, there's lots of other possible events.
If there is a need for an event to be run to address something as fundamental as core materials though gameplay alone, it suggests that there is something fundamentally wrong with the balance in acquiring those core materials.

If we go back a few years, Gameforge made this very mistake when they completely removed the ability for players to obtain Masterwork Alkahest through gameplay (yes, they removed it from the box from the VG credits store and the drop from KN), albeit for a very short time. And I'm pretty sure that there are more than a few players that remember that.

While I'd like to think that EME would not go to this extreme with Gold and Silver Talents, the supply through gameplay alone leave much to be desired, and for some players does feel like it is approaching the situation I gave just above, especially when then enchanting costs for Heroic Oath to +1, +2 and +3 are considered.

But hey, we are only players and not the publisher. We do not have the data to support our claims, and so we must be armchair data scientists.
@KitTeaCup @SingleBear Today on stream, someone asked "With the new heroic oath enchanting, we need a lot of silver talents to make a ton of silver plates. With them so rare to find, how do you plan to address this issue?", you responded by saying that there's silver talents and golden talents in the champion's token exchange shop. There are not. Even if you plan to add golden talents and silver talents to this shop, unless you plan to include bundles of 50+ of them, a one to one ratio of token to talent would not be worth it whatsoever.

Please correctly address this issue.
@KitTeaCup @SingleBear with the sheer amount of them needed for just a single attempt, just add them to the vanguard reward based on the ratio dungeons drop the other mats. For example we only need 4 veils for a weapon enchant but we need 200 golden plates for that part of the weapon enchanting process. Have the weekly give a % based off of that. If AAHM gives 2 veils and me and my party take turns on veils, it would take about 20 runs for each member of the party to have one enchant try. 200 plates / 20 clears = 10 plates per vanguard.
10 plates is hardly broken, more could be gotten from other content, and the biggest part of the basic material grind is gained passively. Happy players = people who play your game.
@KitTeaCup @SingleBear with the sheer amount of them needed for just a single attempt, just add them to the vanguard reward based on the ratio dungeons drop the other mats. For example we only need 4 veils for a weapon enchant but we need 200 golden plates for that part of the weapon enchanting process. Have the weekly give a % based off of that. If AAHM gives 2 veils and me and my party take turns on veils, it would take about 20 runs for each member of the party to have one enchant try. 200 plates / 20 clears = 10 plates per vanguard.
10 plates is hardly broken, more could be gotten from other content, and the biggest part of the basic material grind is gained passively. Happy players = people who play your game.

Grey for CM 2019 +1
TERA PC - General Discussion#101 ElinUsagi09/22/2018, 02:53 AM
@KitTeaCup @SingleBear with the sheer amount of them needed for just a single attempt, just add them to the vanguard reward based on the ratio dungeons drop the other mats. For example we only need 4 veils for a weapon enchant but we need 200 golden plates for that part of the weapon enchanting process. Have the weekly give a % based off of that. If AAHM gives 2 veils and me and my party take turns on veils, it would take about 20 runs for each member of the party to have one enchant try. 200 plates / 20 clears = 10 plates per vanguard.
10 plates is hardly broken, more could be gotten from other content, and the biggest part of the basic material grind is gained passively. Happy players = people who play your game.

This is something that have been mentioned several times in the past. Talents are like alkahest in the past and we had a reliable source to get them, not so many but we build our amount of enchanting materials needed to get that +15.

In the current system we not only suffer from the lack of these at higher dungeon tiers but you need also a crazy amount of time to craft them into plates.

A small amount of talents would be welcome on higher tier dungeons but a singnificant decrease over crafting time would be apreciated also.
So I just noticed they brought back federation gem crates, which actually doesn't help at all.

"We need more golden and silver talents!"
*meanwhile at EME* Hey, I hear some racket going on outside, what are they saying? I don't know, they sound like ants. I think I heard something with gems? Hey didn't we have an event that made us a ton of money last time that gave out free gems to people with lots of disposable income? Nice!

