TERA Online forum archive
TERA PC - General Discussion: TERA: Rise of The Fallen?
I honestly believe TERA is one of the best games out there, if handled correctly. TERA doesn't have a problem attracting new players, the problem is retaining them. Right now this doesn't feel like an mmorpg. The decisions Bluehole has made are very questionable. Ever since the original developers "left", this game has slowly been on the decline, losing touch with the players and core game mechanics.

Open world:
Open world needs to be more engaging. The world is so beautiful, make use of it. Hidden mechanics, secrets, puzzles, jumping puzzles etc, the sky is the limit. Having similar things like that would make the open world more engaging and enjoyable for the Explorers.

• World boss:
World bosses should be difficult requiring a lot of players. Dropping worth while loot or maybe a buff for whoever kills it (server/guild/alliance/raid whatever sees fit for it.)

• B.A.M:
Personal I enjoyed how they were in 2013, they were challenging and gave TONS of experience. Players would group just to defeat them. Also make B.A.Ms worth while at endgame levels, making them drop materials for crafting/enhancing gear.

• Gathering/Crafting:
This should be more valuable. Introduce new/old consumables. Example eclipse potions, higher hp/mp potions, increase gathering speed. Increase crit power, attack speed, power, movement speed, defense, increase flying speed potions, craft-able costumes etc. The only way to craft them is by gathering and maybe something extra depending on the items.

• Nexus:
As laggy as It was, nexus was enjoyable, it brought the community together and was rewarding at the end.

• New Endgame Area:
Major content change needs to happen, like introducing a new area. Right now Highwatch doesn’t feel like an endgame area at all. It need to be mysterious, dark, frightening and thrilling. The new area should be able to drop gold from mobs with PvP enabled, flying mounts disabled (High risk, high reward)


Player vs Player(PvP):
Man man man... where to begin. PvP is so underwhelming and definitely not rewarding. Bring back the PvP item shop, please. You should be able to gear up through PvP only.

• There should be 3 major PvP instances. Large, medium and low scale that’s it, anything more spreads out too thin. Maybe one mini game for the laughs.

• Make GvG more interesting
(Cross server GvG events would be very interesting. Just an idea)

• Bring back Alliance and PvP rankings/leader-boards.

Player vs Environment(PvE):
There should be PvE rankings/leader-boards on all dungeons. It provides a competitive environment for PvEers.

• There should be dungeons/raids where you have to fight multiple bosses at the same time. Also special types of enemy's they'll debuff/buffs certain things.

• An endless tower type dungeon where you fight bosses/mobs nonstop, being very rewarding at the end.

*GvG PvE style* :thinking:



Random:
• Newcomers/Alts:
You should be able to preview a class you’re interested in, showing different skills and how it works etc. Needs to be updated though.

• Tutorial:
There should be a tutorial explaining every stat in game and certain dungeon mechanics, making it easier for newer players.

• Avatar weapon:
This needs to be removed, it literally makes all weapons 64 below completely worthless.

• Optimization:
Optimization please! Also players should be able to disable almost anything in the UI

• Mounts:
Bring back Account Mounts. Seriously.

•Balancing:
Bluehole and Enmasse should hire former players for balancing. For example Hirez hired a bunch of players from the community for balancing and game design in Smite. It would be nice to see something like that here.

As you can see most of the suggestions are focused around bringing the community together. When there's a healthy community, more will come and stay. Playing a game should be fun no matter what you do. Exploring, PvP, PvE, gathering, crafting and socializing. Having different elements all can enjoy.
What is really true is how the same players come here to see threads like this, with constructive feedback and most of them don't keep these topics up ar at least +Like the thread, but instead they leave doing nothing.

It is really sad that if the thread doesn't have personal attacks against EME or other players the thread/post doesn't get significant +Like.
they keep milking the poor cow
TERA PC - General Discussion#4 FRSTY01/07/2018, 04:25 AM
Praying for big impactful changes, so that TERA can be what we all know it has the potential to be.

If only BHS could/would talk and listen to the TERA community this game could be such a beast. IMO it has the potential to be better than WoW.

+1 @H634KL3NAC
it is too late to fix this game, only the OG that loves the game play at this moments.
Some good suggestions here.
TERA PC - General Discussion#7 Anotsu01/07/2018, 09:22 AM
Very nice should definitely put some thought into this!
  • • More open world stuff would be nice....Events like bam hunts kinda do that but eh...Decent suggestion
  • • There's already World bosses that drop endgame loot so check on that. They're somewhat difficult but still soloable...as with most things, things are easily soloable (in the overworld) as long as you use your skills to dodge :)
  • • Uhhh Make Bams worth it at Endgame levels? IoD says hello to you...unless you don't want all those free talents, tokens etc.
  • • Seeing as Crafting has gone form entirely junk to Actually worthwhile now with crafting Darics/Gems/Plate etc. Would be kinda nice to have a few more things like the consumable pots you suggested...but that basically brings back the old things like Heavens elixir and stuff which got removed (Probably for consoldation or w/e. Not like New players will use these anyway seeing as half of them don't bother with Battle solutions unless Low tier dungeons are literally blocking the door while everyone else (Or a vast majority) will see it has Mandatory consumables depending on avaliablity)
  • • Seeing as The server could barely handle Dreamstorm....i highly doubt it will handle Nexus again....Though we do have those Guardian missions (Basically FFXIV Fates/GW2 open world events) coming this month (or should be acording to the roadmap) so we'll see how that goes
  • • Put a new coat of paint on highwatch and call it a day...we'll end up back at this point eventually anyway.

