TERA Online forum archive
TERA PC - General Discussion: community discussion about low performing players
So here's the situation that I have come across. We'll use it as an example, an arch type if you will rather than to hate on some individual.

Just for context, I was running RG on a warrior, frostmetal +0 swords that I pushed up so I can grind out item exp for the rest of the armor more comfortably. It's a second warrior alt so I'm fairly familiar with the class. I had gotten an instance match, a valk and a lancer. So I swap to offense stance and build because, hey lancer. The way the first boss went, the lancer didn't use any buffs, can't hold aggro, didn't take care of any mechanics and did damage on par of a healer that's specifically trying to dps. It left me and the valk chasing the back of the boss, the valk wasn't very experienced as well but we got through it. My damage was basically cut in half in comparison to a working party. Again I'll say that damage comparisons are meant to provide context.

So I shrugged it off and swapped my build to defense stance. I had the crystals and glyphs already set up, but can't afford secondary sword rolls.

The lizard went better, my damage was about the same and the valk's damage shot up 4 times than last boss. The lancer however did the same, didn't read the situation, kept shouting to try to keep aggro, which is a problem in general as if it were someone else who had the correct sword rolls, would actually lower the dps of the person trying to tank, generally being useless or even detrimental. The rest of the dungeon run was like this and I didn't say anything to the lancer.

So to simplify, I met a worryingly bad lancer and compensated the best I could with what I got without bringing it up to the guy.

So the question I want to ask, was this the right thing to do?


We have to assume this Lancer isn't just running one dungeon. The lancer will come across many people. He will keep being a detriment to parties. Is it right not to mention poor performance, or is it right to not mention it and delay it so someone else who's less patient to lay into him? The tank role is an important position. I have to include that this person actively lowers other people's damage potential and generally doesn't contribute any meaningful damage himself. I figure to anyone who can identify him as an issue would become very annoyed.

The most reasonable, possibly usual scenario I could think of is the Lancer would have been kicked and replaced by literally anything else. Since it's RG, no problem for us. If it were KC or SF however, tanks aren't easy to find. It also just passes the Lancer along to some other party to deal with. Also it might give him the idea "they could've said something first" and think we were all toxic or something.

If I were to say anything, chances are the guy would shut down, give the usual responses, call me toxic and elitist, maybe come to the forums and tell you guys about the toxic players etc etc.


So I lay it to the forum. I see a lot of people on the side of anti toxicity, how do we solve these issues that wouldn't just ignore and spread the problem. I think we can't just think that the victim of tongue lashing is always some saint, defensiveness and unwillingness to change or learn is also very toxic and brings out the worst in others. So what can be done?
Usually when I see a player that is clearly below the average you use to play with, I ask them if they could allow me a couple of minutes of their time after the last boss.

If they are ok with that I explain what they are doing wrong and how could they improve their performance and if the player is not in a guild I would recommend them to join a guild I know will welcome him and help him to improve.

If they don't answer or answer in a negative way I just continue with the run and leave him in his own world.

I think kicking a person from a run, at least on 2 and 3 star dungeons, won't help them to improbe at all because they actually needs to play to improve.

The only thing that will drag a player to improve is their willingness to do it, they don't need read guides or look at videos at all, they only need to be willing to learn and accept friendly advise from others. If they are not willingly to learn at 2 or 3 star dungeons then just ignore them.
Basically, there is only one thing you can do:

Try to give them constructive, specific suggestions about the encounter or things they can try that don't come across as accusatory, personal, or attacking. Remember some people are new, and some people are also having bad days. If they are responsive to the suggestions, great. If not, then move on with your life; complete the run if you can, or accept the drop-out. No matter what MMO I've played, you'll always have some wonky/questionable PUGs with "bad players."

(And don't low-key or high-key admit to specifically tracking the damage players are doing, particularly not in PUG content. Just talk in generalities about mechanics and principles.)
In the case that they speak the same language / actually pay attention to chat (one of my pet peves that people don't actually read chat sometimes), then you can ask if you can give them some feedback. Most players will want to get better at their class, so I'm sure they won't be insulted by you offering feedback or anything.

On the other hand, if they don't read chat / don't speak the same language, just send them a link from EssentialMana with a guide for their class. That's really all you can do in this case, but you can of course do that for the other case as well. If they follow any class guide on that site (as long as it's relatively up to date) then they'll do fine with their class.

Short Answer: EssentialMana
>Queues into Instance Matching knowing it's a bastion of low skilled players
>Encounters low skilled players
>Complain about said low skilled players on the forums.

???
Your party was nice.

There are hours when the LFG is dead and its best to queue .. which and did and met this cute ninja elin with frostshard that was fortunately using proper crystals and doing crits more or less from behind but not wanting to use nostrum or hopefully canephora/bravery ( there are simple ways to get those without elite ). And at the 3rd boss i asked the ninja if she/he can use a nostrum at least to make it quicker because i was the only one doing damage mostly since i was a brawler and the other was a priest and we were inside there already for 10minutes.. so the ninja said " why would i use consumables for a 2star dungeon.. rofl" then i asked "why not? its always best to make it faster" and i got something like "shut up elitist ahole"

My brawler has +3sc and i was full on consumables so maybe he thought that i was trying to be rude.. but the thing is that if we consider the time spent in there gold wise then it is very much viable to actually use nostrum/bravery and even a cheap soup that costs 30g at broker and gives +10 crit besides getting proper crystals or hopefully glyphs/etchings ( IOD is so simple these days ) because there is a difference from clearing in 7-10minutes and clearing in 15+ minutes ( some LFG parties even take 5minutes ).

And for some reason i am getting better KC parties through queue rather than RG these days though the reason could be that one player that is messing around purposely or not has less impact in a 5man party than in a 3man party dps wise..


p.s. i am not sure how to help players to improve when they fire up so fast whenever the topic arises
Pixelator wrote: »
>Queues into Instance Matching knowing it's a bastion of low skilled players
>Encounters low skilled players
>Complain about said low skilled players on the forums.

???

>greentexts out of 4chan

The discussion is what to do about them, not that they exist.
Pixelator wrote: »
>Queues into Instance Matching knowing it's a bastion of low skilled players
>Encounters low skilled players
>Complain about said low skilled players on the forums.

???

Yep, you're proof that people don't read at all.

Well, that was kinda rude of me yeah but... hey, the topic is not about the complaint, but rather: how to deal with a poorly performing player? Should we teach them, call it out only, or just let it be? That's the issue at hand, not the poor performance, but how to deal with it as a veteran.

And now to my view on the topic:
I find it really interesting and productive that you brought this discussion up, as we've just witnessed 2 cases a few days ago of players that had to deal with toxicity from different situations: one of them knowing he was underperfoming but got trashed (may I say it wasn't all one sided also), and the other one apparently wasn't the best but wasn't nearly as bad as made it out to be, also with some attitude issues but not as much. Both dealt with toxicity upon a performance disagreement.

That's when I will take my stance on the issue along with ElinUsagi (yeah, I agree with him/her a lot and no, it's not cause fellow Elin fan). I do think the best way possible to deal with this, is indeed, calling it out and teaching it as politely as you can without being forced, instead of just letting go.

