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TERA PC - General Discussion: Dreadspire is build for `Elitist`?
So, according with these announcement :
https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/27891/dreadspire-announcements#latest

I`m really aware about these, and.. what i`m afraid has just happen,
TERA seems planing to degradated all low player into bottom of the ocean,
and i think.. thats the reason TERA not implemented 10 man dungeon anymore.

According with those announcement,
Seem to be DS would be equally with 4/5 stars dungeon,
with the rule, once time wipe = game over,
this dungeon will seek perfection beyond everything, and degradated every low and unexperience player left behind,
because player would tend to be selective and more `Elitist`.

(Elitist = According to my understanding, Elitist is an act of certain player which is tend to be superior because they have better skills, better experience, better gear, and better in everything. This behavior lead to discrimination between player, and the worst part, Elitist player tend to be `Ignorance`).

Actually i`m not whining because i`m lack competence in TERA,
but if you build so many dungeon with a high requirements,
that would be less enjoyment for community, because automatically they would selective player, stressed,
and not all player can be participated, even with decent gear.
otherwise from that.., there is no such valuable reward in higher dungeon in TERA right now,
few player thinking.. doesn't have any point to grind it.

I`m a bit dissapointed.., but.. thats all,
nothing that i can do, since TERA was a free-to-play MMORPG,
and the game developer can do what ever they want.
More `Elitist` means more money right?

Did the game developer interested to bring back 10 man dungeon,
or maybe Dreadspire with 10 man? why not? is that hard?
well.. its seem hard for ENMASSE and BHS..

Any taught from everyone?
Did Dreadspire is build for `Elitist` player?
Low tier content is still the most profitable. Tera is far from being a game that favors elitist players.
As they have said in the announcement thread, Dreadspire is not for everyone. There are plenty of other dungeons if you are looking for an easier clear. It is only natural for people to only pick the very best to be on their own team for this extremely difficult challenge.

Besides, everyone has the same number of entries to Dreadspire every day (not counting elite status) so you are not at a disadvantage if you are unskilled or undergeared. Nothing is stopping you from attempting Dreadspire with your own party. But if you are looking to make the leaderboards, then you gotta have what it takes to be a player worthy to be on the best teams.
CornishRex wrote: »
Low tier content is still the most profitable. Tera is far from being a game that favors elitist players.
EnviroBear wrote: »
As they have said in the announcement thread, Dreadspire is not for everyone. There are plenty of other dungeons if you are looking for an easier clear. It is only natural for people to only pick the very best to be on their own team for this extremely difficult challenge.

Besides, everyone has the same number of entries to Dreadspire every day (not counting elite status) so you are not at a disadvantage if you are unskilled or undergeared. Nothing is stopping you from attempting Dreadspire with your own party. But if you are looking to make the leaderboards, then you gotta have what it takes to be a player worthy to be on the best teams.

Well..
I just don`t get it...
since the higher dungeon in TERA was `not profitable` to run,
why they are making a new dungeon methode like Dreadspire, that have higher requirements? (Since only Dreadspire which is have the floor methode for certain item level, and they were another Dreadspire in few previous patch),

I just wondering..
Making one feature that `pleasant` for every players was very `expensive` in TERA at this time?

CornishRex wrote: »
Low tier content is still the most profitable. Tera is far from being a game that favors elitist players.
EnviroBear wrote: »
As they have said in the announcement thread, Dreadspire is not for everyone. There are plenty of other dungeons if you are looking for an easier clear. It is only natural for people to only pick the very best to be on their own team for this extremely difficult challenge.

Besides, everyone has the same number of entries to Dreadspire every day (not counting elite status) so you are not at a disadvantage if you are unskilled or undergeared. Nothing is stopping you from attempting Dreadspire with your own party. But if you are looking to make the leaderboards, then you gotta have what it takes to be a player worthy to be on the best teams.

Well..
I just don`t get it...
since the higher dungeon in TERA was `not profitable` to run,
why they are making a new dungeon methode like Dreadspire, that have higher requirements? (Since only Dreadspire which is have the floor methode for certain item level, and they were another Dreadspire in few previous patch),

I just wondering..
Making one feature that `pleasant` for every players was very `expensive` in TERA at this time?