I just don't get it, how is it so hard to just do something about golden talents? Obviously you don't care about the economy if you're just introducing EVEN MORE gold even though there were already more ways added to make more gold.
TERA PC - General Discussion#103 ManamiC09/22/2018, 09:10 AM
I know this was a thread made for the overall golden talent problem we have but uh... PvP just got nerfed again in terms of progression and all of these pve/dgreward/AAHcoin solutions makes me depressed. HI 35 TOKENS PER BOX NOW ANY LOVE TO PVP?? HOW BOUT JACKPOTS IN PVP HUH? 30 talents per win? ALL THESE PVE BUFFS MAKE ME SICK!. SOMEONE MENTION WAYS WE CAN BUFF PVP PLS.JUST GOT DICKED HARD FROM 150 TALENTS A BOX TO 30.
ManamiC wrote: »
I know this was a thread made for the overall golden talent problem we have but uh... PvP just got nerfed again in terms of progression and all of these pve/dgreward/AAHcoin solutions makes me depressed. HI 35 TOKENS PER BOX NOW ANY LOVE TO PVP?? HOW BOUT JACKPOTS IN PVP HUH? 30 talents per win? ALL THESE PVE BUFFS MAKE ME SICK!. SOMEONE MENTION WAYS WE CAN BUFF PVP PLS.JUST GOT DICKED HARD FROM 150 TALENTS A BOX TO 30.

I mean that's literally what the thread started with it's discussion about. But yes, the box changes need to be reverted or the battleground shop changes need to be fast tracked to when they are added to BG shop.
TERA PC - General Discussion#105 Zestroia09/22/2018, 10:47 AM
As a player that was in to the game for 5 years with a lot of breaks and a one year hiatus, I recently came back, like 3 weeks ago, played a bit, did a lot of stuff, fresh with new character, up to the FM+0 point with daylight accs. I have to say, I saw the easier 65 lvl dungs giving like 750g per reward. I was happy, like "Finally, Tera became easier towards new but also older players. Encouraging them with more gold AND learning mechanics - for new players - while also rewarding a very decent amount of gold per run."

The normal modes were giving like 1250g per run, I was like "Oh, wow, this is really good, like, 1k per run, this will really help any new player to not stay behind for a long time. Very good by EME."

A couple of days ago, after the merge, the rewards went back not to 400s for low dungs, but to 200s...like it's 2016 all over again. And right next to that, the normal modes got nerfed too, only the hard modes giving like 1k, and that is unfair.

Now, I know what most people gonna complain about my comment here, silly things like "Oh, the new players should learn how to do stuff on their own, and the gold reward is totally fine and perfect, and the economy will be effed up and that's the right way to do."

No. Just, no. You're an old player with tons of gold in your bank and not giving a care? Fine, be that way. But, every other normal, healthy in mind and logical player wants to have a real fun with a game, because, it IS a game and not a full time job. Getting 200g on low dungs right now is a huge spit in the face for everybody, yes, including you, "amazing and old lucrative player that you've been there, done that before."

Things change, Tera economy is already effed up. Let us not talk about aesthetics and whatnot because that's another sad story in broker, but, let's simply talk about gearing. A lot of players are rerolling their stuff, selling their gear and whatnot. You'll tell me it's cheaper now, and in a sense, yeah, it is. But, for someone to reach like 80k gold to get FM+0 from broker, is the same -almost- pain as to achieve it naturally by playing for 2-3 weeks and trying to progress there on their own through enchanting process. I am not gonna speak about SC which is still the same locked at 30% and lower rng, like, Jesus, are you people still on that? It is good to have some sort of "limit", but not that, because, the cost is just too great at some point and the mats+gold are less and less than before, this is where Tera's economy is getting effed up real bad.

Possible solutions?

1. Give more talents to the people through events, actual events, hold the buffed/doubled/tripled gold reward from dungeons for like a month or a bit more than that.
2. Or, increase the chances to SC with less mats+gold, because it is getting ridiculous, otherwise a lot of new players will drop the game out of the feelings of frustration/stagnation, because it IS there, it's just you "don't" see it.
3. Pay attention to your community, for real this time, issues like these are very important, the game is very good on its own, it just needs a better direction.


Like, I am sure there will be at least one elitist here to disagree with me, but it is what it is, and you can't try to sugarcoat it with the usual excuses mentioned above. I agree with the OP and with many logical and healthy in mind players here that spoke their minds. I doubt EME will notice this, but it is in our hands to keep pushing it until they "finally realize" it.
TERA PC - General Discussion#106 clfarron409/22/2018, 01:27 PM
T5N5JX9HRP wrote: »
@KitTeaCup @SingleBear Today on stream, someone asked "With the new heroic oath enchanting, we need a lot of silver talents to make a ton of silver plates. With them so rare to find, how do you plan to address this issue?", you responded by saying that there's silver talents and golden talents in the champion's token exchange shop. There are not. Even if you plan to add golden talents and silver talents to this shop, unless you plan to include bundles of 50+ of them, a one to one ratio of token to talent would not be worth it whatsoever.