---
Ignoring PVP cause luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuul pvp in tera ecks dee xd

---
  • •They're bringing back Leaderboards in a feature patch for both PVE and PVP, I believe this came out before awakening patch did (if Ktera even has it yet) as it was listed in the Dev note for Guardian missions that they were working on it. Not sure if its in yet or not.
  • • Uhh Harrowhold Phase 1 has 4 dragon bosses at the same time...Demokron Factory had Vera/Prima together. It would be nice to see multi boss fights but then you run into the issue where if you need two tanks or not...and this game aint that great with Multiple tanks (I believe Vergos is strictly coded to change aggro on Shouts via tanks or something)
  • • Sooooooooo Endless Dreadspire? People like Dreadspire so just bring it back for us and people will call it Gucci (EU has Dreadspire uppers Extreme atm which is making some of the Hardcore NA players cry atm cause they want it)
  • • Uhh Youtube exists? I would think some videos would be pretty relevant still has classes don't really change much unless they get revamped like Archer/War/Sorc or until they get their Awakening. You can look up a kill video of their PoV if you want...and there is kinda a small player already on Character creator...but they'll never touch that with a 100 foot long pole
  • • Im pretty sure stats tell you what they do when you hover over them? Unless they removed it....then that's really stupid. The important stats (Power/Crit/Endurance) are kinda really self explanatory.
  • • For the dungeon mechanics, THERE A GIANT RED TEXT IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR SCREEN SAYING "X is doing this, You should totally pay attention" in normal mode....Within doubt there are guides...you gotta do something while sitting in that 30minute dps que
  • • With the levelling dungeon's increased stats to compensate avatar weapons, i REALLY don't want to experience GL with everyone using normal weapons....that is 30 minutes of my life i don't want to lose personally. Go ahead and set a challenge to not use them if you want...others want to get to the ACTUAL game asap
  • • We're beating a dead horse here with Optimization
  • • Sure whatever....Do what you want with the mounts
  • • Balancing will always be ruined for those outside of Ktera cause they have talents, we don't. Though they did make a test server for Awakening and made adjust to the new skills based on Players feedback and testing so....its something? EME don't even dare to touch how classes work or adjust them themselves cause Big deaddy BHS would be mad

Just an old s-poster's 2 cents
@Vinyltails I didn't go into full details on every point but I am aware of all the things in game. If I wrote long bulky paragraphs people wouldn't want to read it ... Thank you for your two cents!
TERA PC - General Discussion#10 jrtseven01/08/2018, 02:39 AM
OP's list is the perfect fixes for TERA.
TERA PC - General Discussion#11 Meshak01/08/2018, 04:35 AM
This wont help unless progression is figured out for casual players who don't have a guild or cant get into 3 and 4* dungeons with regularity. This game wont take on or keep casual or new players who will pay to play in order to log in for an hour or two and still progress. There's a reason wow has raid finder. The majority of gamers are not end game serious guild players. Instance matching cannot only be a reliable clear for 2* dungeons, LFG is unfortunately not always an option. (I'm aware you can im for anything, but anyone who's tried, even 3*'s are no guarantee with the current matching system).

This game seems to have made the conscious business decision to make its money on costumes and keeping its current 3 and 4* dungeon players happy. Its almost like they are content to try and continue to make money until the game closes rather than grow the game.
@Meshak Yes, casual players are a big part of any game. There should be tutorials(or dungeon simulators) within the game explaining basic game/dungeon mechanics among other things. Because eventually those players will transition into endgame content. Having more knowledge about your class position/role, stats, crystals, mechanics etc, will make things a lot smoother for causal/new players. Thus making endgame more lively.

Not much you can do about the pay to play people. Maybe require the player to do 'X' amount of said dungeon before doing harder ones (Don't take this too serious, just doing throwing something out).
Good feedback!
TERA PC - General Discussion#14 Meshak01/09/2018, 02:56 AM
Not all players transition to end game, its why raid finder is so popular. A lot of players don't have time for it. We want to see the end game, want to feel some sort of progression, but don't have the time to invest in guilds or specific raid times etc... It is a misconception that all players will eventually transition to end game.

The instance matching system should have a different level of dungeon from LFG and from regular queuing. Damage and hp should scale accordingly the mechanics do not need to change (how we learn). Reward *amount* should be what separates them, not reward type. For instance the 3 and 4* dungeons should all drop meaningful crafting or advancement loot. But, normal queue drops 2x amount, lfg 1x and ims .5x amount. Each one should hit a counter for the dungeon. No one can double or triple dip and really if the rewards are done right, no one should need to.

I think this would I think make the older established players happy (with rewards that matter at an amount given to each member of the party) and allow other players whos guilds don't really raid, or newer or casuals without a guild to advance.

This may just get more casual players or players of all classes (tanks and healers) comfortable with mechanics so when they do gear up they are comfortable to do lfg more, or even look for that guild since training runs are...
TERA PC - General Discussion#15 GardoVdl01/09/2018, 03:15 AM
They just need to bring back PvP. Not playing again until it comes back grinding 20+ a dungeon daily so i can blow away it all on rng enchantment is not my thing.
TERA PC - General Discussion#16 Meshak01/10/2018, 05:17 AM
I guess just the mega thread gets love =p
GardoVdl wrote: »
They just need to bring back PvP. Not playing again until it comes back grinding 20+ a dungeon daily so i can blow away it all on rng enchantment is not my thing.

This is basically the game now... run your daily's and try the enchantment lottery. A lot of things could be mitigated if players were able to trade all enchanting materials as more top-tier players could farm materials to earn profit while increasing activity of veteran and top-tier players. Simply, the economy is suffering because most items are untradable and the rng is sucking the profitability of this game dry. The only way to earn a steady income is to run IoD which is mind-numbing. In the golden days, almost all items were tradable... there's a reason why people often reflect on the previous state of the game.
TERA PC - General Discussion#18 FRSTY01/10/2018, 06:32 AM
@Spacecats
Please merge this thread with the other Feedback thread and pin it, so that we can continue posting on it and it's not forgotten about, thank you.
TERA PC - General Discussion#19 ElinLove01/10/2018, 11:34 PM
I see I'm not the only one who shares the opinion of dungeon simulators/Learning Ace dungeons and such. Great to see this idea lives on at least somewhat.

To be fair I kinda agree with almost everything on your list, except 2 things:
1: How an end-game area should have a darker and imposing feel. It was like this with Kaiator and surroundings and... meh. I frankly like the tone on Highwatch and the continent it's on, it's a good balance of nice scenario, good feel and it's neither imposing nor cutesy. Could be said to be a tad bland, this I agree. But it's not exaggerated in any direction.
2: BGs being limited to like 3 main ones and one mini-game and call it a day. I don't see the quantity as a reason for their bad state right now, I understand entirely the point of fragmenting playerbase, and that's kinda the reason why dungeons get rotated and not just all added and left there, but then again if we see how CS went down: 1st point was locking Lv 30+ out of it. Sounded oh-so-great no noobs!!! Until people saw Lv 65s are as stupid as Lv 30s, and queues where just slower now (which in turn makes a snowball: since it's slow, less people bother queuing, making it slower). 2nd point was the decreasing rewards on it and constant exploiting during some time (through gate glitches and such). Ends up on a BG only played on power hours, the only moment it's rewarding enough to justify the bet, and when people all queue due to the former reason. That's also the case for all the other Lv 65 ones, dare I say for the exact same reasons.

