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TERA PC - General Discussion: Lancer vs brawler clear times
Greeting everyone!

Since it’s “lancer month” thought we should talk about lancer vs brawler the top two tanks.

Which one would you prefer to have in your group?

I used to be mainly favoring lancer because of andrealine Rush and guardian shout. But comparing numbers on moongourd. It seems that lancer mainly contribute only about 7-15% of the groups dps. While compared to brawlers 12-25% dps. I don’t well seem to see that much of a difference in clear times. And for some dungeons like RR it much easier to tank as a brawler on final boss because of growing fury. You practically don’t get hit at all.
I have both brawler and lancer in Stormcry and it just seems brawlers dps is wayyy better.

Maybe I’m missing something here. What do you guys think?
Lancers do less dps but contribute more since their buffs make others stronger, and everyone prefers that honestly. Although nobody will decline a brawler since let's be honest, tanks are so rare any will do.
I prefer to have a lancer in my party as they give buffs to the party letting us clear a bit faster. Although that's only really true when everyone knows what they are doing within the dungeon. Brawlers are easier to carry people with their dps, or if a dps doesn't put out as much damage for a check brawlers are safer for that reason
Brawler DPS doesn't seem better, it is better. And as you get better with it by timing perfect blocks, proper skill priorities, haymaker resets, etc, they only get farther ahead. Though Growing Fury can swing the pendulum widely for a Brawler. Fast attacking bosses really boost Brawlers, while bosses with mechanics that force you to stop DPSing can burn out Furies and put Brawlers on their back foot.

But lancer brings a lot more utility to the table to make up for that DPS. Hold aggro more easily, quick and reliable blocks, and ways to mitigate party damage.

In a good party, Lancer buffs will bring more DPS as a whole than the better Brawler DPS. In a bad party where other DPS is dying often to mechanics, Brawler is better. But both are good tank classes, so I personally would never boot one.

Warrior is the question mark. They bring DPS *and* buffs now, so you would want them over a Brawler in a good party, and are better at carrying than a Lancer in a bad one. In short, a perfect hybrid... however they require a lot more skill than a Lancer or a Brawler to tank with. Being squishier means they'll kiss dirt more often if they're mediocre, so I always worry a bit when a pug Warrior tank shows up. But why do that when Warrior DPS is so much easier and gearing is expensive?
Let me give you a REAL answer.

DPS doesn't like Brawlers outdpsing them. It makes them feel miniscule and helpless. Lancer doesn't reach closer to their epeen DPS and Lancer gives them larger numbers.

And that's your real answer as to why hardcore ppl wants Lancers over Brawlers. Personal DPS parse manipulation.
DL7MMWLJ3W wrote: »
Let me give you a REAL answer.

Proceeds to trashpost, projecting his inadequacies onto others and otherwise reaching pretty far to draw unsupported conclusions.

Yeah, you sure hit us with that real talk. Insert obvious sarcasm disclaimer here.
Basically it's how it's been for a long time - lancer is better in a good party, brawler is faster clears with a mediocre or bad party.
Personally I find certain dungeons easier to carry on lancer because i have more utility when my healer accidentally unplugs their keyboard and flushes it down the toilet halfway through a fight, but brawler is generally better for IMSing 439- dungeons because you'll make the runs so much faster and won't constantly be out of mana.
If the tank knows how to grab and hold aggro, I couldn't care less which one.

Hell, gimme a zerk- and war-tank too. I'm flexible.
Generally if party needs to be carried, get brawler. Lancer's support skills don't help much when the party can't make use of it.

If party is good, they would want lancer. Dps prefer to see their own dps boosted.
I don’t understand why people don’t like to tank. I hardly ever have trouble tanking unless I’m new to the instance. In that case a guide from essential mana is great.

Tanking is much easier now than before when we could use multiple threat crystals and dps could use eclipse potions.

Pretty sure we’re gonna get a flood of tanks once Elin brawler is released.
I don’t understand why people don’t like to tank. I hardly ever have trouble tanking unless I’m new to the instance. In that case a guide from essential mana is great.

Tanking is much easier now than before when we could use multiple threat crystals and dps could use eclipse potions.

Pretty sure we’re gonna get a flood of tanks once Elin brawler is released.

Consider the following:

The average new player has the following options: a) the sword and shield class who looks somewhat clunky, b) the class who punches people but is race-locked (for better or worse), or c) the class with the sword, the other class with the sword, or the class with the greataxe. Factoring in that said player may not have played MMOs before, the possible outcome then becomes more obvious.

Keep in mind that most tanks (and supports for that matter) are people who tried a DPS class first, then decided to shake things up to see what would happen.
TERA PC - General Discussion#12 Ranran07/09/2018, 09:14 AM
ppl always say that brawler carries harder cause they do more damage but don't consider the fact that brawlers poor utility and ability to position and hold aggro makes them worse at carrying. There's just so much more that a good lancer can do to make a fight easier for even bad players or people new to a fight, and gs/ar make it worth using over brawler with even average dps players. a party with 1 good dps and 1 good lancer should always outdps 1 good dps and good brawler by a noticeable margin.

unless your endgame dungons are always 2/3 dps and a healer on the ground with a healer and tank soloing the boss for 70% of the fight idk why you'd actually choose a brawler over a lancer instead of kicking the garbage dps players from your group first.