Please correctly address this issue.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/313003243?t=01h11m49s

"...in this particular token shop, you will be able to get the silver talents. I know we got gold."

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/424615698472370197/492869915179614220/shop.PNG

Yup, nice source of Talents you got there. I'm seeing commentary all over Discord about this, which has been turned into a meme video.
Zestroia wrote: »

Possible solutions?

1. Give more talents to the people through events, actual events, hold the buffed/doubled/tripled gold reward from dungeons for like a month or a bit more than that.
2. Or, increase the chances to SC with less mats+gold, because it is getting ridiculous, otherwise a lot of new players will drop the game out of the feelings of frustration/stagnation, because it IS there, it's just you "don't" see it.
3. Pay attention to your community, for real this time, issues like these are very important, the game is very good on its own, it just needs a better direction.


Like, I am sure there will be at least one elitist here to disagree with me, but it is what it is, and you can't try to sugarcoat it with the usual excuses mentioned above. I agree with the OP and with many logical and healthy in mind players here that spoke their minds. I doubt EME will notice this, but it is in our hands to keep pushing it until they "finally realize" it.

We have been pushing for this since the New Year at least, when the decision was made by EME to turn off double VGs, the main method for farming Gold Talents. Back then, we forecast that there was going to be a Talent shortage.

Then they introduced a weird 5 weekly cycle of bonuses, which to replace the double vgs they turned off. Again, we forecast that there was going to be a problem. Nothing.

After a few months of clamoring about Golden Talents, we got loads of Gem Box and Master Additive events. Yah, they gave events which didn't really address any issues of players and instead blew up the economy even further. EMP prices peaked at 1:110 and golden talent prices were really starting to rise.

Then Heroic Oath comes out in Korea, with enchant costs of over 300 Golden Plates, 70 Silver Plates. Again, we highlight the issues. And nothing.

And through all of this, there were also plenty of whales that came back, exploiting the lack in talents to buy and relist with the biggest stacks possible.

A lot of people have gotten to the point where they cannot be bothered, because they know nothing will be done.

As I said in anothed comment somewhere, it feels almost like EME are going to remove Gold and Silver Talent sources from playing the game and putting it entirely in the cash shop. And I still remember the community backlash from the last time a TERA publisher decided to make a core enchanting material cash shop only.
TERA PC - General Discussion#107 Ellexem09/22/2018, 03:26 PM
clfarron4 wrote: »
Then Heroic Oath comes out in Korea, with enchant costs of over 300 Golden Plates, 70 Silver Plates. Again, we highlight the issues. And nothing.

On a semi positive note, there might be some hope for sanity there.

https://seraphinush-gaming.tumblr.com/post/176791536813/ktera-patch-20180809
Changed Heroic Oath enchanting cost for +2 -> +3
  • Weapon
    • Gold : From 109,447 to 91,206
    • Golden Plate : From 382 to 153
    • Silver Plate : From 96 to 38
    • Rare Metal : From 395 to 237
    • Balance Weights : From 29 to 29
    • Sacred Hammer : From 9 to 20
    • Diamond : From 9 to 0
  • Armor
    • Gold : From 65,668 to 54,723
    • Golden Plate : From 229 to 92
    • Silver Plate : From 57 to 23
    • Rare Metal : From 237 to 142
    • Balance Weights : From 17 to 17
    • Sacred Hammer : From 5 to 12
    • Diamond : From 6 to 0
  • Gloves, boots
    • Gold : From 43,779 to 36,383
    • Golden Plate : From 153 to 61
    • Silver Plate : From 38 to 15
    • Rare Metal : From 158 to 95
    • Balance Weights : From 11 to 11
    • Sacred Hammer : From 3 to 7
    • Diamond : From 4 to 0

I can't find if they are also lowering the costs for the other levels, but one can hope.

---

More fully on topic, I find the focus on the gold rewards to be misplaced and not constructive. We're not going to have any luck with that angle. They seem to see the rewards of a tier as only relevant for the matching gear tier. As long as you can progress through that matching gear tier quickly enough, they aren't going to care if you stall out at a higher gear tier with them.

For all that people are dismissive of them (I've brought up the point about how that does nothing to help with keeping lower tier dungeons alive when this came up in a previous iteration of this general complaint set), they did reduce the costs of the Guardian and Twistshard sets. To the point where they are supposed to be even quicker to progress through with the current level of rewards for their respective tiers.

