TERA Online forum archive
General Discussion: My thoughts on trolling, DPS and elitism
View post on Tera forums#1 MsKelevra01/12/2018, 01:40 PM
Hi!

What you are about to read is not a #crymeariverpost. I just wanted to express myself and hopefully in the process open other peoples eyes. I should also say that I have all my alts on TR so I don't really have too much experience with other servers - perhaps this is not the case at your tera home. :)

I have for almost 6 years enjoyed this game, with some breaks here and there, upon til recently.
So, I have never really had one main but if I were to pick one it would have been priest for the past 3 years, until this patch, because who wants priest, right?
Everyone (in my own experience) wants a mystic, so I decided to only play mystic for a while, something I love doing so it's not a loss for me.
I also have a good geared brawler and sorc (read sc ++), so I switch around depending what class we need atm - however I play mystic the most.

For the past few days I have been "struggling" with the community. What really made me decide to stop playing tera, for now anyways, was how much trolling my party had to go thru yday. To the story, me and two of my good friends were trying to get a party going for RKE, me as a mystic, one of my friend as brawler and second one on archer. They are both at +7 sc, which is enough for RKE. But because we hadn't cleared it yet in this setup (not mentioned in the lfg), no one would apply and even more so people would log their alts to start trolling us by applying to the party with low geared toons, spamming pms and would keep at it for a while. Myself, I don't care much about trolls but my friends took offense and became rather tilted by it.

So how did they know we hadn't cleared on these toons yet? Most of you know the answer to that question already. Without mentioning it by name there is a website that stores this information by people using banned software. I think I am the only veteran player alive who does not agree with this nor use it - never have and never will. After 6 years I don't need to have any software telling me how I am doing, I know if I am doing great, good or bad.

So what is really the problem? People get blinded by the numbers. IMO big numbers is not equal to a good dps - however a good dps is usually equal to big numbers. This might sound a bit confusing but it's not really. It just means I put alot more meaning into the term "good dps". To me, it means knowing and doing mechs properly, not facetanking everything every chance you get, be a teamplayer, have a good attitude etc. But to many others it just means pulling great numbers - no matter if they die, facetank, skip mechs - just making life harder for everyone else. I am obviously fully aware that there are mechs you need to take to the face, not as many in this patch, but there still are some.

So what do I want? I just want people to start thinking about the community as a whole, about trolling, about treating each other with respect. I don't need anyone to tell me I am good, I know I am a fairly good healer/dps although I suck at tanking >.<. I aim to do the hardest content, because its the most fun and challening but in the process me and my friends are met with elitism, sarcasm, trashtalking etc. Please, start to think about the bigger picture and not just about the big numbers. If you are not ready to do so, then please stay in your statics with people who share your views and stop caring about LFG.

Much love!
Over and out,
V
View post on Tera forums#2 VirtualON01/12/2018, 01:58 PM
I firmly believe people who don't use dps meter are in most cases bad dps and are just scared to see how they are compared to other people.

Healers obviously don't care about their dps, but the party member dps is still an interesting read.
MsKelevra wrote: »
So how did they know we hadn't cleared on these toons yet? Most of you know the answer to that question already. Without mentioning it by name there is a website that stores this information by people using banned software.

Stopped reading after this.

You do realize when people inspect you they can see what you've cleared and what you haven't? There is no need to use any outside information. It's all available in game.

View post on Tera forums#4 MsKelevra01/12/2018, 02:11 PM
@CassandraTR Ofc I do, but for RKE goes under RKH, so people do look others up. I am just telling you mine and my friends experience. You can obviously compare achievments with someone else too, where you can easily see if they have certain ones. Something a lot people do not know.
So yes, the info is ingame if you care to look for it.
Although that wasn't the point I was trying to make with the post, next time you should read it all.
View post on Tera forums#5 Ray67601/12/2018, 02:32 PM
having a good attitude is a necessary in doing big dips, stop cry and make your own static. there's other people in the game who think elitism exists in this game. you can all clear RKE and be wrong together, everyone wins
View post on Tera forums#6 admonitu01/12/2018, 02:33 PM
I’m not promoting the use of the meter or the website that the said meter uploads the results to. But players usually have no idea how bad they do until they actually see their own number. Sure, they can survive mechs and know the dungeon, but they never really bother to push their class to the limit unless they know exactly how they are doing.