During the fight, things never go as cutely as a chat after fight/before it, we're all concentrating on the correct moves and smashing the right keys at the right moment, even on the crappiest dungeons. So it's no wonder that you'll not be able to just go and calmly say the best thing.
Whoever I think it's also important to call out the wrong decisions during the fight, in case it's something you can only know during such fight specially, like mechanics. Say, the underperforming player is hitting the wrong monster (like monkeys on RG 1st boss), call out what to do. Yes, it will be a shorter "Not these one (character's name)" "These ones" or such. It's nothing special, and can still teach a very valuable information.

After the fight, you'll have more time to give out the more complete version of the stuff. If you do just say it politely and all, only the worst kind of trash will reply harshly, and those, honestly, aren't welcome to begin with so no issues if we just shoo them away. We don't need to bear the old cancer, no way we would need to bear the new cancer. It's never welcome.
The cancer ones tho, I would at least bet that are a minority. People that would directly trash you for teaching I mean. If you do start with trashing the noob, it's no wonder if you get all your mud thrown back at you, but then "oh look at this, I tried to teach this idiot and he was cancerous!! I just told him he's completely useless and should die, why he's being cancer! Report now!!". Yeah it does go like this, seen it a lot.

May I also add that well, I have also met crybabies. People that said they were new, I was all fine and dandy, tried to help and all. Was lead during chat and said to him (tank) straight out that if he was doing anything wrong I would call it on raid notice so he sees easily and all. So I did, tried to teach him about the mechanics, he was dying a lot, kept making the exact same error I told him about (never was I even mad at that, my notes were close to monotone if I may say), and then at one moment he snapped, probably triggered by his own frustration of not managing it and threw a crybaby fit of how he's trying his hardest and all. God I don't even know how I had patience even after/during that fit, tho well I'm human so at one point I got fed up of it too.


Shortly: I believe it's always better to just teach them before they do meet the cancerous ones. They'll not suddenly learn without any clue. It may not work, but it's always worth a shot. Rarely they'll give you trash, if they do, well report and kick is there for a reason. Do not expect someone to be happy after getting trashed tho, and some may react to their own failures differently than others.
Thanks people who are taking the time to read and give their 2 cents on this. I thought it is only fair to add that my intention with making this is actually to indirectly address the forum environment and those who seem to always side against elitism, and the effects it has on not being able to address the issue of bad performance at all. Some people seem to advocate for a FFXIV type system that bans people for telling others how to play so I thought this should be discussed.
First off to the OP, I must say well done for being so mature about the situation and not being like most and just be nasty to him.

Though I'm curious as to how you know so much about your damage and that of others in party without the use of a DPS meter?
Nothing against people using DPS meters, for personal use I can see it being a very beneficial tool though not something I'd ever use myself.
But if I see anyone in party referring to it in even the slightest negative way that makes someone else feel bad I will snapshot and report them for harrassment.

That aside I can only speak for myself on this, everyone got a different way of handling things.
If someone says to me at end of a dungeon, hey Name (meaning me), are you new to that class or still learning it?
I'd say well its been a long time since I played it as it's not my main, why you ask?

Now as long as they are polite and very constructive and explain in great detail why I should use that rotation, then I'm all ears and eager to learn, I know I'll never be the best but always want to try do my best.

But just saying do this and do that means jack sh*t to me, I want to know why? what benefits it gives? whats so special about that rotation? is it good for a player with totally basic gear? or is it meant for the whales to use?

I read essentialmana a lot, but most of it I totally ignore because I think, you have the end game gear, so of course those are going to work for you, what about those who have no money, no matts, no enhancements, wheres your guide for them?

A simple thing until you got enough money, enough matts, to enhance gear enough so you can go kill enough bams to get the tokens to get the new glyphs to reduce their costs, no way do you have enough glyph points to maximise your skills potential.

So straight off the guides are useless for lower players in that respect, they expect you to already be enhanced and have all the new lower cost glyphs.

And thats why I want to know everything in very great detail.

A 2nd point which I think is often overlooked especially by those in the elitest range.
I often hear most of you say and I quote:
"go learn the mechanics you f**king piece of sh*t noob"
"Go read a f**king guide on forum"

How about you make a new toon, don't do any enhancements, stay exactly as you would be as you hit level 65, and all of you do a party and record a video tutorial as basic players, with basic glyph setups, basic crystals, no 65 crystals as most new players not played enough to go get them, so stay on 55's.

If you are as good as you make yourself out to be, you should be able to kick a$$ even with the absolute basics, then write up a guide to the video, explaining best way to play like that and how to earn enough money to enhance, what to enhance first, to what stage before next piece of equipment.

Always remember, you've already learnt all that, a new player hasn't.

I learn by my own mistakes, I record the dungeons I go in, so I can watch them back and see when and where I'm making the mistakes with my own playing style, as if I watch someone else playing it doesn't help me at all, as most times I wouldn't be in the positions they would be in, about only thing it would help with is the attacks bosses do and at roughly what level they do them.

But having a write-up guide with the vid would help a lot more.

To end on this last note, as it's a good analogy in a way.

I'm quite an advanced computer user. windows, dos, macs, linux, terminals, bit of pascal programming, boot sector analyst, virus/trojan remover etc etc.
People always ask me what books I read and how I learn what I know?

I always reply, I read every book that says idiots guide to or dummies guide to, because they are wrote in a way thats expecting you to know nothing, and the better you get at something the more bad habbits you get into, so reading them helps you correct those bad habbits and keep the foundation you built your knowledge on far stronger.

Most people use microsoft windows, so you say click it, obviously you mean left click, to a mac user that could be totally wrong, thats a bad habbit as you presume and don't explain correctly.

And yes I am as guilty as most for that, currently teaching people how to use computers at moment as part of some voluntary training, and it's hard when you're dealing with someone who knows nothing, it can be frustrating as hell, but its more so to them as they feel useless already but most times won't admit it, so moment you make them feel like they think the walls go up and anything you could of taught them is lost.

BE A GOOD TEACHER NOT A BAD DICTATOR

Passes soapbox to next poster.

Anyway folks, Happy playing, noobs and elitests alike :)
There isn't really much you can do apart from giving constructive advice, but even that can be met with the "You don't pay my sub noob elitist [filtered] stfu" response.

The problem is, bad people will always be bad as they don't care about getting better. You can literally throw guides and videos in their face and the baddies will pay 0 attention to it and ignore them completely because they want to play their way. You can't force people to get good, even if you do give advice to someone and they thank you for it...what are the chances that they'll remember/act on it.