The rest I agree completely. Optimization shouldn't even be something we request, it should have been worked out years ago, it's quite vexing it's still a thing, class balance is beyond stupid, to think a developer knows it has what, 5 versions to deal with (NA, EU, RU, KR, JP, or did I miss/add something?), that in fact give it money, and only balances based on ONE, knowing the rest is different, is blatantly re-tar-ded (blame the word filter). Same with ping dependency issues.

It's truly sad that we all share great ideas around here, and post them openly for everyone to see including staff, as far as staff's words are concerned they even pass along our feedback and suggestions, but then, the Korean developer just spits on our face and ignores us like we were trash.
TERA PC - General Discussion#20 Elinu101/11/2018, 02:05 AM
some good suggestions, too bad they will end up in bhs trash bin.
.
Elinu1 wrote: »
some good suggestions, too bad they will end up in bhs trash bin.

1.1k views and only 32 likes and 21 replies, no wonder why good things like this end up in bhs trash bin, most of the people that have seen this thread didn't post or vote it up.

Do you expect publishers or devs will put interest in something when we don't give it the relevance it could get?
@Meshak I understand where you're coming from. Basically you want to experience all higher-end content but with less damage, hp and defense etc. The reward being all the same but significantly lower. That's interesting. Although, you still need to be able to understand the class you're playing among various of things.

@ElinLove Yeah, personally I like more of a darker feel for example Val Kaeli.
There's a lot of issues to why PvP is not where it should be, for sure. I agree CS should of stayed 30+, maybe even giving lower level players a buff to equalize the missing skills. Exploiting should be a lot more stricter when it comes to both PvP and PvE

Thank you for commenting it's good reading others point of view and similar ideas. It's unfortunate what Bluehole is doing, but maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Thank you @ElinUsagi and the others for trying, maybe things will get better.
TERA PC - General Discussion#23 Meshak01/12/2018, 03:02 AM
It is certainly true you cannot really know your class when you only get to run easy content. This is why I think experiencing the same mechanics at a lower setting would be so beneficial. Having the same mechanics available to lower tier players (which will probably be either be newer (or return) or casual players) in an easier dungeon acts as a bridge for these players into end game content.

It would, I hope, ease the frustration of established players and give confidence to less experienced players. If it could be married with some sort of banner at the end showing what your dps was and what your dps should look like, or the average dps of your class with the same gear (doesn't have to be party wide, just a class banner) this would help. For instance something like the damage chart kritika has where you can see what your most used skills are and how much damage they do. Since there is a relationship with essential manna now, there could be some sort of link suggesting for help visit essential manna to look for damage or rotation tips.

I would think this could be beneficial to everyone, although I can see how it could make end game too easy with allowing everyone a way to figure out end game mechanics on "easy mode".

I would think it would be easiest from a development standpoint to lower damage and hp of bosses by a certain % and call them ims or lfg dungeons. This is why it was the first suggestion. However, if there is a desire to not allow an easy mode of end game content, two things spring to mind.

Create an easy dungeon with different bosses who have similar mechanics to end game but lower hp and damage, this will allow people to practice or get familiar with mechanics without doing the actual end game dungeon. It could be a crucible type dungeon with every type of mechanic available.

Or, If putting a new dungeon together is too much, just don't have the ims and lfg dungeons match end game. We sort of rotate end game dungeons anyway. Just have the ims and lfg dungeons be the previous set of dungeons for a month until everyone has figured out the harder 3 and 4*'s then change the ims and lfg dungeons to match the 3 and 4*. This would also make it seem like there is more content in tera by having more dungeons available even if they are easier.

It may even pave the way for bringing back older dungeons people thought were fun in an easier mode so more people can experience them.
I am sorry but PvP does not sell costumes.

Bye :D
HLK76PFWXT wrote: »
I am sorry but PvP does not sell costumes.

So we have to live with it...

It does, but why to pvp to get gold and buy costumes if you could be unlucky and be matched on the loser team most of the times and then get the same gold in one hour of pvp than you will get on a 5 minutes dungeon?

PvPers also likes to get costumes, accesories and weapon skins but like PvEers not everyone can afford to spend money and they need to resort to trade their gold or stuff to get them but a PvPer will need maybe 10 times more the time to get enought gold of stuff to trade for those cash shop items than a PvEer.

There is were we need to find some balance in PvP content and PvE content, so both can be equally worth to try for both kind of players.
TERA needs to take a lot of pointers front Guild Wars 2. You get rewards for map/quest completion. (ex: clear all quests in a certain zone, get special crafting and cosmetic stuff) As well as GW2's skin system where you can apply a certain armor look to any piece you have. I know TERA had this a long time ago before Fashion Coupons, and I must agree with people who said FCs are limiting, as some chest pieces look good while the gloves or bottoms look horrid. Until then, GW2 is my go to mmo. Good community, active events on all maps, and dungeons with multiple paths and diverse mechanics. The only thing TERA has that I wish GW2 had was action combat.
This community needs to come to together for the greater good. I'm sick and tired of constantly being neglected. If the WoW community can come together for legacy severs(and worked), so can we. Someone needs to come up with a petition showing how much we care about this game and want to see major changes(compile a list also). Because this is getting ridiculous with excuses and lack of freedom for Enmasse.
TERA PC - General Discussion#28 FRSTY01/12/2018, 11:42 PM
The thing is Blizzard is an American company, BHS is Korean...
The other feedback thread already got forgotten about @Spacecats didn't bother to merge the threads, and the community itself doesn't care.
TERA PC - General Discussion#29 Meshak01/13/2018, 03:40 AM
Ok, so... what do we do? All it takes Is a little reading to see how many people feel forgotten by the game here, but surely something has to have worked somewhere? Clearly we are passionate about this game and would like to see it succeed.

It seems, at least on this forum, a good number of players feel the game went/is going the wrong direction. There are numerous lists about what could be changed which seem to be ignored.