Getting high DPS requires team work and thorough understanding of mechanics and their own class. Knowing to facetank only when safe and necessary, knowing how to handle mechs in a way that will allow everyone in the pt, including yourself, to pull higher DPS, your own class skill rotations, knowing how to be aggressive without getting yourself killed.

Some groups are known to slow down DPS in preparation for big push during upcoming enrage so everyone’s buff is up and etc. And communicate their buff cd to other members.

The people you’re describing are just amateurs who selfishly try hard to pull big numbers and fail.

You use meter or the website as tools to improve your gameplay, not harass others. The said website tells you what skills you used, how many times, and allow you to look at better players and their skill usage so you can find which area you need to focus on. It also tells you rebuff or buff up times so even healers can work on improving their game. Despite being against TOS, it can potentially provide so much benefit and it’s sad to see people abusing it.
View post on Tera forums#7 MsKelevra01/12/2018, 02:45 PM
@admonitu You make a good point, I do believe people could make good use of it. Using it to improve their own rotation, testing out crit vs power etc. So yes, in that aspect I am all for it.
My "first" clear on mystic is up on said website, after looking it up, it says I had 99% uptime on volley of curses and zero deaths - contagion I already know I could have used better (during enrage). But overall I think it was ok, for a "first" clear.

I do see the benefits, but the system is being abused, sadly.

You also mention something I forgot above, knowing your class - ty for bringing it up :)
View post on Tera forums#8 MsKelevra01/12/2018, 02:47 PM
@Ray676 Sorry but I don't really follow your reasoning
View post on Tera forums#9 ElinLove01/12/2018, 02:59 PM
VirtualON wrote: »
I firmly believe people who don't use dps meter are in most cases bad dps and are just scared to see how they are compared to other people.

Healers obviously don't care about their dps, but the party member dps is still an interesting read.

To be fair, I think this is a pretty childish argument. There's way more to the meter's use than just liking to see the big numbers or being against because you're scared of the low ones.There's many people that just feel better about being by the rules. The rules say no? Then no. Why would they be wrong now? Scared of low numbers? No they just do by the rules and fine. There's those like me that never wanted to go through the bother of installing it after seeing some versions just work with some specific LAN cards and I wouldn't bother trying that out too. There's those that are scared of a non-licensed software that logs their data. There's many reasons to either be against it or in favor of it.

I'm one that always found it cool when people posted my DPS, so I would know how good/bad I was doing, and sure enough I was usually just average if that even. Some moments I was specifically interested on it because of a glyph and roll test I was doing. I did just see I was doing badly, and no pride to swallow there, just "wow I gotta work that out!".
View post on Tera forums#10 CassandraTR01/12/2018, 03:08 PM
MsKelevra wrote: »
@CassandraTR Ofc I do, but for RKE goes under RKH, so people do look others up. I am just telling you mine and my friends experience. You can obviously compare achievments with someone else too, where you can easily see if they have certain ones. Something a lot people do not know.
So yes, the info is ingame if you care to look for it.
Although that wasn't the point I was trying to make with the post, next time you should read it all.

No, I don't need to read the rest. You said you were trolled by people, with no proof of trolling. You said they trolled you because they looked you up on a website, again with no proof of this, then you said you don't use a dps meter. Ok. Cool. Don't use one.

Your entire post can be summed up by your last sentence:
"If you are not ready to do so, then please stay in your statics with people who share your views and stop caring about LFG."

If you aren't ready to deal with RKH/E LFG being populated by very skilled, and sometimes very elitist players, then stick with your guild and make a static with people who share your skill level and your views.

You can stop any and all trolling by running with people you know. Take your own advice.
I don't use a dps meter, but I don't really get your complaint here.