When people want to get good and stop being bad, they'll go looking themselves for guides or asking questions on how to improve...all we can true do is put up with them and attempt to steer them into the right direction and punish (IE: Kick from dungeon) those who are failing to do their job or follow basic dungeon mechanics
TERA PC - General Discussion#12 papy10k01/12/2018, 02:43 AM
deal with it
TERA PC - General Discussion#13 cvms301/12/2018, 03:12 AM
I sometimes run IMS with guildies, but usually I have a full party within my groups. I don't bother teaching unless I am teaching a guildie in which case they can listen along if they wish. It's usually a waste of effort for my case specifically as I can do much more with my time. If a person wants to get better, they will find a way. Not really a fan of teaching people for the sake of teaching, rather I'll teach or help if there is a genuine desire. If they have to be babied along, they won't play this for long anyways.
TERA PC - General Discussion#14 Ardire01/12/2018, 04:16 AM
the one thing that confuses me here is that you didn't say anything so how did the lancer know you were trying to actively tank and not just aggressively stealing aggro with your dps? heck if the lancer was that new they might've not even known it was possible for warriors to tank

other than that, idk. your questions aren't easily answered. majority of folk play this game like it's a solo rpg so when you try to tell them what to do or give advice they absolutely lose it. but then again you might get lucky and meet someone level-headed who genuinely wants to be a contributing member to their party and will really appreciate your advice.

i'd say take the risk, what's the worst that can happen? they start bad mouthing you and calling you toxic when your intention was just to help? nothing to lose sleep over. it's a personal choice though, it's not up to other folk to educate people (regardless of how entitled some newbies may feel), it's a thing that should be done out of kindness not obligation.
Pixelator wrote: »
>Queues into Instance Matching knowing it's a bastion of low skilled players
>Encounters low skilled players
>Complain about said low skilled players on the forums.

???

That's so not the point the OP was making.

Here's a rundown, at least as I understood it ( @Satchin , please correct me if I'm wrong here): "Hey, I came across a 'suboptimal' party member. Here's what happened and here's how I handled the situation. Do you guys think it was the right solution?"

More in line with the aforementioned breakdown, I'm kinda with @counterpoint in that there's no inherent harm in saying something; contrary to popular belief, it is possible to criticize someone and/or their actions and not be a complete d**khole about it. And as was mentioned before, if they're receptive to however you voice said criticisms (within reason, of course), awesome. If not, just go the eff about your business and let them wallow in their ignorance.
TERA PC - General Discussion#16 Ves197801/12/2018, 06:08 AM
if you're in a good mood try to explain to underperforming player what they're doing wrong. if you're in a bad mood, react as you did in this run, don't bother explaining, but don't be a [filtered] as well.
TERA PC - General Discussion#17 Tearsong01/12/2018, 06:52 AM
Generally I ask the player nicely. Normally you get pretty good responses from new players if you are polite. If they respond poorly or are unresponsive, I just proceed with the run as usual, if we wipe and legit can't get through the dungeon with them (healer/tank) then I kick them.

For example, in your situation, I would try to identify the most pressing issue that they are doing wrong - in this case, I'd say not holding aggro (buffs are good but one thing at a time). Then I would've stopped after the first boss and said something like: "<insert name here>, Lancers are generally tanks in Tera, so their primary role is to hold the aggro of the boss. I noticed that in the last boss fight the aggro switched around a lot, if you're having trouble holding aggro, Threatening crystals are a good way to go. But since we're already in a run, would you mind not using your yell skills and letting me tank the next boss?"

When I was a new player I didn't know what I was doing. This was 4 years ago. I was playing Mystic so it was my fault my party was dying. However, nobody told me anything, the only thing I got was: "omg trap healer" and then kicked from party. I would have appreciated it very much if somebody had *told* me that I needed crystals in this game. Not just calling me a trap and then dropping me from party. I left the game for 2 years after that... The fact that I have remembered it for so long shows how hurtful it was, and nobody should be treated that way.

After I came back to Tera playing Mystic again, in a Channelworks run after the 2nd boss died, a gunner asked: "do you have the endurance debuff glyph?". I asked them what that was, they patiently told me that it was the glyph on my volley skill and that I should try to keep it up at all times. I got that glyph and did fine in the last boss. I really appreciated this player's kindness and patience, just telling me what I'm doing wrong, something! Anything! I can't improve if I don't know what I did wrong!

About a week ago I ran into a learning Mystic in KD. I tried to teach them the mechanics. I told them the key things before every boss. We did fine till the last boss. We wiped about 3 times, but finally got through it. The very next IM > matched the same mystic again. This time the party wasn't as good, and it was clear that there was no way we'd be able to clear the dungeon without the healer. The mystic was still making the same mistakes as they did last run, and dying to them. After wiping about 5 times we finally kicked them. No one has infinite time to play the game, it is fair enough to kick them after at least giving them a fair go and chances to practice.

I was picked up by a party for RKNM on Christmast day, I was playing Mystic and died up to 20 times on the 2nd boss, wiped about 5 times. One of the players was trying to teach me the mechanics, by telling me to stand where they were, to the side of the boss and on the hexagons. I learnt a lot from that run, although I couldn't finish. After an hour or two they told me: "thanks for the run but I think we will find another healer now, I'm sure you'll learn it eventually." I thanked them for putting up with me and left the party, I still occasionally party with one of the people there these days. I am very grateful for them putting up with me and teaching me, even if they had to kick me in the end.

Two days ago I ran into a learning Priest in RKNM. Kept dying on the 2nd boss, we wiped at least 10 times... I also tried to teach them, telling them to stand on the hexagons, to the side of the boss... they replied with "I know I know I know", sounding very impatient, so I shut up and we continued to wipe. Eventually they dropped the party themselves because they got fed up with it. After that we passed the run with no issues...

Oh... I got a bit carried away with this post, just scattered thoughts and stories of what I've seen in TERA. I am a duo player with no guild, so it's hard, and I interact with randoms a lot. I appreciate every bit of kindness that falls my way and I try my best to pass that onto other players. I'm sure lots of new and learning players would also appreciate it. I love TERA, it is a great game, I dislike the community a majority of the time though, because of how rude and mean people are. We need more players in TERA to keep it going, it is, after all, a MMO. Lets try not to drive all of the new players away...
AnnieClark wrote: »
First off to the OP, I must say well done for being so mature about the situation and not being like most and just be nasty to him.

Though I'm curious as to how you know so much about your damage and that of others in party without the use of a DPS meter?
Nothing against people using DPS meters, for personal use I can see it being a very beneficial tool though not something I'd ever use myself.
But if I see anyone in party referring to it in even the slightest negative way that makes someone else feel bad I will snapshot and report them for harrassment.

Wow thanks for proving my paranoia. You're the reason I started kicking people from rk9 IMS without saying anything to them.
People should know when their dps is really bad, but later on. Because it matters.
Like you said, I don't see the point at screaming angrily at players who don't have the basic gear/glyphs. I do see a point in saying that a +2 stormcry archer in all the right setups is doing 400 k/s on rk9 (or just say it in the sense of "sorry archer but your dps isn't cutting it).
Also, there are ways of telling when a person is doing bad dps. Running around the boss aimlessly, having long stops between their rotations, attacking from the sides (ooooh I see this one in rk9 so often because it's real hard to dash away during s-bomb), using basic attacks or generally skills that aren't supposed to be used in an optimal rotation (sorcs and archers using basics, brawlers using meat grinder). All of those are very apparent to me as a healer.
And unfortunately, you can't suddenly teach a person how to play their class on the last boss of a harder dungeon. So what the hell do I tell them before kicking them that doesn't warrant me a ban? :shrug:
TERA PC - General Discussion#19 Satchin01/12/2018, 10:11 AM
I pretty much agree with @CornishRex. I would offer to teach just about any class to at least a minimal standard. It's just that nobody asks and people rarely listen. I even had a few who lie to me out of defensiveness, which is funny because it's not easy to make up details about classes to someone who knows how to play that class. Examples, warrior tank told me he followed a guide but didn't use charging slash or poison blade and a ninja told me jagged path extra damage glyph lasted for 10 seconds when justifying their rotation, it's 3.