To show their own, translated, reasoning for this:
https://seraphinush-gaming.tumblr.com/post/174595197163/ktera-devnote-dungeonrewarditemxp
  • Currently many players are in a situation where they go to dungeons for gold and item XP, but its insufficiency forces players to supplement it via Guardian Legion mission and other solo contents.
  • To resolve this inconvenience, dungeon rewards will be revised to give players efficient rewards as well as rewards that properly matches with the level of gear worn.
Item XP and gold from dungeon rewards and enchanting material consumption will be changed.
  • Dungeon rewards are currently set up to mostly give Metamorphic Emblems and related enchanting materials, in return for less gold. on the other hand, we’ve also confirmed that contents with the most efficient time-gold ratio have been used more frequently to compensate for the lack of gold.
  • In order to intervene the situation where players are forced to play select contents that give better gold rewards, gold and item XP rewards will be revised to be best rewarded when item level matches the dungeon item level requirement and decrease rewards as item level requirement decreases.

So, they'd keep pushing (either in making the rewards for higher tiers ever higher, or the chosen making the lower tiers less rewarding) until that time-gold ratio is no longer the most efficient. But once that happens, we're still left with the basic dilemma of the participating player base crashing and the queue pop times going up.

Which leaves us with finding other avenues of trying to address that issue.

Luckily we have the topic at hand, a need for more talents. They also are implementing a system* that can give out extra rewards to other players if a new player is around. (I'm not sure how well thought out it is in practice, but the basic principle seems to be fine to apply.) So, let's combine those.

You want extra talents? Don't want to farm boring solo content or get into PvP? Then go and help out the new players. Run their dungeons with them.

Extend this to even more tiers perhaps, go give extra reason to keep the more geared players interacting with those still up and coming. By tying it into the instance matching you can also try to address the problems of finding groups for certain content through that.

Moving away from account status and instead to character skilled status (so number of clears) only might make it more generally useful perhaps. Though maybe some other factor instead, so that you could also have it apply to returning players that might already have the number of clears. Maybe just a smaller amount for just a new character, rather than a genuinely new player, but it should still bring in a much needed alternative for getting talents.

*Reference to the "Compliment" system that seems to be the official answer to the new player queues times exploding.
https://seraphinush-gaming.tumblr.com/post/176043583198/ktera-patch-20180719
TERA PC - General Discussion#108 ManamiC09/22/2018, 03:54 PM
...OR YOU COULD JUST ADD 30 TALENT JACKPOT PER WIN. LESS REWARDS FOR PEOPLE WHO JUST AFK, MORE INCENTIVE TO NOT GIVE UP EARLY!. BG TOKEN SHOP IS A JOKE! IT IS MORE LIKE A PASSIVE MINI REWARD THAT YOU CARE ABOUT AFTER A MONTH OF PVP TO GET A FEW ESSENCES.... ITS WORSE THAN THE DG TOKENS PVE PLAYER HAVE. EME IN THE PAST COULD FREELY CHANGE OR MODIFY THEIR OWN JACKPOTS IN PVP SO THIS WON'T BE A DRAMATIC THING FOR THEM. 30 TALENT JACKPOT PER WIN!
TERA PC - General Discussion#109 Kirasaka09/22/2018, 05:26 PM
KitTeaCup doesn't even know what Silver/Golden talents are or what they are used for. Why would you think asking her is a good way to solve the problem.
@SingleBear Can you explain your reasoning behind this statement?

SingleBearToday at 1:04 AM
I'd rather drop gems than drop gold sink items

It doesn't make any sense. Why? Do you have any semblance of an idea about any sort of economics? Why do you WANT this to be the norm?
TERA PC - General Discussion#111 Zestroia09/23/2018, 03:11 AM
As I said in anothed comment somewhere, it feels almost like EME are going to remove Gold and Silver Talent sources from playing the game and putting it entirely in the cash shop. And I still remember the community backlash from the last time a TERA publisher decided to make a core enchanting material cash shop only.

^That is really effed up beyond any logic and measure, if it ever happens now. They should give back at least the double vg rewards and try to tone it up a bit with more and actual interesting events. I get the game is f2p and basically dying, but people still threw/throwing money at that game and it is at least some sort of obligation AND appreciation by their side as publishers to do things, like, what happened??

No, we - customers who actually payed for stuff in game/founders of the game - are not supposed to say "thank you" because the game is f2p.
No, we are not forced to pay, but when someone pays for your stuff, you are at least obliged to deliver back and with interesting events.
Yes, this can go deep all you want, everyone, but it's the truth.
TERA PC - General Discussion#112 Zestroia09/23/2018, 03:13 AM
Kirasaka wrote: »
KitTeaCup doesn't even know what Silver/Golden talents are or what they are used for. Why would you think asking her is a good way to solve the problem.