Because skilled players should be allowed to have a challenge. Granted, I'd love if rewards are better but it doesn't seem to be the case.
i can see aahm being a dungeon with a "high" requirement but nothing else
I think this may be an issue with official wording. What do I mean by that, some of you may ask? Consider the following:

Let's look at the following statements:
"This dungeon isn't for everyone."
"This dungeon is very difficult."

Both essentially say the same thing, but the former is a bit more direct in stating if you're lacking in appropriate package, you're simply wasting your time. The latter is more like saying that you're in for an uphill battle, but with enough perseverance and determination, you should be able to overcome the challenges.

Also, "elitism" - at least TERA's version of it - is nothing new; when I started playing way back in the Wounded World patch, I remember seeing LFG posts talking about "REHM 181(?)+ ilvl". That's just the gaming landscape these days: few people want to deal with some random scrub who might slow everyone (including themselves) down.
TERA PC - General Discussion#8 Dvsv07/12/2018, 03:07 PM
CornishRex wrote: »

Because skilled players should be allowed to have a challenge. Granted, I'd love if rewards are better but it doesn't seem to be the case.
Nah, it's more like "because skilled zerkers/warriors should be allowed to have a challenge" hahaha!

But dw, look how well we're doing, BHS rly is a smart dev!!!!1!

Avg. Players Gain % Gain Peak Players
Last 30 Days 1,460.1 -218.0 -12.99% 2,492

https://steamcharts.com/app/323370

So, EVERYTHING i said like 4 month ago here was true lol..

u guys are elitestststs, you clear content fast and make money. its not fair :ccccccccc
make ds for every1 to clear for money and gear, gib BiS when you hit level 65 immediately and 1m gold for everyone at 65
#MakeTERAGreatAgain
Yeah , let's remove everything related to competition in mmo , so every players will be equal !!!
@Adrenalinzz
Sarcasm or otherwise, asking for everyone to have the same starting point isn't a problem.

When people start asking for the same ending point, that's when other people are definitely gonna have words.
SageWindu wrote: »
@Adrenalinzz
Sarcasm or otherwise, asking for everyone to have the same starting point isn't a problem.

Nice way of putting it - sadly even if we can clear DS in NA basically all the non-awakened classes are excluded anyway....
Dvsv wrote: »
Maybe ppl just doesn't like an unbalanced af game where the dev put all their time on elitist content that only a small number of broken classes can clear?

Reasonable.. and i`m agreed..
game developer should put attention to content which is everyone can be participated, atlast with decent gear as possible, (for example with current frostmetal gear)..
not always content with very high requirements like 4/5 stars dungeon.
No. You need to have variety and content behind skill on MMOs. There are content for low skilled people and content for high skilled ones, and you get to it by you and your friends merits and effort. What is wrong with that?

Implementation is a thing though, and we will see how it plays out.
TERA PC - General Discussion#15 voidy07/12/2018, 05:31 PM
EME is just telling people to curb their expectations, because yeah, 99.9% of players won't be able to do Dreadspire Uppers. It's smart of them to do this, since the last content patch hyped up masks like they were gonna be this thing everyone could get and then they were so rare that some people still don't have one, let alone the one they want.

In any case, I tend to take a pessimistic view of DSU myself. All it does on small servers is send people away to bigger worlds, since it's difficult to get groups formed on a dead server. Look forward to the lower floors and manglemire instead. Pretend uppers don't exist. Easy solution.
Why are people calling it DSU (Dreadspire Uppers)?

It's Dreadspire. lol

There's someone wants to improve the lootable on this dungeon when it's not accessible to a larger playerbase anyways. If someone with some brains on here would want to improve loot, do it on existing dungeons that majority can do, not Dreadspire lol.

I guess most ppl here never saw how Dreadspire is like on KTERA. Dungeon not only hard and punishable if you have one stupid person in your group, but hardest is finding 4 ppl with brains to run with. You can't just TAKE ANYONE to Dreadspire.

I expect lots of drama, jealously, and kicked from static group stories soon when Dreadspire launches in a few hours. I can feel it now.
TERA PC - General Discussion#17 voidy07/12/2018, 05:40 PM
DL7MMWLJ3W wrote: »
Why are people calling it DSU (Dreadspire Uppers)?