On top of that, the witch hunting for 3rd party program users is pretty funny.


I only make this post after making good attempts at helping people learn, from working with low skilled guilds to giving away free battle solutions and innerwear to low level players to trying to train people up to standard.

I don't see many people take the time to do this sort of thing, it's smarter to just stick with a guild and make your own network or vet on LFG instead of dealing with low skilled players in the first place. It isn't an issue unless we fear a divide between new players and veterans effecting the community. New players should be the lifeblood of any game. Veterans should be out there teaching new players but the fear or being labeled toxic and having to deal with hard headed new players isn't really worth the headache most of the time.
That dungeon needs to be reworked, the machines count too much on all party knowing what to do. This is a lower dungeon and does not need to be that difficult. I suggest they bring back Channel works until ravenous gouge is finally ready to be released.
TheDarkWan wrote: »
That dungeon needs to be reworked, the machines count too much on all party knowing what to do. This is a lower dungeon and does not need to be that difficult. I suggest they bring back Channel works until ravenous gouge is finally ready to be released.

God forbid new players have to use some brain. Because looking at the buff flowers give you when you break them is hard. Because seeing secondary aggro on yourself during second boss is hard. Following what the text on screen says is VERY hard.
For the love of anything that's sacred PLEASE don't bring back channelworks. RG is fine as is, not only does it teach you some basics about mechanics, it's also completely possible to be soloed by a more skilled players that's carrying the party. And even if you screw up in rg it's not like you will wipe or take forever to clear, it's a cute dungeon for new players.
Unlike channelworks. Seriously [filtered] that boring gray [filtered] dungeon I've had enough of it.
AnnieClark wrote: »
How about you make a new toon, don't do any enhancements, stay exactly as you would be as you hit level 65, and all of you do a party and record a video tutorial as basic players, with basic glyph setups, basic crystals, no 65 crystals as most new players not played enough to go get them, so stay on 55's.

This one threw me off and i felt the urge to add a reply.

The issue is not the fact that most of the fresh players do not have the basic things and they do not perfom enough with us "the elitist jerks with stormcry expecting too much" but entirely because they do not have any basic thing at all. And what this means? Exactly what it says.. most of the fresh players do not even bother to back crit bosses in RG/KC that are ever so easy to back crit while at the same time they also do not even have proper crystals equipped ( bitter/savage/focused/etc ) whether they are cruxes or not. On top of that, they rarely use nostrum at RG at least since KC will not open the door if the players do not have it and they also do not use bravery though its super easy to get both nostrum/bravery. At this point, i am not even going to talk about cheap glyphs or etchings from IOD because this is already hopeless from this point.. but we keep trying and ask players to get helped since nothing will change if we do not do that.

And in my opinion.. it does not matter what kind of language we use or what kind of words because most of the fresh players feel somehow like they are thrown out of their comfort zone suddenly having to do this and that instead of sitting back and relax regardless of their performance.. which most likely leads to the harsh replies from them.


So how to teach the fresh players about the ropes of this game when this happens? Ask EME kindly to deliver a pack of goodies at level 65 made of x100 nostrum, x10 bravery, x4 offensive/defensive crystals proper for the class, x5 goddess? etc? And hope that the players will actually use them?




By the way.. maybe the elitist jerks are being seen as a crows chopping on the poor fresh players at 2 star dungeons but the funny thing is that the fresh players would actually wipe both at KC/RG considering their own performance and the mechanics of the dungeons if the elitist jerks would not queue for the vanguard dailies.
TERA PC - General Discussion#23 aeee9801/12/2018, 01:24 PM
The biggest problem about low performing players, is the bulk majority of them don't even know they are low performing. And it gets annoying. I grew up from being an actual scrub so I know how it felt to be mistreated and misinformed as a newbie, and I have played the game long enough and done enough end-game content despite having multiple hiatuses to explain what I said.

Even if DPS meters are legalised, newbies will not believe their damage is very low. Most people complained that "it must be the gear" when the truth is their rotations were really bad to begin with. It is not okay to leave them at that. Regardless, newbies have different mindsets. Some want to improve, some want to be status quo, and they think they are good enough. This remains true even amongst veterans, let's be honest even some of the old players are performing worse dps-wise and mentality-wise compared to some of the newer players.

The "status quo" people are really the ones that make veterans give up on teaching newbies the entire time. It is tiring to teach people when they think they are right when they are far from the truth. Even if a person is willing, said player may not have the aptitude (poor reaction time, nerve issues, horrible lag) for it. If veterans can't even get these players to a standing where it is at least acceptable to the majority of players, how are you expecting them to breed new end-game players?

Also note that not everyone has the patience to sugarcoat things. If I tell someone to teach their unskilled guildie how to play their class, I mean it usually. Not many will be nice and go "yo you need to get better" and stuff when they do less damage than a non-dps-spec mystic, because as much as the truth hurts, the painful way is always the fastest way to realise your shortfalls. It is not about doing homework for dungeons and stuff, that is not as important as knowing your identity as a player and the damage you are expected to output. I used to sugarcoat stuff but I don't anymore, because there is no point to it.
TERA PC - General Discussion#24 ElinLove01/12/2018, 02:28 PM
I really would like to emphasize a point that was brought upon here: Many don't know they're underperforming at all.

Take the leveling experience. You see something that moves, you hit it, if it gives you a damage counter, keep hitting till it dies. Congrats! You've gotten EXPERIENCE POINTS. It's funny how it's even called that. Now if you check it out, the game has quite the exponential learning curve. You come from... well what I just said, about hitting aimlessly anything with just the random junk you had and you're doing good cause oh my god avatar weapons!! And... Then you drop into a world of checking where to hit the boss, when, when to stop, where to stand, when to stand where, when to avoid or else you're dead in one hit, what to never hit and what to hit as fast as possible, and what is even the best way to kill faster.

Think of the importance of rotations in leveling.
I'll tell ya bluntly: 0. Nothing. Nada. Nanimo. Ei Mitään. It's entirely insignificant if you're just auto-attacking or you're making the "by the manual" optimized rotation to your class. You may get into a party on a dungeon with no tank, where everyone is running madly around the boss, healer keeps people alive cause how hard is it to die on leveling dungeons, and you're doing the top tier rotation at the back of the boss, while that one OP class of the patch auto-attacks and does the SAME DPS as you, cause... hohohooo 3 levels of difference and Avatar weapon. It all just really nullifies the importance of any learning.