How about if En Masse told us what they have direct control over and we then gave input specific to said list? Sort of work with what we can rather than complain about what we can do nothing about?

For instance, Can En Masse control dungeon hp and damage %?

For what I know they control, I really think getting rid of double vanguards for specific events is a bad move. It takes a constant stream of mats away and turns it into come and get it if you're logged on when we do it. This seems to me a way to lose active players. Why would I log on now when I know an event is coming?

This may not go deep enough to "fix" things, but maybe it gets the dialogue going in the right direction and then who knows? The idea is not to let BHS off the hook, but to start making some immediate meaningful improvements.

I will say by dialoguing with En Masse about changes, it should not be us demanding and En Masse giving in to the "I want double and triple this and that". It should be dialogue about the scope of En Masse authority and how it is Strategically and Tactically administered to engage and hopefully grow the player base.

But, seriously, any ideas? I'll help with whatever I can.
Meshak wrote: »
How about if En Masse told us what they have direct control over and we then gave input specific to said list? Sort of work with what we can rather than complain about what we can do nothing about?

I can tell you what I know, at least (though this is just my personal opinion based on what I've observed over the years and the tidbits they've said on the forum and to player council).

(Begin long post...)

Basically, all the decisions about the game itself, its balance, and patch contents belong to BHS and are their responsibility. EME's responsibility is to, within certain parameters, develop events that encourage people to play the game. They can also develop and control, within certain parameters, certain reward systems and structures, along with the way they price and sell things on the cash shop.

I emphasize "within certain parameters" because basically BHS is aware of everything they're doing, and has veto power if they really don't like something. So they couldn't, for example, just decide to arbitrarily take everything out of lootboxes and put them on for direct sale unless BHS signed off on it, because it affects both of their revenue streams. Likewise, for example, they were forbidden from releasing a system they developed that would have provided everyone a fair way to earn all the dragon mounts in-game, as BHS exercised their veto power and blocked it (causing a huge mess at the time).

Technically speaking, by editing server files they could make more fundamental changes to things like drop tables and enemy parameters (and likely skill balance, I'm guessing). However, any time they did something like this, it would get overwritten by BHS when the next patch comes out, and patches (basically) come out monthly now. So unless they want to be constantly redoing their changes and "fighting BHS" every month, it's in their best interest to have these sorts of changes made by BHS and "flow down" to them from the upstream patch. In addition, it's BHS's responsibility to control and manage the flow of progression in the game, and they're the only ones with the full picture of what they have in mind for future patches.

(It's important to note that most of the major/experimental changes Gameforge did recently were on their test server, which they already know is going to permanently disappear before the next patch. So this allows them to play with all sorts of things that they "technically can" do, but it would be counterproductive to do on the regular servers.)

The point about "fighting BHS" is also important because EME is a sister company to BHS (same owners/investors). They won't and can't do anything overt like "we don't believe in your vision for the game, BHS, and we're going to do our own thing." They must always play the political game with BHS and "encourage" them to make changes (providing evidence/backup for their case), while doing what they are allowed to do within the box they can play in. In short, if BHS is the head office, EME is the local sales/distribution office. They mostly get decisions handed down from corporate, but can do some things in the local market that they believe will be more effective -- so long as it doesn't conflict with what corporate wants.

Further, because BHS and EME are sister companies, their shared owners/investors aren't going to be willing to hire a whole bunch of people just to do the same things BHS is already paying people to do for the game globally. For example, BHS has people responsible for doing class balance, and that's their job. They're not going to let EME pay someone to do custom class balance for our region, and so pay two different people to do the same job. So there's a difference between localization/local market customization and breaking away from the core game itself. The latter I expect EME will never do. (Some of the things people don't like about the direction the game has gone fall into that category, and would be basically impossible for EME to change unless there's a substantial change in vision and leadership at BHS.)

Of course they deliver feedback to BHS about players' opinions on lots of things, because BHS' TERA revenue is also directly impacted if players in any region are unhappy and stop playing. I also know EME staff have their personal own opinions of what they'd ideally want to do about the game if it were up to them. But again, because of the politics, it's exceedingly rare to see them ever say anything that outright goes against what BHS wants, since that isn't their place. I can probably count on my hands the amount of times they've done that over the years, and even then it's guarded (but that's also what makes it stand out).


So with all this said... the things I try to focus on when I can discuss with any EME staff:

1) Issues that specifically relate to our localization of the game and work they've done "in-house", like reward merchants, events, and the cash shop
2) Outright bugs, exploits, and things so wrong that they will have a strong case to either act directly or argue for urgent action by BHS (whether BHS chooses to act or not)
3) The general root or root cause of overall dissatisfaction in the hopes that the concern is taken forward and has an impact on future long-term direction.

I try to keep in mind that everything has to go many layers up the authority chain. Spacecats has to report game feedback to Seandynamite, who may have to report to Denommenator (and in some cases may have to go all the way to Kimmander), and things for BHS have to first go from there to our region's BHS rep, who may then have to go up from there to their boss, and the idea may end up in committee and ultimately to the TERA producer who would assign to the developers responsible. Never mind the fact that there are least 5 other markets that also get their own chance to similarly try to elevate feedback. So when you're so many layers removed from the actual people doing the work, it's like a game of telephone tag. The message better be damn clear or it'll never make it through in one piece. Any one person in the whole chain who doesn't understand the problem or doesn't agree or doesn't believe in the proposed remedy (or has someone else telling them the opposite), and the whole thing dies on the vine.

Anyway, that's gotten really long and maybe rambling, but hopefully that helps someone get a better picture of (how I see) this structure, and what I think you're against in terms of giving feedback.


One last thing...
Meshak wrote: »
For what I know they control, I really think getting rid of double vanguards for specific events is a bad move. It takes a constant stream of mats away and turns it into come and get it if you're logged on when we do it. This seems to me a way to lose active players. Why would I log on now when I know an event is coming?

My thought on this is that, if they're going to switch to this model, they need to totally change the way they do events, and not make it an occasional weekend thing how it is now. Instead, it should be like the battleground jackpot calendar where every day there's some event going on. Like, today is Double Item XP day, tomorrow is Double Vanguard day, the next day is Double Leveling XP Day, Bonus Drops, 25% more gold in Vanguard, or whatever. That way there's a large variety of different events and something is happening all the time.