Prefer Lancers. They keep aggro easily making my job easier, I can charge my skills fully and have time to properly aim my backcrit. Good DPS depends on a good tank. However Brawlers are good too, and if they want to outdps me I don't really care, more the merrier, but remember that you are there to keep the boss in place to inflict back damage no to masturbate to your awesome high damage.
As an endgame Lancer and knowing an endgame brawler plus knowing a +0fm tier lancer and brawler who exceeds at their classes (dpsing), I can say for sure doing i431 and below dungeon is really fun because you hit as hard as brawlers (3-4.5m/s in trnm) but once you go into i446, you might feel like dungeons are made for brawlers more because lancers have to block and lose dps in ratio compared to a brawler and it doesn't feel as good (RR and AA dungeon) . But saying that, lancer's utility can't be replace, skipping mechanics with divine protection and guardian barrier. A.rush + g.shout really helps some classes push harder, aka zerker's unleash or sorc's manaboost, it can't outweigh brawlers damage even if they're top dps in the party, as long as everyone else is decently strong. For lower tier where you don't usually play with someone strong, a brawler carries a lot better because lancers need a lot of power to make a difference to reach brawler's level plus lancing takes a ton more experience as a player since brawlers auto-block and lancer can get kd and lose their stack or don't know how to push hard in a. rush to max their string atk hits. So in the end, lancers are harder to play and in the start its hard, but it's gets a lot easier once you push pass storm cry or if you're really experience or willing to learn how to master that class. Brawlers are just strong overall, and it still takes a lot of skills to master it (just less) and if you play with ppl who aren't good players or queue a lot, brawlers are superior. Or if you like to just brawl, do it. Forget others since it's all about fun
TERA PC - General Discussion#15 Saetto07/09/2018, 05:16 PM
As a warrior tank i feel offended by this kind of post or when ppl say warrior tanks are useless, when i have got someclasses get higher records with me than lancer. As warrior tank i can perfectly outdps a brawler or get the same amount of damage (and im talking about ethical brawlers no scripters and macro things), yes i know there are so many warrior that just turn D stance only because they cant find a tank, that kind of warriors give real main D stance players a bad image. Our endurance debuff may be 2% lower than lancer/brawler but a perma 11.6% attack speed compensate it, also its easier to chase the front so some classes with lower mobility dont need to waste their iframes just to reach boss's back. Plus! I have got some classes get higher dps records with warrior tank than with lancer.
With all this said, thanks for reading. I'm Skum from MT, nice to meet you c:
In my opinion a brawler is better for a party where the DPS haven't mastered their classes yet (but in such a case the brawler has to know what they are doing instead). in such a case the brawler's dps will make up for the lost dps of others, assuming that the brawler knows the rotation well and can adapt.

lancer is good for a party where the DPS know what they are doing (aka know their rotations/playstyles in and out) and how to make the best use of the enrage times and lancer's buffs. the party dps will skyrocket then.
How can you be offended? For a game character class? I hope you are being sarcastic.
dmaxcustom wrote: »
How can you be offended? For a game character class? I hope you are being sarcastic.

They're implying that their lack of inclusion is insulting, similar to how, for a while, nobody cared for priests for a good bit irrespective of that priest's playing ability. Warr-tanks were always considered "second class" (except around the Go Berserk! patch) and let's not get into the common perception of zerk-tanks right now.

That said, considering the last sentence, maybe they were joshing the rest of us, if only a little. :P
I don’t understand why people don’t like to tank. I hardly ever have trouble tanking unless I’m new to the instance. In that case a guide from essential mana is great.

Tanking is much easier now than before when we could use multiple threat crystals and dps could use eclipse potions.

Pretty sure we’re gonna get a flood of tanks once Elin brawler is released.

The BIG DAMAGE is your reason
TERA PC - General Discussion#20 Lapomko07/10/2018, 04:06 PM
Lancer beat brawler even more these days thanks to a paid third party tool that ridiculously improve the DPS by inhumane folds.
The choice is clear to have a lancer in your party unless he does low dps.
Saetto wrote: »
As a warrior tank i feel offended by this kind of post or when ppl say warrior tanks are useless, when i have got someclasses get higher records with me than lancer. As warrior tank i can perfectly outdps a brawler or get the same amount of damage (and im talking about ethical brawlers no scripters and macro things), yes i know there are so many warrior that just turn D stance only because they cant find a tank, that kind of warriors give real main D stance players a bad image. Our endurance debuff may be 2% lower than lancer/brawler but a perma 11.6% attack speed compensate it, also its easier to chase the front so some classes with lower mobility dont need to waste their iframes just to reach boss's back. Plus! I have got some classes get higher dps records with warrior tank than with lancer.
With all this said, thanks for reading. I'm Skum from MT, nice to meet you c:

Agreed -- Warrior should be on everyone's list as a main tank option. Great DPS like a Brawler with support like a Lancer. The problem is higher skillcap, and people gearing for DPS rather than tanking and just throwing on D stance means they're riskier. I played Warrior tank back in the evasion tank days, and this is tempting me to revive it and help more people mark it on their list of top tank choices.
Warrior tank is the easiest tank to play on Rk-9.

Gear grind on ventauron, just use death from above!

Pizza cutter on hexaphelon just use death from above! Or backstab and block the rear push.

Rk 9 is probably the easiest to tank on warrior. You can iframe triple fish rocket punch with death from above. Torrent of blows on s bomb. When I was first learning how to tank Rk-9 and wasn’t good enough to do it on my lancer, warrior was my first tank clear.

The utility in terms of iframe and the damage you can soak up with torrent of blows and shadow is absolutely amazing. You can practically stay in place during most of the boss fight just by using death from above while other tanks have to dodge back.
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