Now, you drop directly into that world of knowing what to do. "But hey, come on I've always done this and everyone was happy on the party!!" And sure he's right. It's been like this on leveling, but well, now the auto-attacking and not avoiding hits are literally only a tad better than AFKing. The healers DPSing are crap, the tankers don't just aimlessly hit whatever whenever and don't bother with avoiding cause the shield/block was doing fine. How will a new player ever know he's not doing well?
He just did what he always did and was good. Now he's suddenly dying all the time. What is his conclusion? Gotta stop dying. I'm doing DPS but I'm dying, that's what I should fix. Well, newbie learns avoiding hits. He stops dying. But yeah he's as good as a Thrall there. On his own mind, he's doing fine, he's doing DPS and not dying! What else is there to do? Then... yeah he's sucking and gets trashed. That's why I can't really get mad at side hitters and such that do terrible DPS. It's only normal. Never were they told what's their DPS and what even is a good DPS. They hit, things die, that should be fine right?

This is why, I do think that players should indeed get taught about those stuff. Simply because there would otherwise be no way for them to ever know it's bad/wrong if they're not dying. They will be expected to do some level of performance, and I'm sure not against expecting this (specially because in some cases it's downright impossible to clear a dungeon without meeting some DPS goals on shields and such), but they should have some base to even know they're underperforming and what should they even do to stop underperforming.

"but you get X crystals from quests! There's no excuse to not use them" yeah.... But then go and read the Pounding ones. They do flat damage increase for ANY monster. How come can that be a bad crystal? Flat damage to anything! Going for full power instead of crits too, how would any new guy ever figure out the crit/power balances and to just NOT use pounding ones despite looking so convenient? When is the boss enraged and how is a crystal that works only during enrage phase better than another one that is constant effect? What is better, having crit power or power always? Crit power looks better but only works during crits... Too many things for newcomers to figure out, and too many things MAY be outdated in guides too. But then back at the point: when would they ever figure out, that they do need to read any such guide? Even with in-game DPS meters (which I kinda agree), what is a good DPS for the class and gear set? Why same gear sets are making less damage?


TL;DR: the game is filled with an insane amount of variables that no newcomer would ever know, and they would never know they're not doing well if they're not told so. Expecting good performance is fine/required, but they should have a way to even know how to reach those goals or that they need to reach them.
TERA PC - General Discussion#25 Laemie01/12/2018, 03:34 PM
Maybe they can put in some short-useful lines between on the loading screens if theyre able to :/ Like:

"Attacking from behind is optimal for damage dealers"
"Using backcrit crystals is optimal for damage dealers"
"Threatening red crystal is useful for tanks"
"Hardy blue crystal is the best for defense"
"Always read the message on your screen inside dungeons"
"Blue aggro means something special, watch out for that"
"Some attacks cant be dodged (Iframed) or blocked"
"Dodging skills usually give iframe that makes you invulnerable for a second"

Etc etc etc... That sure helps better than the ones we're currently have..
TERA PC - General Discussion#26 Meshak01/13/2018, 03:52 AM
What if there was an independent list for each player, not shown to the party, at the end of each dungeon that showed your dps and an average dps of others of your class and your gear score? It could have a list of your most used skills and how much damage they did.

Then it could have a link to essential manna for tips.

Its not like En Masse doesn't know about these, kritika does it.

This would mean essential manna has to be updated though...
Meshak wrote: »
What if there was an independent list for each player, not shown to the party, at the end of each dungeon that showed your dps and an average dps of others of your class and your gear score? It could have a list of your most used skills and how much damage they did.

Yes, this sort of "personal performance indicator" (with some sort of barometer to measure against) is the best compromise I've heard proposed in multiple MMOs trying to find the right balance for this topic. Most people do generally want to know how they're doing, but they'd feel more comfortable having a system tell them that privately (and give them an average to compare against) than to be shamed by other members of the party. With this sort of system, you could also calibrate it to the encounter over time by leveraging "big data," so that it would take into consideration mechanics that might impact your "score."

Now the only thing is to convince TPTB to program this sort of feature. I believe BHS did actually allude at one point that they were considering adding something, though. We'll see.
Laemie wrote: »
Maybe they can put in some short-useful lines on the loading screens if theyre able to :/ Like:

"Attacking from behind is optimal for damage dealers"
"Using backcrit crystals is optimal for damage dealers"
"Threatening red crystal is useful for tanks"
"Hardy blue crystal is the best for defense"
"Always read the message on your screen inside dungeons"
"Blue aggro means something special, watch out for that"
"Some attacks cant be dodged (Iframed) or blocked"
"Dodging skills usually give iframe that makes you invulnerable for a second"

Etc etc etc... That sure helps better than the ones we're currently have..

This one is a great idea actually because at least in my early days of Tera i always used to read the tips from the loading screens.
Laemie wrote: »
Maybe they can put in some short-useful lines on the loading screens if theyre able to :/ Like:

"Attacking from behind is optimal for damage dealers"
"Using backcrit crystals is optimal for damage dealers"
"Threatening red crystal is useful for tanks"
"Hardy blue crystal is the best for defense"
"Always read the message on your screen inside dungeons"
"Blue aggro means something special, watch out for that"
"Some attacks cant be dodged (Iframed) or blocked"
"Dodging skills usually give iframe that makes you invulnerable for a second"

Etc etc etc... That sure helps better than the ones we're currently have..

When you log in, there's a popup that tells you what crystals to use and what skills to use based on your class, maybe you can add those lines there as well. I love the idea of putting sentences like this on the loading screen though. Bombard players w/ these tips on the loading screen until 65 or if they're entering a dungeon.
TERA PC - General Discussion#30 papy10k01/13/2018, 09:14 PM
ezpc, we need ingame dps meter
TERA PC - General Discussion#31 Gelos01/13/2018, 09:56 PM
ElinLove wrote: »
I really would like to emphasize a point that was brought upon here: Many don't know they're underperforming at all.

Take the leveling experience. You see something that moves, you hit it, if it gives you a damage counter, keep hitting till it dies. Congrats! You've gotten EXPERIENCE POINTS. It's funny how it's even called that. Now if you check it out, the game has quite the exponential learning curve. You come from... well what I just said, about hitting aimlessly anything with just the random junk you had and you're doing good cause oh my god avatar weapons!! And... Then you drop into a world of checking where to hit the boss, when, when to stop, where to stand, when to stand where, when to avoid or else you're dead in one hit, what to never hit and what to hit as fast as possible, and what is even the best way to kill faster.

Think of the importance of rotations in leveling.
I'll tell ya bluntly: 0. Nothing. Nada. Nanimo. Ei Mitään. It's entirely insignificant if you're just auto-attacking or you're making the "by the manual" optimized rotation to your class. You may get into a party on a dungeon with no tank, where everyone is running madly around the boss, healer keeps people alive cause how hard is it to die on leveling dungeons, and you're doing the top tier rotation at the back of the boss, while that one OP class of the patch auto-attacks and does the SAME DPS as you, cause... hohohooo 3 levels of difference and Avatar weapon. It all just really nullifies the importance of any learning.