It's pretty obvious that RKEM is a very dps dependant boss needing all of them to be on top of their game. While I don't use a meter, I also don't have a high tolerance for players that die a lot or have yet to optimize their rotation because they're being stubborn. In other words, I only really stick with my static. Its a group where we've already spent the hours wiping to iron out the details so that we clear it on the first try majority of the time.

RKEM is the endgame, you can't fault players for having high expectations of their party
View post on Tera forums#12 MsKelevra01/12/2018, 03:36 PM
@CassandraTR Seems as I am not making myself clear, since you keep missing the point.
1. I never said I didnt have proof, I do have proof. However, I am not going to post it here on the forum.
2. I don't have a problem with skilled players, which you seem to suggest. I don't cry, I don't get tilted and I don't take offense to people trolling ME but others do. I only the messenger here. And to respond to your advice upon not being in LFG, it's simple I like meeting new people. This is after all a MMO, isn't it? I have made many of my friends from LFG pugs.
3. You also seem to suggest I am not skilled or perhaps I am reading too much into it but just out of curiousity (if it is the case) I wonder what makes you think that?
View post on Tera forums#13 MsKelevra01/12/2018, 03:49 PM
@ValiantCorvus Ofc you should have high expectations for people doing RKE. It would be rather daft to not have. I don't like wiping for hours on end either - especially when I have done my own fair share of training.
However, this was not meant as a complaint, only to raise a discussion regarding the community.
I am not faulting players for wanting to clear or to have high expectations but with that said do you think they also have the right to bully others just cus they are not yet registered on a website?

I am not upset that people didn't want to join us, my friends however were upset over the fact that some people went out of their ways to troll our party. I don't mind waiting a bit for people to join me and certainly rather wait a bit longer rather than having someone who will be rude to my friends join us.
View post on Tera forums#14 ElinUsagi01/12/2018, 03:51 PM
@CassandraTR I could have 0 clears of EVERY dungeon and you won't be able to see that when you inspect my character because you can have up to 4 clears on each dungeon and you will see the same text for them.

You don't see the "amount of times" another has cleared a dungeon with the in-game commands, you had to use unnoficial means to do that.
View post on Tera forums#15 CornishRex01/12/2018, 04:18 PM
ElinUsagi wrote: »
You don't see the "amount of times" another has cleared a dungeon with the in-game commands, you had to use unnoficial means to do that.

Which unofficial means? Moongourd isn't exactly the best for that because it doesn't always log things perfectly. My 100+ vsh runs weren't completely logged. Or sometimes people don't upload runs etc.
Also could you maybe see the amount of runs from inspecting the person and comparing achievements? Would the 77 runs cheevo show the amount? I'm wondering since I've never tried it.
View post on Tera forums#16 MsKelevra01/12/2018, 04:24 PM
@CornishRex No you wouldn't be able to see the exact amount, only that you got the achievment and at what point in time :)
View post on Tera forums#17 CassandraTR01/12/2018, 04:31 PM
MsKelevra wrote: »
@CassandraTR Seems as I am not making myself clear, since you keep missing the point.
1. I never said I didnt have proof, I do have proof. However, I am not going to post it here on the forum.
2. I don't have a problem with skilled players, which you seem to suggest. I don't cry, I don't get tilted and I don't take offense to people trolling ME but others do. I am only the messenger here. And to respond to your advice upon not being in LFG, it's simple I like meeting new people. This is after all a MMO, isn't it? I have made many of my friends from LFG pugs.
3. You also seem to suggest I am not skilled or perhaps I am reading too much into it but just out of curiousity (if it is the case) I wonder what makes you think that?

I never said you weren't skilled. I said:

Find people "who share your skill level and your views." Find people who share BOTH skill AND views on the game. It doesn't matter if you are skilled and they are skilled if they are elitist and you don't mind a few wipes.