Why do I have a serious feeling that you are actually serious and saying the truth instead of trolling here?
need strongbox event again... yea the rich getting richer but at least it make the price drop a lot in the broker for a while and is better than just ignore us
Not asking for free talents as an once a month event. Just put a fair amount in dam VG rewards as you had previously done with feedstocks.!!
TERA PC - General Discussion#115 ThePieBoy09/23/2018, 09:24 AM
@KitTeaCup
1. Make a new level 65 character.
2. Get clean guardian gear and accessories.
3. Get a ton of gold, golden/silver talent/daric/plates and mats for enchanting
4. Try to get your gear to sc+9 or even HO
5. Do math and let us know how long it'll take the average player to achieve that.

kthxbye
TERA PC - General Discussion#116 Jerichow09/23/2018, 01:57 PM
Zestroia wrote: »
Kirasaka wrote: »
KitTeaCup doesn't even know what Silver/Golden talents are or what they are used for. Why would you think asking her is a good way to solve the problem.

Why do I have a serious feeling that you are actually serious and saying the truth instead of trolling here?

Because many of us still remember Danicia, the "still lvl 60 2 years after the level cap was raised to 65" GM from the old forums back in 2016-ish era that knew nothing about the game but was still in charge of it.
TERA PC - General Discussion#117 Kirasaka09/23/2018, 01:59 PM
Zestroia wrote: »
Kirasaka wrote: »
KitTeaCup doesn't even know what Silver/Golden talents are or what they are used for. Why would you think asking her is a good way to solve the problem.

Why do I have a serious feeling that you are actually serious and saying the truth instead of trolling here?

He is serious.
Kirasaka wrote: »
Zestroia wrote: »
Kirasaka wrote: »
KitTeaCup doesn't even know what Silver/Golden talents are or what they are used for. Why would you think asking her is a good way to solve the problem.

Why do I have a serious feeling that you are actually serious and saying the truth instead of trolling here?

I am serious.

I feel like she just lagged IRL cause she had no idea what the hell even happened, then she randomly just started spewing nonsense about something that again, she knew nothing about.
But hey... at least she got them dank footsteps everybody wants, because thats going to save NA completely.
Also, getting golden talents from loot boxes is nerfed as well. Basically every possible way of getting them properly, p2w or f2w is removed. Nice laugh at the end...
Why is this our community manager again?
Jerichow wrote: »
Zestroia wrote: »
Kirasaka wrote: »
KitTeaCup doesn't even know what Silver/Golden talents are or what they are used for. Why would you think asking her is a good way to solve the problem.

Why do I have a serious feeling that you are actually serious and saying the truth instead of trolling here?

Because many of us still remember Danicia, the "still lvl 60 2 years after the level cap was raised to 65" GM from the old forums back in 2016-ish era that knew nothing about the game but was still in charge of it.

the all time worst cm in my opinion.
Jerichow wrote: »
Zestroia wrote: »
Kirasaka wrote: »
KitTeaCup doesn't even know what Silver/Golden talents are or what they are used for. Why would you think asking her is a good way to solve the problem.

Why do I have a serious feeling that you are actually serious and saying the truth instead of trolling here?

Because many of us still remember Danicia, the "still lvl 60 2 years after the level cap was raised to 65" GM from the old forums back in 2016-ish era that knew nothing about the game but was still in charge of it.

the all time worst cm in my opinion.

Well... Danicia was pretty bad, and it was all of her own accord. I blame EME's mismanagement of NA TERA for why KitTeaCup is like she is. She has to CM for two completely separate communities and basically two separate games since they're so different. I still think she could do a better job, but EME is not budgeting this correctly whatsoever.
At this rate, the new CM will stop doing the streams due to what happened supposedly last Friday's stream. The new CM is being a target for the playerbase to attack. I remember when a huge drama happened awhile back with the forum censorship that the next stream had almost every single staff member on mod duty and the chat was put on slow mode. Like dang, this isn't a game anymore, but at the same time the community either just wants something good to be done with their complaints or just venting.

Venting....

Yeah I think people just want to vent right now. Vent at someone, something, anything. No such thing as looking forward to hopeful dreams right now.

I already gave up with both the staff members and the so-called community here.

Morale has fallen apart to extreme negatives here.

All there is left is EME continue to milk this game until it dies. EME knows that they have a bad reputation so may as well not bother to do any favors to the playerbase either. Either way, it works out with EME. EME can do less work since they know they can't do anything to make anyone happy. Basically the playerbase is doing EME their favor. Think about it.
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