Now, you drop directly into that world of knowing what to do. "But hey, come on I've always done this and everyone was happy on the party!!" And sure he's right. It's been like this on leveling, but well, now the auto-attacking and not avoiding hits are literally only a tad better than AFKing. The healers DPSing are crap, the tankers don't just aimlessly hit whatever whenever and don't bother with avoiding cause the shield/block was doing fine. How will a new player ever know he's not doing well?
He just did what he always did and was good. Now he's suddenly dying all the time. What is his conclusion? Gotta stop dying. I'm doing DPS but I'm dying, that's what I should fix. Well, newbie learns avoiding hits. He stops dying. But yeah he's as good as a Thrall there. On his own mind, he's doing fine, he's doing DPS and not dying! What else is there to do? Then... yeah he's sucking and gets trashed. That's why I can't really get mad at side hitters and such that do terrible DPS. It's only normal. Never were they told what's their DPS and what even is a good DPS. They hit, things die, that should be fine right?

This is why, I do think that players should indeed get taught about those stuff. Simply because there would otherwise be no way for them to ever know it's bad/wrong if they're not dying. They will be expected to do some level of performance, and I'm sure not against expecting this (specially because in some cases it's downright impossible to clear a dungeon without meeting some DPS goals on shields and such), but they should have some base to even know they're underperforming and what should they even do to stop underperforming.

"but you get X crystals from quests! There's no excuse to not use them" yeah.... But then go and read the Pounding ones. They do flat damage increase for ANY monster. How come can that be a bad crystal? Flat damage to anything! Going for full power instead of crits too, how would any new guy ever figure out the crit/power balances and to just NOT use pounding ones despite looking so convenient? When is the boss enraged and how is a crystal that works only during enrage phase better than another one that is constant effect? What is better, having crit power or power always? Crit power looks better but only works during crits... Too many things for newcomers to figure out, and too many things MAY be outdated in guides too. But then back at the point: when would they ever figure out, that they do need to read any such guide? Even with in-game DPS meters (which I kinda agree), what is a good DPS for the class and gear set? Why same gear sets are making less damage?


TL;DR: the game is filled with an insane amount of variables that no newcomer would ever know, and they would never know they're not doing well if they're not told so. Expecting good performance is fine/required, but they should have a way to even know how to reach those goals or that they need to reach them.

this is exactly how I play; It took my 3 years or better to figure out how to I could move around mobs( and i still forget) so i just do my little solo dungeons at 65 and grind mobs .I am a mouse clicker hitting buttons I dont usually think about. although lately i have been trying to remember to hit the skill buttons and not so much spacebar. I still havent figured out how to use my skill bar for a whole lot of stuff . So i do the very basic rotations(?)
Gelos wrote: »
ElinLove wrote: »
I really would like to emphasize a point that was brought upon here: Many don't know they're underperforming at all.

Take the leveling experience. You see something that moves, you hit it, if it gives you a damage counter, keep hitting till it dies. Congrats! You've gotten EXPERIENCE POINTS. It's funny how it's even called that. Now if you check it out, the game has quite the exponential learning curve. You come from... well what I just said, about hitting aimlessly anything with just the random junk you had and you're doing good cause oh my god avatar weapons!! And... Then you drop into a world of checking where to hit the boss, when, when to stop, where to stand, when to stand where, when to avoid or else you're dead in one hit, what to never hit and what to hit as fast as possible, and what is even the best way to kill faster.

Think of the importance of rotations in leveling.
I'll tell ya bluntly: 0. Nothing. Nada. Nanimo. Ei Mitään. It's entirely insignificant if you're just auto-attacking or you're making the "by the manual" optimized rotation to your class. You may get into a party on a dungeon with no tank, where everyone is running madly around the boss, healer keeps people alive cause how hard is it to die on leveling dungeons, and you're doing the top tier rotation at the back of the boss, while that one OP class of the patch auto-attacks and does the SAME DPS as you, cause... hohohooo 3 levels of difference and Avatar weapon. It all just really nullifies the importance of any learning.

Now, you drop directly into that world of knowing what to do. "But hey, come on I've always done this and everyone was happy on the party!!" And sure he's right. It's been like this on leveling, but well, now the auto-attacking and not avoiding hits are literally only a tad better than AFKing. The healers DPSing are crap, the tankers don't just aimlessly hit whatever whenever and don't bother with avoiding cause the shield/block was doing fine. How will a new player ever know he's not doing well?
He just did what he always did and was good. Now he's suddenly dying all the time. What is his conclusion? Gotta stop dying. I'm doing DPS but I'm dying, that's what I should fix. Well, newbie learns avoiding hits. He stops dying. But yeah he's as good as a Thrall there. On his own mind, he's doing fine, he's doing DPS and not dying! What else is there to do? Then... yeah he's sucking and gets trashed. That's why I can't really get mad at side hitters and such that do terrible DPS. It's only normal. Never were they told what's their DPS and what even is a good DPS. They hit, things die, that should be fine right?

This is why, I do think that players should indeed get taught about those stuff. Simply because there would otherwise be no way for them to ever know it's bad/wrong if they're not dying. They will be expected to do some level of performance, and I'm sure not against expecting this (specially because in some cases it's downright impossible to clear a dungeon without meeting some DPS goals on shields and such), but they should have some base to even know they're underperforming and what should they even do to stop underperforming.

"but you get X crystals from quests! There's no excuse to not use them" yeah.... But then go and read the Pounding ones. They do flat damage increase for ANY monster. How come can that be a bad crystal? Flat damage to anything! Going for full power instead of crits too, how would any new guy ever figure out the crit/power balances and to just NOT use pounding ones despite looking so convenient? When is the boss enraged and how is a crystal that works only during enrage phase better than another one that is constant effect? What is better, having crit power or power always? Crit power looks better but only works during crits... Too many things for newcomers to figure out, and too many things MAY be outdated in guides too. But then back at the point: when would they ever figure out, that they do need to read any such guide? Even with in-game DPS meters (which I kinda agree), what is a good DPS for the class and gear set? Why same gear sets are making less damage?


TL;DR: the game is filled with an insane amount of variables that no newcomer would ever know, and they would never know they're not doing well if they're not told so. Expecting good performance is fine/required, but they should have a way to even know how to reach those goals or that they need to reach them.

this is exactly how I play; It took my 3 years or better to figure out how to I could move around mobs( and i still forget) so i just do my little solo dungeons at 65 and grind mobs .I am a mouse clicker hitting buttons I dont usually think about. although lately i have been trying to remember to hit the skill buttons and not so much spacebar. I still havent figured out how to use my skill bar for a whole lot of stuff . So i do the very basic rotations(?)

Maybe you could get more comfortable playiing with a controler if keyboard and mouse gets to complicated.
TERA PC - General Discussion#33 Sateva01/14/2018, 04:18 AM
From my experience, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. >u<

Traps happen, push threw and shrug it off.
TERA PC - General Discussion#34 vkobe01/14/2018, 04:24 AM
Satchin wrote: »
So here's the situation that I have come across. We'll use it as an example, an arch type if you will rather than to hate on some individual.

Just for context, I was running RG on a warrior, frostmetal +0 swords that I pushed up so I can grind out item exp for the rest of the armor more comfortably. It's a second warrior alt so I'm fairly familiar with the class. I had gotten an instance match, a valk and a lancer. So I swap to offense stance and build because, hey lancer. The way the first boss went, the lancer didn't use any buffs, can't hold aggro, didn't take care of any mechanics and did damage on par of a healer that's specifically trying to dps. It left me and the valk chasing the back of the boss, the valk wasn't very experienced as well but we got through it. My damage was basically cut in half in comparison to a working party. Again I'll say that damage comparisons are meant to provide context.