I agree with you that they can't just take that away and then be like the way it is now where once every few weekends there's an event.
TERA PC - General Discussion#31 papy10k01/13/2018, 10:29 AM
so EME and BHS are the same, I see why the game is boring. We are playing what Koreans like, endless grinding.
NA loves PVP.
TERA PC - General Discussion#32 ElinLove01/13/2018, 04:30 PM
Well, this is then a nice big set of people being stubborn to invest properly into the game.
The whole deal about how different the populations of each game localizations are, and how they obviously refuse to just accept this fact and that you should make changes to work worldwide, restricting themselves contractually to just BHS ruling and all obey, sounds to me like some very stupid financial decision.
Players themselves can see much more than the developers (???) and how the health of the community is not alright, they should be seeing the numbers financially. It just can't be that they're seeing it work, this makes me wonder heavily if they're just keeping the stubborn mindset betting it will work out later and cost cutting is a good idea or if they really cannot afford it anymore and are on a worse situation than expected.

I can totally understand how the game goes through a big chain of command and that BHS just sits at the ultimate top, but then, it just looks like they're being very stupid and stubborn to me.
papy10k wrote: »
so EME and BHS are the same, I see why the game is boring. We are playing what Koreans like, endless grinding.
NA loves PVP.

I think that sums up the situation nicely. Many of the things that would grow and keep a large population in NA won't be implemented because of cultural differences. Feedback from the forums and other successful MMO's show what a western audience expects.

For MMO's, age doesn't effect the game as much as other genre's. You could still see a rise in population if BHS made meaningful improvements to the game.
FRSTY wrote: »
The thing is Blizzard is an American company, BHS is Korean...
Yes, that is true and of course the language barrier isn't making things much better also.
Meshak wrote: »
Ok, so... what do we do? All it takes Is a little reading to see how many people feel forgotten by the game here, but surely something has to have worked somewhere? Clearly we are passionate about this game and would like to see it succeed.

It seems, at least on this forum, a good number of players feel the game went/is going the wrong direction. There are numerous lists about what could be changed which seem to be ignored.

How about if En Masse told us what they have direct control over and we then gave input specific to said list? Sort of work with what we can rather than complain about what we can do nothing about?

Well @counterpoint pretty much said everything on the subject.

Personally, coming up with some kind of petition showing that the community does care and want to see major improvements regarding TERA. The advantages of doing so will bring in more players and money for Bluehole and En masse.
ElinLove wrote: »
Well, this is then a nice big set of people being stubborn to invest properly into the game.
The whole deal about how different the populations of each game localizations are, and how they obviously refuse to just accept this fact and that you should make changes to work worldwide, restricting themselves contractually to just BHS ruling and all obey, sounds to me like some very stupid financial decision.

I'm really starting to think that might be the problem. They need to fully understand that the direction of this game is hurting the player base on a worldwide scale.
Ammutseba wrote: »
For MMO's, age doesn't effect the game as much as other genre's. You could still see a rise in population if BHS made meaningful improvements to the game.

I completely agree, and the fact that after all these years on the market, there isn't many MMO's like TERA. If they just capitalize on that, there's no telling how dominant TERA would be right now.

ElinLove wrote: »
Well, this is then a nice big set of people being stubborn to invest properly into the game.
The whole deal about how different the populations of each game localizations are, and how they obviously refuse to just accept this fact and that you should make changes to work worldwide, restricting themselves contractually to just BHS ruling and all obey, sounds to me like some very stupid financial decision.
Players themselves can see much more than the developers (???) and how the health of the community is not alright, they should be seeing the numbers financially. It just can't be that they're seeing it work, this makes me wonder heavily if they're just keeping the stubborn mindset betting it will work out later and cost cutting is a good idea or if they really cannot afford it anymore and are on a worse situation than expected.

I can totally understand how the game goes through a big chain of command and that BHS just sits at the ultimate top, but then, it just looks like they're being very stupid and stubborn to me.

Well, FWIW, they made a strategic investment that you probably don't agree with. They decided to invest in the Western market through an expansion into consoles. You might say "what a waste! they could have just invested all that money into customizing and improving the PC game for us!" but my guess is that the board wouldn't see it that way. Investing in console is a way of building their in-house capacity both at BHS (programming/optimizing for consoles) and also at EME (Sony/MS certification, console game support, etc.). It's also possible that any improvements or optimizations they make for console could make their way back to the PC build. And, if console actually does work and find an audience, then that's a broader playerbase driving improvements to the baseline TERA for all regions and platforms. (If console is successful, that'll be even more voices at the table in favor of changes that match our market preferences.)

So basically, they took a more shrewd approach to the problem. Keep in mind that when the game first launched, they did customize it more extensively for various markets, and they went through a conscious process to try to unify them as much as possible in the last few years (as part of the process of speeding up the release cadence). So they've been down that road already; an "if you build it, they will come" spiel probably won't work on them. But it's not like they're outright not investing. They basically said "we're willing to invest, but into something that will help us grow as a company over the long term." My guess is that it's probably because, for their next MMO game, they are going to want it on consoles as well, and it's part of their long-term corporate diversification strategy. (It also means that, going forward, EME will be able to sell their services to other companies as a console publisher.)

I realize my saying all this doesn't solve our problem as TERA PC players dealing with there and now. But I strongly suspect this is why they're doing what they're doing.
TERA PC - General Discussion#36 Meshak01/14/2018, 05:17 AM
Whether they can effect mob stats or damage or not, they can certainly impact the game and player satisfaction. Crafting mats and engaging the player base.

They can sort of make up for lack of content with constant events, weekly world boss events with small quests attached with meaningful reward for all gear levels. If they're able to do this, create their own events, I think they can do more than we give them credit for.

Also, look at past events and double vanguards. This alone tells me if done well they have the in house ability to make the game better. In the past an event could net you the mats you needed to do a lot of upgrading. So I don't think they're as hamstrung as we think. Some of the events were pretty op with mats weren't they? Wouldn't a lot of people would say they want to benefit from those events, but they're bad for the game and game economy.

If they did events/rewards and mat distribution better, it would have a positive impact.

Engaging the player base. A weekly video is nice, but look how many people are frustrated with the number and type of posts from eme. Respond and follow up.

I still think knowing what each role is responsible for and what exactly eme can and cant do would be helpful. I don't want to just give them a pass because we assume there's nothing they can do.