I'm assuming it's a rerelease of older versions of it. In those versions, Dreadspire had the lower floors which just about anyone could complete, and then the upper floors which were the real meaty parts that 99% of the population didn't even bother with. Dreadspire lowers was a fun boss rush kinda thing that gave nice rewards at the end of it. Dreadspire uppers was absolute cancer reserved for only the strongest groups.
dmaxcustom wrote: »
No. You need to have variety and content behind skill on MMOs. There are content for low skilled people and content for high skilled ones, and you get to it by you and your friends merits and effort. What is wrong with that?

Implementation is a thing though, and we will see how it plays out.

You mean "geared" instead of skilled, right? As a veteran of tons of MMOs, some with similar gear requirements for content, having gear =/= having skill. One skilled tank/healer combo, with a couple of competent DPS can carry one player to all the gear in the game, but that doesn't mean that the player in question gains any skill. My favorite example of this was a DPS class crying for 30 minutes because neither of the healers had "appropriate" gear, and then, when the boss did it's special, this same DPS, in all the right gear, died because they didn't move out of the attack. All the gear, none of the skill, not even the basic skill required to know that "red == bad".

I'm all for separating the wheat from the chaff, I just wish that games supported a "Who was carried to their gear, and who actually earned it" setting, so that when one looks at the gear, one knows how the player got it.
Its not uppers or lowers. Its now 10 floors, if you wipe it uses up a run and starts you from floor 1.
TERA PC - General Discussion#20 voidy07/12/2018, 06:25 PM
DEDR9HHP9A wrote: »
Its not uppers or lowers. Its now 10 floors, if you wipe it uses up a run and starts you from floor 1.

WELP. :lol:
That sucks if it's all hard floors lmao. RIP
voidy wrote: »
DEDR9HHP9A wrote: »
Its not uppers or lowers. Its now 10 floors, if you wipe it uses up a run and starts you from floor 1.

WELP. :lol:
That sucks if it's all hard floors lmao. RIP

darkan thats inside it is from scem. All the floors are hard and none of them are meant to be easy/for non elitists to complete.
dmaxcustom wrote: »
No. You need to have variety and content behind skill on MMOs. There are content for low skilled people and content for high skilled ones, and you get to it by you and your friends merits and effort. What is wrong with that?

Implementation is a thing though, and we will see how it plays out.

You mean "geared" instead of skilled, right? As a veteran of tons of MMOs, some with similar gear requirements for content, having gear =/= having skill. One skilled tank/healer combo, with a couple of competent DPS can carry one player to all the gear in the game, but that doesn't mean that the player in question gains any skill. My favorite example of this was a DPS class crying for 30 minutes because neither of the healers had "appropriate" gear, and then, when the boss did it's special, this same DPS, in all the right gear, died because they didn't move out of the attack. All the gear, none of the skill, not even the basic skill required to know that "red == bad".

I'm all for separating the wheat from the chaff, I just wish that games supported a "Who was carried to their gear, and who actually earned it" setting, so that when one looks at the gear, one knows how the player got it.

...
Jesus. Things are so bad here that people have the need to make these absurd clarifications?

Alright.
Fine.

I do fully understand that gear does not equal skill.
However I have no idea how a game can filter people via skill. How do you measure in a matchmaking situation "skill or experience?" Therefore it stand to reason that the game will filter via "gear" or some other quantifiable method. Admittedly I am not a developer, but common sense says that is not doable.

What I meant with my statement is that I do not see any sort of issue with players that are skilled and/or experienced, and that also have the best available gear to be picky about who they want to accompany them to go to the advertised "hardest content in the game".

I think that it stand to reason that there is and should be content in games designed for those types players and they should be rewarded for those efforts. And if me or anyone else wants to be there, well, do what you need to do to improve yourself and gain the merits for that. What is the problem with that?
dmaxcustom wrote: »
dmaxcustom wrote: »
No. You need to have variety and content behind skill on MMOs. There are content for low skilled people and content for high skilled ones, and you get to it by you and your friends merits and effort. What is wrong with that?

Implementation is a thing though, and we will see how it plays out.

You mean "geared" instead of skilled, right? As a veteran of tons of MMOs, some with similar gear requirements for content, having gear =/= having skill. One skilled tank/healer combo, with a couple of competent DPS can carry one player to all the gear in the game, but that doesn't mean that the player in question gains any skill. My favorite example of this was a DPS class crying for 30 minutes because neither of the healers had "appropriate" gear, and then, when the boss did it's special, this same DPS, in all the right gear, died because they didn't move out of the attack. All the gear, none of the skill, not even the basic skill required to know that "red == bad".