So I shrugged it off and swapped my build to defense stance. I had the crystals and glyphs already set up, but can't afford secondary sword rolls.

The lizard went better, my damage was about the same and the valk's damage shot up 4 times than last boss. The lancer however did the same, didn't read the situation, kept shouting to try to keep aggro, which is a problem in general as if it were someone else who had the correct sword rolls, would actually lower the dps of the person trying to tank, generally being useless or even detrimental. The rest of the dungeon run was like this and I didn't say anything to the lancer.

So to simplify, I met a worryingly bad lancer and compensated the best I could with what I got without bringing it up to the guy.

So the question I want to ask, was this the right thing to do?


We have to assume this Lancer isn't just running one dungeon. The lancer will come across many people. He will keep being a detriment to parties. Is it right not to mention poor performance, or is it right to not mention it and delay it so someone else who's less patient to lay into him? The tank role is an important position. I have to include that this person actively lowers other people's damage potential and generally doesn't contribute any meaningful damage himself. I figure to anyone who can identify him as an issue would become very annoyed.

The most reasonable, possibly usual scenario I could think of is the Lancer would have been kicked and replaced by literally anything else. Since it's RG, no problem for us. If it were KC or SF however, tanks aren't easy to find. It also just passes the Lancer along to some other party to deal with. Also it might give him the idea "they could've said something first" and think we were all toxic or something.

If I were to say anything, chances are the guy would shut down, give the usual responses, call me toxic and elitist, maybe come to the forums and tell you guys about the toxic players etc etc.


So I lay it to the forum. I see a lot of people on the side of anti toxicity, how do we solve these issues that wouldn't just ignore and spread the problem. I think we can't just think that the victim of tongue lashing is always some saint, defensiveness and unwillingness to change or learn is also very toxic and brings out the worst in others. So what can be done?

dont doe IMS or be better to crecruit players in your team ;)
I don't understand, if the dungeon is easy then you should carry if the dungeon needs all party members to know mechanics then the dungeon is not easy, again remove RG and bring back CW. Less headache more fun.
TheDarkWan wrote: »
I don't understand, if the dungeon is easy then you should carry if the dungeon needs all party members to know mechanics then the dungeon is not easy, again remove RG and bring back CW. Less headache more fun.

While it isn't as easy as CW, RG is still able to be classified as a low tier. Also unlike CW it actually tries to teach players some mechanics, the shield buff that needs to be removed by a healer at the start of each fight tries to show that there will be mechanics that you need to plague, among other mechanics in the dungeon. Just actually finding someone who both knows the same language as you and is actually willing to speak/listen is a rare sight in IMS. I used to actually put effort into helping people but the more people you meet who refuse to even acknowledge anything except what they're already doing just drains away any willpower to keep trying and you eventually just end up staying silent and carrying them, or becoming toxic and spewing out some nasty words.
TERA PC - General Discussion#37 Starkhoe01/15/2018, 08:24 AM
You can never know what kind of person is sitting on the other side of the screen. Therefore there's a fine line between constructive criticism, gloating over you're own performance, belittling someone, and between genuinely wanting to help them out. The best way to help someone, is not to come across as being condescending. Which is why if you do choose to give them advice, you should do so respectfully, without making it seems like you're "gods gift to Tera".

How? try to think of yourself, and how you would like to be treated if you were in their position. The key to helping someone, is attempting to understand where they come from. Which is why before you choose to say anything, you can start by inspecting them. Look for signs of something that indicates what might be the possible cause to their low performance. This can range to anything from wrong crystals, wrong rolls, wrong etchings, what guild they are in (if any), and basically anything that shows you what you are dealing with. After you do that, you should have enough basic information to deduce a good direction for them to take (this is also something you can do at the beginning of the dungeon itself). Then you can approach them politely, and explain to them calmly that you wish to give them some pointers. Because if you just say "git gud omg use double pounding" or something like that, without providing an explanation, then you are probably just pissing them off. You always need to remember that if you come off too strong about this subject, then some players might misinterpret you're intentions to help them. How you come across will determine if they will want to listen to you (emphasis on the word "want").

I`m not saying there is not a limit to this, some people are willfully dense, and some players are just plain, well.. stupid. It happens. These are things which are not in you're control, and you can`t force someone to listen to you. All you can ever do, is try. If you ask me, the best way to go about this, is to indulge in a brief and friendly conversation before you start playing. Even something as simple as starting off the dungeon with a few jokes and showing others that you are friendly, can set the tone for the entire thing. This is good because it can open the lines of communication between everyone, and you might be able to see what kind of people you are playing with. Just my two cents. I hope this helped someone.
TERA PC - General Discussion#38 ElinLove01/15/2018, 02:35 PM
TheDarkWan wrote: »
I don't understand, if the dungeon is easy then you should carry if the dungeon needs all party members to know mechanics then the dungeon is not easy, again remove RG and bring back CW. Less headache more fun.

This is frankly a problem: you just carry people up until the point where they should have known what to do way before, but obviously they don't cause you silently carried them. Like I said on my previous wall of text: It's not that easy, or actually downright impossible for a new player, to know if you're underperforming or not if you're not dying. Yes, meters, whatever. They're sometimes a hassle to install, downright not allowed by ToS (so 2 points against it for new guys), and with just comparing yourself to possibly other players who suck, what do you achieve? Or when you compare yourself to that god tier +9 Stormcry geared dude, what's your conclusion? "WOOO I WANT THAT GEAR!! LOOK AT THAT DUDE'S DAMAGE!" while the percentages aren't nearly close to what gear alone would do.
This all brings again to the 2nd point of your comment: "if the dungeon needs all party members to know mechanics then the dungeon is not easy".... well... yyeah? Then when they fall into the not easy dungeons, they're just gonna be fresh meat for the bosses and floor warmers (or are TERA character corpses cold?). They'll be expected of what they never knew they needed to do.

Agreed, that showing people that they ARE underperforming and how to fix it can be difficult to do without being toxic or without the whiny crybabies bursting into tears and toxicity fits. That's part of dealing with humans after all, and even if they're behind a monitor they're still not bots (hopefully, if they are, hit up that report on support tickets).
TERA PC - General Discussion#39 AxeI01/15/2018, 04:53 PM
Just create a closed guild with friends and save yourself the trouble. Sadly for IMS queue with the mentality that YOU have to carry.
TERA PC - General Discussion#40 aeee9801/16/2018, 10:12 AM
Actually it is not difficult.

I think it is time for pros to make low-tier gear and make video guides showing that it is possible for low-geared people to do the damage they do. The mentality of "gear is necessary" has to stop (especially when I see people with better gear than me underperforming massively).

If more people make videos like these and these people get more publicity (most Tera youtubers are well geared and most who are not aren't that good at the game to make guides), I think we can reduce the number of helpless people. Of course, low-performing members will always exist in every single game out there. But helping newbies get out of the newbie zone will automatically increase the number of skilled players and also reduce the amount of low-performing members.