Meshak wrote: »
If they did events/rewards and mat distribution better, it would have a positive impact.

You have to remember that they made a conscious and deliberate decision with this gear cycle that they would try to interfere with mat distribution as little as possible. This was in direct response to the previous gear cycles where they ran events that influenced gear progression way too much (at least in their view, and as also expressed by some people on the forum). So right now they are being very conservative with mats for that reason.

I think they will start to loosen up over time (like they added diamonds to PvP jackpots this month), but they are being very cautious and purposefully letting BHS's system play out. So this isn't a question of "are you able to do something" it's "are you willing to do something". They're basically trying on purpose to make it so that any feedback people have about gear and mats is 100% BHS's fault this round.
TERA PC - General Discussion#38 ElinLove01/14/2018, 04:44 PM
ElinLove wrote: »
Well, this is then a nice big set of people being stubborn to invest properly into the game.
The whole deal about how different the populations of each game localizations are, and how they obviously refuse to just accept this fact and that you should make changes to work worldwide, restricting themselves contractually to just BHS ruling and all obey, sounds to me like some very stupid financial decision.
Players themselves can see much more than the developers (???) and how the health of the community is not alright, they should be seeing the numbers financially. It just can't be that they're seeing it work, this makes me wonder heavily if they're just keeping the stubborn mindset betting it will work out later and cost cutting is a good idea or if they really cannot afford it anymore and are on a worse situation than expected.

I can totally understand how the game goes through a big chain of command and that BHS just sits at the ultimate top, but then, it just looks like they're being very stupid and stubborn to me.

Well, FWIW, they made a strategic investment that you probably don't agree with. They decided to invest in the Western market through an expansion into consoles. You might say "what a waste! they could have just invested all that money into customizing and improving the PC game for us!" but my guess is that the board wouldn't see it that way. Investing in console is a way of building their in-house capacity both at BHS (programming/optimizing for consoles) and also at EME (Sony/MS certification, console game support, etc.). It's also possible that any improvements or optimizations they make for console could make their way back to the PC build. And, if console actually does work and find an audience, then that's a broader playerbase driving improvements to the baseline TERA for all regions and platforms. (If console is successful, that'll be even more voices at the table in favor of changes that match our market preferences.)

So basically, they took a more shrewd approach to the problem. Keep in mind that when the game first launched, they did customize it more extensively for various markets, and they went through a conscious process to try to unify them as much as possible in the last few years (as part of the process of speeding up the release cadence). So they've been down that road already; an "if you build it, they will come" spiel probably won't work on them. But it's not like they're outright not investing. They basically said "we're willing to invest, but into something that will help us grow as a company over the long term." My guess is that it's probably because, for their next MMO game, they are going to want it on consoles as well, and it's part of their long-term corporate diversification strategy. (It also means that, going forward, EME will be able to sell their services to other companies as a console publisher.)

I realize my saying all this doesn't solve our problem as TERA PC players dealing with the here and now. But I strongly suspect this is why they're doing what they're doing.

Actually, I do not disagree with their decision to bring it to consoles at all. In fact I commend them for going that route. What I still cannot give in, is how they seem to really not want to leave the balancing decisions for each region, instead forcing their own method on the base build and deal with it, sucks for ya all to not have talents.
The decision to program to console, I can imagine it a lot the way you do: kinda like a training, instead of a new game from scratch, they learn the differences in hardware and how to actually deal with so much cores (as they should have done to begin with on PUBG or so I've heard) by porting it to a hardware with it's limitations. The long term makes sense indeed, and as we've both discussed since like last year's beginning (or was it even before) when we've heard of the console port, it can make it's necessary changes into our build too. Also, as you say, a broader audience IS beneficial to us too as there's more voices to say it out loud.
I just hope that console port IS successful and also brings some more people into PC too, and then they kinda wake up to the whole area differences, and I can understand how they, BHS themselves wouldn't do the balancing and PVE/PVP/Grind balancing too 3~5x to account for all the different areas.
Still, I believe this would be a valid investment once they're offloaded from the whole console deal (they'll always have work to do on it, but not nearly as much after it's done of course).
I kept reading what was said there and its interesting in a way to see that EME does not have enough freedom to personalize? Tera PC/NA and make it more appealing for the player base that has different views than KR? .. but the game is in such a bad state right now on NA that i do not even see what is there to lose anymore? The hundreds of players that barely login these days and the fact that less and less players are online with every week? So why not take a leap of faith and actually stop doing half assed events that sometimes give they impression that they are thoroughly thought to be as less rewarding as possible like for example this TRNM event where we struggle to get items that are two years old like the smart dyads and other regions are giving them in a much easier fasion? And why not update the shops to give more or less rewarding but at least not frustrating rewards for both PvP and PvE?

How hard is to make Tera NA to be a game that motivates players to want to play? Unless the more rewards they gain in game then the less is the chance to have them spend real money? I am confused because if that is the case then why not start by making Elite more appealing for both PvP and PvE players to encourage players to want to spend their 15$ on elite membership? Then move forwards and tweak the cash shop a bit for the same PvP and PvE players? I might be wrong but i am pretty sure that players would be happy to spend as long as they would have active battlegrounds/dungeons.

There is also the issue that Tera has great combat mechanics and many players including myself would rather play Tera instead of a game like FFXIV where you stand in the same place for a lot of time and push buttons in a certain order over and over again for a rotation.. But again if Tera has NO PVP and the PVE is barely alive then the point of having a great combat system instantly disappears since that combat system cannot be put to use so the other games might be tab target or any other boring thing but at the very least they have PvP and PvE.

p.s. bless online is also coming soon this year...
TERA PC - General Discussion#40 Gaeowyn01/15/2018, 03:48 AM
To be honest i understand why pc gamers are hating on consoles so much slowly but surely gaming is dying out on pc and growing bigger and bigger on console. It's not a bad thing just a change. I mean i for one have been a hard core pc fan boy for years but now that pc is losing their luster from consoles catching up to them it just seems kinda well pointless. So your misplace aggression is understood but pc will stop producing games sooner or later and the icd 11 coming out in may definately wont be doing it any favors. But if you need proof that gaming is dying out on pc. What is the last NON internet base game you bought in the last year? last 5 years? last 10 years? hate to say it but pc day in the sun is over sadly.
Gaeowyn wrote: »
To be honest i understand why pc gamers are hating on consoles so much slowly but surely gaming is dying out on pc and growing bigger and bigger on console. It's not a bad thing just a change. I mean i for one have been a hard core pc fan boy for years but now that pc is losing their luster from consoles catching up to them it just seems kinda well pointless. So your misplace aggression is understood but pc will stop producing games sooner or later and the icd 11 coming out in may definately wont be doing it any favors. But if you need proof that gaming is dying out on pc. What is the last NON internet base game you bought in the last year? last 5 years? last 10 years? hate to say it but pc day in the sun is over sadly.