I'm all for separating the wheat from the chaff, I just wish that games supported a "Who was carried to their gear, and who actually earned it" setting, so that when one looks at the gear, one knows how the player got it.

...
Jesus. Things are so bad here that people have the need to make these absurd clarifications?

Alright.
Fine.

I do fully understand that gear does not equal skill.
However I have no idea how a game can filter people via skill. How do you measure in a matchmaking situation "skill or experience?" Therefore it stand to reason that the game will filter via "gear" or some other quantifiable method. Admittedly I am not a developer, but common sense says that is not doable.

What I meant with my statement is that I do not see any sort of issue with players that are skilled and/or experienced, and that also have the best available gear to be picky about who they want to accompany them to go to the advertised "hardest content in the game".

I think that it stand to reason that there is and should be content in games designed for those types players and they should be rewarded for those efforts. And if me or anyone else wants to be there, well, do what you need to do to improve yourself and gain the merits for that. What is the problem with that?

That's kind of the point. Gear scores are great and all, but in the end, unless you actually know who you're dealing with, they're also largely meaningless. Ironically, I agree with you about the content. As I said, I don't have an issue with separating the "wheat from the chaff". I know that I've been in the upper echelon of players in some MMOs, and in others, I'd be high tier, but not quite high enough for some stuff, usually through lack of motivation to get there. In DDO, for example, I could easily run in the high tier stuff, but most of my guild there can't, and so, I don't. I enjoy hanging out, and doing whatever, even trying to do the harder content, knowing we're likely not going to be able to. That doesn't mean I don't think it has a place in games, it just means that I'm not all that fussed about it if I can't get in.
TERA PC - General Discussion#24 kamizuma07/12/2018, 07:17 PM
some content is not for everyone. I'm fine with and accept the fact that I will not be running Dreadspire :)
TERA PC - General Discussion#25 vkobe07/12/2018, 07:20 PM
So, according with these announcement :
https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/27891/dreadspire-announcements#latest

I`m really aware about these, and.. what i`m afraid has just happen,
TERA seems planing to degradated all low player into bottom of the ocean,
and i think.. thats the reason TERA not implemented 10 man dungeon anymore.

According with those announcement,
Seem to be DS would be equally with 4/5 stars dungeon,
with the rule, once time wipe = game over,
this dungeon will seek perfection beyond everything, and degradated every low and unexperience player left behind,
because player would tend to be selective and more `Elitist`.

(Elitist = According to my understanding, Elitist is an act of certain player which is tend to be superior because they have better skills, better experience, better gear, and better in everything. This behavior lead to discrimination between player, and the worst part, Elitist player tend to be `Ignorance`).

Actually i`m not whining because i`m lack competence in TERA,
but if you build so many dungeon with a high requirements,
that would be less enjoyment for community, because automatically they would selective player, stressed,
and not all player can be participated, even with decent gear.
otherwise from that.., there is no such valuable reward in higher dungeon in TERA right now,
few player thinking.. doesn't have any point to grind it.

I`m a bit `dissapointed`, but.. thats all,
nothing that i can do, since TERA was a free-to-play MMORPG,
and the game developer can do what ever they want.
More `Elitist` means more money right?

Did the game developer interested to bring back 10 man dungeon,
or maybe Dreadspire with 10 man? why not? is that hard?
well.. its seem hard for ENMASSE and BHS..

Any taught from everyone?
Did Dreadspire is build for `Elitist` player?

is build for skilled players :3
TERA PC - General Discussion#26 vkobe07/12/2018, 07:22 PM
kamizuma wrote: »
some content is not for everyone. I'm fine with and accept the fact that I will not be running Dreadspire :)

and be richest player and have the best avatar :lol:
Since the last big update where BHS / EME said they were going to make changes to the dungeons so it wouldn't pay to run lowers if you had higher gear, or something to that effect.

As a DPS toon I went from waiting 15+ minutes in que for the so called trash dungeons, aka SF, KC, RG, to almost instant que pops, and almost always a higher toon often more doing them.