Find people who share BOTH. Take your own advice.
View post on Tera forums#18 CornishRex01/12/2018, 06:15 PM
MsKelevra wrote: »
@CornishRex No you wouldn't be able to see the exact amount, only that you got the achievment and at what point in time :)

Thanks a bunch, was wondering if it could be a viable way of comparing runs lol
View post on Tera forums#19 JXE5356AKE01/12/2018, 06:27 PM
I don't think most people here think it's right to troll you based off of unskilled, site or not. You also cannot equate the site to trolling either.
A viable strategy for lfg is to make it on a skilled or cleared character, then when people app, let them know you're swapping off. They can decide if they want to stay from there or not. Also clearing once or twice, even 5 times is far from skilled, so you should understand people are wary since they can lose entries if they find the party is not good enough to clear. Just communicate that you've cleared on other chars and that's all you can really do. Even with the site backing up someone's clear, being unskilled on a character is risk enough to some people, just find people likeminded to yourself to run with.
View post on Tera forums#20 voidy01/12/2018, 07:02 PM
JXE5356AKE wrote: »
But because we hadn't cleared it yet in this setup (not mentioned in the lfg), no one would apply and even more so people would log their alts to start trolling us by applying to the party with low
JXE5356AKE wrote: »
A viable strategy for lfg is to make it on a skilled or cleared character, then when people app, let them know you're swapping off. They can decide if they want to stay from there or not.

Gotta keep in mind, the only difference between LFG and IMS is transparency and filtering. You're rendering the system moot if you don't specify that it's a learning run or you present your group in one way (eg. with a skilled tank) only to switch to something else once people join under that pretense.

I think a lot of LFG issues could be mitigated by removing the low character count requirement. If someone were able to make an LFG called "Need 2 DPS for RK9EM, no DPS meters preferred; we've cleared before but not in this setup," then it'd get the point across much better than "N>2DPS RK9EM" which basically doesn't say anything and makes it hard to find groups that you want to play with. I'd also like this function because it would allow me to create "N>healer, I don't care if you're a priest or a mystic as long as you restore my mana during adrenaline rush" LFGs.

Also that site you're referring to, while its existence does have some downsides, it's basically the only thing keeping the competitive PVE crowd around. BHS needs to bring back in-game scoreboards so people don't feel compelled to do it themselves.
My view on this is pretty basic - if someone lies to me and tells me they're better than they are, they are willfully wasting my time and inconveniencing me. Having a way to compare people at a glance is convenient because it means there's less times when you have that classic "yeah this is an alt!" conversation and it's clear that they have no clue what they're doing after the first 20 minutes of wiping. However, that doesn't mean people should troll. If there's an lfg full of people who aren't up to your standards, I would say.. just don't join that lfg. Insulting people is never appropriate, and neither is lying to people.
View post on Tera forums#22 Xandervb01/13/2018, 04:39 AM
That's because ppl play for grind, not for fun. Sometimes it's way more entertaining and challenging to wipe with newbs for an hour than to repeat exactly same perf pattern few times a day on different alts. Tera has little variety and many ppl keep playing it despite clearly not enjoying repeating same content hundreds of times, just to get some shiny gear that in the end is useless because you are already bored with everything.
View post on Tera forums#23 Xristosx01/13/2018, 05:26 AM
If i wanted to check if someone had cleared and they were lying to me i would just check their achievements. Since there is a achievement for the first clear atleast.
lEUp8lf.jpg
While those people were being assholes still maybe you shouldn't accuse people right off the bat that their cheating. There are legitimate ways to find out people haven't done something.
View post on Tera forums#24 MsKelevra01/13/2018, 11:52 AM
@JXE5356AKE
Yes ofc people have the right to not join, that's not the issue at all. I respect that completely.
I totally understand that people want a fast painless clear, it's all fine and dandy.
I have days like that myself, where I don't want to wipe for hours on end. :)

@voidy
That would be an awesome idea, just thinking about how to make it work practically! Hmm food for thought indeed.
I do realize that in my original post it seemed as if I completely disagrees with meter and the website, however I do see the benefits of having it.
As I have mentioned before it is obviousluy a good way for people to try out new builds etc.
Then if you decide to use it or not is up to you.
Personally I don't use it for several reasons.