It's a cycle, and maybe everything is shifting to consoles for now, but it will shift back later, or on to whatever we are using by then. Maybe tablets will have become so smart they can play games like this.

My only beef with consoles is the stupid companies that won't let them play on the same servers as us. If we could all play together, and you could play your character on the computer AND your console....but no. We have one company that refuses to let its customers get exposed to gen chat unfiltered and we all have to play separately. (#bitter)

It feels like we're being thrown away while a new class of players are being courted right in front of us.

Hopefully it will turn out better than that.
TERA PC - General Discussion#42 Meshak01/15/2018, 05:07 AM
@counterpoint I hear you, understand what you say and why you say it. But, it also just sounds like give them a pass. Which is why we are here. I understand your explaining things for us isn't the same thing as you defending them, but we're in this post to see what we can do to change things.

You have such a great understanding of why things are done, so what do we do about it? Obviously posting doesn't work. What sort of petition should we do, who should we address it to?
TERA PC - General Discussion#43 kubitoid01/15/2018, 05:48 AM
Gaeowyn wrote: »
What is the last NON internet base game you bought in the last year?
titan quest - ragnarok
grim dawn - ashes of malmouth
hellblade - senua's sacrifice
divinity original sin 2

on GOG
Meshak wrote: »
so what do we do about it? Obviously posting doesn't work. What sort of petition should we do, who should we address it to?
I would suggest first to have a realistic goal. We're not in control of the chessboard; we're just a single pawn at the start line. For now all we can do is move forward.

What I mean is: you're not going to topple BHS leadership or cause them to somehow wake from some stupor and be like "oh [filtered], we should really listen to what NA players want and give in." Giving them a huge list of major changes to the game's strategic direction is not an easy sell. They also had their reasons for changing things over the years, so if you propose "go back to how things were," it's a significant uphill battle. Besides, we're just one market of many, and BHS does not need us to survive; they can just close TERA NA and be like "we had a good run," and keep focusing on PUBG, A:IR, Console TERA, and TERA PC in the regions where what they want to do still works. EME is diversifying into other projects and can probably keep finding work, too.

Does all that mean we need to give up? No, of course not. I don't think either EME or BHS actually want TERA to die in NA either, as that helps no one. But I wouldn't spend time now focusing on how I'm going to checkmate the king.

I already said here what I choose to focus on. They're issues I can clearly articulate, are within EME's scope to address, and have a clear benefit to the players. Things I can explain in an elevator pitch. I hope that, in bringing constructive, achievable suggestions that they can "buy into," and seeing positive results, it'll lead to more trust and the next win. It's a frustrating, slow process that tries my patience... but it's the only way I see of keeping this pawn in the game.

Of course, you don't have to believe me. Maybe I'm misguided or wrong. I personally don't see how any amount of petitions or angry complaints to anyone are going to accomplish much, particularly if what you want is vague, nebulous, not clearly actionable, and likely at odds with their experiences, metrics, and global priorities. But I do know that even pawns can become queens, so nothing is impossible.
@counterpoint I am not trying to sound pesimistic but do you know what happened with Tera on China?

It failed in the same year K-Tera had dificulties to keep going.

Nexon got the rights to publish K-Tera shortly after China failed and their way to do things have kept alive the game there. Maybe that's one of the reasons BHS has narrowed their vision of how NA should be managed.

2016 was a really hard year for Tera world wide and Nexon cash shop marketing was what brought a second air to the game.

Hard to strive from that path once you have put a feet on that ground.
ElinUsagi wrote: »
Nexon got the rights to publish K-Tera shortly after China failed and their way to do things have kept alive the game there. Maybe that's one of the reasons BHS has narrowed their vision of how NA should be managed.

Even if that's the case, that doesn't mean nothing can be done. Or rather... if people really think nothing can be done, then there's no point in discussing anything in the first place. That's what I mean by achievable goals. I think there are still things that can be done to help make the game better, even if you can't fix everything or drastically change the whole game's course all at once.
TERA PC - General Discussion#47 Meshak01/16/2018, 03:04 AM
I'm not sure I like the analogy of us being a pawn when we're the paying customers. If you're suggesting the only thing we can do is have one person talk to eme when they get the chance and hope for change I would hope there are more options for interaction.

Not that we don't appreciate you talking to them, especially if it is the only method of communication as its incredibly important, and kudos to you for doing so, it I'm sure its trying at best. Hopefully its rewarding at times as well. As a player council member are there regular meetings where you get to voice concerns or something?

Again, what if eme actually responded to one of the lists of good ideas with something other than "good idea, we're forwarding it"? How about a follow up to the message they forwarded. Whether its good news or bad news. Don't they have community managers? What exactly is the scope of the community manager?

I think there have been several direct questions eme could answer within this thread and certainly some actionable ideas.
Meshak wrote: »
I'm not sure I like the analogy of us being a pawn when we're the paying customers.
The analogy was about the scale of our voice/power. Even as a paying customer, the scale of our influence is limited because of the business structure at play (centrally managed by the development team to serve all global markets, of which we're only one, and not necessarily the most important one). That's what I've been trying to explain.

Meshak wrote: »
If you're suggesting the only thing we can do is have one person talk to eme when they get the chance and hope for change I would hope there are more options for interaction.
No, that wasn't what I was suggesting. I was just trying to explain the issues I try to focus on, my reasons for choosing those particular types of issues, and why I take this approach. But everyone gives feedback in their own way.

Meshak wrote: »
How about a follow up to the message they forwarded. Whether its good news or bad news.
I don't even know if EME gets that kind of specific follow-up until changes are further down the development timeline. But even if they did... I'm not sure it'll really go better if they start giving people the "bad news." I mean, I think it'd still be the right thing to do... but I also worry that it'd make people even more upset for being ignored/denied.