Something i like to ad is i still see people from time to time with old gear, like Guile and Misery.
I try to explain they need to get the new gear in Highwatch (red questline) but i mostly get no response back, im surprised that you still can que dungeons at all with old gear that sould not be possible anymore
TERA PC - General Discussion#42 Gelos01/16/2018, 12:55 PM
Babbelsim wrote: »
Something i like to ad is i still see people from time to time with old gear, like Guile and Misery.
I try to explain they need to get the new gear in Highwatch (red questline) but i mostly get no response back, im surprised that you still can que dungeons at all with old gear that sould not be possible anymore

heck when new gear came out I had my valk in misery and a couple of others ; didnt read thru correctly guess what i did yep started out in Guardian.
sometimes simple bullet explanations work better, sometimes long explanations are needful but at all times be nice. Even if it doesnt look like they listened they did just processing the info might take a bit. but directly to you Babbelsim they probable heard you and did as you suggested (hopefully).
Simple thing is to always tell them what they are doing weong. The difference is only in how toxic you are when you go about it. I'm playing a ninja with a mystic and an archer during RG event. Mystic knows what he's doing archer is lost. I carry the first boss and when we get to 2nd boss ninja tanking in back critical crystals. Archer doesn't know mech no crystal bind cruxs wrong skills makes the fight go through all the mechs. So with the boss at 25% life I as the archer if he knows the mechs. NADA nothing. Mystic gets an attitude when I start to explain mechs and what the archer should do. "You should shut up or you don't need my buffs and heals" LOL ok mystic this is my 5th or 6th at that I can actually play and know the mechs so RG yeah don't need you or buffs or aura. Plus I've got ninja I frame jitsu... starts last boss without me (doesn't even wait) archers oblivious and is already there. 15 mins into last boss mystic drops archers finally paying attention and asks where the healer went. Archer is burning through neo res's so I tell him to respond and I'll kill the boss, no need to recruit. I explain what mechs to avoid and I kill the boss right after 2nd egg.

THEN I explain the mechs for first 2nd and 3rd boss. Tell him where his gear is wrong, tell him the correct skills to use in what priority and where he should be almost all of a boss fight (the back).

Rng gods pity me I win the rolls on all the loot boxes. I ask what server archers on and log in there. Parcel him every no strum I had laying around along with CCB and replacement crystals for what he broke. Explain what they are for.

Make a friend on TR, noon but hey I was once also. Laugh at mystic to myself because archers not gonna understand.

You have to say something to new players or they will never get better and they will quit soon after because of the difficulty curb.
TERA PC - General Discussion#44 Gelos01/16/2018, 06:32 PM
Simple thing is to always tell them what they are doing weong. The difference is only in how toxic you are when you go about it. I'm playing a ninja with a mystic and an archer during RG event. Mystic knows what he's doing archer is lost. I carry the first boss and when we get to 2nd boss ninja tanking in back critical crystals. Archer doesn't know mech no crystal bind cruxs wrong skills makes the fight go through all the mechs. So with the boss at 25% life I as the archer if he knows the mechs. NADA nothing. Mystic gets an attitude when I start to explain mechs and what the archer should do. "You should shut up or you don't need my buffs and heals" LOL ok mystic this is my 5th or 6th at that I can actually play and know the mechs so RG yeah don't need you or buffs or aura. Plus I've got ninja I frame jitsu... starts last boss without me (doesn't even wait) archers oblivious and is already there. 15 mins into last boss mystic drops archers finally paying attention and asks where the healer went. Archer is burning through neo res's so I tell him to respond and I'll kill the boss, no need to recruit. I explain what mechs to avoid and I kill the boss right after 2nd egg.

THEN I explain the mechs for first 2nd and 3rd boss. Tell him where his gear is wrong, tell him the correct skills to use in what priority and where he should be almost all of a boss fight (the back).

Rng gods pity me I win the rolls on all the loot boxes. I ask what server archers on and log in there. Parcel him every no strum I had laying around along with CCB and replacement crystals for what he broke. Explain what they are for.

Make a friend on TR, noon but hey I was once also. Laugh at mystic to myself because archers not gonna understand.

You have to say something to new players or they will never get better and they will quit soon after because of the difficulty curb.

I agree with this as long as you explain it plainly and dont use those fancy acronyms for stuff on new players without spelling it out. I am not a new player but it took me a long time to "get" a bunch of abbreviations for stuff.
TERA PC - General Discussion#45 ElinLove01/16/2018, 06:57 PM
Gelos wrote: »
Simple thing is to always tell them what they are doing weong. The difference is only in how toxic you are when you go about it. I'm playing a ninja with a mystic and an archer during RG event. Mystic knows what he's doing archer is lost. I carry the first boss and when we get to 2nd boss ninja tanking in back critical crystals. Archer doesn't know mech no crystal bind cruxs wrong skills makes the fight go through all the mechs. So with the boss at 25% life I as the archer if he knows the mechs. NADA nothing. Mystic gets an attitude when I start to explain mechs and what the archer should do. "You should shut up or you don't need my buffs and heals" LOL ok mystic this is my 5th or 6th at that I can actually play and know the mechs so RG yeah don't need you or buffs or aura. Plus I've got ninja I frame jitsu... starts last boss without me (doesn't even wait) archers oblivious and is already there. 15 mins into last boss mystic drops archers finally paying attention and asks where the healer went. Archer is burning through neo res's so I tell him to respond and I'll kill the boss, no need to recruit. I explain what mechs to avoid and I kill the boss right after 2nd egg.

THEN I explain the mechs for first 2nd and 3rd boss. Tell him where his gear is wrong, tell him the correct skills to use in what priority and where he should be almost all of a boss fight (the back).

Rng gods pity me I win the rolls on all the loot boxes. I ask what server archers on and log in there. Parcel him every no strum I had laying around along with CCB and replacement crystals for what he broke. Explain what they are for.

Make a friend on TR, noon but hey I was once also. Laugh at mystic to myself because archers not gonna understand.

You have to say something to new players or they will never get better and they will quit soon after because of the difficulty curb.

I agree with this as long as you explain it plainly and dont use those fancy acronyms for stuff on new players without spelling it out. I am not a new player but it took me a long time to "get" a bunch of abbreviations for stuff.

Don't be shy to ask the acronyms too, that's also part of learning the game. I remember when CS was a thing (Corsair's Stronghold, in case that's also one unknown), 1st time I did it I just followed everyone around and asked what I didn't know like the acronyms and such, then later on I started to pick up on the strategies and such, and by my top shape I was quite the lead. Would rarely ever lose a defense round, and could like 60% of the time get a nice attack as well (come on, it's CS after all, ya all know how it goes!).

I know that every now and then there's some trash that just wants their oh-so-pros on their team (that may even suck but don't tell 'em that), but more often than not, someone will tell you the answer to some question. The quicker/simpler the higher chance of success too, as less patience is needed for it.
I remember quite some times new but eager guys came asking for the acronyms and such, they learned them on-the-fly and proceeded to help the team epically, and I mean epically, even if low levels and clear 1st timers (you can tell it if it's an experienced guy trolling saying he's a 1st timer).
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