@KillerPenguins
I agree with your statment to a fair amount. I don't like being lied to either, rather they tell me the truth instead of me finding out they don't know mechs at last boss. I don't mind spending a bit of time explaining and I often invite people to discord with me too, that way they get to listen to my raspy voice (win/win for everyone) :P In all seriousness though, I enjoy teaching people if I know that from the start (not as a surprise wipefest later on). I also don't have a problem with people not joining lfg based on their source of information, no matter how they got it. You overall got my point. :)

@Xandervb
Well I cannot speak for others, some like grinding, some don't, the choice is their own. Myself I play for fun - fun for me is doing the hardest content and sometimes 100's of times. But I think I got your point, in your experience people only grind cus it needs to be done. I hope that's not the case because if so there is better ways to spend your time >.<

@Xristosx
I was merely trying to start a discussion, not to start drama. Sadly you are not the only one thinking this is a drama post, even though I tried making my intentions clear from the start. Some people have come up with nice ideas on how to "fix the problem". How to get them to work is another question though.
View post on Tera forums#25 ElinLove01/13/2018, 04:08 PM
voidy wrote: »
[...]

I think a lot of LFG issues could be mitigated by removing the low character count requirement. If someone were able to make an LFG called "Need 2 DPS for RK9EM, no DPS meters preferred; we've cleared before but not in this setup," then it'd get the point across much better than "N>2DPS RK9EM" which basically doesn't say anything and makes it hard to find groups that you want to play with. I'd also like this function because it would allow me to create "N>healer, I don't care if you're a priest or a mystic as long as you restore my mana during adrenaline rush" LFGs.

Also that site you're referring to, while its existence does have some downsides, it's basically the only thing keeping the competitive PVE crowd around. BHS needs to bring back in-game scoreboards so people don't feel compelled to do it themselves.

That idea seems great, but I would also extend it: One thing I've always felt important on an LFG, is a proper description text. I mean you click the LFG and with the current members showing, you are greeted to a description text like, for example: "<LFG>LKNM noob run anyone welcome" (already at the limit/bigger than limit), then you click it and it shows the party members and: "Anyone welcome, noob/trap receptive. Don't apply if you want a fast clear, healer limits testing. Feel free to bring barely minimum geared alts or learn the dungeon here".

This is basically the way I have fun at LKNM so I end up queing for IM, tho on IM you get a bad balance between people who are eager to learn, idiots who just troll/AFK and want carry (I'm OK with carry as long as you try being useful/try to learn), and the farmers wanting a fast clear. It does end up as some bits of stress every now and then when people underperform (or the trolls obviously).

By the way I just checked the site and I had some runs uploaded as a healer there. It seems it only logs the DPS and not the healer performance tho, I just showed up with a green glow around, whatever that means (if it was just the player selected/searched... whatever).

I'm frankly all fine with a top DPS/fastest clean run ranking and all, but as long as it's always kept inside the community that wants it and doesn't harass the part that isn't into it and want chill/trap runs.
Also I'm not so sure what's the "Wall of Shame" there too. If it's players that upload it themselves specifically to that wall of shame just for laughs at their own messes, or if it's automatic on the lowest performing groups to go way down there, that's frankly one thing way too prone to harassment. But well, it's kinda obvious proof of who did it so anyone doing so is at their own risk after all.
View post on Tera forums#26 Bluezcluez01/14/2018, 03:55 PM
Does this post matter? You stopped playing! Good for you and good for the community! Move on! Or are you trying to get the community to pity you to give you a reason to come back to the game?
View post on Tera forums#27 ElinUsagi01/14/2018, 04:07 PM
Bluezcluez wrote: »
Does this post matter? You stopped playing! Good for you and good for the community! Move on! Or are you trying to get the community to pity you to give you a reason to come back to the game?

You didn't read the first post from OP, did you?.

You are actually giving reasons for this thread to exist because it talks about something you are doing with your post.
View post on Tera forums#28 Bluezcluez01/15/2018, 11:29 PM
I did read it and its a post which cries for attention even if the author denies it.
View post on Tera forums#29 ElinLove01/16/2018, 12:13 AM
-wrong thread, forget this and move on-
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