Basically, people in our market are not used to being treated as a "secondary market." All the major tech companies and many of the major gaming companies are here, and they all spend a lot of their focus on making products people here like. They also tend to be more directly interactive with people here to get their feedback and openly iterative. BHS's development culture really isn't like that, from what we've seen over the years.

Anyway, I really wish that we could get a representative of the BHS development team to take and directly respond to questions from our market. I've made that suggestion before too.
TERA PC - General Discussion#49 Meshak01/17/2018, 03:03 AM
Aaand this thread has stopped being productive. How typical and how frustrating.

@counterpoint I don't know if its what you mean to do or set out to do, but your answers are just a lot of "there's nothing we can do". You've turned this away from being about what we want to do and what we can do to positively change the game and made it into a this is why things are they way they are thread. It destroys any positive momentum. Just look a the thread before you joined then after. I don't know if that's a player council members real job or what. But you're here and no one from eme is regardless of specific questions asked or actionable feedback given.

Brother, if you really want this game to change you should take a long look at how you respond to people in these forums. Why would eme respond to this (or any) thread when they have you to come in and explain everything away for them?

This is not an attack, I really don't think this is your intent, but I do think you've been doing this so long its second nature. You have insights not many have, this could be used for change rather than used to pacify. Stop explaining everything away and start giving ideas for what we as a player base CAN do not why we cant do things. You have all the insight as to why things are they way they are, so what can we do?

If you feel something needs to be explained, great, honestly, thanks for the insight, but move on to what can be done about it. What we need is what action we can take, not the explanation of why we can't take action.

If the petition to eme wont work, how about how about a petition to players to go a month with no emp buys, nothing from their shop bought for a month? All elite shut off for a month and nothing from their shop for a month?

Doesn't it seem silly to go this route? Doesn't it seem like there should be some other way to get eme to listen or to at least engage in *meaningful* conversation? We have to hurt the game we want to change in order to get some sort of voice?

As a submission: We DO have a representative for bhs development in our market, and they have a community manager. its eme... and they have a specific job called... "community manager".

If they have a specific job called community manager, why is there a player council? If there is a player council why aren't there specific meetings with the members?

Is it because its a façade, meant to placate and pacify? As long as we the paying pawns keep falling for it and explaining things away instead of demanding real change, nothing will change.

Awesome game, great animations, great combat, wonderful character detail and costumes but it only lasts 2-3 months then your done. It could *easily* be changed and there are tons of incredible suggestions for how to do so. But, we have no idea if any of them are being listened to because eme (our representative to bhs) is silent and nothing changes.

Its really, too bad.
@Meshak Most player councils from games are only a facade, you should already figure out that.

That means they will give feedback but if that is not something the game company likes then it will be ignored, or as counterpoint stated, it will be lost between the diferent people that it needs aproval.

What I don't really understand is why publishers can't ask devs for exclusive stuff for their regions anymore?

It is clear that Korea likes things diferent than EU and NA. There should not be locks for publishers to make changes on rewards for the diferent content we have. Publishers should even have tools to boost the content in the game to make it more apealing for their market.

Being tied to walk a single road is what I think has been the main mistake from BHS, they continue working to please Korean and Japanese markets and they try to impose that on other regions killing the flexibility a company should get when trying to compete in a diferent region.

Something is quite not right if every publisher can't have something exclusive for his region, when you look at other markets and you see that Korean server has more exclusive things than the other regions then you can think that other regions are not important for them, because "why should I apeal the NA market and maybe fail in sales when I only need to make cash shop items to apeal to my fatter cash cows?" is what you can conclude BHS is thinking when doing something new for Tera.

Korea has exclusive costumes, Korea has talent system (exclusive for them) and Korea is always the first region to get updates. I know the game is korean but at this point after 6 years there is not a good reason to invest in a world wide date to release their content. Common, they don't even fix bugs they detected on the korean servers 2-3 months before that content arrive our servers then there is not real reason to delay content to other regions.

At this point I think BHS does not care if what happened to Chinesse servers will repeat to other regions while they can make happy to Koreans and Japanese players.

If BHS really doesn't care then "stop buying cash shop items" will only result on NA servers to close and EME to move on their other games.

What we can do?

Continue giving feedback.

Will that work?

I doubt it but nothing is lost to share a piece of our mind.
Meshak wrote: »
It destroys any positive momentum. Just look a the thread before you joined then after. I don't know if that's a player council members real job or what.

I spent hours composing the explanations in this thread because that's what I can contribute to this fight: perspective on the bigger picture. I'm using my experience to tell you what you're up against. Most of the stuff I'm explaining, I doubt EME will ever share because it's too "internal politics" for them to say outright unless you read between the lines. That's why I'm sharing it instead. That's what I can do for you. Do you think I haven't tried everything I can think of to influence the game? Trust me, I have. I'm not trying to pacify anyone, or "destroy positive momentum." Rather, I'm trying to show you the lay of the land so you can achieve positive momentum by fighting smarter.

The reason I'm doing this is because I've been on this forum for years and I've seen plenty of threads like this fail for the very same reasons: full of general laments on the game's direction/vision, not having achievable goals, not having sufficient justification, not understanding EME's scope of responsibility, not considering the legitimate factors that led to changes being made, not being "salable" in an elevator pitch, etc. etc. And people spin themselves in circles getting more and more angry and depressed that EME doesn't care until they either quit the game and become bitter forum trolls, or just give up trying to do anything. And contrary to insinuations from you and others, that is not what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm trying to save you the "journey of despair" by giving you the conclusions from the end so you can pick a better strategy from the start.

I have my own strategy, and I already shared what it was. You need to develop your own strategy. I think the information I shared can help you develop your strategy. Use it, or don't; it's up to you.
I love the idea of updating the preview videos -- it should be relevant to the current meta and skill rotation, not just spamming skills by some GM who doesn't know how to play the class
The whole point of this was to continue beating the dead horse beyond it’s grave and show/spark awareness to helping some the major problems. No amount of dungeon and vanguard rewarding tweaking is going to help. When the game is broken to it’s core. When the playerbase went from exceeding beyond 20,000+ to 1100+ in just 3 years, yeah something isn’t right. This being an older game has nothing to do with it. TERA is hurting and needs some tender loving care. Unfortunately, Bluehole has TERA on the back burner, concentrating on their new MMO.
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