So if their intentions are to make the DS Super Elitest only, don't seem to be many taking it up as they all coming into the trash dungeons.

The biggest problem with Tera IMHO, and not just Tera really but most modern MMO's, they make too much stuff non tradeable.

Now, if they made everything tradeable, even if it was by trade broker only, we wouldn't even be having this discussion about elitests and lowers, as those who have the skill and gear would farm the highest dungeons, sell the gear to those who can't, win win for all.

I remember the old days of PWI (Perfect World International) the guild I was in did that all the time, there were some I just couldn't do, so I would farm mats and other things and they would run the dungeons to get the high level mats, and what we got excess of we sold on, and it actually paid us to find new players to teach them and get them to their max ability to increase stocks and they got goodies from it too.

Ahh well, is what it is, guess we just put up with it or all go learn korean and play Ktera, cries in my elin snacks on that thought lol.
Since the last big update where BHS / EME said they were going to make changes to the dungeons so it wouldn't pay to run lowers if you had higher gear, or something to that effect.

As a DPS toon I went from waiting 15+ minutes in que for the so called trash dungeons, aka SF, KC, RG, to almost instant que pops, and almost always a higher toon often more doing them.

So if their intentions are to make the DS Super Elitest only, don't seem to be many taking it up as they all coming into the trash dungeons.

The biggest problem with Tera IMHO, and not just Tera really but most modern MMO's, they make too much stuff non tradeable.

Now, if they made everything tradeable, even if it was by trade broker only, we wouldn't even be having this discussion about elitests and lowers, as those who have the skill and gear would farm the highest dungeons, sell the gear to those who can't, win win for all.

I remember the old days of PWI (Perfect World International) the guild I was in did that all the time, there were some I just couldn't do, so I would farm mats and other things and they would run the dungeons to get the high level mats, and what we got excess of we sold on, and it actually paid us to find new players to teach them and get them to their max ability to increase stocks and they got goodies from it too.

Ahh well, is what it is, guess we just put up with it or all go learn korean and play Ktera, cries in my elin snacks on that thought lol.

This was done in Neverwinter, when it first came out, and the problem is that, after a very short while, there was no reason to run the dungeons at all, because everyone already had all the gear from the trade broker equivalent, and it was cheap enough that just about anyone could afford it too.
Dreadspire isnt for everyone.
If you are planning to clear it, you need a certain geared and skilled player level and, invest your time in a static-group, accepting unconscious situations that may occur and play your best in every single pull that you will do.
Afterall, overcoming obstacles and challenges is what makes elitist players enjoyable for them.
Personally, I'm not interested because it's not worth my time
but I wish good luck to those who try and i hope to watch a video in youtube about the clear :+1:
The game needs challenging content as there isn't any reason to get gear. With Awakening and the lack of changing for Awakening, HH is a rollover with 1 paw strats so outside of the current high tier dungeon of AAH, there is no reason to get more gear.

I personally stopped getting gear myself after a point (Full SC on EU and SC weap and FM gear on NA) cause Im just like "Why do I need this? I can do what i want to in this game" so adding something challenging gives people a reason to go the extra mile and get further gear and push onto Heroic Vow and push their skill to clear the content.

Is it worth it? That's up to you really, you value stuff differently than others (Like how people see Costumes vs Enchanting stuff) but at least there is something for the hardcore players to tackle and something for the lower skilled players to look up and perhaps get motivated and work towards in an attempt to run
TERA PC - General Discussion#31 SonNecCa07/12/2018, 10:11 PM
New content for Storm Cry Geared Players? Ok, fine, bring DreadSpire on!
New content for Frost Metal Geared Players? Nah, let them keep doing the same old thing again and again until they get Storm Cry. Who Cares?

Almost full Storm Cry, still gonna keep doing trash dungeons to buy costumes, because that's the real endgame content of TERA: Costumes.
No content for FM geared players lmao. We have enough contents the kind of gears most people will use for only about a week.

About DS being difficult, it is difficult for everyone and no one is stopping you from learning it.

Our static went in blind and we immediately wiped on 1st boss. But after 2 wipes we can tell all of his special attack/mechanics and the run went relatively smooth.

All the crybabies in this thread just want easy stuff without working for it.

DS is not for everyone who is a lazy [filtered] with a loser attitude.
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